It seems to me that the Potuguese tradition is anything goes. Looking at my wife's family tree some lines change surnames every two or three generations. I was discussing this with a bartender in Ponta del Gada once and he told me he came from a familiy of ten and each child had a different surname. I asked him why and he said, "because that's what my father named us." I think de translates as either "of" or "from" depending which is appropriate. Sometimes it can be confusing. My son-in-law says he is "do Brasil". In English from the Brazil sounds wrong but not in Portuguese. I have noticed that Chico Doria always say "The Madeira" not simply Madeira. Scot Austin luis_k_w@clix.pt wrote: > Margaret, > I am sorry, but you are completely wrong. :-)) > > MELLO (or Melo) and SILVA are villages. So, when you write "da Silva de Melo" (or "da Silva e Melo") it means that some ancestors were FROM those places. > > Any way, following the portuguese tradition, GENERALLY the father's name comes LAST (you wrote the oposite). > > You may have DA followed by the (FIRST) name of the mother when, for instance, the father is unknown. For instance: DA RITA (name of the wife of the former president of Portugal). But, please remember, that was LONG AGO (a couple of centuries ago..). > > NOBRIGA (or NOBREGA) doesn't mean noble! It may (or may not) come with a "DE" (from) because it's the name of a place. There are places (villages, parrishes, - Note: it's FREGUESIA, not FRAGAZIA...) with that name. > > The example you wrote (Jose Campos) is true (the origin of the name may have been a nickname). Even so, it means that those people came FROM, or lived IN the fields, so "DOS CAMPOS" is also correctly used. > > Luis de K. e W. :-) > Lisboa-Portugal > > ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- > Jose' > NIce e-mail and I know that the "de" means "from". I have found that in > other islands the names use "de" and "da" to signify > the mother and the fathers names. For instance. Joao da Silva de Mello. > Silva the fathers paternal name and Mello the mothers. > Nobriga means noble however like some names it is acquired. If the family > lived in the "campo" then the name could be Jose > da Souza Campos. In searching the records in the library you have to be > very careful because you can very easily track the wrong family. Or search > the wrong line. Very easy to do. > > Indeed the families worked the land and left their mark. They went to > Hawaii, U.S.A., South America, Africa and India, China etc. > Their ofspring have done well and owe it all to their ancestors. They are > proving how great the Portuguese people were and are whether they came from > one fragazia or another. > > Margaret > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fernandes, Jose" jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 7:31 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > > Margaret, > > We are surrounded by Nóbregas! Now the "de" added to the name got carried > away in Madeira. I don't give it too much importance. It was added to show > nobility and so on. I believe that most Madeirans come from hardworking > families that worked the land. Wed all come from good families. I am proud > of their achievements and their hard work. Our ancestors built Madeira from > nothing. Even to work the land took creativity, courage and hard work. > > I believe that many families in Camacha came originally from Caniço and I > encourage those researching families in Camacha not to forget about Caniço. > > For example you mention the Ornellas. By the late 15th century they already > had extensive landholdings in Caniço. Many new colonists came to work in > their farms (fazenda). Under the old "colonia" system they owned most of the > land rights in Caniço until late in the 20th century. > > Have a nice day. > José Fernnades > > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret > Sent: January 17, 2007 6:02 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > Jose: > My mother in law was a deNobrega. Many use the name Nobriga however in > Camacha I found that her family all were identified by the deNobrega. The > original home was in Val de Paraiso and some of the later generation still > live there. Some went to Hawaii about 1906-7 and later to the U.S. Many of > the later generation have done very well in the U.S, Africa and Brazil. > > There is a branch in Brazil that is very famous in Radio, and T.V. Have > been for many years and several are medical doctors. > In the U.S. the grandchildren are also doing well in what ever endeaver they > choose. Some have married into the Ornellas family and have Freitas and > Gouveia cousins. The Africa connection went back to Madeira and is with the > Portugese gorvernment. > I say this because we are very happy with our connection to that part of the > world. Our roots are good and strong. Thank you Madeira. > > Margaret > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fernandes, Jose" jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:24 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > > Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am > in! > > The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We > have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In > fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the > Nóbrega family. > > In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely > 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly > interconnected. > > Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço > until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own > parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who > gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much > intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. > > Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in > the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who > were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which > was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and > around 1807 and 1814. > > Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. > > Have a nice day. > > José > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com > Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > > Hi Margaret, > > I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One > of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. > > My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was > from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I > know > he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers > family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to > Adelaide > Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her > parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went > to live > in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara > d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is > a > street or something named after them. > > My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't > know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. > > Denise > > In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > marpg2000@comcast.net writes: > > Denise: > > The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her > family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now > owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an > Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those > famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very > interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through > to > the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also > are related to the Miranda family. > > The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through > Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned > here have sadly passed away. > > Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust > of > a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha > and at one time quite prominent. > > Best wishes > Margaret > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------- > > Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de € 29,90/mês > A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! > > Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message