Denise.... you are right,....this catarina that i refered actually married twice. once with pedro teixeira e then with gaspar goncalves ferreira. About your catarina, i think that first of all you should find some date...something that you can really be sure about and from that date would be easier to place her on the family picture...what do u think? leandro -----Original Message----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 6.16pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i Leandro, he Catarina Escorcio that we are looking into is the one married to rancisco Afonso das Cortes in Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel. s for the Catarina that was the daughter of John Drummond and Branca fonso, I have her as Catarina Anes Drummond married to Gaspar Goncalves erreira. don't have a second marriage for her but it could be possible. enise n a message dated 7/9/2007 1:08:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, regobhte1@aol.com writes: Denise, I think that SAPO has some confusion...yes! but overall i found it quite eliable because it is based in a couple of sources that they show on the left corner of the page. bout catarina escorcio...i think she is the daughter of John drummond and ranca afonso. she married abt 1505 with Pedro teixeira (grandson of tristao az teixeira). that info i got from the book familias da gaula, plus SAPO. I hink couldbe pretty accurate....what do u think?? Leandro -----Original Message----- rom: Denise1270@aol.com o: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com ent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.56pm ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Leandro, ice hearing from you. I have found many inconsistencies in the obiliario. ith this situation, I question the marriage date of 1563, though the ARM es show a couple with similar names marry in 1563, I thought that date was ttle late for the people we are talking about. would like to find out who are actually Catarina Escorcio's parents at is point. The line that John Roias and I tie in to is the branch that located to Sao Miguel, the line is getting a little confusing to point us n e ght direction. also find the SAPO web site to have errors or confusing information on it, ve you noticed that as well? enise n a message dated 7/9/2007 12:48:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, egobhte1@aol.com writes: i Denise..... Although the nobiliario from Henrique henriques de noronha is taken as a od source, lately has been discovered that many of his sources was abricated" to enhance his family towards nobility. the best way to really sure if meone descends from the John Drummond family is to find a relative or cestor that carries the escorcio or drummond surname, once we know that he ly y to carry that name is coming from the same family, specially if that anch comes from areas like santa cruz, gaula or machico. leandro ---Original Message----- om: Denise1270@aol.com : prt-madeira@rootsweb.com nt: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.33pm bject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question ohn, as looking through Saudades Livro IV this morning and it says Catarina orcia (married to Francisco Afonso das Cortes) was the daughter of Joao calves Ferreira, da Serra de Agua and his wife Catarina Afonso. It says o cends from Belchior Goncalves Escorcio who is one of the sons of Branca nso Drummond and Belchior Goncalves Ferreira. ou have access to that book? If so, The chapter they are in starts on e 125. The info about Catarina Escorcio is on page 127 bottom right rner agraph. n if you look at Noronha's Nobiliario, he says Belchior Goncalves orcio married Ana Ferreira 9 Jan 1563 in the Se of Funchal. It shows eir o aka da Serra da Agua, relocate to Sao Miguel with his wife Catarina nso, but only shows two children, Afonso Goncalves Ferreira and Pedro calves reira...No mention of Catarina. thoughts? nise D'Antona a message dated 7/8/2007 9:41:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ias@rogers.com writes: anks, but I cannot find anything attached. -- Original Message ----- m: "Dan Paiva" <dan_paiva@hotmail.com> <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> t: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:42 PM ject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i John, don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the ummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado nuscripts Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat ort on details, but it may help identify some of the successive nerations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ k, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a mbination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how es, at least for our line: ) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc tharina Vaz Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line es y back, see Sapo) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao hankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! member back up your data to independent media! R --- Original Message ----- om: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> : <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> nt: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM bject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question orry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer ashed d I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to deira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my fo in the notes of the program. R --- Original Message ----- om: Denise1270@aol.com : jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com nt: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM bject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i John, s you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina corcio's rents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou corcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing mething here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use rreira any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you re lking about? enise D'Antona n a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, oias@rogers.com writes: oticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed rough Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the lombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and o guel. n any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my andao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. oes anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections om Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be ssing a generation, or it is simply wrong. R escendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes eneration No. 1 . FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, ughter JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. hild of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: . i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 . ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO hild of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: . i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 . MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. e rried ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao rge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- ao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel otes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: avaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, em15, and chapter 14 , item 15 hild of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: . BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. SPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of mba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. otes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: aspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao guel, A©'ores. 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http://www.martin.romano.org/ps05/ps05_413.htm I suggest the following for more information on the Drummonds and related families. These sources are solid. If you go to the Portugal Rootsweb site and type in Drummond or Escorcio, you will find a lot of information on the Drummmonds from some very good researchers. One is Professor Francisco Doria considered to be one of the most learned Portuguese genealogists today. Also check the above site, which is a compilation of much of what was discussed on the Portugal List. It was my connection to the already existing Drummond information that I was trying to establish. I now see it was in Noronha all along in the "Ferreira" line, just as Denise pointed out. JR

Gaspar Gonçalves Ferreira (cc Catharina Annes) and Belchior Gonçalves Ferreira cc (Branca Afonso), were brothers, and they both married sisters, daughters of John Drummond and Catharina Escocia. JR