Hi Everyone, No, I hadnt seen Jamie's posting, I tried to send her a note, It didnt go through...Not sure how or if she is related yet...but would love to find more family.. Thanks Luis, for filling in my huge crater and reassuring me, its just a little hole. I do have the parents names off of marriage and death documents, that is how I jumped ahead.. I felt as if I was cheating for jumping ahead.. :-0 lol Josephine is listed as being born in Hawaii on one of the census, I did write to Hawaii though some time ago and they were unable to find her birth certificate..So you are right, I really am not sure where she was born.. Not sure who gave the census information, so hard telling if they really knew, either..Although, I have found what I think is her parents, listed as living next door to Manuel and Josie in 1920, in Alameda Co., Calif... Thanks Duane, for the offer..Unfortunately, I only have his name as: Manuel Dias B: 1877-1880 and D: 27 Dec 1949; I have yet to find any kind of a middle name for him...Not sure that will/would be alot to go on, but I sure do appreciate any help or information, greatly.. Manuel was a dairy farmer and his brother Joseph had an orchard, i think ?? Thank you all Tammy

One more thing....there is an 1890 hawaii census film that "Contains index (typescript) and extract (handwritten) of the 1890 Census of Hawaii for the districts or islands: Hilo -- Kau -- Hamakua -- Kau contains (Bureau of Conveyance adoption index, 1847-1899; 3rd Circuit Court probate index, pkt. 1-522, approx. 1850-1899); 1910 census extract & index of Kau -- Kohala (south & north) -- Puna -- Kauai -- Maui -- Molokai -- Oahu. L US/CAN Film 1675447 Items 2-11" I have never seen one of these so I do not know what exactly is in it but it may be worth your while if you can find Manuel still living with his parents. Luis Luis Beal <luisbeal@yahoo.com> wrote: Well, hope I did not burst your bubble before. Now that I had a chance to look at Manuel's census and I went back to Joao's I noticed both immigrated in 1883, so hopefully she misunderstood the how many children are living question for how many children are living at home. Since neither could read or write there is a chance her name may be Carolina, said with a strong accent can sound Curubina. The census taker was RK Baptiste a pastor for the portuguese christian church, hopefully he spoke good portuguese. Luis Luis Beal wrote: Found Manuel in 1900, he is down on ancestry as Manuel Melia, wife Maria Luisa. He was born unknown in 1876, 24 years old, married 3 years, born Portugal, same for parents, immigrated in 1883 had been in the us 17 years and was naturalized a citizen, he could not read or write but could speak english and hawaiian. She was down as being born in Oct 1880, 19, married 3 years, had one child and 1 child was living, born Portugal same as parents, came in 1881, been in US 19 years, could not read or write, could not speak english or hawaiian. Daughter Maria, born sep 1899 in Hawaii. Luis Luis Beal wrote: Duane, I do not mean to burst your bubble because Curubina may be a possibility, but the numbers next to her name mean, birth year, age, married, how many children has had, and how many children are living at the time of the census and the number for later two is two. So this may not be your family. Why don't you give me more info on your Manuel, like what name did he go by, his spouse too, nicknames... If he had kids before 1910, names (firt and middle), ages, where they were living at the time of each census. I think if we find him in the 1900/10/20/30 there should be some leading information. Also do you know if he had siblings that came to the US? If he did do you know names and ages? Luis Duane DeMello wrote: Theresa: Thank you very much for your efforts to help me. Re Curubina M., I also have been searching under "Maria," "Magdelena," etc., in the event she went by her middle name. Today I am going to also check on the siblings. Cheers and best wishes, Duane -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Entin [mailto:tentin@fullchannel.net] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:42 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Re: Curubina Good Morning Duane, You've had a great find with Ancestry. Unfortunately, not good with me. I thought when I saw the name of his mother, that I wouldn't find it. Curubina, is not a name that I've found in S. Maria. It is funny, but there are certain last and first names that are not used in that region. I'm not saying that it is impossible for it to be there, but I don't have it. Can it be spelled differently? I will also do a little more checking in my material to see what I can come up with. Also, don't forget that you can search for his siblings and get the same information you need. best regards, Theresa I have CC this to the Azores and Madeira lists, to see if that name is familiar to any of the towns they are searching. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane DeMello" To: Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 3:30 PM > Theresa: > Sorry to bother you but I may have hit upon something with my > greatgrandparents, J. de Mello and C. de Mello (cited on my grandparents > marriage registration in Hilo: The 1900 Federal Census shows a Joao de > Mello (born 1838 in Portugal) married to Curubina M. de Mello, born 1836 > in > Portugal. No mention is made of the Azores. Two children were living > with > them, Jacintha C., born 1882 in Portugal, and Jose, born 1886 in Hawaii. > My > grandfather, Manuel, born 1875 in Portugal, moved out by 1900 (married in > 1897) and was starting his own family in Hilo. Manuel's death certificate > only lists the name of his father, "John" (Joao). > Can you check your Santa Maria listings? See what going back on > Ancestry.Com did for me! > > Cheers and best wishes, Duane > > > > ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Cool, good luck. Buzz if you need any help. Luis Jertamal <jertamal@comcast.net> wrote: Hi Everyone, No, I hadnt seen Jamie's posting, I tried to send her a note, It didnt go through...Not sure how or if she is related yet...but would love to find more family.. Thanks Luis, for filling in my huge crater and reassuring me, its just a little hole. I do have the parents names off of marriage and death documents, that is how I jumped ahead.. I felt as if I was cheating for jumping ahead.. :-0 lol Josephine is listed as being born in Hawaii on one of the census, I did write to Hawaii though some time ago and they were unable to find her birth certificate..So you are right, I really am not sure where she was born.. Not sure who gave the census information, so hard telling if they really knew, either..Although, I have found what I think is her parents, listed as living next door to Manuel and Josie in 1920, in Alameda Co., Calif... Thanks Duane, for the offer..Unfortunately, I only have his name as: Manuel Dias B: 1877-1880 and D: 27 Dec 1949; I have yet to find any kind of a middle name for him...Not sure that will/would be alot to go on, but I sure do appreciate any help or information, greatly.. Manuel was a dairy farmer and his brother Joseph had an orchard, i think ?? Thank you all Tammy ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Hello add- I hope someone would be kind enough to help me. I have been to the Nesos site many times but have never been able to see the images or any of the text they have there. I can do a search and all comes up but when it gets down to going to the pages in the books and records I can't see it. I know it at one time showed that you had to have Applet to be able to see images. Is that still true and where can I download a copy- does it still say that on the site. It won't automatically download on my Mac computer when I go the the pages of the text. Hope your not comfused yet .I used my son's PC computer several years ago and it worked fine- i could see everything- he can't help me with my questions, lives to far away. Thanks for you help in this matter- I sure would like to look to see what it holds about my Drummond and Vasconcelos line. Darlene

