Cece, Ed and I have been in contact and that's why I thought of sending this. English paternal ancestry is very possible. There was a very sizeable British community in Madeira since the late 1600's and on until WWII. Many families, including mine, had links to these families. Some families have remained, i.e. Blandy, Leacock, Phelps, Cook, etc. As you can imagine, these families were merchants and wealthy. Well, at least they kept servants. Many young women, from the countryside, served in their house. You can imagine what happened after... Also during the early 1800's British detachments were headquartered in the island. They pretty well governed Madeira for a decade. Soldiers are soldiers, with all due respect. I have mentioned at some time that an English woman writing in the mid-1800 mentioned that in Santo da Serra and Camacha there were Scottish detachments posted there, and that she attributed the many blonde, red-haired people to that fact. Finally, Funchal was a port city with many sailors. I don't know but the 19th century in Madeira was very tough. A lot of poverty and hunger and total misery. Men left in droves for Demerara, Brazil, America and so on. Women stayed behind in total poverty. Some men never bothered to return or died. It was a tough time to be a woman. It actually only got better after 1975. I believe the social fabric fell apart, but if you made a mistake that lasted a whole lifetime. You may have noticed how protective our grandparents were of their daughters. This in part explains why. That is not pretty but that is our history. Have a nice day. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Cece Camara Sent: February 19, 2007 9:49 AM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara Jose, Yes, I've seen it many times over...and it frustrates me every time I see it! In our research we have found MANY more orphans named Camara than those that are given/taken the name ancestrally. (not sure that is a word...LOL) As you probably know, Ed's paternal Camara descendancy is from an orphan given the name Camara... our great grandfather Egidio da Camara. There were many other orphans who were given the name (oops..."chose the name" per Luis). And as you also may know by reading the posts here, Ed IS also maternally descended from Zarco. Also, you might be aware, that Ed's yDNA is part of your Madeira DNA page. We find it rather amusing that the only close matches he's had on any of his yDNA have been to people of British/English descent...so it appears to us, that somewhere along the way this orphan had a paternal English ancestor. Care to comment? Cece -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Fernandes, Jose Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:55 AM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara Ed and Cecce, You might have seen this already. Rufina posted this on the saudades site. I thought it might be of interest to you. José SURNAME CÂMARA - FIVE CENTURIES OLD - LEGACY OF A SAILOR www.geocities.com/Heartland/1074/sailor.htm <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/1074/sailor.htm> The surname Câmara is now 527 years old. The first person entitled to use this family name was JOÃO GONÇALVES ZARCO, a Portuguese sailor who used to fight the moors alongside Africa's coast on service to His Majesty, the King of Portugal. In one of those battles, his ship went astray, arriving by chance in a group of islands located about 400 miles away from Morocco's coast. The largest island was covered by a luxuriant vegetation so Zarco named it Ilha da Madeira (Wood Island). On the shore of that island, he and his crew saw a number of sea lions (in ancient Portuguese "sea wolves") hidden in a cave and they called that place "Câmara de Lobos" (Cave of Wolves). On his return to Portugal, Zarco reported his discovery to His Majesty. The King then authorized Zarco and his fellows, Tristão Vaz and Bartholomeu Perestrello, to start colonization of these islands. Each of them was in charge of a "Capitania": Zarco in Funchal, Tristão in Machico, and Perestrello in Porto Santo. Due to the efficiency of those men, in a few decades s riches could be transferred to the Kingdom of Portugal. King Dom Afonso rewarded those men with noble titles. On the fourth of July of 1460, His Majesty Dom Afonso of Portugal issued a Royal Decree granting João Gonçalves Zarco the title of Knight and a Coat of Arms and changed his name to JOÃO GONÇALVES DA CÂMARA DE LOBOS. In spite of the Royal Decree, the family name "Gonçalves da Câmara de Lobos" did not last as such. Zarco's sons and daughters used either "Gonçalves da Câmara" or "Rodrigues da Câmara", being "Rodrigues" Zarco's wife's family name. In the generations that followed, the surname "Câmara" has been combined with many other family names, inaugurating new families, such as "Bittencourt da Câmara", "Cabral da Câmara", "Leme da Câmara", "Monis da Câmara", etc. The original surname "Gonçalves da Câmara" can still be found among descendants of the first Captain of Madeira Island. The surname "Câmara" made its way through the centuries to reach me on the 20th Century. There were moments when this family name was almost left aside. For instance, an ancestor of mine, a granddaughter of Zarco, CONSTANÇA RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, married Diogo Cabral. Their two daughters instead of taking their father's surname, preferred their mother's, "Câmara". They were Isabel and PHILIPPA DA CÂMARA. Isabel became a nun, so Philippa was the only one supposed to carry the family name ahead. Philippa da Câmara and her husband, Francisco Monis, had eight children. Six of them took their grandfather's family name "Cabral". The other two maintained the surname "Câmara", one combining it with "Monis" and my ancestor JOÃO RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA kept his mother's full family name. For the next two generations, surname "Câmara" was safe. But danger was close when, on the 2nd of December of 1606, MARIA MONIS DA CÂMARA, grand-daughter of João Rodrigues da Câmara, got married to Pero Berenguer de Leminhana, who was of Spanish origin. They had five sons and each of them adopted a different family name, combining their ancestors' surnames: João Berenguer de Andrada Pedro Berenguer de Leminhana Manoel d'Andrada de Leminhana Bartholomeu de Melo Berenguer and my ancestor FRANCISCO MONIS DA CÂMARA. Francisco's son, MANOEL MONIS DA CÂMARA, born in September, 1671, was responsible for taking the surname "Câmara" to Brazil. In approximately 1710, he left Madeira Island and headed for the New World. At that time, the search for gold was the main activity of Brazilian population. Majority of gold mines were located in Minas Gerais Province of Brazil, where Manoel Monis da Câmara and his cousin Manoel Bittencourt da Câmara settled. The latter found a gold mine and became one of the richest men of that time. However my ancestor, Manoel Monis da Câmara, was not that lucky. But it seems that he had some kind of assistance from his rich cousin so that he was able to buy a farm. He became a farmer and raised his children: Manoel, Anna, Rosa and Josepha. All of them which had the surname "Monis da Câmara". JOSEPHA MONIS DA CÂMARA got married to maderian Manoel Gomes Rodrigues in 1737. They had eleven children. The surname "Câmara" then faced its almost fatal crisis. Only one of Josepha's sons, Philippe, took surname "Câmara". He would sign a long and pompous family name: "Gomes Rodrigues da Câmara". Philippe Gomes Rodrigues da Câmara, a farmer and gold miner, died in August, 1818, leaving six sons and two daughters. Again, the surname "Câmara" was in danger. Only one of his sons, my ancestor JOSÉ GOMES RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, kept the family's full name which has been passed on to his descendants reaching the 20th Century. My grandfather ILLIDIO GOMES RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, who was born on the 30th of October of 1879 and died on the 20th of October of 1950, was the last one to bear such a long family name. My father, myself and my brothers still keep "Rodrigues Câmara". However my father's grandchildren only were give the surname "Câmara". It took me many years of genealogical research to align all links from me to the first Câmara, João Gonçalves Zarco, the sailor. What was supposed to be my inheritance from him after 500 years? If heritage was mathematical, after 17 generations, only 1/66124th of his characteristics could be detected on me. On the other hand, 1 /3rd of his original family name, "Gonçalves da CÂMARA de Lobos, is still found in my own family name... I am proud of this legacy. __._,_.___ José Fernandes Administrator Race Relations/Community and Cultural Services York Region District School Board Phone: 905 737 4353, Ext. 107 Phone: 416 969 7170, Ext 2409/107 jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message