Miguel, Cousin Miguel of the Saldanhas and Cairos! I may have blamed Paulo for the posting on the possible origins of the Sousa from Ribeira Grande. S. Miguel, but in fact it was you that "threw" this Romanesque part into the debate. You posted a couple of message in January, 2009 that addressed this issue. Ireza, dama da corte, Baltazar Vaz de Sousa, etc. I think you advanced that possibility and their links to the Burgos and Regos etc. I only have a hard copy of the posting. I believe Gonçalo may have been guanche. I have no parents for him and no other evidence, other than circumstances. José -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos Yes, I remember vaguely that discussion- But not the romanesque part. Can you find it? Seems succulent. , During the 15 th and 16 th the Chaves (according to Pereira de Agrela, and other genealogists) were considered top nobiliy from Câmara de Lobos. I can't see a Chaves being Mestre de Açúcar. Still...perhaps a natural son of a natural son? But wasn't he a "guanche"? On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Fernandes, Jose < [email protected]> wrote: > Oops I missed that comment from Miguel. > Miguel will recall Paulo's posting on the Sousa's from Ribeira Grande, > Azores and their discussion on the origin of the Sousas. > Part of that discussion was the possibility of Jerónimo de Sousa, our > ancestor, coming from the Sousas's of Ribeira Grande and eventually from > Iresa who had married a Potuguese noble who killed a man and went in exile > to Azores. Iresa was Irish who had come with Queen Leonor de Lancaster. > At least this is what I remember. I have it in my records but I haven't got > time for the moment. > > Gonçalo Jorge was a 'mestre d'açucar. In the certificate should have that. > I don't know if he was married twice. De Chaves name here at this time, may > be suggest that he may have been first generation in Madeira. But he was > mestre d'açucar and Portuguese didn't much about sugar. I always thought he > might be from the canaries. I don't have his parents. Do you have parents > from the Policena marriage? > > José > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Cece Camara > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:15 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > > Jose said:It is our Irish link! > > Miguel said:Irish? How come? refresh me, please, because it's my favourite > country,apart from Portugal ; - )) > > Cece says-My question exactly!! And especially since that is the next > biggest part of my ancestry. Why is it an Irish link?? > > > Jose said: On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one > married in 1622 > to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de Castro > Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. > > Cece says-Do you know if this Goncalo Jorge was married twice? I have a > Goncalo Jorge (same time frame) married to Dona Policena Teixeira. I > checked > geneall and they have a Goncalo Jorge de Chaves married to Leonor Teixeira > that look to be the same couple maybe..as both my Policena (from Teixeiras > de Tristao Vaz) and their Leonor are daughters of João Teixeira Escórcio > (although even there is a conflict as different mothers are listed). >