If I can get Manuel's full name I can check it against some good source materials I have, including Robert S. De Mello's book on Portuguese immigration to Hawaii, the J.F. Freitas book on "Portuguese Hawaiian Memories," ship lists, etc. Cheers, Duane -----Original Message----- From: Luis Beal [mailto:luisbeal@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 1:08 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] Need Help or Ideas, please Do you know jamie logsdon logsdonj@attbi.com? She put a post it note on www.rootsweb.com in the california death index saying she thinks he may be her grandfather, back in 2002. When you search the census try switching the names around by writting the last name in the first name box. I know there are a few census that have been inputed backwards. Also if you search ancestry do a wildcard search, you need the three first letters and then add an asterix like Dia* this will look for any name that start with Dia and ends in Dias, Diam, Diamante... whatever ending they have on the database, you can also use it on the first name. Also you can type in Man?el and it will search Manuel, Manoel... You really have a lot on Manuel, if he only moved to the states in 1906-09 he was probably still in Madeira up until then. The 1910 possible match is that in Hawaii or CA? I think if you know where he was born, and hopefully you know his parents' names, since he was married twice and one of the records should state the parent's names, you are doing awsome. Personally I would not worry too much about the rest. As for the wife, what makes you sure she was not born in portugal and immigrated to CA, maybe with siblings or by herself when she was older? That would explain you not being able to track her down. What does the marriage record say about her birthplace, 1917 should say something I hope. Where did you find Frank and jane's names? It would be Francisco and Joana in portuguese. Lawrence is not a portuguese name but it could be translated as Lourenco (with the little comma under the c). Could they have gone to Hawaii to get married because they wanted to be in a pretty place without pesky relatives telling them what to wear, or serve, or who to invite to the wedding? Sure sounds good to me!! You do not have dead ends, you have a few holes in the ground that you need to decide how important it is to fill them up. If you can easily go back in time and track both their ancestors then all these holes will be filling in is their timeline. It is an awsome thing to do but do not get too stress out about it or toss it out the window. Move forward and every now and then see if anything else has been made available online or on film that will help you fill in the gaps. Luis Beal Jertamalz <jertamalz@comcast.net> wrote: Hi Portuguese Experts, (all of you inspirational, exceptionally knowledgeable and abundantly patient bunch of folks) I have hit some dead ends.. I am wondering if any of you have any suggestions, thoughts or comments for me (the slow kid in the class).. There is a hole in time that I am unable to obtain any information for my great grandparents: Their names (of course are Manuel Dias and Josephine Lawrence) might as well be John and Jane Smith.. I have tried and keep getting frustrated and set it aside. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Time Line For Manuel would look like: 1877-1880 Born in (Santa Cruz, Madeira, Portugal) 1906 or 09: census dates, which they listed as his immigration year (cant prove this ?) 1910: A possible match on the census: (but that is questionable ?) (have proof for the following) 1917: (March): Marriage #1 Manuel and Josephine 1917 (August): San Francisco Passenger List (Alien Pass.from Honolulu) (Manuel (37) and Josephine(30) Married) 1920: (40 yo) in Alameda, Calif. 1927: Marriage #2 in Santa Clara, Calif. 1930: (50 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. 1940: No Census Yet Available 1949: Died (about 72 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. He supposedly came over to Hawaii and met Josephine and then married her in Calif (which they did marry in Calif.)...Then there is a ship manifest having both of them leaving Honolulu after the wedding date, going home to Calif.... Where should I be looking for evidence of him in Hawaii ?? Where can I or should I be looking for his departure from Portugal, and his Arrival to Hawaii, and Likewise, his departure from Hawaii to the arrival in the US? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- As for Josephine (Jossie, Josie) 1886 born rumored to be Portugal, But I now believe it to be Hilo, Hawaii ?? (cant find proof of this) lose her also until: 1917 (Mar): 30 yo marriage in Oakland, Calif. 1917 (Aug): Ship manifest to San Fran. from Honolulu 1920: census: 33yo in Oakland, Calif. 1927: Died at 41 yo I cant seem to find her or her family in Hawaii, either. Her parents are both listed as born in Portugal. His name is Frank and hers is Johanna /Jane ?? I don't understand if they were married and living in Calif. why they went to Hawaii, unless it was to visit some Family?? So I cant find them both for a 30 year span...I would think it would be easy with census and ships manifests to locate them, must be I am not in the right places?? Help :-) Before I toss them aside again, Tammy ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429

