While mentioning the Madeira poets, let's not forget Francisco Álvares de Nóbrega, the so called "Camões pequeno" who, as I found out recently, is close family indeed (both descending from Sebastião Duarte and Maria ed Nóbrega, parents of Manuel de Nóbrega Duarte mentioned in the last post). Also: *Francisco de Paula Medina e Vasconcelos, who wrote the despised Zargueida (5th cousin, married to a 2nd cousin). *The Aónio (Antº de Carvalhal Esmeraldo), 5th cousin. *Francisco de Vasconcelos "o Narizinho", 3rd cousin. *Fcº de Vasconcelos Coutinho (from the XXN Matos), 5th cousin. *Jorge da Câmara, 3rd cousin. *Manuel de Noronha (Cancioneiro Geral), uncle *Manuel Pontes de Gouveia, 3rd cousin From direct knowledge, before starting working in genealogy, I only knew about 2 poets related to my family: Cabral do Nascimento (2nd cousin) and Edmundo de Bettencourt (said to be a close cousin, but the connection seems to be a lady living in Paul do Mar, aunt to both him and my grand-ma, at whose house both of them used to spend part of the Summer). And, last but not the least, Manuel Gonçalves (Oh, those Gonçalves!) the Feiticeiro do Norte: http://bmfunchal.blogs.sapo.pt/2470.html Though I've not still worked his genealogy, he's undoubtedly family, besides being a close friend to my great-grand-father and grand-father. :) Cheers, Paulo Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> wrote in Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:34:53 +0000: > Cece, > > Yes the ACs are one of the more tough títulos to go through. But I like it > difficult. > I am on it since 5 years or so.I might have not progressed half an inch. But > then I am like a crocodile, as soon as it bites something never let go. > Your prize there is HA., the top prize of all madeiran genealogical > research, so better think twice before giving up. > > > Speaking about that who or what would be the top treasures to find in one's > own tree? (if there is such a thing as "own tree", because after some > generations any tree inter-links with other people's trees in many ways) > > Anyway, personally, for my family panteon,: the poets, the poets first of > all, João Gomes, Tristão das Damas, João Rodrigues Cabral, Gomes Leal, > Cabral do Nascimento, Herberto Helder, António de Aragão...I got a direct > connection with the 3 first, an indirect with Gomes Leal ) (the greatest > portuguese symbolist poet) and Herberto is simply the best from the > contemporaries of all Portugal and Palops. I am investogating his Ferreiras. > With Cabral do Nascimento, and indirect connection he was linked to the > Caiados, and also the Cabrais, and one day I'll find a connection with the > Rodrigues Lourenço, from Ponta do Pargo, and voilà, > > Then as second best I treasure the navigators themselves: Zarco, and his > first companions (I already posted a list of them all, collected by prof. > Joel Serrão, a great madeiran and historian). I think it was one of my first > posts on this list. > > Then I don't know why, well I know a bit why ( they're such a chaotic, > complex and tragic family) the first Perestrelos. > > Then the first settlers and sesmeiros. > > I am aware that I should have a top ten list, well, but that's a start. > > Fialgos and nobles don't interest me that much. But they are generally nice > to find because sometimes they lead to medieval Portugal, my favorite > period. generally they are prolific people, not only within the realms of > their oficial family, but ouit of it. Bastards are so many. Natural sons and > daugthers. Some were carefully hiddedn, others not so much. I got loads. > They become secondary lines. They are sinuous, baroque, and romantic if not > libertine. I like complexity, caracther, hidden things, you see. > > What I don't liked (in my research) was to stumble upon any Gonçalves.,As > research progressed they would lead to other Gonçalves endlessly. My! How > they like that name Gonçalves. And I have loads of them in my tree, But > recently I believe I started to overcome that prejudice against Gonçalves > because a couple of Gonçalves lead me to the JRT, "O Gordo" (and I don't > know why I always liked that guy, now I know why, noblesse oblige) , also > Afonso da Mata, and an interesting Isabel Arrais de Mendonça. So, Ok, there > are Gonçalves and Gonçalves. One of the misleading Gonçalves I encountered > was a Gonçalves da Câmara ( 16 th century). > > When one starts this genealogical saga one's own tree is central. (at least > for me it was) Then "one's own" treesomehow starts to loose its importance > or centrality. One discovers one descends from all mankind. One own's tree > opens its vistas to a broader picture: it becomes like a genealogical > mandala, all including. > > Fun how genealogy helps psychological growth, and becomes a tool for the > open mind. > > Well, hope I did'nt bore