Yes, Pat, that's the same file or files that my cousin Maria do Monte sent to Portugal-gen. However some days ago Luis posted a link in which there is that file and are more elements. Actually it consists of 5 or more books. Some have Part I and Part II-. All are handwritten. But they are easy to read. Now that you have a new computer it won't take that much. PA is indispensable, Miguel On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Miguel, > > Do you recall if this is the file/works that FAD or someone on the > Portuguese List actually scanned and made it available to list members for > downloading...?? > I recall a very large file, that took me days to download, but for the life > of me I can't put my hands on it now... I think it's the same file that I > sent to Janette. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janette Chun" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 2:36:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > Thank goodness some of these survived. And thankfully, there are still > people interested in preserving history. > > I keep hoping (call me an optimist) that there will be an > archeological discovery that will answer so many of our questions : ) > > Janette > On 20-Dec-09, at 5:54 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Pereira d'Agrella work is a manuscript. It has several tomes, and > > perhaps > > 700 pages or more. I have not counted them. It is an interesting work > > because it takes a broad view of some families that usually are not > > referred > > in the other nobiliaries. It is a nobiliary. Pereira de Agrela had > > the > > chance to see several documents that since him were lost, ruined or > > eaten by > > mice, moth, worms, and human carelessness (the worst and more > > damaging). > > Old documents could stay in damp places for ages. Some miraculously > > survived > > but many disappeared. And the worst thing is that many disappeared > > or were > > ruined due to lack of care during the 19 th century . Older people > > respected > > a bit more the written documents. But with the emergence of print, > > old stuff > > was groovy, old was outdated, considered rubish, except by some few > > like > > Pereira d'Agrela. > > His g-gdaughter, an extremely generous person, told me several > > things about > > his ancestor. Curiously since him all the Agrellas have devoted > > themselves > > to genealogy until our days, where their representative - my > > cousin- is > > still investigating. > > > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> He was a genealogist in Madeira during the 1700s. > >> > >> The title page on the extract I have is: Genealogias da ilha da > >> Madeira por Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella. (Este autor nasceu em > >> mais de 1777 no Funchal, onde morreu em fevereiro de 1835). It's all > >> in script, so I hope I've read that correctly. Loosely translated it > >> says Genealogies of the Island of Madeira by Joao Agostinho Pereira > >> d'Agrela. (This author was born before 1777 in Funchal where he died > >> in February 1835). > >> > >> I have no idea how extensive his volume of work is - as mentioned I > >> only have 33 pages (that I know of : ) - but Miguel makes reference > >> to > >> pg 166, so my guess - extensive. I also don't know if this is > >> available anywhere online. I will look to see if I have any more > >> files that might complete this volume. I'm happy to share what I > >> have > >> on this particular genealogist if anyone is interested, please email > >> me at [email protected] At this stage, it looks like the Aguares > >> de Machico, Garros, Ferreiras de Arco, Pereiras das Florencas, > >> Agrellas, Baioes, Borges. I've printed the pages off to try and make > >> sense of them as most don't have any page numbers and it doesn't > >> appear to be in alphabetical order. > >> > >> > >> > >> Janette > >> > >> > >> On 19-Dec-09, at 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> > >>> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >>> Thanks, > >>> David DeGrella > >>> Tennessee, USA > >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> writes: > >>>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & > >>>> Mendonca > >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, > >>>> seems > >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, > >>>> and > >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > >>>> going > >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>>> thanks > >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to > >>>> check > >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was > >>>>> a > > >>>>> field day > >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>> to Pereira d'Agrela. > >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>>> Travassos m. > >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>>> manifests 2 or > >>>>> three generations later. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. > >>>>>> I'm > >>>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, > >>>>>> but > >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>>> Janette > >>> > >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>> > >>>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>> Castro > >>>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>> case > >>>>>>> he was > >>>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >>>> it was > >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>> particular > >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>> sent me > >>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>> > >>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, > >>>>>>>>> You > >>> have > >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > >>>>>>>>> Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Once I > >>>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose > >>>>>>>>> alcunha > >>> > >>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of > >>>>>>>>> Porto > >>> Santo prison. > >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>> job? > >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. > >>>>>>>>> answer- > >>> Idon't > >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>> friend, > >>>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very > >>>>>>>>> small > >>> in stature, but not in dignity. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Miguel > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] > >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > >>> the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Dear Miguel and Luis, Thank you both... I just read Luis' posting with the web address for the files...I'm going to download the files to disc... I still have some 50 e-mails that I need to read, and of course true to my Madeira Alcunha of Papagaio/a I'll being adding my comments... ;-)). Abs, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:03:22 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela Yes, Pat, that's the same file or files that my cousin Maria do Monte sent to Portugal-gen. However some days ago Luis posted a link in which there is that file and are more elements. Actually it consists of 5 or more books. Some have Part I and Part II-. All are handwritten. But they are easy to read. Now that you have a new computer it won't take that much. PA is indispensable, Miguel On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Miguel, > > Do you recall if this is the file/works that FAD or someone on the > Portuguese List actually scanned and made it available to list members for > downloading...?? > I recall a very large file, that took me days to download, but for the life > of me I can't put my hands on it now... I think it's the same file that I > sent to Janette. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janette Chun" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 2:36:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > Thank goodness some of these survived. And thankfully, there are still > people interested in preserving history. > > I keep hoping (call me an optimist) that there will be an > archeological discovery that will answer so many of our questions : ) > > Janette > On 20-Dec-09, at 5:54 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Pereira d'Agrella work is a manuscript. It has several tomes, and > > perhaps > > 700 pages or more. I have not counted them. It is an interesting work > > because it takes a broad view of some families that usually are not > > referred > > in the other nobiliaries. It is a nobiliary. Pereira de Agrela had > > the > > chance to see several documents that since him were lost, ruined or > > eaten by > > mice, moth, worms, and human carelessness (the worst and more > > damaging). > > Old documents could stay in damp places for ages. Some miraculously > > survived > > but many disappeared. And the worst thing is that many disappeared > > or were > > ruined due to lack of care during the 19 th century . Older people > > respected > > a bit more the written documents. But with the emergence of print, > > old stuff > > was groovy, old was outdated, considered rubish, except by some few > > like > > Pereira d'Agrela. > > His g-gdaughter, an extremely generous person, told me several > > things about > > his ancestor. Curiously since him all the Agrellas have devoted > > themselves > > to genealogy until our days, where their representative - my > > cousin- is > > still investigating. > > > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> He was a genealogist in Madeira during the 1700s. > >> > >> The title page on the extract I have is: Genealogias da ilha da > >> Madeira por Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella. (Este autor nasceu em > >> mais de 1777 no Funchal, onde morreu em fevereiro de 1835). It's all > >> in script, so I hope I've read that correctly. Loosely translated it > >> says Genealogies of the Island of Madeira by Joao Agostinho Pereira > >> d'Agrela. (This author was born before 1777 in Funchal where he died > >> in February 1835). > >> > >> I have no idea how extensive his volume of work is - as mentioned I > >> only have 33 pages (that I know of : ) - but Miguel makes reference > >> to > >> pg 166, so my guess - extensive. I also don't know if this is > >> available anywhere online. I will look to see if I have any more > >> files that might complete this volume. I'm happy to share what I > >> have > >> on this particular genealogist if anyone is interested, please email > >> me at [email protected] At this stage, it looks like the Aguares > >> de Machico, Garros, Ferreiras de Arco, Pereiras das Florencas, > >> Agrellas, Baioes, Borges. I've printed the pages off to try and make > >> sense of them as most don't have any page numbers and it doesn't > >> appear to be in alphabetical order. > >> > >> > >> > >> Janette > >> > >> > >> On 19-Dec-09, at 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> > >>> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >>> Thanks, > >>> David DeGrella > >>> Tennessee, USA > >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> writes: > >>>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & > >>>> Mendonca > >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, > >>>> seems > >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, > >>>> and > >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > >>>> going > >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>>> thanks > >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to > >>>> check > >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was > >>>>> a > > >>>>> field day > >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>> to Pereira d'Agrela. > >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>>> Travassos m. > >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>>> manifests 2 or > >>>>> three generations later. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. > >>>>>> I'm > >>>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, > >>>>>> but > >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>>> Janette > >>> > >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>> > >>>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>> Castro > >>>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>> case > >>>>>>> he was > >>>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >>>> it was > >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>> particular > >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>> sent me > >>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>> > >>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, > >>>>>>>>> You > >>> have > >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > >>>>>>>>> Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Once I > >>>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose > >>>>>>>>> alcunha > >>> > >>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of > >>>>>>>>> Porto > >>> Santo prison. > >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>> job? > >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. > >>>>>>>>> answer- > >>> Idon't > >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>> friend, > >>>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very > >>>>>>>>> small > >>> in stature, but not in dignity. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Miguel