Denise, I think that SAPO has some confusion...yes! but overall i found it quite reliable  because it is based in a couple of sources that they show on the left corner of the page. about catarina escorcio...i think she is the daughter of John drummond and branca afonso. she married abt 1505 with Pedro teixeira (grandson of tristao vaz teixeira). that info i got from the book familias da gaula, plus SAPO. I think couldbe pretty accurate....what do u think?? Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.56pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i Leandro, ice hearing from you. I have found many inconsistencies in the Nobiliario. With this situation, I question the marriage date of 1563, though the ARM oes show a couple with similar names marry in 1563, I thought that date was a ittle late for the people we are talking about. would like to find out who are actually Catarina Escorcio's parents at his point. The line that John Roias and I tie in to is the branch that elocated to Sao Miguel, the line is getting a little confusing to point us in he ight direction. also find the SAPO web site to have errors or confusing information on it, ave you noticed that as well? enise n a message dated 7/9/2007 12:48:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, regobhte1@aol.com writes: i Denise..... Although the nobiliario from Henrique henriques de noronha is taken as a ood source, lately has been discovered that many of his sources was fabricated" to enhance his family towards nobility. the best way to really ssure if omeone descends from the John Drummond family is to find a relative or ncestor that carries the escorcio or drummond surname, once we know that the nly ay to carry that name is coming from the same family, specially if that ranch comes from areas like santa cruz, gaula or machico. leandro ----Original Message----- rom: Denise1270@aol.com o: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com ent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.33pm ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question John, was looking through Saudades Livro IV this morning and it says Catarina corcia (married to Francisco Afonso das Cortes) was the daughter of Joao ncalves Ferreira, da Serra de Agua and his wife Catarina Afonso. It says ao scends from Belchior Goncalves Escorcio who is one of the sons of Branca onso Drummond and Belchior Goncalves Ferreira. you have access to that book? If so, The chapter they are in starts on ge 125. The info about Catarina Escorcio is on page 127 bottom right orner ragraph. en if you look at Noronha's Nobiliario, he says Belchior Goncalves corcio married Ana Ferreira 9 Jan 1563 in the Se of Funchal. It shows heir n ao aka da Serra da Agua, relocate to Sao Miguel with his wife Catarina onso, but only shows two children, Afonso Goncalves Ferreira and Pedro ncalves rreira...No mention of Catarina. y thoughts? enise D'Antona a message dated 7/8/2007 9:41:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, oias@rogers.com writes: hanks, but I cannot find anything attached. R --- Original Message ----- om: "Dan Paiva" <dan_paiva@hotmail.com> : <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> nt: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:42 PM bject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, I don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the rummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado anuscripts y Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat hort on details, but it may help identify some of the successive enerations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a ombination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how t oes, at least for our line: 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc atharina Vaz ) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line oes ay back, see Sapo) ) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira ) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes ) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! emember back up your data to independent media! JR ---- Original Message ----- rom: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> o: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> ent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question orry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer rashed nd I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to adeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my nfo in the notes of the program. JR ---- Original Message ----- rom: Denise1270@aol.com o: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com ent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina scorcio's arents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou scorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing omething here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use erreira n any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you ere alking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, roias@rogers.com writes: noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed hrough Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the olombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and ao iguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my randao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections rom Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be issing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes eneration No. 1 . FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, aughter f JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. hild of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 . ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 . MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. he arried ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao orge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, tem15, and chapter 14 , item 15 hild of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. ASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of omba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao iguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. ------------------------------- ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ on't get caught with egg on your face. 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