Theresa: Thank you very much for your efforts to help me. Re Curubina M., I also have been searching under "Maria," "Magdelena," etc., in the event she went by her middle name. Today I am going to also check on the siblings. Cheers and best wishes, Duane -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Entin [mailto:tentin@fullchannel.net] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:42 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Re: Curubina Good Morning Duane, You've had a great find with Ancestry. Unfortunately, not good with me. I thought when I saw the name of his mother, that I wouldn't find it. Curubina, is not a name that I've found in S. Maria. It is funny, but there are certain last and first names that are not used in that region. I'm not saying that it is impossible for it to be there, but I don't have it. Can it be spelled differently? I will also do a little more checking in my material to see what I can come up with. Also, don't forget that you can search for his siblings and get the same information you need. best regards, Theresa I have CC this to the Azores and Madeira lists, to see if that name is familiar to any of the towns they are searching. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane DeMello" <CasaDeMello@comcast.net> To: <tentin@fullchannel.net> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 3:30 PM > Theresa: > Sorry to bother you but I may have hit upon something with my > greatgrandparents, J. de Mello and C. de Mello (cited on my grandparents > marriage registration in Hilo: The 1900 Federal Census shows a Joao de > Mello (born 1838 in Portugal) married to Curubina M. de Mello, born 1836 > in > Portugal. No mention is made of the Azores. Two children were living > with > them, Jacintha C., born 1882 in Portugal, and Jose, born 1886 in Hawaii. > My > grandfather, Manuel, born 1875 in Portugal, moved out by 1900 (married in > 1897) and was starting his own family in Hilo. Manuel's death certificate > only lists the name of his father, "John" (Joao). > Can you check your Santa Maria listings? See what going back on > Ancestry.Com did for me! > > Cheers and best wishes, Duane > > > > ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Well, hope I did not burst your bubble before. Now that I had a chance to look at Manuel's census and I went back to Joao's I noticed both immigrated in 1883, so hopefully she misunderstood the how many children are living question for how many children are living at home. Since neither could read or write there is a chance her name may be Carolina, said with a strong accent can sound Curubina. The census taker was RK Baptiste a pastor for the portuguese christian church, hopefully he spoke good portuguese. Luis Luis Beal <luisbeal@yahoo.com> wrote: Found Manuel in 1900, he is down on ancestry as Manuel Melia, wife Maria Luisa. He was born unknown in 1876, 24 years old, married 3 years, born Portugal, same for parents, immigrated in 1883 had been in the us 17 years and was naturalized a citizen, he could not read or write but could speak english and hawaiian. She was down as being born in Oct 1880, 19, married 3 years, had one child and 1 child was living, born Portugal same as parents, came in 1881, been in US 19 years, could not read or write, could not speak english or hawaiian. Daughter Maria, born sep 1899 in Hawaii. Luis Luis Beal wrote: Duane, I do not mean to burst your bubble because Curubina may be a possibility, but the numbers next to her name mean, birth year, age, married, how many children has had, and how many children are living at the time of the census and the number for later two is two. So this may not be your family. Why don't you give me more info on your Manuel, like what name did he go by, his spouse too, nicknames... If he had kids before 1910, names (firt and middle), ages, where they were living at the time of each census. I think if we find him in the 1900/10/20/30 there should be some leading information. Also do you know if he had siblings that came to the US? If he did do you know names and ages? Luis Duane DeMello wrote: Theresa: Thank you very much for your efforts to help me. Re Curubina M., I also have been searching under "Maria," "Magdelena," etc., in the event she went by her middle name. Today I am going to also check on the siblings. Cheers and best wishes, Duane -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Entin [mailto:tentin@fullchannel.net] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:42 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Re: Curubina Good Morning Duane, You've had a great find with Ancestry. Unfortunately, not good with me. I thought when I saw the name of his mother, that I wouldn't find it. Curubina, is not a name that I've found in S. Maria. It is funny, but there are certain last and first names that are not used in that region. I'm not saying that it is impossible for it to be there, but I don't have it. Can it be spelled differently? I will also do a little more checking in my material to see what I can come up with. Also, don't forget that you can search for his siblings and get the same information you need. best regards, Theresa I have CC this to the Azores and Madeira lists, to see if that name is familiar to any of the towns they are searching. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane DeMello" To: Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 3:30 PM > Theresa: > Sorry to bother you but I may have hit upon something with my > greatgrandparents, J. de Mello and C. de Mello (cited on my grandparents > marriage registration in Hilo: The 1900 Federal Census shows a Joao de > Mello (born 1838 in Portugal) married to Curubina M. de Mello, born 1836 > in > Portugal. No mention is made of the Azores. Two children were living > with > them, Jacintha C., born 1882 in Portugal, and Jose, born 1886 in Hawaii. > My > grandfather, Manuel, born 1875 in Portugal, moved out by 1900 (married in > 1897) and was starting his own family in Hilo. Manuel's death certificate > only lists the name of his father, "John" (Joao). > Can you check your Santa Maria listings? See what going back on > Ancestry.Com did for me! > > Cheers and best wishes, Duane > > > > ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Luis & Theresa: Great ideas for making increased use of Ancestry.Com. Thank you. Cheers, Duane -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Entin [mailto:tentin@fullchannel.net] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 9:00 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] Need Help or Ideas, please Luis, thanks for the tips on using Ancestry. I've never thought of using wildcards, will try it for my people. Theresa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <luisbeal@yahoo.com> To: <PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] Need Help or Ideas, please > > Do you know jamie logsdon logsdonj@attbi.com? She put a post it note on > www.rootsweb.com in the california death index saying she thinks he may be > her grandfather, back in 2002. > When you search the census try switching the names around by writting the > last name in the first name box. I know there are a few census that have > been inputed backwards. Also if you search ancestry do a wildcard search, > you need the three first letters and then add an asterix like Dia* this > will look for any name that start with Dia and ends in Dias, Diam, > Diamante... whatever ending they have on the database, you can also use it > on the first name. Also you can type in Man?el and it will search Manuel, > Manoel... > You really have a lot on Manuel, if he only moved to the states in 1906-09 > he was probably still in Madeira up until then. The 1910 possible match is > that in Hawaii or CA? I think if you know where he was born, and hopefully > you know his parents' names, since he was married twice and one of the > records should state the parent's names, you are doing awsome. Personally > I would not worry too much about the rest. > As for the wife, what makes you sure she was not born in portugal and > immigrated to CA, maybe with siblings or by herself when she was older? > That would explain you not being able to track her down. What does the > marriage record say about her birthplace, 1917 should say something I > hope. Where did you find Frank and jane's names? It would be Francisco and > Joana in portuguese. Lawrence is not a portuguese name but it could be > translated as Lourenco (with the little comma under the c). Could they > have gone to Hawaii to get married because they wanted to be in a pretty > place without pesky relatives telling them what to wear, or serve, or who > to invite to the wedding? Sure sounds good to me!! > You do not have dead ends, you have a few holes in the ground that you > need to decide how important it is to fill them up. If you can easily go > back in time and track both their ancestors then all these holes will be > filling in is their timeline. It is an awsome thing to do but do not get > too stress out about it or toss it out the window. Move forward and every > now and then see if anything else has been made available online or on > film that will help you fill in the gaps. > > Luis Beal > > > > > > Jertamalz <jertamalz@comcast.net> wrote: > Hi Portuguese Experts, (all of you inspirational, exceptionally > knowledgeable and abundantly patient bunch of folks) > > > I have hit some dead ends.. I am wondering if any of you have any > suggestions, thoughts or comments for me (the slow kid in the class).. > There is a hole in time that I am unable to obtain any information for my > great grandparents: Their names (of course are Manuel Dias and Josephine > Lawrence) might as well be John and Jane Smith.. I have tried and keep > getting frustrated and set it aside. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > A Time Line For Manuel would look like: > > 1877-1880 Born in (Santa Cruz, Madeira, Portugal) > > 1906 or 09: census dates, which they listed as his immigration year (cant > prove this ?) > 1910: A possible match on the census: (but that is questionable ?) > > (have proof for the following) > 1917: (March): Marriage #1 Manuel and Josephine > 1917 (August): San Francisco Passenger List (Alien Pass.from Honolulu) > (Manuel (37) and Josephine(30) Married) > 1920: (40 yo) in Alameda, Calif. > 1927: Marriage #2 in Santa Clara, Calif. > 1930: (50 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. > 1940: No Census Yet Available > 1949: Died (about 72 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. > > > He supposedly came over to Hawaii and met Josephine and then married her > in Calif (which they did marry in Calif.)...Then there is a ship manifest > having both of them leaving Honolulu after the wedding date, going home to > Calif.... Where should I be looking for evidence of him in Hawaii ?? Where > can I or should I be looking for his departure from Portugal, and his > Arrival to Hawaii, and Likewise, his departure from Hawaii to the arrival > in the US? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > As for Josephine (Jossie, Josie) > > 1886 born rumored to be Portugal, But I now believe it to be Hilo, Hawaii > ?? (cant find proof of this) > > lose her also until: > > 1917 (Mar): 30 yo marriage in Oakland, Calif. > 1917 (Aug): Ship manifest to San Fran. from Honolulu > 1920: census: 33yo in Oakland, Calif. > 1927: Died at 41 yo > > I cant seem to find her or her family in Hawaii, either. Her parents are > both listed as born in Portugal. His name is Frank and hers is Johanna > /Jane ?? I don't understand if they were married and living in Calif. why > they went to Hawaii, unless it was to visit some Family?? > > > So I cant find them both for a 30 year span...I would think it would be > easy with census and ships manifests to locate them, must be I am not in > the right places?? > > Help :-) Before I toss them aside again, > Tammy > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 > > > ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Paulo- No, problem. Hijacking is OK in the name of sharing genealogy information . I do not have the individuals that you noted in your posting. Is the surname "PONTE," or "PONTES." Are these two different surnames, or is one just the plural of the other? Pat Paulo Gomes Jardim <darwin@spamcop.net> wrote: I apologize for hijacking your offer to Bob, but I've noticed now that I've two entire Pontes lineages that are still to explore... Perhaps you know this people: 1-Ant�nio de Pontes b. Cir 1720, Estreito da Calheta, , Madeira, Portugal married in Estreito da Calheta at 1745 to Quit�ria Maria b. Cir 1720, Estreito da Calheta, , Madeira, Portugal They had: 2-Jo�o de Pontes b. Cir 1750, Estreito da Calheta, , Madeira, Portugal married in C�mara de Lobos at 27 Sep 1783 to Ant�nia Maria b. Cir 1755, C�mara de Lobos, , Madeira, Portugal They had: 3-Maria Rosa b. Cir 1790, Esp�rito Santo, C�mara de Lobos, d. Bef 1856 and 1-Domingos de Pontes married in 1707, Ribeira Brava to Maria Gomes They had: 2-Joana Gomes, born c. 1710. in Ribeira Brava Both of those are my direct lineages. Paulo On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:32:57 -0800 (PST), Patricia Corbera wrote: > Hi Bob, > I have lost contact with Louise. Her cousin Laura is married to one of > my Madeira relatives, Manuel Ferreira Gomes, who is my 5th cousin 1 > generation removed, our common ancestor being Inacio de Ponte. Distant > in kinship, but still related. > If you think the "de Ponte," line is one that you may be interested in, > just let me know. They were mainly from Calheta. > . > Pat -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx Patricia Julia Silva Corbera A Journey of Discovery www.geocities.com/papagaia2

Luis, thanks for the tips on using Ancestry. I've never thought of using wildcards, will try it for my people. Theresa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <luisbeal@yahoo.com> To: <PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] Need Help or Ideas, please > > Do you know jamie logsdon logsdonj@attbi.com? She put a post it note on > www.rootsweb.com in the california death index saying she thinks he may be > her grandfather, back in 2002. > When you search the census try switching the names around by writting the > last name in the first name box. I know there are a few census that have > been inputed backwards. Also if you search ancestry do a wildcard search, > you need the three first letters and then add an asterix like Dia* this > will look for any name that start with Dia and ends in Dias, Diam, > Diamante... whatever ending they have on the database, you can also use it > on the first name. Also you can type in Man?el and it will search Manuel, > Manoel... > You really have a lot on Manuel, if he only moved to the states in 1906-09 > he was probably still in Madeira up until then. The 1910 possible match is > that in Hawaii or CA? I think if you know where he was born, and hopefully > you know his parents' names, since he was married twice and one of the > records should state the parent's names, you are doing awsome. Personally > I would not worry too much about the rest. > As for the wife, what makes you sure she was not born in portugal and > immigrated to CA, maybe with siblings or by herself when she was older? > That would explain you not being able to track her down. What does the > marriage record say about her birthplace, 1917 should say something I > hope. Where did you find Frank and jane's names? It would be Francisco and > Joana in portuguese. Lawrence is not a portuguese name but it could be > translated as Lourenco (with the little comma under the c). Could they > have gone to Hawaii to get married because they wanted to be in a pretty > place without pesky relatives telling them what to wear, or serve, or who > to invite to the wedding? Sure sounds good to me!! > You do not have dead ends, you have a few holes in the ground that you > need to decide how important it is to fill them up. If you can easily go > back in time and track both their ancestors then all these holes will be > filling in is their timeline. It is an awsome thing to do but do not get > too stress out about it or toss it out the window. Move forward and every > now and then see if anything else has been made available online or on > film that will help you fill in the gaps. > > Luis Beal > > > > > > Jertamalz <jertamalz@comcast.net> wrote: > Hi Portuguese Experts, (all of you inspirational, exceptionally > knowledgeable and abundantly patient bunch of folks) > > > I have hit some dead ends.. I am wondering if any of you have any > suggestions, thoughts or comments for me (the slow kid in the class).. > There is a hole in time that I am unable to obtain any information for my > great grandparents: Their names (of course are Manuel Dias and Josephine > Lawrence) might as well be John and Jane Smith.. I have tried and keep > getting frustrated and set it aside. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > A Time Line For Manuel would look like: > > 1877-1880 Born in (Santa Cruz, Madeira, Portugal) > > 1906 or 09: census dates, which they listed as his immigration year (cant > prove this ?) > 1910: A possible match on the census: (but that is questionable ?) > > (have proof for the following) > 1917: (March): Marriage #1 Manuel and Josephine > 1917 (August): San Francisco Passenger List (Alien Pass.from Honolulu) > (Manuel (37) and Josephine(30) Married) > 1920: (40 yo) in Alameda, Calif. > 1927: Marriage #2 in Santa Clara, Calif. > 1930: (50 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. > 1940: No Census Yet Available > 1949: Died (about 72 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. > > > He supposedly came over to Hawaii and met Josephine and then married her > in Calif (which they did marry in Calif.)...Then there is a ship manifest > having both of them leaving Honolulu after the wedding date, going home to > Calif.... Where should I be looking for evidence of him in Hawaii ?? Where > can I or should I be looking for his departure from Portugal, and his > Arrival to Hawaii, and Likewise, his departure from Hawaii to the arrival > in the US? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > As for Josephine (Jossie, Josie) > > 1886 born rumored to be Portugal, But I now believe it to be Hilo, Hawaii > ?? (cant find proof of this) > > lose her also until: > > 1917 (Mar): 30 yo marriage in Oakland, Calif. > 1917 (Aug): Ship manifest to San Fran. from Honolulu > 1920: census: 33yo in Oakland, Calif. > 1927: Died at 41 yo > > I cant seem to find her or her family in Hawaii, either. Her parents are > both listed as born in Portugal. His name is Frank and hers is Johanna > /Jane ?? I don't understand if they were married and living in Calif. why > they went to Hawaii, unless it was to visit some Family?? > > > So I cant find them both for a 30 year span...I would think it would be > easy with census and ships manifests to locate them, must be I am not in > the right places?? > > Help :-) Before I toss them aside again, > Tammy > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > >

Found Manuel in 1900, he is down on ancestry as Manuel Melia, wife Maria Luisa. He was born unknown in 1876, 24 years old, married 3 years, born Portugal, same for parents, immigrated in 1883 had been in the us 17 years and was naturalized a citizen, he could not read or write but could speak english and hawaiian. She was down as being born in Oct 1880, 19, married 3 years, had one child and 1 child was living, born Portugal same as parents, came in 1881, been in US 19 years, could not read or write, could not speak english or hawaiian. Daughter Maria, born sep 1899 in Hawaii. Luis Luis Beal <luisbeal@yahoo.com> wrote: Duane, I do not mean to burst your bubble because Curubina may be a possibility, but the numbers next to her name mean, birth year, age, married, how many children has had, and how many children are living at the time of the census and the number for later two is two. So this may not be your family. Why don't you give me more info on your Manuel, like what name did he go by, his spouse too, nicknames... If he had kids before 1910, names (firt and middle), ages, where they were living at the time of each census. I think if we find him in the 1900/10/20/30 there should be some leading information. Also do you know if he had siblings that came to the US? If he did do you know names and ages? Luis Duane DeMello wrote: Theresa: Thank you very much for your efforts to help me. Re Curubina M., I also have been searching under "Maria," "Magdelena," etc., in the event she went by her middle name. Today I am going to also check on the siblings. Cheers and best wishes, Duane -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Entin [mailto:tentin@fullchannel.net] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:42 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Re: Curubina Good Morning Duane, You've had a great find with Ancestry. Unfortunately, not good with me. I thought when I saw the name of his mother, that I wouldn't find it. Curubina, is not a name that I've found in S. Maria. It is funny, but there are certain last and first names that are not used in that region. I'm not saying that it is impossible for it to be there, but I don't have it. Can it be spelled differently? I will also do a little more checking in my material to see what I can come up with. Also, don't forget that you can search for his siblings and get the same information you need. best regards, Theresa I have CC this to the Azores and Madeira lists, to see if that name is familiar to any of the towns they are searching. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane DeMello" To: Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 3:30 PM > Theresa: > Sorry to bother you but I may have hit upon something with my > greatgrandparents, J. de Mello and C. de Mello (cited on my grandparents > marriage registration in Hilo: The 1900 Federal Census shows a Joao de > Mello (born 1838 in Portugal) married to Curubina M. de Mello, born 1836 > in > Portugal. No mention is made of the Azores. Two children were living > with > them, Jacintha C., born 1882 in Portugal, and Jose, born 1886 in Hawaii. > My > grandfather, Manuel, born 1875 in Portugal, moved out by 1900 (married in > 1897) and was starting his own family in Hilo. Manuel's death certificate > only lists the name of his father, "John" (Joao). > Can you check your Santa Maria listings? See what going back on > Ancestry.Com did for me! > > Cheers and best wishes, Duane > > > > ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Good Morning Duane, You've had a great find with Ancestry. Unfortunately, not good with me. I thought when I saw the name of his mother, that I wouldn't find it. Curubina, is not a name that I've found in S. Maria. It is funny, but there are certain last and first names that are not used in that region. I'm not saying that it is impossible for it to be there, but I don't have it. Can it be spelled differently? I will also do a little more checking in my material to see what I can come up with. Also, don't forget that you can search for his siblings and get the same information you need. best regards, Theresa I have CC this to the Azores and Madeira lists, to see if that name is familiar to any of the towns they are searching. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane DeMello" <CasaDeMello@comcast.net> To: <tentin@fullchannel.net> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 3:30 PM > Theresa: > Sorry to bother you but I may have hit upon something with my > greatgrandparents, J. de Mello and C. de Mello (cited on my grandparents > marriage registration in Hilo: The 1900 Federal Census shows a Joao de > Mello (born 1838 in Portugal) married to Curubina M. de Mello, born 1836 > in > Portugal. No mention is made of the Azores. Two children were living > with > them, Jacintha C., born 1882 in Portugal, and Jose, born 1886 in Hawaii. > My > grandfather, Manuel, born 1875 in Portugal, moved out by 1900 (married in > 1897) and was starting his own family in Hilo. Manuel's death certificate > only lists the name of his father, "John" (Joao). > Can you check your Santa Maria listings? See what going back on > Ancestry.Com did for me! > > Cheers and best wishes, Duane > > > >

Duane, I do not mean to burst your bubble because Curubina may be a possibility, but the numbers next to her name mean, birth year, age, married, how many children has had, and how many children are living at the time of the census and the number for later two is two. So this may not be your family. Why don't you give me more info on your Manuel, like what name did he go by, his spouse too, nicknames... If he had kids before 1910, names (firt and middle), ages, where they were living at the time of each census. I think if we find him in the 1900/10/20/30 there should be some leading information. Also do you know if he had siblings that came to the US? If he did do you know names and ages? Luis Duane DeMello <CasaDeMello@comcast.net> wrote: Theresa: Thank you very much for your efforts to help me. Re Curubina M., I also have been searching under "Maria," "Magdelena," etc., in the event she went by her middle name. Today I am going to also check on the siblings. Cheers and best wishes, Duane -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Entin [mailto:tentin@fullchannel.net] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:42 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Re: Curubina Good Morning Duane, You've had a great find with Ancestry. Unfortunately, not good with me. I thought when I saw the name of his mother, that I wouldn't find it. Curubina, is not a name that I've found in S. Maria. It is funny, but there are certain last and first names that are not used in that region. I'm not saying that it is impossible for it to be there, but I don't have it. Can it be spelled differently? I will also do a little more checking in my material to see what I can come up with. Also, don't forget that you can search for his siblings and get the same information you need. best regards, Theresa I have CC this to the Azores and Madeira lists, to see if that name is familiar to any of the towns they are searching. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane DeMello" To: Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 3:30 PM > Theresa: > Sorry to bother you but I may have hit upon something with my > greatgrandparents, J. de Mello and C. de Mello (cited on my grandparents > marriage registration in Hilo: The 1900 Federal Census shows a Joao de > Mello (born 1838 in Portugal) married to Curubina M. de Mello, born 1836 > in > Portugal. No mention is made of the Azores. Two children were living > with > them, Jacintha C., born 1882 in Portugal, and Jose, born 1886 in Hawaii. > My > grandfather, Manuel, born 1875 in Portugal, moved out by 1900 (married in > 1897) and was starting his own family in Hilo. Manuel's death certificate > only lists the name of his father, "John" (Joao). > Can you check your Santa Maria listings? See what going back on > Ancestry.Com did for me! > > Cheers and best wishes, Duane > > > > ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

On Friday 11 March 2005 10:55 pm, Paulo Gomes Jardim wrote: > Until the 60's and 70's the mentality here towards black people was quite   > different. Contrary to popular belief, they had not disappeared. We had   > "our" endemic blacks, which lived and worked as everyone else with no   > distinction or prejudice. Not sure if I am getting off-topic, but I have some photos of relatives from the 20's or 30's that show a very racially-mixed group. Not sure if they were all chums or what. hey all look very friendly in the photos. Even passing around shots! (maybe wine? - dunno.) ~jeff

One more thing, Josephine = Josefina if she was born in portugal. Luis Luis Beal <luisbeal@yahoo.com> wrote: Do you know jamie logsdon logsdonj@attbi.com? She put a post it note on www.rootsweb.com in the california death index saying she thinks he may be her grandfather, back in 2002. When you search the census try switching the names around by writting the last name in the first name box. I know there are a few census that have been inputed backwards. Also if you search ancestry do a wildcard search, you need the three first letters and then add an asterix like Dia* this will look for any name that start with Dia and ends in Dias, Diam, Diamante... whatever ending they have on the database, you can also use it on the first name. Also you can type in Man?el and it will search Manuel, Manoel... You really have a lot on Manuel, if he only moved to the states in 1906-09 he was probably still in Madeira up until then. The 1910 possible match is that in Hawaii or CA? I think if you know where he was born, and hopefully you know his parents' names, since he was married twice and one of the records should state the parent's names, you are doing awsome. Personally I would not worry too much about the rest. As for the wife, what makes you sure she was not born in portugal and immigrated to CA, maybe with siblings or by herself when she was older? That would explain you not being able to track her down. What does the marriage record say about her birthplace, 1917 should say something I hope. Where did you find Frank and jane's names? It would be Francisco and Joana in portuguese. Lawrence is not a portuguese name but it could be translated as Lourenco (with the little comma under the c). Could they have gone to Hawaii to get married because they wanted to be in a pretty place without pesky relatives telling them what to wear, or serve, or who to invite to the wedding? Sure sounds good to me!! You do not have dead ends, you have a few holes in the ground that you need to decide how important it is to fill them up. If you can easily go back in time and track both their ancestors then all these holes will be filling in is their timeline. It is an awsome thing to do but do not get too stress out about it or toss it out the window. Move forward and every now and then see if anything else has been made available online or on film that will help you fill in the gaps. Luis Beal Jertamalz wrote: Hi Portuguese Experts, (all of you inspirational, exceptionally knowledgeable and abundantly patient bunch of folks) I have hit some dead ends.. I am wondering if any of you have any suggestions, thoughts or comments for me (the slow kid in the class).. There is a hole in time that I am unable to obtain any information for my great grandparents: Their names (of course are Manuel Dias and Josephine Lawrence) might as well be John and Jane Smith.. I have tried and keep getting frustrated and set it aside. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Time Line For Manuel would look like: 1877-1880 Born in (Santa Cruz, Madeira, Portugal) 1906 or 09: census dates, which they listed as his immigration year (cant prove this ?) 1910: A possible match on the census: (but that is questionable ?) (have proof for the following) 1917: (March): Marriage #1 Manuel and Josephine 1917 (August): San Francisco Passenger List (Alien Pass.from Honolulu) (Manuel (37) and Josephine(30) Married) 1920: (40 yo) in Alameda, Calif. 1927: Marriage #2 in Santa Clara, Calif. 1930: (50 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. 1940: No Census Yet Available 1949: Died (about 72 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. He supposedly came over to Hawaii and met Josephine and then married her in Calif (which they did marry in Calif.)...Then there is a ship manifest having both of them leaving Honolulu after the wedding date, going home to Calif.... Where should I be looking for evidence of him in Hawaii ?? Where can I or should I be looking for his departure from Portugal, and his Arrival to Hawaii, and Likewise, his departure from Hawaii to the arrival in the US? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for Josephine (Jossie, Josie) 1886 born rumored to be Portugal, But I now believe it to be Hilo, Hawaii ?? (cant find proof of this) lose her also until: 1917 (Mar): 30 yo marriage in Oakland, Calif. 1917 (Aug): Ship manifest to San Fran. from Honolulu 1920: census: 33yo in Oakland, Calif. 1927: Died at 41 yo I cant seem to find her or her family in Hawaii, either. Her parents are both listed as born in Portugal. His name is Frank and hers is Johanna /Jane ?? I don't understand if they were married and living in Calif. why they went to Hawaii, unless it was to visit some Family?? So I cant find them both for a 30 year span...I would think it would be easy with census and ships manifests to locate them, must be I am not in the right places?? Help :-) Before I toss them aside again, Tammy ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Do you know jamie logsdon logsdonj@attbi.com? She put a post it note on www.rootsweb.com in the california death index saying she thinks he may be her grandfather, back in 2002. When you search the census try switching the names around by writting the last name in the first name box. I know there are a few census that have been inputed backwards. Also if you search ancestry do a wildcard search, you need the three first letters and then add an asterix like Dia* this will look for any name that start with Dia and ends in Dias, Diam, Diamante... whatever ending they have on the database, you can also use it on the first name. Also you can type in Man?el and it will search Manuel, Manoel... You really have a lot on Manuel, if he only moved to the states in 1906-09 he was probably still in Madeira up until then. The 1910 possible match is that in Hawaii or CA? I think if you know where he was born, and hopefully you know his parents' names, since he was married twice and one of the records should state the parent's names, you are doing awsome. Personally I would not worry too much about the rest. As for the wife, what makes you sure she was not born in portugal and immigrated to CA, maybe with siblings or by herself when she was older? That would explain you not being able to track her down. What does the marriage record say about her birthplace, 1917 should say something I hope. Where did you find Frank and jane's names? It would be Francisco and Joana in portuguese. Lawrence is not a portuguese name but it could be translated as Lourenco (with the little comma under the c). Could they have gone to Hawaii to get married because they wanted to be in a pretty place without pesky relatives telling them what to wear, or serve, or who to invite to the wedding? Sure sounds good to me!! You do not have dead ends, you have a few holes in the ground that you need to decide how important it is to fill them up. If you can easily go back in time and track both their ancestors then all these holes will be filling in is their timeline. It is an awsome thing to do but do not get too stress out about it or toss it out the window. Move forward and every now and then see if anything else has been made available online or on film that will help you fill in the gaps. Luis Beal Jertamalz <jertamalz@comcast.net> wrote: Hi Portuguese Experts, (all of you inspirational, exceptionally knowledgeable and abundantly patient bunch of folks) I have hit some dead ends.. I am wondering if any of you have any suggestions, thoughts or comments for me (the slow kid in the class).. There is a hole in time that I am unable to obtain any information for my great grandparents: Their names (of course are Manuel Dias and Josephine Lawrence) might as well be John and Jane Smith.. I have tried and keep getting frustrated and set it aside. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Time Line For Manuel would look like: 1877-1880 Born in (Santa Cruz, Madeira, Portugal) 1906 or 09: census dates, which they listed as his immigration year (cant prove this ?) 1910: A possible match on the census: (but that is questionable ?) (have proof for the following) 1917: (March): Marriage #1 Manuel and Josephine 1917 (August): San Francisco Passenger List (Alien Pass.from Honolulu) (Manuel (37) and Josephine(30) Married) 1920: (40 yo) in Alameda, Calif. 1927: Marriage #2 in Santa Clara, Calif. 1930: (50 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. 