Denise and José, As one can see in the "Tombo da Câmara" Francisco Cairos de Orta was "escrivão judicial." (a top bureaucrat of the Funchal Court). Prior to him and probably his ancestor we have a certain Diogo de Orta, who was a land owner of some dimension. a) Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos were relatives. Cousins in the 4 th degree. Maria de Cairos had an aunt ; Beatriz Vaz. b) Gabriel Vaz was a dweller in Camacha when he married. c) Manuel Tavares was the "nephew " of Maria Tavares.- (He married Aldonça Godiunho, 1582), dau of João Godinho (Escudeiro) and Isabel Cré (form the interesting Crés. Felisberto says they come from Creagh - Irish name. The myth says they come from Guillaume de la Longue Epée) .d) Manuel Tavares was the son of Bernardo Martins (Mascarenhas, according to Felisberto). Beatriz Vaz was the dau of Brás Afonso and sister of Francisco Brás married with Juliana de Cairos. All this alows us to infer which was the social frame in which these Cairos were inserted. Upper middle class, top bureaucrats. Connections to nobility. Fleisbetro considers Fernardo Martins borther of Duar6tye Martins, FCR (Fidalgo da Casa Real). They are most certainly related to the famous Constantino de Cairos, Knight and warrior. As a foot note, from these Cairos Vaz, proceed the Freitas leal who had a hiuse and miorgadio in Lombo do Folhadal - Porto da Cruz - later known as Lombo dos Leais. NOTE - al these references were taken from FMPS, pg 392 Cheers, Miguel Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello José, > > Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos and do > you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the marriage was > given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe they were from > Camacha. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Miguel, > Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz or > Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage and he > doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a D'Orta. Is it > possible it is just that he had a "horta"? > We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my 11th, > from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! > > I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. > This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. > > As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras de > Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I shall visit > itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore the castle? I > like > the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all over the world now! > > The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. > > On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married in > 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de > Castro > (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. Can't > find > that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the way, Gonçalo is a > "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro Afonso, he was a "lavrador" > and > seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's mother > a > widow- Gregória Martins. > Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? > > José > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:p > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:27 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > José, > > He is the same Francisco. Sometimes name were shortened > Anyway the d'Orta name puzzles me. There are the Hurtere, Flemish, from > Açores (which gave the name to cidade da Horta), and the Horta, from > Spain. > Could he be from Açores ? From the Hurtere branch? Never heard someone > raising this question before. May be I am 100% wrong. > > The Sás or Sousas e Sás from Caniço are, in part Sousas (by way of > Jerónimo > de Sousa, the trunk of that line) from Açores. I can't remember now their > Sá > name origin. It was a mighty name then, not common, though there were some > Sás commoners and a few Sás nobles. Anyway a noble having Sá as a name > would > use it proudly. Like the Bettencourts de Sá did. > Curuosly the Sás originate in Porto (Portugal) from bourgeois origins, > around the mid 14 th century. So it's not that old. (A really old name in > Portugal is a name existing before 1143, before King Afonso Henriques > declared independence from Castille) when Portugal was still Comitat > Portucalensis. > > I also have lots of Corrêas de Miranda (from Caniço) , coming from the > first > Corrêa de Miranda settler. Do you have them too? Actually my g.grand > mother > was Eulália de Jesus Corrêa de Miranda, her godfather was Morgado Jacinto > de > Freitas Lomelino, still a relative. She married a Nóbrega from the line of > Mundos da Nóbrega. (They say Mundos name was Edmundo. It's quite probable. > But I like the way it stayed for posterity : Mundos. The translation in > English, of course, is "Worlds". Quite meaningful. At least I give it a > lot > of meaning, though Mundos was illiterate. I have his signature, a typical > cross. ) > > The point about the origin of the Nóbrega surname is: was Nóbrega a > toponymic, or not? In short , did the first Madeira Nóbrega came from the > "Terras de Nóbrega", or did they carry the name Nóbrega? In the later case > they could be a branch of the Aboim. But I have not seen this problem > satisfactorily solved. One day, if Nóbrega is an added patronymic then wi > will have to dive in the Gonçalves of Terras de Anóbrega - another way of > saying Nóbrega. And that's for sure cnossian! > > The Regos seems to be from Algarve. The trunk of the Vianas, according to > primo Clode, was Afonso Viana, from Caniço. > > >From him was descended João de Viana, Fidalgo Escudeiro da Casa Real, > "whose > descendants mixed with the Cairos from Caniço".(source: Clode. FMPS pg > 333). > > The Vianas in that time were very rich, had a marble tomb, much envied, > because they were perhaps the only ones in Madeira to afford such a > luxury. > (There is no marble in Madeira). Other noble families wanted to have a > marble tomb " na feissão da de João de Vianna) (similar to the marble tom > of > the magnífico Viana). > > Don' forget ti tell me about your Dias Saldanha. > > Mine were Manuel Dias Saldanha m. Maria de Andrada ( from the Ferreira > Noronhas). His parents were Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. (m. > around 162...) > Perdo Dias Saldanha was a natural son of Diogo Annes Saldanha (ouvidor de > Machico) and Concórdia Fernandes. (I suppose Concórdia was a black woman, > or > mestiça. But I don't know why I suppose so. Perhaps Paulo can shed some > light in here* She was Diogo's "amiga". (lovely expression for lover.) > Ana Henriques, obviously, interests me. Now the Henriques name, being a > patronymic, is a hard bone to crunch. Unfortunately there is no marriage > certificate for Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. > > The interesting thing is to find Saldanhas in Madeira, at an early time. > Almost after the first settlement. I am almost sure . due to their status, > that they were from the Saldanhas that came to Portugal from Spain. > > And as I lived quite near Praça do Saldanha , in Lisbon ( Duke of Saldanha > Square) during many years, this name interests me a lot. I also have > friends > with that name, direct descendants of the first Saldanhas who came to > Portugal. > > About Madalena Jorge, i have scores of Jorges too. Some, were from Porto > Santo, descendants of Pedro Jorge (From the terrible mess of the mid 16 th > Calaças). Others from Gaula, and have nothing to do with the former. And > still others like BeatrizJorge married to Manuel Afonso, (16 th century) > that I can't track. > > > Regards, > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >