Hi Leandro, Nice hearing from you. I have found many inconsistencies in the Nobiliario. With this situation, I question the marriage date of 1563, though the ARM does show a couple with similar names marry in 1563, I thought that date was a little late for the people we are talking about. I would like to find out who are actually Catarina Escorcio's parents at this point. The line that John Roias and I tie in to is the branch that relocated to Sao Miguel, the line is getting a little confusing to point us in the right direction. I also find the SAPO web site to have errors or confusing information on it, have you noticed that as well? Denise In a message dated 7/9/2007 12:48:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gregobhte1@aol.com writes: Hi Denise..... Although the nobiliario from Henrique henriques de noronha is taken as a good source, lately has been discovered that many of his sources was "fabricated" to enhance his family towards nobility. the best way to really assure if someone descends from the John Drummond family is to find a relative or ancestor that carries the escorcio or drummond surname, once we know that the only way to carry that name is coming from the same family, specially if that branch comes from areas like santa cruz, gaula or machico. leandro -----Original Message----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.33pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i John, was looking through Saudades Livro IV this morning and it says Catarina scorcia (married to Francisco Afonso das Cortes) was the daughter of Joao oncalves Ferreira, da Serra de Agua and his wife Catarina Afonso. It says oao escends from Belchior Goncalves Escorcio who is one of the sons of Branca fonso Drummond and Belchior Goncalves Ferreira. o you have access to that book? If so, The chapter they are in starts on age 125. The info about Catarina Escorcio is on page 127 bottom right corner aragraph. hen if you look at Noronha's Nobiliario, he says Belchior Goncalves scorcio married Ana Ferreira 9 Jan 1563 in the Se of Funchal. It shows their on oao aka da Serra da Agua, relocate to Sao Miguel with his wife Catarina fonso, but only shows two children, Afonso Goncalves Ferreira and Pedro oncalves erreira...No mention of Catarina. ny thoughts? enise D'Antona n a message dated 7/8/2007 9:41:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, roias@rogers.com writes: Thanks, but I cannot find anything attached. JR ---- Original Message ----- rom: "Dan Paiva" <dan_paiva@hotmail.com> o: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> ent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:42 PM ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, I don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the Drummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado manuscripts by Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat short on details, but it may help identify some of the successive generations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a combination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how it goes, at least for our line: 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc Catharina Vaz 2) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line goes way back, see Sapo) 3) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira 4) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes 5) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! Remember back up your data to independent media! JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> To: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Sorry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer crashed and I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to Madeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my info in the notes of the program. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina Escorcio's parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use Ferreira in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you were talking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jroias@rogers.com writes: I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and Sao Miguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes Generation No. 1 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, daughter of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. She married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao Miguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. ------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. 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