Yes, I remember vaguely that discussion- But not the romanesque part. Can you find it? Seems succulent. , During the 15 th and 16 th the Chaves (according to Pereira de Agrela, and other genealogists) were considered top nobiliy from Câmara de Lobos. I can't see a Chaves being Mestre de Açúcar. Still...perhaps a natural son of a natural son? But wasn't he a "guanche"? On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Fernandes, Jose < [email protected]> wrote: > Oops I missed that comment from Miguel. > Miguel will recall Paulo's posting on the Sousa's from Ribeira Grande, > Azores and their discussion on the origin of the Sousas. > Part of that discussion was the possibility of Jerónimo de Sousa, our > ancestor, coming from the Sousas's of Ribeira Grande and eventually from > Iresa who had married a Potuguese noble who killed a man and went in exile > to Azores. Iresa was Irish who had come with Queen Leonor de Lancaster. > At least this is what I remember. I have it in my records but I haven't got > time for the moment. > > Gonçalo Jorge was a 'mestre d'açucar. In the certificate should have that. > I don't know if he was married twice. De Chaves name here at this time, may > be suggest that he may have been first generation in Madeira. But he was > mestre d'açucar and Portuguese didn't much about sugar. I always thought he > might be from the canaries. I don't have his parents. Do you have parents > from the Policena marriage? > > José > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Cece Camara > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:15 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > > Jose said:It is our Irish link! > > Miguel said:Irish? How come? refresh me, please, because it's my favourite > country,apart from Portugal ; - )) > > Cece says-My question exactly!! And especially since that is the next > biggest part of my ancestry. Why is it an Irish link?? > > > Jose said: On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one > married in 1622 > to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de Castro > Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. > > Cece says-Do you know if this Goncalo Jorge was married twice? I have a > Goncalo Jorge (same time frame) married to Dona Policena Teixeira. I > checked > geneall and they have a Goncalo Jorge de Chaves married to Leonor Teixeira > that look to be the same couple maybe..as both my Policena (from Teixeiras > de Tristao Vaz) and their Leonor are daughters of João Teixeira Escórcio > (although even there is a conflict as different mothers are listed). > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:27 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Fernandes, Jose < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Miguel, > > Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz > > or Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage > > and he doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a > > D'Orta. Is it possible it is just that he had a "horta"? > > > > Well, theoretically yes. It could be possible that he was named D'Orta > because he had an Horta. But an horta is a small and trivial thing, and he > was a Lavrador. He had to be a wealthy Lavrador since he married a Viana, > from nobility. I don't see that the Vianas, proud owners of the best marble > tomb in Madeira, would give away a daughter to a guy that had an Horta. > The Vianas had high status on earth and on heavens! > > > > > > We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my > > 11th, from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! > > > > Irish? How come? refresh me, please, because it's my favourite > > country, > apart from Portugal ; - )) > > > > I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. > > This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. > > > > Marcos must be of the real Bragas, because that´s a name (Marcos) they > > used > a lot. Some Marques, may come from one of the Marcos de Braga. > > So do you have a connection with Diogo Cão, the navigator (thorugh the > Bragas) ? > > Vitória either is from the Correias Mirandas, or from the Lourenço de > Miranda branch, I suppose. > > > > As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. > > > Yes, I know. It is great to find so many cousins. > > > > > Terras de Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. > > I shall visit itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore > > the castle? > > > If the Nóbregas are from there, noblesse oblige, we have to help to restore > that castle ; -)) > > > > > I like the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all over the world > now! > > > > Yes. It was a prophetic name. > > > > > The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. > > > > > > On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married in 1622 > > to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de Castro > > (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. > > > That's on spot. Is what I have too. I still have to figure out from where > this Fragas came to madeira, because it's nor a common name. > > > > Can't find that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the way, > > Gonçalo is a "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro Afonso, he > > was a "lavrador" and seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I > > only know Maria's mother a widow- Gregória Martins. > > > > Yes- Gonçalo is the responsible for my blood liking to run with rum. A > very guilty man. Has spoiled generations ; -)) > > > > Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? > > > > > I don't know, though... Martins does'nt sound to me as a typical > Portosantense name. But... > > > regards, > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >