Leandro, Since I have to start somewhere here are my suggestions of corrections: Gabriel de Nóbrega married Francisca d'Ocanha and not Francisca de Cunha - It makes all the difference, the D'OCanhas orginate in João d'Ocanha, Escudeiro. It was one of the first families to settle in Madeira. Minor nobility, of Spanish origin. But they very early linked with the Câmaras, with Henriques Alemão, etc. check HHN, "Canhas." Mundos de Nóbrega and not Mendo de Nóbrega. It also makes all the difference, since he is probably the only Mundos of all history of Madeira and of Portugal. His name could be Edmundo, but he is known as Mundos. He is José Fernandes', as well as Cece's and mine too (and also other in this list) direct ancestor. In José's case "directissimo", since it comes via his mother. In mine through a maternal, gg. mother. Leonor Marchena and not Lenor Machina. (I had a discussion about this Marchena in this list w+ith prima Pat, long ago, if I am not wrong) And one question - how do you know that Maria Tello married with Frutuoso Pires, was a Maria Telo de Meneses? I mean she may be, she most probably is, but in António Fernandes CL marriage with Catarina Fernandes ( I have the document, and am a direct descendant) ) she appears only as Maria Tello. About Frutuoso Pires I am convinced he is Pires de Canha, or Pires d'Ocanha. Just intuition and because of the witness Francisco Martins de Canha and Hilário Rodrigues (another Canha in disguise, IMO)- Francisco martions de Canha was a descedant of João Pires de Canha. Check geneall. They copied it from HHN. So it's bound to be right. If you're interested will try to send you the ascendancy of Matias de Andrada (you already have him) , who links with the Noronhas of Caniço, and with Alfonso Henriques. Conde de Noroña y Gijón. (A colourful character, attacked Cascais, the famous Portuguese cosmopolitan tourist resort (The Portuguese Cannes or Nice). Was in war for years with his half-brother, who happened to be the King of Spain. Almost won the war. But finally lost it and was sent into exile to France. He lost his title, fortune, position, and he and his wife , Isabel of Portugal (illegitimate daughter of a Portuguese King) etc. led a life of poverty until their deaths. It was not a small loss since he was probably the second most powerful man in Spain and the chief of a considerable part of the titled nobility. His sons, because of their kinship with the Kin of Portugal all went to Portugal. Where they received nobility titles and married into the highest nobility. Since then, among the old genealogists, there is saying "quem não tem sangue de Noronha, não é da nobreza a valer." Who has no Noronha blood is not from the real nobility." Whatever. Our times are more democratic. But it's worth remembering the social and historical importance the Noronhas had. They were Vice-Roys in the Portuguese India, Counts of this and that, Marquis, Bishops, and had the right to use "Dom" before their name. (Dom is a short word for Dominus, in latin, Lord or Sir). So to sum up, after the Royal House there was the House of the Noronhas. And then,hmmmmm, the others. regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:40 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > hey Miguel, > > you are MORE THAN WELCOME to make suggestions and add new info. Actually, > not only you but all our cousins from the forum, which im so proud to be > related to. These cyber space is quite nice actually, it feels like a big > family. Thank you for your compliments and im looking forward to hear from > you > all. > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 17:30:40 Romance Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hi Leandro, > > > Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - it > shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't mind > if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? > Some > I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and documents. > > Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to > significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. > > Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was > Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the founding > fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel de > Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). It > seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since it's > medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL specialists > who > were these Freitas. > > Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz > "probably" > belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. But > I > don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they > descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. > Fernando. > (I was never able to confirm this title) > > Well, > > Once again congratulations and > > regards, > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > > > OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website > > > > hey guys, > > > > especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, > > > > I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ > > (http://teles.tribalpages.com) > > > > and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that > way > > would be easier to follow p how close we are related. > > > > let me know what you guys think > > > > thank u > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Lou, > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. > For > > us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally > expected > > names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not > > all > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from > the > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > > Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we > know > > there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > > Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at > all, > > because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three > types). > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > from > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > Best regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage > to > > Maria Lopes? > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as > > ascendant. > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Miguel > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > > > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > > > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria > > Lopes > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, > fl > > > 81) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > > Castro Henriques > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > > typical names from these times. > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > > Drummond > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > > daughter > > ? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > > > them > > > out > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > > > > are appreciated. > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > > Baixo > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: > 12/05/09 > > 08:13:00 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >