Cece, It makes sense, but sorry to say it's not accurate. Catarina Anes Afonso does not appear in any of the major Madeiran Drummond's genealogies. (HHN, Meneses Vaz, Pereira de Agrela). Neither in iother sources. Look, I may be wrong, but to my knowledge she only appears like you say on geneall, which quotes the ADNB (one book about the Bettencourt's origins, that has some mistakes and this - I was informed by a very competent genealogist is one of them.). OK. You saw it in Felisberto? That would ,be matter for consideration. Where? and in the Acciolis title in HHN? (In the last one I can not find it.) Maybe you made some confusion or you followed somebody's else confusion? (No problem. We are all the time making confusions in genealogy or following people who made these confuions centuries ago or recently. genealogy is complex, tricky. Names are very similar. In one doc. they appear one way then in another in another way, Genealogies, even by the leading genealogists are tricky, Misleading, Erroneous. And well established mistakes last for centuries. And I think this connection of the Camachos with the Drummonds is one of them. regards, Miguel On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm getting nervous that I may have messed something up here and haven't > had > a chance to pull all the sources yet...but this is what I have in my tree: > > The Catherina Anes Afonso that is married to Pedro Gonçalves Camacho is the > daughter of Catherine Annes Drummond and Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira (and > thus > grandaughter of Joao Escocio). > > Make any better sense now? Or do I neeed to go and find my mistake??? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scot Austin > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > Cece, > > > > Can you find a reference about Pedro Gonçalves Camacho and Catarina > > Anes in the Acciolis title of HHN? > > > > There is in fact a Catarina Anes dau. of João Escócio, but it's > > another, an homonimous of the one geneall refers as wife of Pedro > Gonçalves Camacho. > > > I show her married to Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira > > Scot > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> Miguel, > >> Re your note below about : > >> "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about Catarina Anes > >> Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho connection through Catarina to > >> the Drummonds is not real.It is one of geneall flops. She was not a > >> Drummond. > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think." > >> > >> I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter > >> Isabel - and neither from Geneall. > >> My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras > >> Drummond & Lordello geneologies). > >> So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do > >> you have to disprove this? > >> Cece > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > >> Castro Henriques > >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >> > >> Pat, > >> > >> Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de > >> Andrade in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones > >> I'm looking for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who > >> married in 1650 Gaspar de Moura de Mendonça. > >> My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, > >> becoming a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would > >> be ostracized for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very > >> least let one year go by. > >> > >> There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. > >> > >> Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO > >> 1651, parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some > >> Barreto. And there were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or > Tuim) around in S. > >> Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you > >> know very well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the > >> Barretos. > >> > >> . > >> > >> The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about > >> > >> > >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho > >> > >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of > >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. > >> > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> > >> Miguel > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Miguel, > >>> > >>> I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira > >>> parents of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. > >>> > >>> Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... > >>> Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. > >>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via > >>> John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate > >>> that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). > >>> > >>> John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel > >>> Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). > >>> > >>> Pat > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > >>> Pacific > >>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >>> > >>> > >>>> Does anyone has any info about this couple: > >>>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? > >>> > >>> Thanks in advance for any news. > >>> > >>> Miguel > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found > >> in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.99/2553 - Release Date: > >> 12/10/09 07:36:00 > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this > incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.102/2556 - Release Date: 12/11/09 > 10:06:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >