Pat thanks for the informaiton. I guess I will do my best and start to learn what I should have many years ago. Don L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > Don, > The publication that I noted, that's on film at LDS is in Portuguese. > > Before I started my research journey I could not read Portuguese, nor > speak it, let alone write it, but with the help of an > English-Portuguese/Portuguese-English Dictionary, the reading task became > easier. > > I do understand the spoken Portuguese, but I'm still working on my > conversational and written skills that I so badly lack. > > Do you speak/understand the spoken Portuguese? > > If you get "stumped," just post to this list group, so many helpful > individuals, so willing to help... > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 11:20:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Are any of these publications mentioned transcribed into English? > Tthat would be of great importance, when one can not read Portuguese. > Thanks, Don L > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "deepsea06" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:51 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > Miguel and Pat, > Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction. Beleive > it or not I have been working on this genealogy since 1985, both on > the Madeiran side and the Canadian side, it has been a journey and one > which I have enjoyed immensely, especially for the people I have come > to know along the way. Now begins my journey in understanding the > foundations from whence these people came. > > Cheers, > Lou > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > wrote: >> Lou, >> >> The "Registo Genealogico De Familias Que Passaram A Madeira by Luiz Peter >> Clode can be ordered and viewed at your local Family History Center of >> LDS, the film number is >> 1183626 Item #5. >> >> I thought this publication was online, but I couldn't find it today. >> >> Pat >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 9:53:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> >> Lou, >> >> Clode, HHN and Felisberto were available on-line, on the NESOS site. We >> are >> all waiting for that site to re-open. It had ALL the books ever published >> about Madeira. >> Elucidário Madeirense was on line on Alberto Vieira's site. I think. I >> have >> a copy of the first edition. >> >> For illustrious members of madeiran families you have Clode's "Registo >> bio-biliográfico de Madeirenses ilustres." My grand-father has the honour >> of >> being included. (As well as in the "Elucidário"). It is a good source for >> genealogical data, too. >> >> Elucidário madeirense, too, reports some of the more prominent and oldest >> families. And it is also a genealogical source. Ir refers the parishes, >> the >> first priests. And the oldest families who settled there and the names of >> the places. >> >> It has mistakes, of course. And some old families are not referred. But >> it >> is a must. >> >> For the moment, though it has mistakes, omissions, etc. and is a bit >> ideologically biased, you could also consult Padre Nunes Pereira, Ilhas >> de >> Zargo- It was on-line, the genealogical part at least. With many of the >> oldest families from Madeira. >> At one point we all connect with at least one or some or several of these >> oldest families. >> So, Ilhas de Zargo is also a must. >> >> BTW Pe. Nunes Pereira was closely related to my family. >> >> Well, I hope I have been of some help, >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Lou, >>> >>> I think that the best introduction to genealogy is History. To set the >>> families in contrast with their times and societies one should have an >>> historical background. >>> >>> So the first book that I suggest you and everyone to read is a book of >>> Portuguese History. I would recommend "The First Global Village" (How >>> Portugal changed the World) by Martin Page, Editorial Notícias. Maybe >>> you >>> can get it by Amazon. >>> >>> "Portugal is Europe's south-western extremity washed by the Atlantic and >>> warmed by the Mediterranean sun. Alone among Iberia's ancient kingdoms, >>> it >>> is a nation half the size of Florida, with two-thirds the population. >>> Yet >>> over centuries, it has influenced the lives of the rest of us far more >>> than >>> many larger and more powerful countries." >>> >>> "Martin Page provides a fresh perspective on a fascinating country. The >>> First Global Village is an enthralling narrative. (Peter Wise, the >>> Financial >>> Times) >>> >>> >>> "Martin Page is full of live" (The New Yorker) >>> >>> >>> Once you got the general picture of Portuguese history and its action >>> over >>> the whole world, as a madeiran descendant you should read something >>> about >>> Madeira history. There are several Portuguese and Foreign authors who >>> wrote >>> about Madeira. You can find on Alberto Vieira's site lots of books about >>> Madeira. The ones I have at my hand here are all Portuguese. But it >>> would >>> be >>> a necessary instrument for any madeiran descendant to constitute a small >>> library with books about Madeira. >>> >>> >>> And only then would I try to select some of the "genealogistas de >>> referência." A study on our own roots of course is a study of ourselves, >>> so >>> genealogy ends up being a discipline of self-knowledge, and not some >>> snobbish activity. >>> >>> >>> I will come later to this matter, >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Miguel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Miguel etal., >>>> With all the talk of the founding families and history of Madeira etc., >>>> can you suggest a reading list that will enlighten me? Also how readily >>>> available are the genealogical works that you all mention so often, >>>> Clode, >>>> HHN etc. If not available in hard copy what about on the net. Thank you >>>> for >>>> all the wonderful education and enlightenment on my ancestors. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Lou >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro >>>> Henriques >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:11 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> >>>> Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had >>>> some >>>> status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade >>>> line. >>>> I >>>> think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> >>>> Miguel >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Miguel, >>>> > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and >>>> yes >>>> > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. >>>> > >>>> > Cheers, >>>> > Lou >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: [email protected] >>>> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >>>> > Castro >>>> > Henriques >>>> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM >>>> > To: [email protected] >>>> > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > >>>> > Hello Lou, >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some >>>> > Brasões >>>> > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his >>>> line? >>>> > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. >>>> > >>>> > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? >>>> > >>>> > Regards, >>>> > >>>> > Miguel >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage >>>> not >>>> > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) >>>> > > >>>> > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, >>>> 16 >>>> > > Sept >>>> > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) >>>> > > >>>> > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, >>>> 27 >>>> > Aug >>>> > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) >>>> > > >>>> > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao >>>> > Vicente, >>>> > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) >>>> > > >>>> > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – >>>> > > B#556, fl 63) >>>> > > >>>> > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June >>>> > 1735 >>>> > > – >>>> > > B#409, fl 24) >>>> > > >>>> > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 >>>> Feb >>>> > > 1770 >>>> > > – B#409, fl 79) >>>> > > >>>> > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan >>>> > 1815 >>>> > > – >>>> > > B#411, fl 8) >>>> > > >>>> > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 >>>> > July >>>> > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) >>>> > > >>>> > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra >>>> de >>>> > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) >>>> > > >>>> > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da >>>> Camara >>>> > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) >>>> > > >>>> > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, >>>> 9 >>>> > > April 1939) >>>> > > >>>> > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, >>>> > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) >>>> > > >>>> > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, >>>> > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > > >>>> > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also >>>> descendant >>>> > of >>>> > > the homem family in ribeira brava >>>> > > >>>> > > thank you >>>> > > >>>> > > leandro >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>>> > > [email protected] writes: >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro, >>>> > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain >>>> > > >>>> > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel >>>> Pereira >>>> > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) >>>> > > >>>> > > I hope that clears up the confusion. >>>> > > >>>> > > Lou >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > > >>>> > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor >>>> > > homem. >>>> > > >>>> > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. >>>> > > But >>>> > pat >>>> > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco >>>> > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) >>>> > > >>>> > > leandro >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>>> > > [email protected] writes: >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro, >>>> > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a >>>> little >>>> > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. >>>> > > >>>> > > Lou >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>> > > [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>>> > > >>>> > > Thank you Pat >>>> > > >>>> > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? >>>> > > >>>> > > Thank you >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>>> > > [email protected] writes: >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro, >>>> > > >>>> > > Not sure if this is the same "person." >>>> > > >>>> > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor >>>> Homem, >>>> > > with >>>> > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and >>>> Lou. >>>> > > >>>> > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem >>>> (de >>>> > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. >>>> > > >>>> > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. >>>> > > >>>> > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... >>>> > > >>>> > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my >>>> > > genealogy >>>> > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not >>>> > > now...Frustrating to say the least. >>>> > > >>>> > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da >>>> Costa's >>>> > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... >>>> > > Nothing >>>> > > consent but the state of change...;-))). >>>> > > >>>> > > Pat >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>>> > Pacific >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>>> > > >>>> > > Pat, >>>> > > >>>> > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called >>>> INES >>>> > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and >>>> > not >>>> > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? >>>> or >>>> > > am i mistaken? >>>> > > >>>> > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email >>>> > > [email protected] >>>> > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? >>>> > > >>>> > > Thank you >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>>> > > >>>> > > Pat, >>>> > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal >>>> > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list >>>> his >>>> > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as >>>> > > follows >>>> > > >>>> > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 >>>> > > >>>> > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava >>>> May >>>> > > 22 1560 >>>> > > >>>> > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana >>>> > > >>>> > > Does this answer your questions? >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Regards, >>>> > > Lou >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>>> > > >>>> > > Miguel, >>>> > > >>>> > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your >>>> direct >>>> > > line ancestors? >>>> > > >>>> > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and >>>> if >>>> > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao >>>> Ennes >>>> > is >>>> > > your ancestor... >>>> > > >>>> > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order >>>> > from >>>> > > >>>> > > Fernao Ennes to you... >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Pat >>>> > > >>>> > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced >>>> below? >>>> > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' >>>> names >>>> > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the >>>> > Duarte >>>> > > name from? >>>> > > >>>> > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is >>>> > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >>>> > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" < >>>> [email protected] >>>> > > >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>>> > Pacific >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > > >>>> > > Lou, >>>> > > >>>> > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever >>>> be. >>>> > > For us >>>> > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >>>> expected >>>> > > names >>>> > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not >>>> all >>>> > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many >>>> people. >>>> > > >>>> > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from >>>> > the >>>> > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also >>>> have >>>> > > Homens >>>> > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know >>>> > > there >>>> > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, >>>> > Homem >>>> > > de >>>> > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, >>>> > > because a >>>> > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). >>>> > > >>>> > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken >>>> > > from >>>> > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a >>>> very >>>> > > ancient Portuguese family. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Well, I hope I was of some help, >>>> > > >>>> > > Best regards, >>>> > > >>>> > > Miguel >>>> > > >>>> > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his >>>> marriage >>>> > > to >>>> > > Maria Lopes? >>>> > > >>>> > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo >>>> > as >>>> > > ascendant. >>>> > > >>>> > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected] >>>> > >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > > Miguel >>>> > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn >>>> mode >>>> > > and >>>> > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >>>> is >>>> > > > mentioned >>>> > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues >>>> Duarte >>>> > > on 16 >>>> > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >>>> > Maria >>>> > > Lopes >>>> > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book >>>> #454, >>>> > fl >>>> > > 81) >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Regards, >>>> > > > Lou >>>> > > > >>>> > > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >>>> > > Castro >>>> > > > Henriques >>>> > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >>>> > > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Hello Lu, >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >>>> > > typical >>>> > > > names from these times. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >>>> > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any >>>> > > Drummond >>>> > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >>>> > > daughter ? >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Regards, >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Miguel >>>> > > > >>>> > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < >>>> > [email protected]> >>>> > > > wrote: >>>> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > All, >>>> > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am >>>> sending >>>> > > them >>>> > > > out >>>> > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or >>>> hints >>>> > are >>>> > > > > appreciated. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar >>>> de >>>> > > Baixo >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to >>>> 1568 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is >>>> welcomed. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Lou >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the >>>> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without >>>> > > the >>>> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without >>>> > > the >>>> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> > > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject >>>> > > and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> > > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject >>>> > > and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject >>>> > > and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject >>>> > > and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> the >>>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> the >>>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Don, you'll do just fine... ;-) Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 12:47:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Pat thanks for the informaiton. I guess I will do my best and start to learn what I should have many years ago. Don L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > Don, > The publication that I noted, that's on film at LDS is in Portuguese. > > Before I started my research journey I could not read Portuguese, nor > speak it, let alone write it, but with the help of an > English-Portuguese/Portuguese-English Dictionary, the reading task became > easier. > > I do understand the spoken Portuguese, but I'm still working on my > conversational and written skills that I so badly lack. > > Do you speak/understand the spoken Portuguese? > > If you get "stumped," just post to this list group, so many helpful > individuals, so willing to help... > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 11:20:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Are any of these publications mentioned transcribed into English? > Tthat would be of great importance, when one can not read Portuguese. > Thanks, Don L > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "deepsea06" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:51 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > Miguel and Pat, > Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction. Beleive > it or not I have been working on this genealogy since 1985, both on > the Madeiran side and the Canadian side, it has been a journey and one > which I have enjoyed immensely, especially for the people I have come > to know along the way. Now begins my journey in understanding the > foundations from whence these people came. > > Cheers, > Lou > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > wrote: >> Lou, >> >> The "Registo Genealogico De Familias Que Passaram A Madeira by Luiz Peter >> Clode can be ordered and viewed at your local Family History Center of >> LDS, the film number is >> 1183626 Item #5. >> >> I thought this publication was online, but I couldn't find it today. >> >> Pat >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 9:53:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> >> Lou, >> >> Clode, HHN and Felisberto were available on-line, on the NESOS site. We >> are >> all waiting for that site to re-open. It had ALL the books ever published >> about Madeira. >> Elucidário Madeirense was on line on Alberto Vieira's site. I think. I >> have >> a copy of the first edition. >> >> For illustrious members of madeiran families you have Clode's "Registo >> bio-biliográfico de Madeirenses ilustres." My grand-father has the honour >> of >> being included. (As well as in the "Elucidário"). It is a good source for >> genealogical data, too. >> >> Elucidário madeirense, too, reports some of the more prominent and oldest >> families. And it is also a genealogical source. Ir refers the parishes, >> the >> first priests. And the oldest families who settled there and the names of >> the places. >> >> It has mistakes, of course. And some old families are not referred. But >> it >> is a must. >> >> For the moment, though it has mistakes, omissions, etc. and is a bit >> ideologically biased, you could also consult Padre Nunes Pereira, Ilhas >> de >> Zargo- It was on-line, the genealogical part at least. With many of the >> oldest families from Madeira. >> At one point we all connect with at least one or some or several of these >> oldest families. >> So, Ilhas de Zargo is also a must. >> >> BTW Pe. Nunes Pereira was closely related to my family. >> >> Well, I hope I have been of some help, >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Lou, >>> >>> I think that the best introduction to genealogy is History. To set the >>> families in contrast with their times and societies one should have an >>> historical background. >>> >>> So the first book that I suggest you and everyone to read is a book of >>> Portuguese History. I would recommend "The First Global Village" (How >>> Portugal changed the World) by Martin Page, Editorial Notícias. Maybe >>> you >>> can get it by Amazon. >>> >>> "Portugal is Europe's south-western extremity washed by the Atlantic and >>> warmed by the Mediterranean sun. Alone among Iberia's ancient kingdoms, >>> it >>> is a nation half the size of Florida, with two-thirds the population. >>> Yet >>> over centuries, it has influenced the lives of the rest of us far more >>> than >>> many larger and more powerful countries." >>> >>> "Martin Page provides a fresh perspective on a fascinating country. The >>> First Global Village is an enthralling narrative. (Peter Wise, the >>> Financial >>> Times) >>> >>> >>> "Martin Page is full of live" (The New Yorker) >>> >>> >>> Once you got the general picture of Portuguese history and its action >>> over >>> the whole world, as a madeiran descendant you should read something >>> about >>> Madeira history. There are several Portuguese and Foreign authors who >>> wrote >>> about Madeira. You can find on Alberto Vieira's site lots of books about >>> Madeira. The ones I have at my hand here are all Portuguese. But it >>> would >>> be >>> a necessary instrument for any madeiran descendant to constitute a small >>> library with books about Madeira. >>> >>> >>> And only then would I try to select some of the "genealogistas de >>> referência." A study on our own roots of course is a study of ourselves, >>> so >>> genealogy ends up being a discipline of self-knowledge, and not some >>> snobbish activity. >>> >>> >>> I will come later to this matter, >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Miguel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Miguel etal., >>>> With all the talk of the founding families and history of Madeira etc., >>>> can you suggest a reading list that will enlighten me? Also how readily >>>> available are the genealogical works that you all mention so often, >>>> Clode, >>>> HHN etc. If not available in hard copy what about on the net. Thank you >>>> for >>>> all the wonderful education and enlightenment on my ancestors. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Lou >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro >>>> Henriques >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:11 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> >>>> Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had >>>> some >>>> status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade >>>> line. >>>> I >>>> think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> >>>> Miguel >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Miguel, >>>> > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and >>>> yes >>>> > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. >>>> > >>>> > Cheers, >>>> > Lou >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: [email protected] >>>> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >>>> > Castro >>>> > Henriques >>>> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM >>>> > To: [email protected] >>>> > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > >>>> > Hello Lou, >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some >>>> > Brasões >>>> > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his >>>> line? >>>> > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. >>>> > >>>> > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? >>>> > >>>> > Regards, >>>> > >>>> > Miguel >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage >>>> not >>>> > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) >>>> > > >>>> > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, >>>> 16 >>>> > > Sept >>>> > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) >>>> > > >>>> > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, >>>> 27 >>>> > Aug >>>> > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) >>>> > > >>>> > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao >>>> > Vicente, >>>> > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) >>>> > > >>>> > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – >>>> > > B#556, fl 63) >>>> > > >>>> > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June >>>> > 1735 >>>> > > – >>>> > > B#409, fl 24) >>>> > > >>>> > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 >>>> Feb >>>> > > 1770 >>>> > > – B#409, fl 79) >>>> > > >>>> > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan >>>> > 1815 >>>> > > – >>>> > > B#411, fl 8) >>>> > > >>>> > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 >>>> > July >>>> > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) >>>> > > >>>> > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra >>>> de >>>> > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) >>>> > > >>>> > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da >>>> Camara >>>> > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) >>>> > > >>>> > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, >>>> 9 >>>> > > April 1939) >>>> > > >>>> > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, >>>> > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) >>>> > > >>>> > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, >>>> > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > > >>>> > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also >>>> descendant >>>> > of >>>> > > the homem family in ribeira brava >>>> > > >>>> > > thank you >>>> > > >>>> > > leandro >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>>> > > [email protected] writes: >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro, >>>> > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain >>>> > > >>>> > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel >>>> Pereira >>>> > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) >>>> > > >>>> > > I hope that clears up the confusion. >>>> > > >>>> > > Lou >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > > >>>> > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor >>>> > > homem. >>>> > > >>>> > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. >>>> > > But >>>> > pat >>>> > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco >>>> > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) >>>> > > >>>> > > leandro >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>>> > > [email protected] writes: >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro, >>>> > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a >>>> little >>>> > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. >>>> > > >>>> > > Lou >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>> > > [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>>> > > >>>> > > Thank you Pat >>>> > > >>>> > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? >>>> > > >>>> > > Thank you >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >>>> > > [email protected] writes: >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro, >>>> > > >>>> > > Not sure if this is the same "person." >>>> > > >>>> > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor >>>> Homem, >>>> > > with >>>> > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and >>>> Lou. >>>> > > >>>> > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem >>>> (de >>>> > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. >>>> > > >>>> > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. >>>> > > >>>> > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... >>>> > > >>>> > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my >>>> > > genealogy >>>> > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not >>>> > > now...Frustrating to say the least. >>>> > > >>>> > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da >>>> Costa's >>>> > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... >>>> > > Nothing >>>> > > consent but the state of change...;-))). >>>> > > >>>> > > Pat >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>>> > Pacific >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>>> > > >>>> > > Pat, >>>> > > >>>> > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called >>>> INES >>>> > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and >>>> > not >>>> > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? >>>> or >>>> > > am i mistaken? >>>> > > >>>> > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email >>>> > > [email protected] >>>> > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? >>>> > > >>>> > > Thank you >>>> > > >>>> > > Leandro >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>>> > > >>>> > > Pat, >>>> > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal >>>> > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list >>>> his >>>> > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as >>>> > > follows >>>> > > >>>> > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 >>>> > > >>>> > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava >>>> May >>>> > > 22 1560 >>>> > > >>>> > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana >>>> > > >>>> > > Does this answer your questions? >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Regards, >>>> > > Lou >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >>>> > > >>>> > > Miguel, >>>> > > >>>> > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your >>>> direct >>>> > > line ancestors? >>>> > > >>>> > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and >>>> if >>>> > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao >>>> Ennes >>>> > is >>>> > > your ancestor... >>>> > > >>>> > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order >>>> > from >>>> > > >>>> > > Fernao Ennes to you... >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Pat >>>> > > >>>> > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced >>>> below? >>>> > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' >>>> names >>>> > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the >>>> > Duarte >>>> > > name from? >>>> > > >>>> > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is >>>> > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >>>> > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" < >>>> [email protected] >>>> > > >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>>> > Pacific >>>> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > > >>>> > > Lou, >>>> > > >>>> > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever >>>> be. >>>> > > For us >>>> > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >>>> expected >>>> > > names >>>> > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not >>>> all >>>> > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many >>>> people. >>>> > > >>>> > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from >>>> > the >>>> > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also >>>> have >>>> > > Homens >>>> > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know >>>> > > there >>>> > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, >>>> > Homem >>>> > > de >>>> > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, >>>> > > because a >>>> > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). >>>> > > >>>> > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken >>>> > > from >>>> > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a >>>> very >>>> > > ancient Portuguese family. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Well, I hope I was of some help, >>>> > > >>>> > > Best regards, >>>> > > >>>> > > Miguel >>>> > > >>>> > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his >>>> marriage >>>> > > to >>>> > > Maria Lopes? >>>> > > >>>> > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo >>>> > as >>>> > > ascendant. >>>> > > >>>> > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected] >>>> > >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > > Miguel >>>> > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn >>>> mode >>>> > > and >>>> > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >>>> is >>>> > > > mentioned >>>> > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues >>>> Duarte >>>> > > on 16 >>>> > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >>>> > Maria >>>> > > Lopes >>>> > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book >>>> #454, >>>> > fl >>>> > > 81) >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Regards, >>>> > > > Lou >>>> > > > >>>> > > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > > From: [email protected] >>>> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >>>> > > Castro >>>> > > > Henriques >>>> > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >>>> > > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Hello Lu, >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >>>> > > typical >>>> > > > names from these times. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >>>> > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any >>>> > > Drummond >>>> > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >>>> > > daughter ? >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Regards, >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Miguel >>>> > > > >>>> > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < >>>> > [email protected]> >>>> > > > wrote: >>>> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > All, >>>> > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am >>>> sending >>>> > > them >>>> > > > out >>>> > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or >>>> hints >>>> > are >>>> > > > > appreciated. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar >>>> de >>>> > > Baixo >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to >>>> 1568 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is >>>> welcomed. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Lou >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the >>>> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without >>>> > > the >>>> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without >>>> > > the >>>> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> > > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject >>>> > > and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> > > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject >>>> > > and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject >>>> > > and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> > the >>>> > > quotes in the subject >>>> > > and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> the >>>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without >>>> the >>>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message