>From Pereira de Agrela. On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta <[email protected]>wrote: > How do you know that he was Fidalgo da Casa Real? > > Paulo > > Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> wrote > in Fri, 8 Jan 2010 00:39:04 +0000: > > > Pero Feo is probably from the Feios Lobos --- Procedem de Pêro Feio, > > fidalgo da Casa Real, que casou duas vezes, uma com Maria Calaça e outra > com > > Maria Rodrigues em 1552, na Sé. > > > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 12:46 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> I found an old marriage register to which I did not concede much > >> importance at the time. Now I see that it connects with a discussion > about > >> F.co Rodrigues de Gouveia we had here a year ago or so. Was he > Licenciado or > >> not? Was it a forgery? (his marriage document, as Paulo contended). > Well, it > >> seems that it was not. Let's see why. > >> > >> Anyway here we go. It's the marriage certificate of Isabel Leal m. Rui > >> Chamorro, (1577, Sé do Funchal). > >> > >> She is the dau, of F.co da Costa de Siqueira and Leonor Rodrigues. (The > >> Costa de Siqueira were noble, and are relatively well known). Him, Rui > >> Chamorro, son of Licenciado Francisco Rodrigues de Gouveia (already > dead) > >> and his wife - and here is the surprise ..*.Beatriz Gonçalves de Leam de > >> Chamorra !!* > >> > >> The document is original, The words "Gonçalves de Leam de" were added > with > >> the very same writing of the priest who wrote the document (I have no > doubt > >> about it. It was the priest. It's not an added and clever forgery, i bet > >> strongly on that). Anyway It's a name extraodinarily long for that time. > And > >> containing explosive and brand new information. > >> > >> The Leão were from Italian origin, merchants. "Mercadores do trauto do > >> assucar" (They came very early to Madeira, around 1472). They > established > >> themselves in Funchal.They were later and, no surprisingly, connected by > >> marriage with the Spínolas.. They were upper bourgeoisie, at least. > >> A Licenciado Diogo de Leão existed around that time. Probably a > relative? > >> > >> In this document we have evidence that a Licenciado Francisco Rodrigues > de > >> Gouveia truly existed. So in face of this document we are forced to say > he > >> is documented and his full name was truly Francisco Rodrigues de > Gouveia. > >> Now he was supposed to be married to a just Brites Chamorra by several > >> leading genealogists (Meneses Vaz included) > >> > >> Here from ARM database: Francisco Rodrigues de Gouveia, Dr. > >> Beatriz Chamorra Sé 1539 46 7 v.º > >> > >> But how come no one mentioned the "Gonçalves de Leam" of Beatriz > Chamorra? > >> It was mandatory! Because it's an extremely interesting and central > detail > >> which could lead to a connection, still unknown , between the Leão and > the > >> Chamorros. What is said here is that it (that connection) blatantly > existed. > >> This Chamorra had Leam (Leão) blood. That no genealogist said it before. > And > >> that, just amazes me. > >> > >> > >> The witness were João Rodrigues Escórcio - well known character. Joam > >> Carvalho. Pedro Feo (Feio) and Francisco Jorge. All the witness as is > >> fitting for the marriage of a Licenciado could read and write. > >> > >> I think Joam Carvalho was a judge. > >> > >> Anyway all this is really groovy and juicy. > >> > >> > >> I leave here this info.because I think very strange that none of the > >> leading genealogists (of reference, I know and studied almost them all > but I > >> won't quote all their names) referred it. Especially those who wrote > the > >> Rodrigues de Gouveia title as well as the Lopes Esteves title (patent in > the > >> old and regreted NESOS). Had they seen it they were "condemned" to refer > >> this Beatriz Gonçalves de Leam de Chamorra. They would have been as > >> stupefied as I am. Did this document eluded them? I don't believe that > >> having seen it they would discard it,. They were too knowledgeable to do > it. > >> Besides it has a promising discovery adventure appended to it. So I have > to > >> concede that this document that I got pretty easily escaped their > >> attention, or was stuck in an old pile behind a desk or something at > their > >> time. > >> > >> > >> Of course this interests half Madeira, since half Madeira descends from > the > >> Rodrigues de Gouveia. > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> > >> Miguel > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >