oops sorry for some spelling mistakes but the text shoot out before I could correct. Among others, this is funny the Kin of Portugal ; -) is obviously the King of Portugal. On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Leandro, > > Since I have to start somewhere here are my suggestions of corrections: > > Gabriel de Nóbrega married Francisca d'Ocanha and not Francisca de Cunha - > It makes all the difference, the D'OCanhas orginate in João d'Ocanha, > Escudeiro. It was one of the first families to settle in Madeira. Minor > nobility, of Spanish origin. But they very early linked with the Câmaras, > with Henriques Alemão, etc. check HHN, "Canhas." > > Mundos de Nóbrega and not Mendo de Nóbrega. It also makes all the > difference, since he is probably the only Mundos of all history of Madeira > and of Portugal. His name could be Edmundo, but he is known as Mundos. He is > José Fernandes', as well as Cece's and mine too (and also other in this > list) direct ancestor. In José's case "directissimo", since it comes via his > mother. In mine through a maternal, gg. mother. > > Leonor Marchena and not Lenor Machina. (I had a discussion about this > Marchena in this list w+ith prima Pat, long ago, if I am not wrong) > > And one question - how do you know that Maria Tello married with Frutuoso > Pires, was a Maria Telo de Meneses? > > I mean she may be, she most probably is, but in António Fernandes CL > marriage with Catarina Fernandes > ( I have the document, and am a direct descendant) ) she appears only as > Maria Tello. > About Frutuoso Pires I am convinced he is Pires de Canha, or Pires > d'Ocanha. Just intuition and because of the witness Francisco Martins de > Canha and Hilário Rodrigues (another Canha in disguise, IMO)- Francisco > martions de Canha was a descedant of João Pires de Canha. Check geneall. > They copied it from HHN. So it's bound to be right. > > If you're interested will try to send you the ascendancy of Matias de > Andrada (you already have him) , who links with the Noronhas of Caniço, and > with Alfonso Henriques. Conde de Noroña y Gijón. (A colourful character, > attacked Cascais, the famous Portuguese cosmopolitan tourist resort (The > Portuguese Cannes or Nice). Was in war for years with his half-brother, who > happened to be the King of Spain. Almost won the war. But finally lost it > and was sent into exile to France. He lost his title, fortune, position, and > he and his wife , Isabel of Portugal (illegitimate daughter of a Portuguese > King) etc. led a life of poverty until their deaths. It was not a small loss > since he was probably the second most powerful man in Spain and the chief of > a considerable part of the titled nobility. > > His sons, because of their kinship with the Kin of Portugal all went to > Portugal. Where they received nobility titles and married into the highest > nobility. Since then, among the old genealogists, there is saying "quem não > tem sangue de Noronha, não é da nobreza a valer." Who has no Noronha blood > is not from the real nobility." Whatever. Our times are more democratic. But > it's worth remembering the social and historical importance the Noronhas > had. They were Vice-Roys in the Portuguese India, Counts of this and that, > Marquis, Bishops, and had the right to use "Dom" before their name. (Dom is > a short word for Dominus, in latin, Lord or Sir). So to sum up, after the > Royal House there was the House of the Noronhas. > And then,hmmmmm, the others. > > > > regards, > > Miguel > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:40 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> hey Miguel, >> >> you are MORE THAN WELCOME to make suggestions and add new info. Actually, >> not only you but all our cousins from the forum, which im so proud to be >> related to. These cyber space is quite nice actually, it feels like a big >> family. Thank you for your compliments and im looking forward to hear >> from you >> all. >> >> Leandro >> >> >> In a message dated 06/12/2009 17:30:40 Romance Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Hi Leandro, >> >> >> Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - it >> shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't >> mind >> if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? >> Some >> I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and documents. >> >> Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to >> significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. >> >> Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was >> Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the founding >> fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel de >> Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). It >> seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since it's >> medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL specialists >> who >> were these Freitas. >> >> Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz >> "probably" >> belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. But >> I >> don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they >> descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. >> Fernando. >> (I was never able to confirm this title) >> >> Well, >> >> Once again congratulations and >> >> regards, >> >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website >> > >> > hey guys, >> > >> > especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, >> > >> > I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ >> > (http://teles.tribalpages.com) >> > >> > and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that >> way >> > would be easier to follow p how close we are related. >> > >> > let me know what you guys think >> > >> > thank u >> > >> > leandro >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > [email protected] writes: >> > >> > Lou, >> > >> > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. >> For >> > us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >> expected >> > names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if >> not >> > all >> > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. >> > >> > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from >> the >> > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have >> > Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we >> know >> > there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de >> Sousa, >> > Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at >> all, >> > because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three >> types). >> > >> > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken >> from >> > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very >> > ancient Portuguese family. >> > >> > >> > Well, I hope I was of some help, >> > >> > Best regards, >> > >> > Miguel >> > >> > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage >> to >> > Maria Lopes? >> > >> > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as >> > ascendant. >> > >> > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Miguel >> > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode >> > > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >> > > >> > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is >> > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >> Rodrigues >> > > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >> > > >> > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >> Maria >> > Lopes >> > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, >> fl >> > > 81) >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >> > > Castro Henriques >> > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > Hello Lu, >> > > >> > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >> > > typical names from these times. >> > > >> > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >> > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any >> > Drummond >> > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >> > > daughter >> > ? >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > >> > > Miguel >> > > >> > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected] >> > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > All, >> > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending >> > > > them >> > > out >> > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints >> > > > are appreciated. >> > > > >> > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de >> > Baixo >> > > > >> > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >> > > > >> > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > > >> > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >> > > > >> > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > > >> > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >> > > > >> > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >> > > > >> > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >> > > > >> > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >> > > > >> > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. >> > > > >> > > > Lou >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: >> 12/05/09 >> > 08:13:00 >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >