Denise, I also have the marriage in 1559. I don't have a copy of the certificate, but I will be ordering it in the future. Camacha is just up the mountain from Caniço. Many of the original families of Camacha are from Caniço (Nóbregas et al) or from Gaula which is just next door. I believe that Camacha separated from Caniço in 1673. José Fernandes -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos Denise and José, As one can see in the "Tombo da Câmara" Francisco Cairos de Orta was "escrivão judicial." (a top bureaucrat of the Funchal Court). Prior to him and probably his ancestor we have a certain Diogo de Orta, who was a land owner of some dimension. a) Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos were relatives. Cousins in the 4 th degree. Maria de Cairos had an aunt ; Beatriz Vaz. b) Gabriel Vaz was a dweller in Camacha when he married. c) Manuel Tavares was the "nephew " of Maria Tavares.- (He married Aldonça Godiunho, 1582), dau of João Godinho (Escudeiro) and Isabel Cré (form the interesting Crés. Felisberto says they come from Creagh - Irish name. The myth says they come from Guillaume de la Longue Epée) .d) Manuel Tavares was the son of Bernardo Martins (Mascarenhas, according to Felisberto). Beatriz Vaz was the dau of Brás Afonso and sister of Francisco Brás married with Juliana de Cairos. All this alows us to infer which was the social frame in which these Cairos were inserted. Upper middle class, top bureaucrats. Connections to nobility. Fleisbetro considers Fernardo Martins borther of Duar6tye Martins, FCR (Fidalgo da Casa Real). They are most certainly related to the famous Constantino de Cairos, Knight and warrior. As a foot note, from these Cairos Vaz, proceed the Freitas leal who had a hiuse and miorgadio in Lombo do Folhadal - Porto da Cruz - later known as Lombo dos Leais. NOTE - al these references were taken from FMPS, pg 392 Cheers, Miguel Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello José, > > Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos and do > you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the marriage was > given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe they were from > Camacha. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Miguel, > Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz or > Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage and he > doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a D'Orta. Is it > possible it is just that he had a "horta"? > We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my 11th, > from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! > > I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. > This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. > > As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras de > Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I shall visit > itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore the castle? I > like > the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all over the world now! > > The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. > > On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married in > 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de > Castro > (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. Can't > find > that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the way, Gonçalo is a > "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro Afonso, he was a "lavrador" > and > seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's mother > a > widow- Gregória Martins. > Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? > > José > >

Wow - you are dancing all over my ancestors here - a & b are all are mine as well as Diogo D'orta although I do not have him tied to Francisco yet. I am actually decended from Diogo through his daughter Vitoria de Cairos who m. Joao de Lamego. (I love this ancestor - when we were in Portugal for Euro 2004 w actually tourned a famour ham factory in Lamego...which of course I had no idea of any connection to that name at that time!) Does anyone have the connection made netween Diogo D'orta and Francisco Cairos de Orta. Sounds like a great line for me to get to work on ;-) Cece -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fernandes, Jose Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 8:33 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos Denise, I also have the marriage in 1559. I don't have a copy of the certificate, but I will be ordering it in the future. Camacha is just up the mountain from Caniço. Many of the original families of Camacha are from Caniço (Nóbregas et al) or from Gaula which is just next door. I believe that Camacha separated from Caniço in 1673. José Fernandes -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos Denise and José, As one can see in the "Tombo da Câmara" Francisco Cairos de Orta was "escrivão judicial." (a top bureaucrat of the Funchal Court). Prior to him and probably his ancestor we have a certain Diogo de Orta, who was a land owner of some dimension. a) Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos were relatives. Cousins in the 4 th degree. Maria de Cairos had an aunt ; Beatriz Vaz. b) Gabriel Vaz was a dweller in Camacha when he married. c) Manuel Tavares was the "nephew " of Maria Tavares.- (He married Aldonça Godiunho, 1582), dau of João Godinho (Escudeiro) and Isabel Cré (form the interesting Crés. Felisberto says they come from Creagh - Irish name. The myth says they come from Guillaume de la Longue Epée) .d) Manuel Tavares was the son of Bernardo Martins (Mascarenhas, according to Felisberto). Beatriz Vaz was the dau of Brás Afonso and sister of Francisco Brás married with Juliana de Cairos. All this alows us to infer which was the social frame in which these Cairos were inserted. Upper middle class, top bureaucrats. Connections to nobility. Fleisbetro considers Fernardo Martins borther of Duar6tye Martins, FCR (Fidalgo da Casa Real). They are most certainly related to the famous Constantino de Cairos, Knight and warrior. As a foot note, from these Cairos Vaz, proceed the Freitas leal who had a hiuse and miorgadio in Lombo do Folhadal - Porto da Cruz - later known as Lombo dos Leais. NOTE - al these references were taken from FMPS, pg 392 Cheers, Miguel Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello José, > > Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos > and do you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the > marriage was given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe > they were from Camacha. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Miguel, > Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz > or Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage > and he doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a > D'Orta. Is it possible it is just that he had a "horta"? > We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my > 11th, from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! > > I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. > This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. > > As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras > de Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I > shall visit itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore > the castle? I like the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all > over the world now! > > The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. > > On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married > in > 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de > Castro (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda > Dias. Can't find that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the > way, Gonçalo is a "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro > Afonso, he was a "lavrador" > and > seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's > mother a > widow- Gregória Martins. > Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? > > José > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date: 01/03/10 09:41:00