About 1570, in Calheta. That record has vanished, though it must have existed, since she is referred as widow when she marries Rui Chamorro. Paulo Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> wrote in Thu, 7 Jan 2010 02:04:59 +0000: > No idea about the time frame? > > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:59 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Agrela does not state the year. >> >> >> In a message dated 1/7/2010 2:58:39 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> In which year? >> >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:45 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Hi Miguel >> > >> > I have the same isabel marrying Andre Araujo. Info by Agrella. Did she >> > married twice? Was the same person? >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Leandro >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 1/7/2010 1:46:43 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > [email protected] writes: >> > >> > I found an old marriage register to which I did not concede much >> > importance >> > at the time. Now I see that it connects with a discussion about F.co >> > Rodrigues de Gouveia we had here a year ago or so. Was he Licenciado or >> > not? >> > Was it a forgery? (his marriage document, as Paulo contended). Well, it >> > seems that it was not. Let's see why. >> > >> > Anyway here we go. It's the marriage certificate of Isabel Leal m. Rui >> > Chamorro, (1577, Sé do Funchal). >> > >> > She is the dau, of F.co da Costa de Siqueira and Leonor Rodrigues. (The >> > Costa de Siqueira were noble, and are relatively well known). Him, Rui >> > Chamorro, son of Licenciado Francisco Rodrigues de Gouveia (already >> dead) >> > and his wife - and here is the surprise ..*.Beatriz Gonçalves de Leam >> de >> > Chamorra !!* >> > >> > The document is original, The words "Gonçalves de Leam de" were added >> with >> > the very same writing of the priest who wrote the document (I have no >> > doubt >> > about it. It was the priest. It's not an added and clever forgery, i >> bet >> > strongly on that). Anyway It's a name extraodinarily long for that >> time. >> > And >> > containing explosive and brand new information. >> > >> > The Leão were from Italian origin, merchants. "Mercadores do trauto do >> > assucar" (They came very early to Madeira, around 1472). They >> established >> > themselves in Funchal.They were later and, no surprisingly, connected >> by >> > marriage with the Spínolas.. They were upper bourgeoisie, at least. >> > A Licenciado Diogo de Leão existed around that time. Probably a >> relative? >> > >> > In this document we have evidence that a Licenciado Francisco Rodrigues >> de >> > Gouveia truly existed. So in face of this document we are forced to say >> he >> > is documented and his full name was truly Francisco Rodrigues de >> Gouveia. >> > Now he was supposed to be married to a just Brites Chamorra by several >> > leading genealogists (Meneses Vaz included) >> > >> > Here from ARM database: Francisco Rodrigues de Gouveia, Dr. >> > Beatriz >> > Chamorra Sé 1539 46 7 v.º >> > >> > But how come no one mentioned the "Gonçalves de Leam" of Beatriz >> Chamorra? >> > It was mandatory! Because it's an extremely interesting and central >> > detail >> > which could lead to a connection, still unknown , between the Leão and >> the >> > Chamorros. What is said here is that it (that connection) blatantly >> > existed. >> > This Chamorra had Leam (Leão) blood. That no genealogist said it >> before. >> > And >> > that, just amazes me. >> > >> > >> > The witness were João Rodrigues Escórcio - well known character. Joam >> > Carvalho. Pedro Feo (Feio) and Francisco Jorge. All the witness as is >> > fitting for the marriage of a Licenciado could read and write. >> > >> > I think Joam Carvalho was a judge. >> > >> > Anyway all this is really groovy and juicy. >> > >> > >> > I leave here this info.because I think very strange that none of the >> > leading >> > genealogists (of reference, I know and studied almost them all but I >> won't >> > quote all their names) referred it. Especially those who wrote the >> > Rodrigues de Gouveia title as well as the Lopes Esteves title (patent >> in >> > the >> > old and regreted NESOS). Had they seen it they were "condemned" to >> refer >> > this Beatriz Gonçalves de Leam de Chamorra. They would have been as >> > stupefied as I am. Did this document eluded them? I don't believe that >> > having seen it they would discard it,. They were too knowledgeable to >> do >> > it. >> > Besides it has a promising discovery adventure appended to it. So I >> have >> > to >> > concede that this document that I got pretty easily escaped their >> > attention, >> > or was stuck in an old pile behind a desk or something at their time. >> > >> > >> > Of course this interests half Madeira, since half Madeira descends >> from >> > the >> > Rodrigues de Gouveia. >> > >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > >> > Miguel >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject >> > and the body of the message >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >