Miguel etal., With all the talk of the founding families and history of Madeira etc., can you suggest a reading list that will enlighten me? Also how readily available are the genealogical works that you all mention so often, Clode, HHN etc. If not available in hard copy what about on the net. Thank you for all the wonderful education and enlightenment on my ancestors. Cheers, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had some status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade line. I think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel, > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and yes > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. > > Cheers, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lou, > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his line? > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage not > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, 16 > > Sept > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, 27 > Aug > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao > Vicente, > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June > 1735 > > – > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 Feb > > 1770 > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan > 1815 > > – > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 > July > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra de > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da Camara > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, 9 > > April 1939) > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant > of > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > thank you > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But > pat > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > To: prt-m[email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > Thank you > > > > Leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, > > with > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > > genealogy > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... > > Nothing > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Pat, > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and > not > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or > > am i mistaken? > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > > > Thank you > > > > Leandro > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Pat, > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as > > follows > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May > > 22 1560 > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Miguel, > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct > > line ancestors? > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes > is > > your ancestor... > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order > from > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > Pat > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the > Duarte > > name from? > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Lou, > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. > > For us > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > > names > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from > the > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > > Homens > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > > there > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > Homem > > de > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > > because a > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > > from > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > Best regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage > > to > > Maria Lopes? > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo > as > > ascendant. > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Miguel > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > > and > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > mentioned > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte > > on 16 > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter > Maria > > Lopes > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, > fl > > 81) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > Castro > > > Henriques > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > typical > > > names from these times. > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > > Drummond > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > daughter ? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > them > > > out > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > are > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > > Baixo > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lou, I think that the best introduction to genealogy is History. To set the families in contrast with their times and societies one should have an historical background. So the first book that I suggest you and everyone to read is a book of Portuguese History. I would recommend "The First Global Village" (How Portugal changed the World) by Martin Page, Editorial Notícias. Maybe you can get it by Amazon. "Portugal is Europe's south-western extremity washed by the Atlantic and warmed by the Mediterranean sun. Alone among Iberia's ancient kingdoms, it is a nation half the size of Florida, with two-thirds the population. Yet over centuries, it has influenced the lives of the rest of us far more than many larger and more powerful countries." "Martin Page provides a fresh perspective on a fascinating country. The First Global Village is an enthralling narrative. (Peter Wise, the Financial Times) "Martin Page is full of live" (The New Yorker) Once you got the general picture of Portuguese history and its action over the whole world, as a madeiran descendant you should read something about Madeira history. There are several Portuguese and Foreign authors who wrote about Madeira. You can find on Alberto Vieira's site lots of books about Madeira. The ones I have at my hand here are all Portuguese. But it would be a necessary instrument for any madeiran descendant to constitute a small library with books about Madeira. And only then would I try to select some of the "genealogistas de referência." A study on our own roots of course is a study of ourselves, so genealogy ends up being a discipline of self-knowledge, and not some snobbish activity. I will come later to this matter, Cheers, Miguel On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel etal., > With all the talk of the founding families and history of Madeira etc., > can you suggest a reading list that will enlighten me? Also how readily > available are the genealogical works that you all mention so often, Clode, > HHN etc. If not available in hard copy what about on the net. Thank you > for > all the wonderful education and enlightenment on my ancestors. > > Cheers, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:11 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had some > status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade line. I > think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! > > regards, > > Miguel > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Miguel, > > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and yes > > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. > > > > Cheers, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > > Henriques > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões > > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his > line? > > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage > not > > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, 16 > > > Sept > > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, 27 > > Aug > > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao > > Vicente, > > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – > > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June > > 1735 > > > – > > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 Feb > > > 1770 > > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan > > 1815 > > > – > > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 > > July > > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra > de > > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da > Camara > > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, > 9 > > > April 1939) > > > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, > > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also > descendant > > of > > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira > > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. > > > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But > > pat > > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco > > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a > little > > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, > > > with > > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and > Lou. > > > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem > (de > > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. > > > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > > > genealogy > > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not > > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's > > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... > > > Nothing > > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called > INES > > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and > > not > > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? > or > > > am i mistaken? > > > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] > > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > Pat, > > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal > > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his > > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as > > > follows > > > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 > > > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava > May > > > 22 1560 > > > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana > > > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct > > > line ancestors? > > > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and > if > > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes > > is > > > your ancestor... > > > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order > > from > > > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? > > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' > names > > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the > > Duarte > > > name from? > > > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" < > [email protected] > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever > be. > > > For us > > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally > expected > > > names > > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not > all > > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from > > the > > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also > have > > > Homens > > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > > > there > > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > > Homem > > > de > > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > > > because a > > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > > > from > > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a > very > > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his > marriage > > > to > > > Maria Lopes? > > > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo > > as > > > ascendant. > > > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn > mode > > > and > > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > > mentioned > > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > Duarte > > > on 16 > > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter > > Maria > > > Lopes > > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, > > fl > > > 81) > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > > Castro > > > > Henriques > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > > typical > > > > names from these times. > > > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > > > Drummond > > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > > daughter ? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < > > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am > sending > > > them > > > > out > > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > > are > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar > de > > > Baixo > > > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is > welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Lou, Clode, HHN and Felisberto were available on-line, on the NESOS site. We are all waiting for that site to re-open. It had ALL the books ever published about Madeira. Elucidário Madeirense was on line on Alberto Vieira's site. I think. I have a copy of the first edition. For illustrious members of madeiran families you have Clode's "Registo bio-biliográfico de Madeirenses ilustres." My grand-father has the honour of being included. (As well as in the "Elucidário"). It is a good source for genealogical data, too. Elucidário madeirense, too, reports some of the more prominent and oldest families. And it is also a genealogical source. Ir refers the parishes, the first priests. And the oldest families who settled there and the names of the places. It has mistakes, of course. And some old families are not referred. But it is a must. For the moment, though it has mistakes, omissions, etc. and is a bit ideologically biased, you could also consult Padre Nunes Pereira, Ilhas de Zargo- It was on-line, the genealogical part at least. With many of the oldest families from Madeira. At one point we all connect with at least one or some or several of these oldest families. So, Ilhas de Zargo is also a must. BTW Pe. Nunes Pereira was closely related to my family. Well, I hope I have been of some help, Best regards, Miguel On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Lou, > > I think that the best introduction to genealogy is History. To set the > families in contrast with their times and societies one should have an > historical background. > > So the first book that I suggest you and everyone to read is a book of > Portuguese History. I would recommend "The First Global Village" (How > Portugal changed the World) by Martin Page, Editorial Notícias. Maybe you > can get it by Amazon. > > "Portugal is Europe's south-western extremity washed by the Atlantic and > warmed by the Mediterranean sun. Alone among Iberia's ancient kingdoms, it > is a nation half the size of Florida, with two-thirds the population. Yet > over centuries, it has influenced the lives of the rest of us far more than > many larger and more powerful countries." > > "Martin Page provides a fresh perspective on a fascinating country. The > First Global Village is an enthralling narrative. (Peter Wise, the Financial > Times) > > > "Martin Page is full of live" (The New Yorker) > > > Once you got the general picture of Portuguese history and its action over > the whole world, as a madeiran descendant you should read something about > Madeira history. There are several Portuguese and Foreign authors who wrote > about Madeira. You can find on Alberto Vieira's site lots of books about > Madeira. The ones I have at my hand here are all Portuguese. But it would be > a necessary instrument for any madeiran descendant to constitute a small > library with books about Madeira. > > > And only then would I try to select some of the "genealogistas de > referência." A study on our own roots of course is a study of ourselves, so > genealogy ends up being a discipline of self-knowledge, and not some > snobbish activity. > > > I will come later to this matter, > > > Cheers, > > Miguel > > > > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Miguel etal., >> With all the talk of the founding families and history of Madeira etc., >> can you suggest a reading list that will enlighten me? Also how readily >> available are the genealogical works that you all mention so often, Clode, >> HHN etc. If not available in hard copy what about on the net. Thank you >> for >> all the wonderful education and enlightenment on my ancestors. >> >> Cheers, >> Lou >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro >> Henriques >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:11 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> >> Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had >> some >> status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade line. >> I >> think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! >> >> regards, >> >> Miguel >> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > Miguel, >> > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and >> yes >> > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Lou >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro >> > Henriques >> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > >> > Hello Lou, >> > >> > >> > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões >> > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his >> line? >> > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. >> > >> > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Miguel >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage >> not >> > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) >> > > >> > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, >> 16 >> > > Sept >> > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) >> > > >> > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, >> 27 >> > Aug >> > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) >> > > >> > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao >> > Vicente, >> > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) >> > > >> > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – >> > > B#556, fl 63) >> > > >> > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June >> > 1735 >> > > – >> > > B#409, fl 24) >> > > >> > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 >> Feb >> > > 1770 >> > > – B#409, fl 79) >> > > >> > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan >> > 1815 >> > > – >> > > B#411, fl 8) >> > > >> > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 >> > July >> > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) >> > > >> > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra >> de >> > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) >> > > >> > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da >> Camara >> > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) >> > > >> > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, >> 9 >> > > April 1939) >> > > >> > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, >> > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) >> > > >> > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, >> > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also >> descendant >> > of >> > > the homem family in ribeira brava >> > > >> > > thank you >> > > >> > > leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > Leandro, >> > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain >> > > >> > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel >> Pereira >> > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) >> > > >> > > I hope that clears up the confusion. >> > > >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. >> > > >> > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But >> > pat >> > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco >> > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) >> > > >> > > leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > Leandro, >> > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a >> little >> > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. >> > > >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Thank you Pat >> > > >> > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? >> > > >> > > Thank you >> > > >> > > Leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > >> > > Leandro, >> > > >> > > Not sure if this is the same "person." >> > > >> > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor >> Homem, >> > > with >> > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and >> Lou. >> > > >> > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem >> (de >> > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. >> > > >> > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. >> > > >> > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... >> > > >> > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my >> > > genealogy >> > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not >> > > now...Frustrating to say the least. >> > > >> > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da >> Costa's >> > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... >> > > Nothing >> > > consent but the state of change...;-))). >> > > >> > > Pat >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >> > Pacific >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Pat, >> > > >> > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called >> INES >> > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and >> > not >> > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? >> or >> > > am i mistaken? >> > > >> > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] >> > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? >> > > >> > > Thank you >> > > >> > > Leandro >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Pat, >> > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal >> > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list >> his >> > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as >> > > follows >> > > >> > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 >> > > >> > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava >> May >> > > 22 1560 >> > > >> > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana >> > > >> > > Does this answer your questions? >> > > >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Miguel, >> > > >> > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your >> direct >> > > line ancestors? >> > > >> > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and >> if >> > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao >> Ennes >> > is >> > > your ancestor... >> > > >> > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order >> > from >> > > >> > > Fernao Ennes to you... >> > > >> > > >> > > Pat >> > > >> > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced >> below? >> > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' >> names >> > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the >> > Duarte >> > > name from? >> > > >> > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is >> > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >> > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" < >> [email protected] >> > > >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >> > Pacific >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > Lou, >> > > >> > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever >> be. >> > > For us >> > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >> expected >> > > names >> > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not >> all >> > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many >> people. >> > > >> > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from >> > the >> > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also >> have >> > > Homens >> > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know >> > > there >> > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, >> > Homem >> > > de >> > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, >> > > because a >> > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). >> > > >> > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken >> > > from >> > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a >> very >> > > ancient Portuguese family. >> > > >> > > >> > > Well, I hope I was of some help, >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > >> > > Miguel >> > > >> > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his >> marriage >> > > to >> > > Maria Lopes? >> > > >> > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo >> > as >> > > ascendant. >> > > >> > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected] >> > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn >> mode >> > > and >> > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >> is >> > > > mentioned >> > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues >> Duarte >> > > on 16 >> > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >> > > > >> > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >> > Maria >> > > Lopes >> > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book >> #454, >> > fl >> > > 81) >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > Lou >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > From: [email protected] >> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >> > > Castro >> > > > Henriques >> > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >> > > > To: [email protected] >> > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > > >> > > > Hello Lu, >> > > > >> > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >> > > typical >> > > > names from these times. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >> > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any >> > > Drummond >> > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >> > > daughter ? >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < >> > [email protected]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > All, >> > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am >> sending >> > > them >> > > > out >> > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or >> hints >> > are >> > > > > appreciated. >> > > > > >> > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar >> de >> > > Baixo >> > > > > >> > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to >> 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >> > > > > >> > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >> > > > > >> > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >> > > > > >> > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >> > > > > >> > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >> > > > > >> > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is >> welcomed. >> > > > > >> > > > > Lou >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > > without the >> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > the >> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > the >> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Lou, The "Registo Genealogico De Familias Que Passaram A Madeira by Luiz Peter Clode can be ordered and viewed at your local Family History Center of LDS, the film number is 1183626 Item #5. I thought this publication was online, but I couldn't find it today. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 9:53:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Clode, HHN and Felisberto were available on-line, on the NESOS site. We are all waiting for that site to re-open. It had ALL the books ever published about Madeira. Elucidário Madeirense was on line on Alberto Vieira's site. I think. I have a copy of the first edition. For illustrious members of madeiran families you have Clode's "Registo bio-biliográfico de Madeirenses ilustres." My grand-father has the honour of being included. (As well as in the "Elucidário"). It is a good source for genealogical data, too. Elucidário madeirense, too, reports some of the more prominent and oldest families. And it is also a genealogical source. Ir refers the parishes, the first priests. And the oldest families who settled there and the names of the places. It has mistakes, of course. And some old families are not referred. But it is a must. For the moment, though it has mistakes, omissions, etc. and is a bit ideologically biased, you could also consult Padre Nunes Pereira, Ilhas de Zargo- It was on-line, the genealogical part at least. With many of the oldest families from Madeira. At one point we all connect with at least one or some or several of these oldest families. So, Ilhas de Zargo is also a must. BTW Pe. Nunes Pereira was closely related to my family. Well, I hope I have been of some help, Best regards, Miguel On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Lou, > > I think that the best introduction to genealogy is History. To set the > families in contrast with their times and societies one should have an > historical background. > > So the first book that I suggest you and everyone to read is a book of > Portuguese History. I would recommend "The First Global Village" (How > Portugal changed the World) by Martin Page, Editorial Notícias. Maybe you > can get it by Amazon. > > "Portugal is Europe's south-western extremity washed by the Atlantic and > warmed by the Mediterranean sun. Alone among Iberia's ancient kingdoms, it > is a nation half the size of Florida, with two-thirds the population. Yet > over centuries, it has influenced the lives of the rest of us far more than > many larger and more powerful countries." > > "Martin Page provides a fresh perspective on a fascinating country. The > First Global Village is an enthralling narrative. (Peter Wise, the Financial > Times) > > > "Martin Page is full of live" (The New Yorker) > > > Once you got the general picture of Portuguese history and its action over > the whole world, as a madeiran descendant you should read something about > Madeira history. There are several Portuguese and Foreign authors who wrote > about Madeira. You can find on Alberto Vieira's site lots of books about > Madeira. The ones I have at my hand here are all Portuguese. But it would be > a necessary instrument for any madeiran descendant to constitute a small > library with books about Madeira. > > > And only then would I try to select some of the "genealogistas de > referência." A study on our own roots of course is a study of ourselves, so > genealogy ends up being a discipline of self-knowledge, and not some > snobbish activity. > > > I will come later to this matter, > > > Cheers, > > Miguel > > > > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Miguel etal., >> With all the talk of the founding families and history of Madeira etc., >> can you suggest a reading list that will enlighten me? Also how readily >> available are the genealogical works that you all mention so often, Clode, >> HHN etc. If not available in hard copy what about on the net. Thank you >> for >> all the wonderful education and enlightenment on my ancestors. >> >> Cheers, >> Lou >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro >> Henriques >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:11 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> >> Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had >> some >> status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade line. >> I >> think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! >> >> regards, >> >> Miguel >> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > Miguel, >> > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and >> yes >> > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Lou >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro >> > Henriques >> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > >> > Hello Lou, >> > >> > >> > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões >> > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his >> line? >> > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. >> > >> > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Miguel >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage >> not >> > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) >> > > >> > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, >> 16 >> > > Sept >> > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) >> > > >> > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, >> 27 >> > Aug >> > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) >> > > >> > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao >> > Vicente, >> > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) >> > > >> > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – >> > > B#556, fl 63) >> > > >> > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June >> > 1735 >> > > – >> > > B#409, fl 24) >> > > >> > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 >> Feb >> > > 1770 >> > > – B#409, fl 79) >> > > >> > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan >> > 1815 >> > > – >> > > B#411, fl 8) >> > > >> > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 >> > July >> > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) >> > > >> > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra >> de >> > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) >> > > >> > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da >> Camara >> > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) >> > > >> > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, >> 9 >> > > April 1939) >> > > >> > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, >> > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) >> > > >> > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, >> > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also >> descendant >> > of >> > > the homem family in ribeira brava >> > > >> > > thank you >> > > >> > > leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > Leandro, >> > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain >> > > >> > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel >> Pereira >> > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) >> > > >> > > I hope that clears up the confusion. >> > > >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. >> > > >> > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But >> > pat >> > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco >> > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) >> > > >> > > leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > Leandro, >> > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a >> little >> > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. >> > > >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Thank you Pat >> > > >> > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? >> > > >> > > Thank you >> > > >> > > Leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > >> > > Leandro, >> > > >> > > Not sure if this is the same "person." >> > > >> > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor >> Homem, >> > > with >> > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and >> Lou. >> > > >> > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem >> (de >> > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. >> > > >> > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. >> > > >> > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... >> > > >> > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my >> > > genealogy >> > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not >> > > now...Frustrating to say the least. >> > > >> > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da >> Costa's >> > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... >> > > Nothing >> > > consent but the state of change...;-))). >> > > >> > > Pat >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >> > Pacific >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Pat, >> > > >> > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called >> INES >> > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and >> > not >> > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? >> or >> > > am i mistaken? >> > > >> > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] >> > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? >> > > >> > > Thank you >> > > >> > > Leandro >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Pat, >> > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal >> > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list >> his >> > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as >> > > follows >> > > >> > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 >> > > >> > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava >> May >> > > 22 1560 >> > > >> > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana >> > > >> > > Does this answer your questions? >> > > >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Miguel, >> > > >> > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your >> direct >> > > line ancestors? >> > > >> > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and >> if >> > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao >> Ennes >> > is >> > > your ancestor... >> > > >> > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order >> > from >> > > >> > > Fernao Ennes to you... >> > > >> > > >> > > Pat >> > > >> > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced >> below? >> > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' >> names >> > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the >> > Duarte >> > > name from? >> > > >> > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is >> > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >> > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" < >> [email protected] >> > > >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >> > Pacific >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > Lou, >> > > >> > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever >> be. >> > > For us >> > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >> expected >> > > names >> > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not >> all >> > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many >> people. >> > > >> > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from >> > the >> > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also >> have >> > > Homens >> > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know >> > > there >> > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, >> > Homem >> > > de >> > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, >> > > because a >> > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). >> > > >> > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken >> > > from >> > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a >> very >> > > ancient Portuguese family. >> > > >> > > >> > > Well, I hope I was of some help, >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > >> > > Miguel >> > > >> > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his >> marriage >> > > to >> > > Maria Lopes? >> > > >> > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo >> > as >> > > ascendant. >> > > >> > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected] >> > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn >> mode >> > > and >> > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >> is >> > > > mentioned >> > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues >> Duarte >> > > on 16 >> > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >> > > > >> > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >> > Maria >> > > Lopes >> > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book >> #454, >> > fl >> > > 81) >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > Lou >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > From: [email protected] >> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >> > > Castro >> > > > Henriques >> > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >> > > > To: [email protected] >> > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > > >> > > > Hello Lu, >> > > > >> > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >> > > typical >> > > > names from these times. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >> > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any >> > > Drummond >> > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >> > > daughter ? >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < >> > [email protected]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > All, >> > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am >> sending >> > > them >> > > > out >> > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or >> hints >> > are >> > > > > appreciated. >> > > > > >> > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar >> de >> > > Baixo >> > > > > >> > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to >> 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >> > > > > >> > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >> > > > > >> > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >> > > > > >> > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >> > > > > >> > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >> > > > > >> > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is >> welcomed. >> > > > > >> > > > > Lou >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > > without the >> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > the >> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > the >> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message