On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 22:45:07 +0100, Scot Austin <scotaustin@comcast.net> wrote: > Paulo Gomes Jardim wrote: >> On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:25:17 +0100, Scot Austin <scotaustin@comcast.net> >> wrote: >> >> [..] >> >>> I have started a rudimentary database from historical sources of >>> Madeiran colonists prior to the keeping of patish records hoping to >>> someday bridge the gap to documented Madeirans. In it I show two >>> daughters of John Drummond and Branca Affonco with the name Annes they >>> are Caterina Annes and Izabel Annes Escorcio both born in Santa Cruz >>> about the 1440's. Izabel married Joao Leira. Perhaps Branca was related >>> to the Annes family. >>> >> >> Not at all. In this case, they are called Anes because her father was >> João, the famous João da Escócia, or John Drummond. >> > Thanks, I did not realize Anes was a patronymic as it bears little > resemblance to João. Perhaps John Drummond was called Ian in Scotland? It has little ressemblance to the modern form João, but if you think about the medieval, latinized YOHANNES, the similarity would become evident. The Spanish have the Ibañez, which has also precisely the same origin. > I have long been interested in the notion that his grandfather, Prince > Henry Sinclair acquired navigational information on his reputed 1398 Why do you name him Prince? I only have him as Count of Orkney. Can you tell me as well more about that voyage, and the source for it? I have yet to dedicate some time to the research of this part of the family. :-\ > voyage to Nova Scotia that may have been passed on from John's son, João > Escorcio to Cristao Colon. This voyage, the Zeno map and Columbus' > nationality are the subject of much dispute and controversy. But is > fascinating. Eheh - Yes, it's curious, but I don't find it to be much probable. João da Escócia seems to have settled here as a quiet farmer, I don't recall his family to be much involved in navigation affairs. The guys living here traveling to the New World seem to have been rather from the poor or middle class (Escudeiros), guys who managed to find a patron, and there they went, to live an adventurous life at the ocean. It is said that the existance of the New World was common knowledge in Funchal's taverns at the 15th century, and indeed more than one expedition is documented to have been arranged to explore those lands. It's easy to presume that young Cristovão (at the time an obscure sugar merchant, and not very honest at that) stumbled across one of those conversations, managed to gather some drafts and rudimentary maps from the Funchal seaman, and was smart enough to take profit from this. In fact, there's not any need from Bartolomeu Perestrelo presumed navigation charters, or those ones from the Sinclairs. All you need is some coups of wine and a drunked seaman, the rest will come naturally. ;) >>> Also I have a Rodrigo Annes of Santa Cruz father of Izabel Rodrigues >>> Andrada b abt 1488 both died in Calheta. Izabel married Pedro Berenguer >>> Leminhana of Calheta. >>> >> >> Known as Rodrigo Anes da Lombada, dead before 1511, I have him placed in >> Calheta, where his possessions were located, not Santa Cruz. >> Why do you say he's from Santa Cruz? >> > He is shown in the ancestral file with the following information: > > Birth: Abt 1462 > Of Lombada, S.cruz, Madeira, Funchal, Portugal > Death: Jul 1505 > Calheta, Madeira, Funchal, Portugal > Burial: > S.catarina, Lmbda, S.cruz, Madeira, Funchal, Portugal > > Normally I wouldn't put credence in this source, but in this case it was > submitted by the LDS medieval families committee which was meant to > validate from primary sources all information for inclusion, prior to a > certain date, 1600 or so. However, the committee was eventually > dissolved because the members were unable to agree on standards of proof > and they have never published their sources for what had been submitted. I would like to know why they say he is buried in Stª Catarina, when he died in Calheta. In fact there are many Lombadas in Calheta, it's Lombada-land, indeed. His Lombada could easily be one of those. Now, what we know is: From title BERENGUER, Nobiliary of HHN: "Fez Rodrigo Annes testamento em Julho de 1505, e n’elle se diz criado d’o Infante D. Henrique que Deus haja, e se manda sepultar n’a sua Egreja de Sta. Catharina que elle fez n’a Lombada onde morava." Now, we know from here that it's his Will, not necessarly his death, which dates from July 1505. Now, from some extremely valuable, direct source data: The properties of Rodrigo Anes da Lombada were shared among his heirs in 10 Sep 1511 in CALHETA, this according to a transcription made by Dr. Luís de Mello (from his particular collection). His daughter Isabel Rodrigues de Andrade seems to have been made Morgada, and inherited his properties. As you know, she married Pedro Berenguer de Leminhana, a foreigner from Catalunha. They lived at the place which is still know as Lombo do Doutor, one of Calheta's many Lombadas. What we gather from all this is that, most probably, this misterious Lombada of Rodrigo Anes is what is known today as Lombo do Doutor (from Dr. Pedro de Leminhana), and has nothing to do with Santa Cruz. The mentioned Chapel of Santa Catarina must have disappeared long ago, and has no relation with the other in Santa Cruz, which certainly caused the confusion, even if it's on a small valley, and not on any Lombada at all (it's located precisely where the TAP flight crashed back in 1977). As for Rodrigo Anes, his death can be placed between 1505 and 1511, more close to the later. Hope this helps. Paulo -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio