Hey Pat, Thank you for your comments. Now im very confused because actually i have all these info given from you in some point throughout those years. Not sure when. Probably along the way you correct your sources and i never changed mines. Is it possible for MIguel or anyone else also comment or confirm this names? about Lucrecia lopes, i got her info in HHN in the titles of Florenca, so as you can see he must have put 2 different things in the same book :) i welcome you comments on this Leandro In a message dated 07/12/2009 02:39:28 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leadro, I hope that I'm not re-visiting a subject that you and others may have already answered, but I have been known to be a "testa dura (sic?)." In viewing your TribalPages website, I have a couple questions: 1. You have a Leonor Abreu married to Jorge Pinto, with Leonor's parents being Rodrigo Alvares Da Costa and Ines Delgado. I have the a Leonore de Atouguia da Costa married to a Jorge Pinto, with my Leonor having the same parents as you... Are you saying that your Leonor Abreu is the same person as Leonor de Atouguia da Costa? If so, what's your source for her referencing her surname as Abreu? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2. Isabel Fernandes (a Velha d'a Serra) you have her parents being Fernao Nunes Cardoso and a Lucrecia Lopes... I have her as being the daughter of Fernao Nunes Cardoso and a Catharina de Gouveia...with the following source notes: "Nobiliario da Madeira by Henrique Henriques de Noronha. Titulo: Delgados. Pedro Delgado, a quem chamárão de alcunha o Nabo, era natural de Portugal, d’a Arruda; passou com sua mulher a viver a esta Ilha pouco depois de seu descobrimento. Foi casado com Izabel Fernandes, a quem chamárão a Vêlha d’a Serra, filha de Fernão Nunes Cardoso, e de Catharina de Gouvêa." Was Lucrecia Lopes another wife of Fernao Nunes Cardoso, if so what's your source? Pat p.s. Hopefully Miguel will add his comments as to who the parents of Isabel Fernandes (a Velha d'a Serra)may have been. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2009 8:40:51 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] website hey Miguel, you are MORE THAN WELCOME to make suggestions and add new info. Actually, not only you but all our cousins from the forum, which im so proud to be related to. These cyber space is quite nice actually, it feels like a big family. Thank you for your compliments and im looking forward to hear from you all. Leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 17:30:40 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Leandro, Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - it shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't mind if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? Some I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and documents. Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the founding fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel de Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). It seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since it's medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL specialists who were these Freitas. Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz "probably" belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. But I don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. Fernando. (I was never able to confirm this title) Well, Once again congratulations and regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website > > hey guys, > > especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, > > I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ > (http://teles.tribalpages.com) > > and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that way > would be easier to follow p how close we are related. > > let me know what you guys think > > thank u > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Lou, > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For > us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not > all > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > ancient Portuguese family. > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > Best regards, > > Miguel > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to > Maria Lopes? > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as > ascendant. > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Miguel > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria > Lopes > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl > > 81) > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > Castro Henriques > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > typical names from these times. > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > Drummond > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > daughter > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > All, > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > > them > > out > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > > > are appreciated. > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > Baixo > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/05/09 > 08:13:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Leandro, I guess anything is possible, but on my chart 77 that Sr. Mello prepared he has the following: Jorge Pinto (+) 1559 April 18 married to Leonor Da Costa (no additional info on her..he then continues this line with their son Jorge Pinto Da Costa m. Margarida Anes De Amil. Back to Jorge Pinto, his parents are shown as Jorge Pinto (+) 1552 Jan 24 m. Maria Lopes...on this chart parents for Jorge Pinto are listed as Lopo Pinto (+) ca.1500 and Cararina Alves... No parents are listed for Maria Lopes. Now for Leonor Da Costa (after reading Nornonha Titulo: COSTAATOU & GeneAll I added the d'a Atouguia, but Sr. Mello only had her name as Leonor Da Costa daughter of Rodrigo Alvares Da Costa, for her mother Sr. Mello has "not mentioned." This is what Titulo: Costaatou has. § 9° N° 3. Rodrigo Alvares d’a Costa, filho 7° de / Francisco Alvares d’a Costa, § 1°, N° 2°./ Casou 1ª vez em 1524 com Ignez / Delgada, filha de Pedro Delgado, e Izabel / Fernandes, a Velha d’a Serra, em titulo de / Delgados, § 1°, N° 1°./ De quem houve/ 4 - D. Leonor d’a Costa, mulher de Jor-/ ge Pinto, em titulo de Pintos, § 1°, N° 3°./ I think that may have obtained your information from what Paulo posted to Cece and not me. See Cece's recent posting... What I'm now going to do is to remove my website from TribalPages, and put everything that Sr. Mello prepared for me back in my pc genealogy data base... I suggest anyone coping what I posted to TribalPages, remove me from their websites...I can't think of any other way to make all this right. Just too many discrepancies. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2009 10:28:01 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] website Hey Pat, Thank you for your comments. Now im very confused because actually i have all these info given from you in some point throughout those years. Not sure when. Probably along the way you correct your sources and i never changed mines. Is it possible for MIguel or anyone else also comment or confirm this names? about Lucrecia lopes, i got her info in HHN in the titles of Florenca, so as you can see he must have put 2 different things in the same book :) i welcome you comments on this Leandro In a message dated 07/12/2009 02:39:28 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leadro, I hope that I'm not re-visiting a subject that you and others may have already answered, but I have been known to be a "testa dura (sic?)." In viewing your TribalPages website, I have a couple questions: 1. You have a Leonor Abreu married to Jorge Pinto, with Leonor's parents being Rodrigo Alvares Da Costa and Ines Delgado. I have the a Leonore de Atouguia da Costa married to a Jorge Pinto, with my Leonor having the same parents as you... Are you saying that your Leonor Abreu is the same person as Leonor de Atouguia da Costa? If so, what's your source for her referencing her surname as Abreu? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2. Isabel Fernandes (a Velha d'a Serra) you have her parents being Fernao Nunes Cardoso and a Lucrecia Lopes... I have her as being the daughter of Fernao Nunes Cardoso and a Catharina de Gouveia...with the following source notes: "Nobiliario da Madeira by Henrique Henriques de Noronha. Titulo: Delgados. Pedro Delgado, a quem chamárão de alcunha o Nabo, era natural de Portugal, d’a Arruda; passou com sua mulher a viver a esta Ilha pouco depois de seu descobrimento. Foi casado com Izabel Fernandes, a quem chamárão a Vêlha d’a Serra, filha de Fernão Nunes Cardoso, e de Catharina de Gouvêa." Was Lucrecia Lopes another wife of Fernao Nunes Cardoso, if so what's your source? Pat p.s. Hopefully Miguel will add his comments as to who the parents of Isabel Fernandes (a Velha d'a Serra)may have been. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2009 8:40:51 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] website hey Miguel, you are MORE THAN WELCOME to make suggestions and add new info. Actually, not only you but all our cousins from the forum, which im so proud to be related to. These cyber space is quite nice actually, it feels like a big family. Thank you for your compliments and im looking forward to hear from you all. Leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 17:30:40 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Leandro, Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - it shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't mind if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? Some I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and documents. Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the founding fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel de Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). It seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since it's medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL specialists who were these Freitas. Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz "probably" belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. But I don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. Fernando. (I was never able to confirm this title) Well, Once again congratulations and regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website > > hey guys, > > especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, > > I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ > (http://teles.tribalpages.com) > > and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that way > would be easier to follow p how close we are related. > > let me know what you guys think > > thank u > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Lou, > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For > us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not > all > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > ancient Portuguese family. > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > Best regards, > > Miguel > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to > Maria Lopes? > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as > ascendant. > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Miguel > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria > Lopes > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl > > 81) > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > Castro Henriques > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > typical names from these times. > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > Drummond > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > daughter > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > All, > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > > them > > out > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > > > are appreciated. > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > Baixo > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/05/09 > 08:13:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message