I have (as ancestors of Pedro Gonçalves César) Manuel Afonso m. 1588 CL Beatriz Jorge. Found in Pereira de Agrela that Beatriz Jorge was the dau. of Estêvão Luís and Catarina de Chaves. So, becuase as far as I know there are not many Chaves in that time (excluding the Figueira de Chaves, but these will use Figueira or Figueira de Chaves) ) , I suppose that Catarina de Chaves was the dau. of Gonçalo Jorge (de Chaves) son of Jorge Fernandes de Chaves and Ana Luís.( p.d. of Vasco Gonçalves de Chaves and Catarina Fernandes de Vares) m- Leonor Teixeira (dau. of João Teixeira Escórcio and Branca de Vasconcelos. p.d. of Pedro Teixeira and Catarina Escórcio. What do you think? Miguel de CH -

Is this the same Pedro Goncalves Cesar that married Maria Goncalves in Camara de Lobos in 1670? If so, I have different parents (sourced as Leandro). I show his parents to be Manuel Ferreira (son of Domingos Ferreira & Andresa Lopes)m Beatriz Jorge (daughter of Pedro Goncalves & Mecia Goncalves), 10 Aug 1633, in Camara de Lobos...which works much better as far as timeline, don't you agree? Leandro might have more details about this... Cece -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Chaves from Câmara de Lobos I have (as ancestors of Pedro Gonçalves César) Manuel Afonso m. 1588 CL Beatriz Jorge. Found in Pereira de Agrela that Beatriz Jorge was the dau. of Estêvão Luís and Catarina de Chaves. So, becuase as far as I know there are not many Chaves in that time (excluding the Figueira de Chaves, but these will use Figueira or Figueira de Chaves) ) , I suppose that Catarina de Chaves was the dau. of Gonçalo Jorge (de Chaves) son of Jorge Fernandes de Chaves and Ana Luís.( p.d. of Vasco Gonçalves de Chaves and Catarina Fernandes de Vares) m- Leonor Teixeira (dau. of João Teixeira Escórcio and Branca de Vasconcelos. p.d. of Pedro Teixeira and Catarina Escórcio. What do you think? Miguel de CH - ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.114/2575 - Release Date: 12/21/09 19:13:00

Cece, Thanks. It's the same Pedro Gonçalves César. I trusted my memory and mixed two lines, Manuel Afonso and Beatriz Jorge belong to another line. But nevertheless it's their ascendants and not descendants that I worked out. So the hypothesis remains. To add weight to my hypothesis I saw in the Botelhos title from FMPS pg 243 another dau. of Estevâo Luís and Catarina de Chaves. Her name was Madalena Luís. She married ( 1606. CL) Pedro Teles de Abreu, son of Diogo Luis Botelho and of the enigmatic Bárbara Teles de Abreu. Some genealogists suppose that she's is related to the Telles from Campanário, who at one moment of time, 2 or 3 generations after their emergence just as Teles used the name Telles de Meneses.To support their hypothesis in fact, the sons of Pedro Teles de Abreu and Madalena Luís carried the name Telles de Meneses.: 1. The famous priest Bernardino Teles de Menses (who appears in a lot of marriage documents), and 2. Maria Teles de Meneses, married to Pedro Correia de Castro, son of Francisco Ferraz Correia and Joana Nunes. In the line of Pedro Gonçalves César in case you don't have you may add- The parents of Domingos Ferreira (m. 1590 CL Andreza Lopes) are Francisco Afonso and Isabel Rodrigues. Those of Andreza, Pedro Pires Gonçalves and Filipa Lopes. (These last ones are the trunk of a well known familiy from CL called the Lopes Gonçalves. BTW Pedro Gonçalves and Mecia Gonçalves appear in Pereira de Agrela nobiliary. Cheers, Miguel 2009/12/22 Cece Camara <[email protected]> > Is this the same Pedro Goncalves Cesar that married Maria Goncalves in > Camara de Lobos in 1670? If so, I have different parents (sourced as > Leandro). I show his parents to be > Manuel Ferreira (son of Domingos Ferreira & Andresa Lopes)m Beatriz Jorge > (daughter of Pedro Goncalves & Mecia Goncalves), 10 Aug 1633, in Camara de > Lobos...which works much better as far as timeline, don't you agree? > > Leandro might have more details about this... > > Cece > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Chaves from Câmara de Lobos > > I have (as ancestors of Pedro Gonçalves César) Manuel Afonso m. 1588 CL > Beatriz Jorge. > > Found in Pereira de Agrela that Beatriz Jorge was the dau. of Estêvão Luís > and Catarina de Chaves. > > So, becuase as far as I know there are not many Chaves in that time > (excluding the Figueira de Chaves, but these will use Figueira or Figueira > de Chaves) ) , I suppose that Catarina de Chaves was the dau. of Gonçalo > Jorge (de Chaves) son of Jorge Fernandes de Chaves and Ana Luís.( p.d. of > Vasco Gonçalves de Chaves and Catarina Fernandes de Vares) m- Leonor > Teixeira (dau. of João Teixeira Escórcio and Branca de Vasconcelos. p.d. of > Pedro Teixeira and Catarina Escórcio. > > > What do you think? > > > Miguel de CH > > - > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this > incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.114/2575 - Release Date: 12/21/09 > 19:13:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >