Are any of these publications mentioned transcribed into English? Tthat would be of great importance, when one can not read Portuguese. Thanks, Don L ----- Original Message ----- From: "deepsea06" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Miguel and Pat, Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction. Beleive it or not I have been working on this genealogy since 1985, both on the Madeiran side and the Canadian side, it has been a journey and one which I have enjoyed immensely, especially for the people I have come to know along the way. Now begins my journey in understanding the foundations from whence these people came. Cheers, Lou On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]> wrote: > Lou, > > The "Registo Genealogico De Familias Que Passaram A Madeira by Luiz Peter > Clode can be ordered and viewed at your local Family History Center of > LDS, the film number is > 1183626 Item #5. > > I thought this publication was online, but I couldn't find it today. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 9:53:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Lou, > > Clode, HHN and Felisberto were available on-line, on the NESOS site. We > are > all waiting for that site to re-open. It had ALL the books ever published > about Madeira. > Elucidário Madeirense was on line on Alberto Vieira's site. I think. I > have > a copy of the first edition. > > For illustrious members of madeiran families you have Clode's "Registo > bio-biliográfico de Madeirenses ilustres." My grand-father has the honour > of > being included. (As well as in the "Elucidário"). It is a good source for > genealogical data, too. > > Elucidário madeirense, too, reports some of the more prominent and oldest > families. And it is also a genealogical source. Ir refers the parishes, > the > first priests. And the oldest families who settled there and the names of > the places. > > It has mistakes, of course. And some old families are not referred. But it > is a must. > > For the moment, though it has mistakes, omissions, etc. and is a bit > ideologically biased, you could also consult Padre Nunes Pereira, Ilhas de > Zargo- It was on-line, the genealogical part at least. With many of the > oldest families from Madeira. > At one point we all connect with at least one or some or several of these > oldest families. > So, Ilhas de Zargo is also a must. > > BTW Pe. Nunes Pereira was closely related to my family. > > Well, I hope I have been of some help, > > > Best regards, > > Miguel > > > > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Lou, >> >> I think that the best introduction to genealogy is History. To set the >> families in contrast with their times and societies one should have an >> historical background. >> >> So the first book that I suggest you and everyone to read is a book of >> Portuguese History. I would recommend "The First Global Village" (How >> Portugal changed the World) by Martin Page, Editorial Notícias. Maybe you >> can get it by Amazon. >> >> "Portugal is Europe's south-western extremity washed by the Atlantic and >> warmed by the Mediterranean sun. Alone among Iberia's ancient kingdoms, >> it >> is a nation half the size of Florida, with two-thirds the population. Yet >> over centuries, it has influenced the lives of the rest of us far more >> than >> many larger and more powerful countries." >> >> "Martin Page provides a fresh perspective on a fascinating country. The >> First Global Village is an enthralling narrative. (Peter Wise, the >> Financial >> Times) >> >> >> "Martin Page is full of live" (The New Yorker) >> >> >> Once you got the general picture of Portuguese history and its action >> over >> the whole world, as a madeiran descendant you should read something about >> Madeira history. There are several Portuguese and Foreign authors who >> wrote >> about Madeira. You can find on Alberto Vieira's site lots of books about >> Madeira. The ones I have at my hand here are all Portuguese. But it would >> be >> a necessary instrument for any madeiran descendant to constitute a small >> library with books about Madeira. >> >> >> And only then would I try to select some of the "genealogistas de >> referência." A study on our own roots of course is a study of ourselves, >> so >> genealogy ends up being a discipline of self-knowledge, and not some >> snobbish activity. >> >> >> I will come later to this matter, >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Miguel etal., >>> With all the talk of the founding families and history of Madeira etc., >>> can you suggest a reading list that will enlighten me? Also how readily >>> available are the genealogical works that you all mention so often, >>> Clode, >>> HHN etc. If not available in hard copy what about on the net. Thank you >>> for >>> all the wonderful education and enlightenment on my ancestors. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Lou >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro >>> Henriques >>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:11 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> >>> Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had >>> some >>> status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade >>> line. >>> I >>> think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! >>> >>> regards, >>> >>> Miguel >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Miguel, >>> > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and >>> yes >>> > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Lou >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: [email protected] >>> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >>> > Castro >>> > Henriques >>> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM >>> > To: [email protected] >>> > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > >>> > Hello Lou, >>> > >>> > >>> > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some >>> > Brasões >>> > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his >>> line? >>> > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. >>> > >>> > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > >>> > Miguel >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage >>> not >>> > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) >>> > > >>> > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, >>> 16 >>> > > Sept >>> > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) >>> > > >>> > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, >>> 27 >>> > Aug >>> > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) >>> > > >>> > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao >>> > Vicente, >>> > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) >>> > > >>> > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – >>> > > B#556, fl 63) >>> > > >>> > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June >>> > 1735 >>> > > – >>> > > B#409, fl 24) >>> > > >>> > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 >>> Feb >>> > > 1770 >>> > > – B#409, fl 79) >>> > > >>> > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan >>> > 1815 >>> > > – >>> > > B#411, fl 8) >>> > > >>> > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 >>> > July >>> > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) >>> > > >>> > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra >>> de >>> > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) >>> > > >>> > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da >>> Camara >>> > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) >>> > > >>> > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, >>> 9 >>> > > April 1939) >>> > > >>> > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, >>> > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) >>> > > >>> > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, >>> > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> > [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > > >>> > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also >>> descendant >>> > of >>> > > the homem family in ribeira brava >>> > > >>> > > thank you >>> > > >>> > > leandro >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>> > > [email protected] writes: >>> > > >>> > > Leandro, >>> > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain >>> > > >>> > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel >>> Pereira >>> > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) >>> > > >>> > > I hope that clears up the confusion. >>> > > >>> > > Lou >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> > [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > > >>> > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor >>> > > homem. >>> > > >>> > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. >>> > > But >>> > pat >>> > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco >>> > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) >>> > > >>> > > leandro >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>> > > [email protected] writes: >>> > > >>> > > Leandro, >>> > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a >>> little >>> > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. >>> > > >>> > > Lou >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> > > [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>> > > >>> > > Thank you Pat >>> > > >>> > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? >>> > > >>> > > Thank you >>> > > >>> > > Leandro >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>> > > [email protected] writes: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Leandro, >>> > > >>> > > Not sure if this is the same "person." >>> > > >>> > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor >>> Homem, >>> > > with >>> > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and >>> Lou. >>> > > >>> > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem >>> (de >>> > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. >>> > > >>> > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. >>> > > >>> > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... >>> > > >>> > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my >>> > > genealogy >>> > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not >>> > > now...Frustrating to say the least. >>> > > >>> > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da >>> Costa's >>> > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... >>> > > Nothing >>> > > consent but the state of change...;-))). >>> > > >>> > > Pat >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>> > Pacific >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>> > > >>> > > Pat, >>> > > >>> > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called >>> INES >>> > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and >>> > not >>> > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? >>> or >>> > > am i mistaken? >>> > > >>> > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] >>> > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? >>> > > >>> > > Thank you >>> > > >>> > > Leandro >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>> > > >>> > > Pat, >>> > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal >>> > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list >>> his >>> > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as >>> > > follows >>> > > >>> > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 >>> > > >>> > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava >>> May >>> > > 22 1560 >>> > > >>> > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana >>> > > >>> > > Does this answer your questions? >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Regards, >>> > > Lou >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>> > > >>> > > Miguel, >>> > > >>> > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your >>> direct >>> > > line ancestors? >>> > > >>> > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and >>> if >>> > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao >>> Ennes >>> > is >>> > > your ancestor... >>> > > >>> > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order >>> > from >>> > > >>> > > Fernao Ennes to you... >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Pat >>> > > >>> > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced >>> below? >>> > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' >>> names >>> > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the >>> > Duarte >>> > > name from? >>> > > >>> > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is >>> > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >>> > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >>> > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" < >>> [email protected] >>> > > >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>> > Pacific >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > > >>> > > Lou, >>> > > >>> > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever >>> be. >>> > > For us >>> > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >>> expected >>> > > names >>> > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not >>> all >>> > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many >>> people. >>> > > >>> > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from >>> > the >>> > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also >>> have >>> > > Homens >>> > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know >>> > > there >>> > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, >>> > Homem >>> > > de >>> > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, >>> > > because a >>> > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). >>> > > >>> > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken >>> > > from >>> > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a >>> very >>> > > ancient Portuguese family. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Well, I hope I was of some help, >>> > > >>> > > Best regards, >>> > > >>> > > Miguel >>> > > >>> > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his >>> marriage >>> > > to >>> > > Maria Lopes? >>> > > >>> > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo >>> > as >>> > > ascendant. >>> > > >>> > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]mail.com >>> > >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > Miguel >>> > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn >>> mode >>> > > and >>> > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >>> > > > >>> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >>> is >>> > > > mentioned >>> > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues >>> Duarte >>> > > on 16 >>> > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >>> > > > >>> > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >>> > Maria >>> > > Lopes >>> > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book >>> #454, >>> > fl >>> > > 81) >>> > > > >>> > > > Regards, >>> > > > Lou >>> > > > >>> > > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > > From: [email protected] >>> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >>> > > Castro >>> > > > Henriques >>> > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >>> > > > To: [email protected] >>> > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > > > >>> > > > Hello Lu, >>> > > > >>> > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >>> > > typical >>> > > > names from these times. >>> > > > >>> > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >>> > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any >>> > > Drummond >>> > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >>> > > daughter ? >>> > > > >>> > > > Regards, >>> > > > >>> > > > Miguel >>> > > > >>> > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < >>> > [email protected]> >>> > > > wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > All, >>> > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am >>> sending >>> > > them >>> > > > out >>> > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or >>> hints >>> > are >>> > > > > appreciated. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar >>> de >>> > > Baixo >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to >>> 1568 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is >>> welcomed. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Lou >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > ------------------------------- >>> > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > > without the >>> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > ------------------------------- >>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > without >>> > > the >>> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > ------------------------------- >>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > without >>> > > the >>> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> > > the >>> > > quotes in the subject >>> > > and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> > > the >>> > > quotes in the subject >>> > > and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > the >>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > the >>> > > quotes in the subject >>> > > and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > the >>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > the >>> > > quotes in the subject >>> > > and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Don, The publication that I noted, that's on film at LDS is in Portuguese. Before I started my research journey I could not read Portuguese, nor speak it, let alone write it, but with the help of an English-Portuguese/Portuguese-English Dictionary, the reading task became easier. I do understand the spoken Portuguese, but I'm still working on my conversational and written skills that I so badly lack. Do you speak/understand the spoken Portuguese? If you get "stumped," just post to this list group, so many helpful individuals, so willing to help... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 11:20:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Are any of these publications mentioned transcribed into English? Tthat would be of great importance, when one can not read Portuguese. Thanks, Don L ----- Original Message ----- From: "deepsea06" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Miguel and Pat, Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction. Beleive it or not I have been working on this genealogy since 1985, both on the Madeiran side and the Canadian side, it has been a journey and one which I have enjoyed immensely, especially for the people I have come to know along the way. Now begins my journey in understanding the foundations from whence these people came. Cheers, Lou On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]> wrote: > Lou, > > The "Registo Genealogico De Familias Que Passaram A Madeira by Luiz Peter > Clode can be ordered and viewed at your local Family History Center of > LDS, the film number is > 1183626 Item #5. > > I thought this publication was online, but I couldn't find it today. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 9:53:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Lou, > > Clode, HHN and Felisberto were available on-line, on the NESOS site. We > are > all waiting for that site to re-open. It had ALL the books ever published > about Madeira. > Elucidário Madeirense was on line on Alberto Vieira's site. I think. I > have > a copy of the first edition. > > For illustrious members of madeiran families you have Clode's "Registo > bio-biliográfico de Madeirenses ilustres." My grand-father has the honour > of > being included. (As well as in the "Elucidário"). It is a good source for > genealogical data, too. > > Elucidário madeirense, too, reports some of the more prominent and oldest > families. And it is also a genealogical source. Ir refers the parishes, > the > first priests. And the oldest families who settled there and the names of > the places. > > It has mistakes, of course. And some old families are not referred. But it > is a must. > > For the moment, though it has mistakes, omissions, etc. and is a bit > ideologically biased, you could also consult Padre Nunes Pereira, Ilhas de > Zargo- It was on-line, the genealogical part at least. With many of the > oldest families from Madeira. > At one point we all connect with at least one or some or several of these > oldest families. > So, Ilhas de Zargo is also a must. > > BTW Pe. Nunes Pereira was closely related to my family. > > Well, I hope I have been of some help, > > > Best regards, > > Miguel > > > > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Lou, >> >> I think that the best introduction to genealogy is History. To set the >> families in contrast with their times and societies one should have an >> historical background. >> >> So the first book that I suggest you and everyone to read is a book of >> Portuguese History. I would recommend "The First Global Village" (How >> Portugal changed the World) by Martin Page, Editorial Notícias. Maybe you >> can get it by Amazon. >> >> "Portugal is Europe's south-western extremity washed by the Atlantic and >> warmed by the Mediterranean sun. Alone among Iberia's ancient kingdoms, >> it >> is a nation half the size of Florida, with two-thirds the population. Yet >> over centuries, it has influenced the lives of the rest of us far more >> than >> many larger and more powerful countries." >> >> "Martin Page provides a fresh perspective on a fascinating country. The >> First Global Village is an enthralling narrative. (Peter Wise, the >> Financial >> Times) >> >> >> "Martin Page is full of live" (The New Yorker) >> >> >> Once you got the general picture of Portuguese history and its action >> over >> the whole world, as a madeiran descendant you should read something about >> Madeira history. There are several Portuguese and Foreign authors who >> wrote >> about Madeira. You can find on Alberto Vieira's site lots of books about >> Madeira. The ones I have at my hand here are all Portuguese. But it would >> be >> a necessary instrument for any madeiran descendant to constitute a small >> library with books about Madeira. >> >> >> And only then would I try to select some of the "genealogistas de >> referência." A study on our own roots of course is a study of ourselves, >> so >> genealogy ends up being a discipline of self-knowledge, and not some >> snobbish activity. >> >> >> I will come later to this matter, >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Miguel etal., >>> With all the talk of the founding families and history of Madeira etc., >>> can you suggest a reading list that will enlighten me? Also how readily >>> available are the genealogical works that you all mention so often, >>> Clode, >>> HHN etc. If not available in hard copy what about on the net. Thank you >>> for >>> all the wonderful education and enlightenment on my ancestors. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Lou >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro >>> Henriques >>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:11 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> >>> Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had >>> some >>> status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade >>> line. >>> I >>> think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! >>> >>> regards, >>> >>> Miguel >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Miguel, >>> > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and >>> yes >>> > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Lou >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: [email protected] >>> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >>> > Castro >>> > Henriques >>> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM >>> > To: [email protected] >>> > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > >>> > Hello Lou, >>> > >>> > >>> > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some >>> > Brasões >>> > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his >>> line? >>> > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. >>> > >>> > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > >>> > Miguel >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage >>> not >>> > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) >>> > > >>> > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, >>> 16 >>> > > Sept >>> > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) >>> > > >>> > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, >>> 27 >>> > Aug >>> > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) >>> > > >>> > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao >>> > Vicente, >>> > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) >>> > > >>> > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – >>> > > B#556, fl 63) >>> > > >>> > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June >>> > 1735 >>> > > – >>> > > B#409, fl 24) >>> > > >>> > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 >>> Feb >>> > > 1770 >>> > > – B#409, fl 79) >>> > > >>> > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan >>> > 1815 >>> > > – >>> > > B#411, fl 8) >>> > > >>> > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 >>> > July >>> > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) >>> > > >>> > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra >>> de >>> > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) >>> > > >>> > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da >>> Camara >>> > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) >>> > > >>> > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, >>> 9 >>> > > April 1939) >>> > > >>> > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, >>> > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) >>> > > >>> > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, >>> > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> > [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > > >>> > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also >>> descendant >>> > of >>> > > the homem family in ribeira brava >>> > > >>> > > thank you >>> > > >>> > > leandro >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>> > > [email protected] writes: >>> > > >>> > > Leandro, >>> > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain >>> > > >>> > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel >>> Pereira >>> > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) >>> > > >>> > > I hope that clears up the confusion. >>> > > >>> > > Lou >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> > [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > > >>> > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor >>> > > homem. >>> > > >>> > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. >>> > > But >>> > pat >>> > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco >>> > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) >>> > > >>> > > leandro >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>> > > [email protected] writes: >>> > > >>> > > Leandro, >>> > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a >>> little >>> > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. >>> > > >>> > > Lou >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> > > [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>> > > >>> > > Thank you Pat >>> > > >>> > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? >>> > > >>> > > Thank you >>> > > >>> > > Leandro >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>> > > [email protected] writes: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Leandro, >>> > > >>> > > Not sure if this is the same "person." >>> > > >>> > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor >>> Homem, >>> > > with >>> > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and >>> Lou. >>> > > >>> > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem >>> (de >>> > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. >>> > > >>> > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. >>> > > >>> > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... >>> > > >>> > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my >>> > > genealogy >>> > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not >>> > > now...Frustrating to say the least. >>> > > >>> > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da >>> Costa's >>> > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... >>> > > Nothing >>> > > consent but the state of change...;-))). >>> > > >>> > > Pat >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>> > Pacific >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>> > > >>> > > Pat, >>> > > >>> > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called >>> INES >>> > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and >>> > not >>> > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? >>> or >>> > > am i mistaken? >>> > > >>> > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] >>> > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? >>> > > >>> > > Thank you >>> > > >>> > > Leandro >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>> > > >>> > > Pat, >>> > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal >>> > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list >>> his >>> > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as >>> > > follows >>> > > >>> > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 >>> > > >>> > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava >>> May >>> > > 22 1560 >>> > > >>> > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana >>> > > >>> > > Does this answer your questions? >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Regards, >>> > > Lou >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: [email protected] >>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>> > > >>> > > Miguel, >>> > > >>> > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your >>> direct >>> > > line ancestors? >>> > > >>> > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and >>> if >>> > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao >>> Ennes >>> > is >>> > > your ancestor... >>> > > >>> > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order >>> > from >>> > > >>> > > Fernao Ennes to you... >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Pat >>> > > >>> > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced >>> below? >>> > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' >>> names >>> > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the >>> > Duarte >>> > > name from? >>> > > >>> > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is >>> > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >>> > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >>> > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" < >>> [email protected] >>> > > >>> > > To: [email protected] >>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>> > Pacific >>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > > >>> > > Lou, >>> > > >>> > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever >>> be. >>> > > For us >>> > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >>> expected >>> > > names >>> > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not >>> all >>> > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many >>> people. >>> > > >>> > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from >>> > the >>> > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also >>> have >>> > > Homens >>> > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know >>> > > there >>> > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, >>> > Homem >>> > > de >>> > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, >>> > > because a >>> > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). >>> > > >>> > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken >>> > > from >>> > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a >>> very >>> > > ancient Portuguese family. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Well, I hope I was of some help, >>> > > >>> > > Best regards, >>> > > >>> > > Miguel >>> > > >>> > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his >>> marriage >>> > > to >>> > > Maria Lopes? >>> > > >>> > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo >>> > as >>> > > ascendant. >>> > > >>> > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected] >>> > >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > Miguel >>> > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn >>> mode >>> > > and >>> > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >>> > > > >>> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >>> is >>> > > > mentioned >>> > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues >>> Duarte >>> > > on 16 >>> > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >>> > > > >>> > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >>> > Maria >>> > > Lopes >>> > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book >>> #454, >>> > fl >>> > > 81) >>> > > > >>> > > > Regards, >>> > > > Lou >>> > > > >>> > > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > > From: [email protected] >>> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >>> > > Castro >>> > > > Henriques >>> > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >>> > > > To: [email protected] >>> > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>> > > > >>> > > > Hello Lu, >>> > > > >>> > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >>> > > typical >>> > > > names from these times. >>> > > > >>> > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >>> > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any >>> > > Drummond >>> > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >>> > > daughter ? >>> > > > >>> > > > Regards, >>> > > > >>> > > > Miguel >>> > > > >>> > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < >>> > [email protected]> >>> > > > wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > All, >>> > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am >>> sending >>> > > them >>> > > > out >>> > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or >>> hints >>> > are >>> > > > > appreciated. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar >>> de >>> > > Baixo >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to >>> 1568 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >>> > > > > >>> > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is >>> welcomed. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Lou >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > ------------------------------- >>> > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > > without the >>> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > ------------------------------- >>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > without >>> > > the >>> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > ------------------------------- >>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > without >>> > > the >>> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> > > the >>> > > quotes in the subject >>> > > and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> > > the >>> > > quotes in the subject >>> > > and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > the >>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > the >>> > > quotes in the subject >>> > > and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > the >>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> > the >>> > > quotes in the subject >>> > > and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message