hey miguel, do u have the ancestors of leonor caldeira (other than her parents?)? i also dont have the parents of alvaro gomes cabral unfortunately :( cece is not directly linked with this andre franca, i think. leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:43:42 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: You have to look for baptism certificates. And work the ascendancies. The line of FVs you've just posted is also mine and Cece's too, I believe. Since all the others are relatively well known - Leonor Caldeira, for instance, is the daughter of Josè Caldeira and Maria Lourenço, who founded the Capela do Rosário, and left a "Vínculo") I am interested in Álvaro Gomes Cabral. I don't know from where does his Cabral name comes from. But probably from the old Cabrais. And the Cabrais are an interesting lineage - remember Pedro Álvares Cabral? On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:24 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > hi miguel, > > funny enough i am linked with andre de franca and his wife leonor thru his > dau francisca franca de vasconcelos married with francisco gois de > carvalho. Their dau branca franca de vasconcelos married antonio vieira de > vasconcelos. they had a son francisco gois de carvalho married leonor > caldeira in s > vicente. aparently this is my first ancestor from this family coming from > machico to sao vicente. they had a daughter francisca maria that married > alvaro gomes de cabral. their son francisco gois de carvalho married maria > francisca. Their son Alvaro gomes married maria dias. their children used > other surnames rather than franca, vasconcelos or gois > > the question is...where can i find the link between maria de franca and the > vasconcelos de franca? i know that as i showed above i come from them, but > thru another link. > > any ideas??? > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:10:32 Romance Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > mmmm. When I first saw Antònio's son name I thought it might came from > him. But on second thoughts, no. A Vasconcelos would use Vasconcelos, not > the Mendes. There were loads of Mendes, and it's a patronymic. Not that > many > Vasconcelos - one of the "biggest" name you could have in Madeira at that > time. > > So the Vasconcelos almost for sure comes from the mother (as well as the > França - and that happened a lot, a son adopting both his mother's names, > if > they were better than his father's). > > In that case the França de Vasconcelos - in your case as well as in Lou's > - comes very probably from André de França m. D. Leonor de Vasconcelos. > He > son, of João de França and Inês Pires (Escócia) and he g.son of the first > Great and Illustrious Vasconcelos (one of the four Fidalgos sent by the > King > in answer to João Gonçalves Zarco's request) , Martim Mendes de > Vasconcelos > m. Helena Gonçalves da Cãmara. > > regards, > > Miguel > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > do u think that the husband of dona maria de franca could also be a > > vasconcelos? his name was antonio mendes? > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:32:37 Romance Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Ah, that (their son's name) changes the perspective. Either Amaro > Mendes > > was > > a Mendes de Vasconcelos, or more probably she was a França de > Vasconcelos. > > In which case her ascendancy is known. I'll try perhaps tomorrow or > so, > > to > > work that out. But I'm now rather inclined to see Maria de França as a > > França e Vasconcelos, because of her son's name. > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > i dont have the docs. Just saw once on the microfilms the certificate > of > > > her son's wedding jose franca de vasconcelos with my direct ancestor > > maria > > > telo de meneses in 1728 in sao vicente :( > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:16:47 Romance Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > as she is a "Dona" chances are she is really from the Franças. The > > Franças > > > were on their rise. They became one of the most powerful families in > > > Madeira. Lords of I don't know how many morgadios. I am also > descended > > for > > > them, unfortunately not from the more fortunate trunks who > inherited > > the > > > lands. The system of morgadio had no pity for second, third, and > fourth > > > sons. > > > > > > Who are the witness or "padrinhos" in that document? > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Miguel.... > > > > > > > > im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have antonio > > mendes > > > > married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the > > precise > > > date) > > > > but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help > me > > with > > > > that > > > > please? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > > > > > > > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some > > > Brasões > > > > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you > explored > > his > > > > line? > > > > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > > > > > > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, > > marriage > > > not > > > > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira > > Brava, > > > 16 > > > > > Sept > > > > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira > > Brava, > > > 27 > > > > Aug > > > > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > > > > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) > (Sao > > > > Vicente, > > > > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > > > > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 > Sept > > 1696 > > > – > > > > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > > > > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 > June > > > 1735 > > > > > – > > > > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > > > > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de > Agua, > > 20 > > > Feb > > > > > 1770 > > > > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > > > > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, > 30 > > Jan > > > > 1815 > > > > > – > > > > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > > > > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de > Agua, > > 9 > > > > July > > > > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > > > > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da > Conceicao(9) > > > Serra > > > > de > > > > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > > > > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa > da > > > Camara > > > > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > > > > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts > > > USA, 9 > > > > > April 1939) > > > > > > > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest > (Lowell, > > > > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > > > > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois > > (Lowell, > > > > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also > > > descendant > > > > of > > > > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard > Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > > > > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel > > > Pereira > > > > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor > > > homem. > > > > > > > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao > anes. > > > But > > > > pat > > > > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with > > francisco > > > > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard > > Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I > am a > > > > little > > > > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > > > > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe > Standard > > > Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > > > > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to > Leonor > > > Homem, > > > > > with > > > > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel > > and > > > Lou. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao > > Homem > > > (de > > > > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this > > thread. > > > > > > > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > > > > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started > my > > > > > genealogy > > > > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was > is > > not > > > > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia > da > > > Costa's > > > > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: > > Pintos... > > > > > Nothing > > > > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 > > US/Canada > > > > Pacific > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter > > called > > > INES > > > > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao > anes > > > and > > > > not > > > > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person > on > > > here? or > > > > > am i mistaken? > > > > > > > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email > > > [email protected] > > > > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho > please? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and > Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his > > baptismal > > > > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, > > list > > > his > > > > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from > there > > is > > > as > > > > > follows > > > > > > > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov > 26 > > 1584 > > > > > > > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira > Brava > > > May > > > > > 22 1560 > > > > > > > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina > > Pestana > > > > > > > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat > > > Corbera > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of > your > > > direct > > > > > line ancestors? > > > > > > > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line > > ancestors, > > > and > > > > if > > > > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother > Fernao > > > Ennes > > > > is > > > > > your ancestor... > > > > > > > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending > > order > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you > referenced > > > below? > > > > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the > couples' > > > names > > > > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you > get > > the > > > > Duarte > > > > > name from? > > > > > > > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a > parish, > > he > > > is > > > > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to > Francisco > > > > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book > > #389,Fl > > > 153) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 > > US/Canada > > > > Pacific > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will > > forever > > > be. > > > > > For us > > > > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say > totally > > > > expected > > > > > names > > > > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, > if > > not > > > all > > > > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by > many > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He > must be > > > from > > > > the > > > > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I > also > > > have > > > > > Homens > > > > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As > we > > > know > > > > > there > > > > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de > > Sousa, > > > > Homem > > > > > de > > > > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple > at > > all, > > > > > because a > > > > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three > > types). > > > > > > > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a > toponymic > > > taken > > > > > from > > > > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) > > are a > > > > very > > > > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of > his > > > marriage > > > > > to > > > > > Maria Lopes? > > > > > > > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has > a > > > Lopo > > > > as > > > > > ascendant. > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in > > learn > > > > mode > > > > > and > > > > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a > parish, > > he > > > is > > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > Rodrigues > > > Duarte > > > > > on 16 > > > > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their > > daughter > > > > Maria > > > > > Lopes > > > > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol > (book > > > #454, > > > > fl > > > > > 81) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > Miguel > > > de > > > > > Castro > > > > > > Henriques > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones > - I > > mean > > > > > typical > > > > > > names from these times. > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a > Drummond. > > > Any > > > > > Drummond > > > > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his > son > > or > > > > > daughter ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I > am > > > sending > > > > > them > > > > > > out > > > > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any > help > > or > > > hints > > > > are > > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, > dwelling: > > > Lugar > > > > de > > > > > Baixo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior > to > > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior > to > > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 > 1573 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is > > > > welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > without the > > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 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------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject 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No, unfortunately. Josè Caldeira and Maria Lourenço are the trunk of the Caldeiras of São Vicente. I don't know if they were noble, possibly. But they were certainly quite wealthy. They created that vínculo that was administered by Francisco de Góis de Carvalho. who was Capitão de Infantaria in freguesia de São Vicente. After, the administration of that Capela came to the Teixeiras Brasões. Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:45 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > hey miguel, > > do u have the ancestors of leonor caldeira (other than her parents?)? i > also dont have the parents of alvaro gomes cabral unfortunately :( > > cece is not directly linked with this andre franca, i think. > > leandro > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:43:42 Romance Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > You have to look for baptism certificates. And work the ascendancies. > > The line of FVs you've just posted is also mine and Cece's too, I believe. > Since all the others are relatively well known - Leonor Caldeira, for > instance, is the daughter of Josè Caldeira and Maria Lourenço, who > founded > the Capela do Rosário, and left a "Vínculo") I am interested in Álvaro > Gomes Cabral. I don't know from where does his Cabral name comes from. > But > probably from the old Cabrais. And the Cabrais are an interesting lineage > - > remember Pedro Álvares Cabral? > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:24 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > hi miguel, > > > > funny enough i am linked with andre de franca and his wife leonor thru > his > > dau francisca franca de vasconcelos married with francisco gois de > > carvalho. Their dau branca franca de vasconcelos married antonio vieira > de > > vasconcelos. they had a son francisco gois de carvalho married leonor > > caldeira in s > > vicente. aparently this is my first ancestor from this family coming > from > > machico to sao vicente. they had a daughter francisca maria that > married > > alvaro gomes de cabral. their son francisco gois de carvalho married > maria > > francisca. Their son Alvaro gomes married maria dias. their children > used > > other surnames rather than franca, vasconcelos or gois > > > > the question is...where can i find the link between maria de franca and > the > > vasconcelos de franca? i know that as i showed above i come from them, > but > > thru another link. > > > > any ideas??? > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:10:32 Romance Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > mmmm. When I first saw Antònio's son name I thought it might came from > > him. But on second thoughts, no. A Vasconcelos would use Vasconcelos, > not > > the Mendes. There were loads of Mendes, and it's a patronymic. Not that > > many > > Vasconcelos - one of the "biggest" name you could have in Madeira at > that > > time. > > > > So the Vasconcelos almost for sure comes from the mother (as well as > the > > França - and that happened a lot, a son adopting both his mother's > names, > > if > > they were better than his father's). > > > > In that case the França de Vasconcelos - in your case as well as in > Lou's > > - comes very probably from André de França m. D. Leonor de > Vasconcelos. > > He > > son, of João de França and Inês Pires (Escócia) and he g.son of the > first > > Great and Illustrious Vasconcelos (one of the four Fidalgos sent by the > > King > > in answer to João Gonçalves Zarco's request) , Martim Mendes de > > Vasconcelos > > m. Helena Gonçalves da Cãmara. > > > > regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > do u think that the husband of dona maria de franca could also be a > > > vasconcelos? his name was antonio mendes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:32:37 Romance Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Ah, that (their son's name) changes the perspective. Either Amaro > > Mendes > > > was > > > a Mendes de Vasconcelos, or more probably she was a França de > > Vasconcelos. > > > In which case her ascendancy is known. I'll try perhaps tomorrow or > > so, > > > to > > > work that out. But I'm now rather inclined to see Maria de França as > a > > > França e Vasconcelos, because of her son's name. > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > > > i dont have the docs. Just saw once on the microfilms the > certificate > > of > > > > her son's wedding jose franca de vasconcelos with my direct > ancestor > > > maria > > > > telo de meneses in 1728 in sao vicente :( > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:16:47 Romance Standard Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > > > as she is a "Dona" chances are she is really from the Franças. > The > > > Franças > > > > were on their rise. They became one of the most powerful families > in > > > > Madeira. Lords of I don't know how many morgadios. I am also > > descended > > > for > > > > them, unfortunately not from the more fortunate trunks who > > inherited > > > the > > > > lands. The system of morgadio had no pity for second, third, and > > fourth > > > > sons. > > > > > > > > Who are the witness or "padrinhos" in that document? > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Miguel.... > > > > > > > > > > im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have > antonio > > > mendes > > > > > married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the > > > precise > > > > date) > > > > > but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help > > me > > > with > > > > > that > > > > > please? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to > some > > > > Brasões > > > > > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you > > explored > > > his > > > > > line? > > > > > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > > > > > > > > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III > > <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, > > > marriage > > > > not > > > > > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira > > > Brava, > > > > 16 > > > > > > Sept > > > > > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) > (Ribeira > > > Brava, > > > > 27 > > > > > Aug > > > > > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) > > (Sao > > > > > Vicente, > > > > > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 > > Sept > > > 1696 > > > > – > > > > > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, > 13 > > June > > > > 1735 > > > > > > – > > > > > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de > > Agua, > > > 20 > > > > Feb > > > > > > 1770 > > > > > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de > Agua, > > 30 > > > Jan > > > > > 1815 > > > > > > – > > > > > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > > > > > > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de > > Agua, > > > 9 > > > > > July > > > > > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > > > > > > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da > > Conceicao(9) > > > > Serra > > > > > de > > > > > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > > > > > > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de > Sousa > > da > > > > Camara > > > > > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > > > > > > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, > Massachusetts > > > > USA, 9 > > > > > > April 1939) > > > > > > > > > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest > > (Lowell, > > > > > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > > > > > > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois > > > (Lowell, > > > > > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im > also > > > > descendant > > > > > of > > > > > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > > > > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe > Standard > > Time, > > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > > > > > > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and > Isabel > > > > Pereira > > > > > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and > leonor > > > > homem. > > > > > > > > > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao > > anes. > > > > But > > > > > pat > > > > > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with > > > francisco > > > > > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe > Standard > > > Time, > > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry > I > > am a > > > > > little > > > > > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and > Lou) > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe > > Standard > > > > Time, > > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > > > > > > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to > > Leonor > > > > Homem, > > > > > > with > > > > > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention > Miguel > > > and > > > > Lou. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are > Joao > > > Homem > > > > (de > > > > > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to > this > > > thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > > > > > > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first > started > > my > > > > > > genealogy > > > > > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what > was > > is > > > not > > > > > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de > Atouguia > > da > > > > Costa's > > > > > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: > > > Pintos... > > > > > > Nothing > > > > > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 > > > US/Canada > > > > > Pacific > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and > Lou) > > > > > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a > daughter > > > called > > > > INES > > > > > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to > fernao > > anes > > > > and > > > > > not > > > > > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same > person > > on > > > > here? or > > > > > > am i mistaken? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho > > please? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and > > Lou) > > > > > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his > > > baptismal > > > > > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. > Mello, > > > list > > > > his > > > > > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from > > there > > > is > > > > as > > > > > > follows > > > > > > > > > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava > Nov > > 26 > > > 1584 > > > > > > > > > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira > > Brava > > > > May > > > > > > 22 1560 > > > > > > > > > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + > Catarina > > > Pestana > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Pat > > > > Corbera > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and > Lou) > > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of > > your > > > > direct > > > > > > line ancestors? > > > > > > > > > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line > > > ancestors, > > > > and > > > > > if > > > > > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's > brother > > Fernao > > > > Ennes > > > > > is > > > > > > your ancestor... > > > > > > > > > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the > descending > > > order > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you > > referenced > > > > below? > > > > > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the > > couples' > > > > names > > > > > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you > > get > > > the > > > > > Duarte > > > > > > name from? > > > > > > > > > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a > > parish, > > > he > > > > is > > > > > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to > > Francisco > > > > > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book > > > #389,Fl > > > > 153) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 > > > US/Canada > > > > > Pacific > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and > will > > > forever > > > > be. > > > > > > For us > > > > > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say > > totally > > > > > expected > > > > > > names > > > > > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of > them, > > if > > > not > > > > all > > > > > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by > > many > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He > > must be > > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. > I > > also > > > > have > > > > > > Homens > > > > > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same > family. As > > we > > > > know > > > > > > there > > > > > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem > de > > > Sousa, > > > > > Homem > > > > > > de > > > > > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so > simple > > at > > > all, > > > > > > because a > > > > > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other > three > > > types). > > > > > > > > > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a > > toponymic > > > > taken > > > > > > from > > > > > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens > (plural) > > > are a > > > > > very > > > > > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness > of > > his > > > > marriage > > > > > > to > > > > > > Maria Lopes? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria > has > > a > > > > Lopo > > > > > as > > > > > > ascendant. > > > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III < > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still > in > > > learn > > > > > mode > > > > > > and > > > > > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if > at > > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a > > parish, > > > he > > > > is > > > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > > Rodrigues > > > > Duarte > > > > > > on 16 > > > > > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their > > > daughter > > > > > Maria > > > > > > Lopes > > > > > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol > > (book > > > > #454, > > > > > fl > > > > > > 81) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > Miguel > > > > de > > > > > > Castro > > > > > > > Henriques > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal > ones > > - I > > > mean > > > > > > typical > > > > > > > names from these times. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > > > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a > > Drummond. > > > > Any > > > > > > Drummond > > > > > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or > his > > son > > > or > > > > > > daughter ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so > I > > am > > > > sending > > > > > > them > > > > > > > out > > > > > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any > > help > > > or > > > > hints > > > > > are > > > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, > > dwelling: > > > > Lugar > > > > > de > > > > > > Baixo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? > Prior > > to > > > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not > recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? > Prior > > to > > > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 > > 1573 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 > 1580 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything > is > > > > > welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > > > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > > without the > > > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > without > > > > > > the > > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > without > > > > > > the > > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > without > > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Leandro is correct...this Franca line is not mine...YET! My direct Franca are Ornelas e Franca to Lemos e Franca and I've yet to figure out where my Lemos got his Franca ;-) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Franca hey miguel, do u have the ancestors of leonor caldeira (other than her parents?)? i also dont have the parents of alvaro gomes cabral unfortunately :( cece is not directly linked with this andre franca, i think. leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:43:42 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: You have to look for baptism certificates. And work the ascendancies. The line of FVs you've just posted is also mine and Cece's too, I believe. Since all the others are relatively well known - Leonor Caldeira, for instance, is the daughter of Josè Caldeira and Maria Lourenço, who founded the Capela do Rosário, and left a "Vínculo") I am interested in Álvaro Gomes Cabral. I don't know from where does his Cabral name comes from. But probably from the old Cabrais. And the Cabrais are an interesting lineage - remember Pedro Álvares Cabral? On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:24 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > hi miguel, > > funny enough i am linked with andre de franca and his wife leonor thru his > dau francisca franca de vasconcelos married with francisco gois de > carvalho. Their dau branca franca de vasconcelos married antonio vieira de > vasconcelos. they had a son francisco gois de carvalho married leonor > caldeira in s > vicente. aparently this is my first ancestor from this family coming from > machico to sao vicente. they had a daughter francisca maria that married > alvaro gomes de cabral. their son francisco gois de carvalho married maria > francisca. Their son Alvaro gomes married maria dias. their children used > other surnames rather than franca, vasconcelos or gois > > the question is...where can i find the link between maria de franca and the > vasconcelos de franca? i know that as i showed above i come from them, but > thru another link. > > any ideas??? > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:10:32 Romance Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > mmmm. When I first saw Antònio's son name I thought it might came from > him. But on second thoughts, no. A Vasconcelos would use Vasconcelos, not > the Mendes. There were loads of Mendes, and it's a patronymic. Not that > many > Vasconcelos - one of the "biggest" name you could have in Madeira at that > time. > > So the Vasconcelos almost for sure comes from the mother (as well as the > França - and that happened a lot, a son adopting both his mother's names, > if > they were better than his father's). > > In that case the França de Vasconcelos - in your case as well as in Lou's > - comes very probably from André de França m. D. Leonor de Vasconcelos. > He > son, of João de França and Inês Pires (Escócia) and he g.son of the first > Great and Illustrious Vasconcelos (one of the four Fidalgos sent by the > King > in answer to João Gonçalves Zarco's request) , Martim Mendes de > Vasconcelos > m. Helena Gonçalves da Cãmara. > > regards, > > Miguel > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > do u think that the husband of dona maria de franca could also be a > > vasconcelos? his name was antonio mendes? > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:32:37 Romance Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Ah, that (their son's name) changes the perspective. Either Amaro > Mendes > > was > > a Mendes de Vasconcelos, or more probably she was a França de > Vasconcelos. > > In which case her ascendancy is known. I'll try perhaps tomorrow or > so, > > to > > work that out. But I'm now rather inclined to see Maria de França as a > > França e Vasconcelos, because of her son's name. > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > i dont have the docs. Just saw once on the microfilms the certificate > of > > > her son's wedding jose franca de vasconcelos with my direct ancestor > > maria > > > telo de meneses in 1728 in sao vicente :( > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:16:47 Romance Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > as she is a "Dona" chances are she is really from the Franças. The > > Franças > > > were on their rise. They became one of the most powerful families in > > > Madeira. Lords of I don't know how many morgadios. I am also > descended > > for > > > them, unfortunately not from the more fortunate trunks who > inherited > > the > > > lands. The system of morgadio had no pity for second, third, and > fourth > > > sons. > > > > > > Who are the witness or "padrinhos" in that document? > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Miguel.... > > > > > > > > im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have antonio > > mendes > > > > married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the > > precise > > > date) > > > > but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help > me > > with > > > > that > > > > please? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > > > > > > > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some > > > Brasões > > > > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you > explored > > his > > > > line? > > > > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > > > > > > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, > > marriage > > > not > > > > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira > > Brava, > > > 16 > > > > > Sept > > > > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira > > Brava, > > > 27 > > > > Aug > > > > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > > > > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) > (Sao > > > > Vicente, > > > > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > > > > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 > Sept > > 1696 > > > – > > > > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > > > > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 > June > > > 1735 > > > > > – > > > > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > > > > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de > Agua, > > 20 > > > Feb > > > > > 1770 > > > > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > > > > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, > 30 > > Jan > > > > 1815 > > > > > – > > > > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > > > > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de > Agua, > > 9 > > > > July > > > > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > > > > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da > Conceicao(9) > > > Serra > > > > de > > > > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > > > > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa > da > > > Camara > > > > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > > > > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts > > > USA, 9 > > > > > April 1939) > > > > > > > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest > (Lowell, > > > > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > > > > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois > > (Lowell, > > > > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also > > > descendant > > > > of > > > > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard > Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > > > > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel > > > Pereira > > > > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor > > > homem. > > > > > > > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao > anes. > > > But > > > > pat > > > > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with > > francisco > > > > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard > > Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I > am a > > > > little > > > > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > > > > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe > Standard > > > Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > > > > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to > Leonor > > > Homem, > > > > > with > > > > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel > > and > > > Lou. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao > > Homem > > > (de > > > > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this > > thread. > > > > > > > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > > > > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started > my > > > > > genealogy > > > > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was > is > > not > > > > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia > da > > > Costa's > > > > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: > > Pintos... > > > > > Nothing > > > > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 > > US/Canada > > > > Pacific > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter > > called > > > INES > > > > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao > anes > > > and > > > > not > > > > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person > on > > > here? or > > > > > am i mistaken? > > > > > > > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email > > > [email protected] > > > > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho > please? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and > Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his > > baptismal > > > > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, > > list > > > his > > > > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from > there > > is > > > as > > > > > follows > > > > > > > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov > 26 > > 1584 > > > > > > > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira > Brava > > > May > > > > > 22 1560 > > > > > > > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina > > Pestana > > > > > > > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat > > > Corbera > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of > your > > > direct > > > > > line ancestors? > > > > > > > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line > > ancestors, > > > and > > > > if > > > > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother > Fernao > > > Ennes > > > > is > > > > > your ancestor... > > > > > > > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending > > order > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you > referenced > > > below? > > > > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the > couples' > > > names > > > > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you > get > > the > > > > Duarte > > > > > name from? > > > > > > > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a > parish, > > he > > > is > > > > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to > Francisco > > > > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book > > #389,Fl > > > 153) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 > > US/Canada > > > > Pacific > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will > > forever > > > be. > > > > > For us > > > > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say > totally > > > > expected > > > > > names > > > > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, > if > > not > > > all > > > > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by > many > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He > must be > > > from > > > > the > > > > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I > also > > > have > > > > > Homens > > > > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As > we > > > know > > > > > there > > > > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de > > Sousa, > > > > Homem > > > > > de > > > > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple > at > > all, > > > > > because a > > > > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three > > types). > > > > > > > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a > toponymic > > > taken > > > > > from > > > > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) > > are a > > > > very > > > > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of > his > > > marriage > > > > > to > > > > > Maria Lopes? > > > > > > > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has > a > > > Lopo > > > > as > > > > > ascendant. > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in > > learn > > > > mode > > > > > and > > > > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a > parish, > > he > > > is > > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > Rodrigues > > > Duarte > > > > > on 16 > > > > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their > > daughter > > > > Maria > > > > > Lopes > > > > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol > (book > > > #454, > > > > fl > > > > > 81) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > Miguel > > > de > > > > > Castro > > > > > > Henriques > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones > - I > > mean > > > > > typical > > > > > > names from these times. > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a > Drummond. > > > Any > > > > > Drummond > > > > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his > son > > or > > > > > daughter ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I > am > > > sending > > > > > them > > > > > > out > > > > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any > help > > or > > > hints > > > > are > > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, > dwelling: > > > Lugar > > > > de > > > > > Baixo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior > to > > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior > to > > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 > 1573 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is > > > > welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > without the > > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/06/09 07:30:00