you with my philosophical considerations. Great > weather in here, though terribly cold. (for us, cold is 7 º C above zero). > > > Miguel > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Both the Roz and Isaura were taken directly from the Azevedos Cardosos by >> Pelo Conego Fernando Meneses Vaz. >> This one has been a nightmare for me to work as he uses different names for >> the same person in many places...and in addition there appears to be some >> possible errors in connections. >> I'm about to give up on this one ;-) >> >> Cece >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: Miguel de Castro Henriques [mailto:[email protected] >> ] >> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:23 AM >> To: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Azevedos Cardosos >> >> >> Hello Cece, >> >> Let's start somewhere. >> >> >> Raz or Rás not Roz. It's a full name, not an abbreviation of Rodrigues. It >> could be derived from Arrais. >> >> Isoa not Isaura. Isoa is derived from Iseult or Yseult. From the classical >> Tristan and Iseult Arthurian story. Centuries before de Da Vinci Code, >> Madeiran gentry, especially from Gaula, was very keen on giving Arthurian >> names to their issue: Lançarote, from Lancelot. Galaz, from Sir Galahad, >> Tristão from Sir Tristram. (As a name, Isaura only appears in Madeira in >> the >> 19 th century, so it is quite a modern name) >> >> Título Henriques Alemão, starts with Henrique Alemâo, da Madalena do Mar, >> one of the most mysterious figures from Madeira Island. He had a title: >> Cavaleiro da Ordem de Santa Catarina do Monte Sinai. married Senhorinha >> Anes, from Algarvian and noble origins. So much has been written about >> Henrique Alemão that it is difficult to say more. He is madeiran myth >> Número >> Um, since then and probably will stay. (More than Ronaldo...). Nobiliários >> and legend had him as "Prince Polónio", prince from Poland. In those times >> anyone from north of France upwards was whatever his country "Alemão". The >> myth reports that he was actually the King of Poland himself, Ladislas >> Jagiello, who disappeared after the battle of Varna against the turks >> commanded by the legendary Sultan Ammurates. Books have been written by >> celebrated madeiran authors like Reis Gomes (O Cavaleiro de Santa >> Catarina). >> So what would you want more: a medieval king, a warrior, who disappears >> from >> the historical scene, only to re-emerge years later as a errant Knight in >> Madeira island? He never claimed he was that lost King. >> He was treated by Zarco, the Captain Donatário, with exceptional >> consideration and regards. When invited to Zarco's house - and Zarco was >> the >> leading man in Madeira, Zarco in person - not a mere servant - would serve >> him his meals, in "baixela de prata." This tells loads about the status of >> the caracther. >> When he was recognised as the lost King of Polland by several monks who had >> come from Polland to Madeira to implore him to return to his kingom, he >> dismissed them saying: Fools! >> >> But it seems that some time later the King of Portugal sent a ship to >> Madeira to bring him to Portugal. legend has that it was that when he was >> going by boat from Madalena do Mar to Funchal, to get on board, some rocks >> from a cliff fell down and the boat sank, and all the crew and passengers >> perished. Parts of his body were recovered from the sea. My brother, in >> Madeira saw his stone grave in which it is inscribed the Wheel of St. >> Catarina, the only coat of arms he ever used in Madeira. >> Right now in the most charming town of the whole world, Lisbon, at Museu de >> Arte Antiga there is currently an exhibition of madeiran paintings. One of >> the paintings, the most famous (from the 15 th century, Flanders school) is >> supposed to represent Henrique Alemão,posing as Saint Joachim, and >> Senhorinha Anes, as Saint Anne - the parents of the Virgin Mary. >> >> To be continued some day. >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 2:01 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Just working this genealogia as the first few names in it are direct for me >> (namely Catarina Pires de Quintal, daughter of Pedro Lopes de Quintal). >> Further on I came across Nuno Goncalves Cardoso who married (it says) >> Catarina de Roz daughter of Nicolau de Roz and Isaura Perestrello. >> I've never seen the name Roz before - and it does not appear to be an >> abbreviation for Rodrigues as I initially thought. It also says they are >> from the Titulo de Henriques Alemao- another one I am not familiar with. >> Just thought I'd see if anyone can shed any more light on either of these >> names. >> Cece >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.131/2609 - Release Date: 01/09/10 >> 07:35:00 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >