My only "paes incognitos," occured fairly early in my research. My maternal great-grandfather Antonio da Camara, is listed as being "filho do paes incognitos," on his marriage record ( 8 Feb 1873 Calheta, Madeira to Antonia de Freitas). The second notation was on his daughter's birth record (my maternal grandmother Julia)... "neta paternal da paes incognitos." I keep hoping that one day a male relative of this line will show up, so that we can have his YDNA tested, sheding some light on his ancestral roots. Antonia de Freitas is my mtDNA ancestor... Haplogroup H1 with mutations in HVR1 16172C - 16519C = HVR2 00074G - 00263G and 00315,1C. Facts known about a male offspring of Antonio da Camara and Antonia Rose de Freitas: Antonio Camara de Freitas born 03 Nov.1873 Calheta, Madeira ~( married Maria Henriqueta da Silva born abt 1879 daughter of Francisco Januario da Silva and Maria Henriqueta da Silva). Children of Maria and Antonio: Manuel de Freitas born 28 Feb 1904 Maria de Freitas born 01 Feb 1905 Margarida de Freitas born 10 June 1907 All born in the Calheta, Madeira Pat Silva Corbera California USA Margaret <marpg2000@comcast.net> wrote: Luis: Thank you for the information and I will keep it in thought. I read that some of the children were left in the "Camara" which was the acquivilant of "city hall" and many were left on the "roda." The name Fernandes is a very old name and difficult to trace. Thanks for the input. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Moniz Family- CAMARA > Margaret, > I am sorry to correct you... again. :-) > > Every name may have different origins. But the "CAMARA" family name has a > long and well known story. Its (oldest) origin goes back 550 years.(*) > > JOAO GONÇALVES ZARCO, knight of the Dom Henrique house, was one of the > founders of the Madeira isl. > > The place where they landed was named "Camara de Lobos" (house of wolfs) - > probably because of the sea-wolfs (seals). > > King Afonso V awarded him the family name "Camara de Lobos" and a new coat > of arms (with wolfs, of course). The chart of this royal grant is from July > 4, 1460. > > JOAO GONC,ALVES DA CAMARA DE LOBOS married to Constanc,a Rodrigues (probably a daughter of my ancestor Rodrigo Anes de Sa'). They had a lot of children using that family name, which was shortened to CAMARA. > > On the other hand, babies who were left in the RODA ("wheel"= device > prepared to receive unwanted babies in the monasteries, churches, etc.) had > no family name, remember? :-) > When they became Adults, they often used devotional (religious) names like > "dos Santos", or the family name of the family that adopted them. > > By the way. I have an ancestor (married in 1725, died in 1777) who was left > in the wheel ("exposto na Roda dos ingeitados da villa da Vianna do Lima") > whose family name(s) was(were): "FERNANDES PITTA". > I have no idea where this family name came from. He was raised in the house > of Francisca DOMINGUES widow of Mathias FERNANDES. > Hmmm.... "Fernandes" again! > My guess is he was raised at his grandparents (his mother's parents) home, > but i'll probably never know for sure. > > Luis K W > Lisboa-Portugal > (*) source: Armorial Lusitano. > Please NOTE that there probably are other Camara families whose name had > other origins: Slaves who worked for the Camara family; people that used > the name has a nickname (a Jose' that worked in the "Camara Municipal" may have turned into "Jose' da Camara", etc.); etc. > > ---------- > > > ---------- > > From: Margaret > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Moniz Family > > Date: Quinta-feira, 25 de Janeiro de 2007 21:52 > > > > Hello Again: > > I reread your note and saw the "Camara." > > Children who were orphens etc., left at the Camara were given that name. > > Could be that is why you cannot locate the parent. Also look at the > > marriage of Vicente and see if the parents are mentioned or the > > grandparents. I am told that if you start with marriage records it tells > a > > lot about the family and also the signetures are usually family menbers. > > > > I have a friend in South Africa who was born in Lisboa and his name was > > Camara. He was able to locate his past by going to the archivo in Lisboa > > and actually was able to locate a cousin. They had both been in the > Camara. > > He didnot know about the children usisng the Camara name if they were > left > > there as orphans. If you go to the archives in Funchal you may find what > > you are looking for. Give it a try. > > > > Best wishes > > Margaret > > ------------- > > > > ------------- > > Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de ? 29,90/mês > A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! > > Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message