1940: No Census Yet Available 1949: Died (about 72 yo) in Santa Clara, Calif. He supposedly came over to Hawaii and met Josephine and then married her in Calif (which they did marry in Calif.)...Then there is a ship manifest having both of them leaving Honolulu after the wedding date, going home to Calif.... Where should I be looking for evidence of him in Hawaii ?? Where can I or should I be looking for his departure from Portugal, and his Arrival to Hawaii, and Likewise, his departure from Hawaii to the arrival in the US? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for Josephine (Jossie, Josie) 1886 born rumored to be Portugal, But I now believe it to be Hilo, Hawaii ?? (cant find proof of this) lose her also until: 1917 (Mar): 30 yo marriage in Oakland, Calif. 1917 (Aug): Ship manifest to San Fran. from Honolulu 1920: census: 33yo in Oakland, Calif. 1927: Died at 41 yo I cant seem to find her or her family in Hawaii, either. Her parents are both listed as born in Portugal. His name is Frank and hers is Johanna /Jane ?? I don't understand if they were married and living in Calif. why they went to Hawaii, unless it was to visit some Family?? So I cant find them both for a 30 year span...I would think it would be easy with census and ships manifests to locate them, must be I am not in the right places?? Help :-) Before I toss them aside again, Tammy ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Information on this family can be found in " Nobiliario da Ilha da Madeira." Under the "titulo" Coutos Cardosos. http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/familiapaiva/NobiliariodaIlhadaMadeira/coutos_cardosos.htm As well as the "titulo," for the Cabraes. http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/familiapaiva/NobiliariodaIlhadaMadeira/cabraes.htm Pat Luis Beal <luisbeal@yahoo.com> wrote: This is how I read the document: D. Joana de Couto Cardoso, N. (for Nascida, born) 1598, B. (for batizada, baptized) in Calheta, L. 4 (livro 4, 4th book) on Sep 11th 1599, c.c. married to Manuel Cabral de Aguiar, in title of Cortes. Then if you go to page 294v, #4 it says Manuel married Joana on July 2nd 1622 in Calheta. It actually begins by saying that after he became a widow he became a priest (clerigo). On a side note says: I think he married D. Joanna d'Andrade, daughter of Joao de Franca e Castro, in title of Francas e Castro, N3, 1,pg 295v. He has the very same marriage date for this latter Joana as for the first one which means you need to get some microfilms and figure out which one he really married. Abbreviations: N-nascido/a - born; B- batisada/o - baptism; CC- casou com - married; M- morreu - died; tt- titulo- title;; f- folha - page; 294 - page 294; 294v - back of page 294. Hope that helps. Luis Beal M B wrote: This is the best I could transcribe an online record. Can anyone tell me what the year 1598 may be a reference to? 1599? The letter looks like a capital "N," but it can't be a birth date since she got married in 1599--or not? What does the "B" mean? D. Joanna de Couto Cardoso, N. 1598, B. na Calheta, L. 4., en 11 de Sept de 1599, c.c. Manuel Cabral d'Aguiar, en tto de Cortes..... (Miranda's Apontamentos para a Genealogia de Diversas Familias da Madeira, p. 308) According to Noronho's "Nobiliario," Joana was born 1590, and no marriage date was given. Maybe I am misunderstanding or misreading Miranda's handwritten notes. Any theories would be much appreciated! Michelle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx Patricia Julia Silva Corbera A Journey of Discovery www.geocities.com/papagaia2

This is how I read the document: D. Joana de Couto Cardoso, N. (for Nascida, born) 1598, B. (for batizada, baptized) in Calheta, L. 4 (livro 4, 4th book) on Sep 11th 1599, c.c. married to Manuel Cabral de Aguiar, in title of Cortes. Then if you go to page 294v, #4 it says Manuel married Joana on July 2nd 1622 in Calheta. It actually begins by saying that after he became a widow he became a priest (clerigo). On a side note says: I think he married D. Joanna d'Andrade, daughter of Joao de Franca e Castro, in title of Francas e Castro, N3, 1,pg 295v. He has the very same marriage date for this latter Joana as for the first one which means you need to get some microfilms and figure out which one he really married. Abbreviations: N-nascido/a - born; B- batisada/o - baptism; CC- casou com - married; M- morreu - died; tt- titulo- title;; f- folha - page; 294 - page 294; 294v - back of page 294. Hope that helps. Luis Beal M B <mb_mhamid@yahoo.com> wrote: This is the best I could transcribe an online record. Can anyone tell me what the year 1598 may be a reference to? 1599? The letter looks like a capital "N," but it can't be a birth date since she got married in 1599--or not? What does the "B" mean? D. Joanna de Couto Cardoso, N. 1598, B. na Calheta, L. 4., en 11 de Sept de 1599, c.c. Manuel Cabral d'Aguiar, en tto de Cortes..... (Miranda's Apontamentos para a Genealogia de Diversas Familias da Madeira, p. 308) According to Noronho's "Nobiliario," Joana was born 1590, and no marriage date was given. Maybe I am misunderstanding or misreading Miranda's handwritten notes. Any theories would be much appreciated! Michelle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page

Esquire? ---------- > From: Paulo Gomes Jardim > It was not out of logic, as the Morgado would indeed always be the eldest > son. > I believe there is an English equivalent to that word, but I don't know > what it is... > Earl, perhaps? > > Paulo > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:00:17 -0800 (PST), Patricia Corbera > <papagaia2@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > As pointed out by Paulo and my "confusion" with > > the word Morgado. > > Pat > > > > -- > " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- > Horacio > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Paulo - I will save this information. I might find that my de Pontes were in Calheta before São Vicente. Pat - Thanks for the offer; I will keep it in mind. Here's all I have so far: Manuel Francisco de Pontes, born 1851 in São Vicente. Son of Joao Francisco de Pontes and Maria Antónia, married in São Vicente in 1834. Bob -------------- Original message -------------- > I apologize for hijacking your offer to Bob, but I've noticed now that > I've two entire Pontes lineages that are still to explore... > > Perhaps you know this people: > > 1-António de Pontes b. Cir 1720, Estreito da Calheta, , Madeira, Portugal > married in Estreito da Calheta at 1745 to > Quitéria Maria b. Cir 1720, Estreito da Calheta, , Madeira, Portugal > > They had: > 2-João de Pontes b. Cir 1750, Estreito da Calheta, , Madeira, Portugal > married in Câmara de Lobos at 27 Sep 1783 to > Antónia Maria b. Cir 1755, Câmara de Lobos, , Madeira, Portugal > > They had: > 3-Maria Rosa b. Cir 1790, Espírito Santo, Câmara de Lobos, d. Bef 1856 > > > and > > 1-Domingos de Pontes > married in 1707, Ribeira Brava to > Maria Gomes > > They had: > 2-Joana Gomes, born c. 1710. in Ribeira Brava > > > > Both of those are my direct lineages. > > Paulo > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:32:57 -0800 (PST), Patricia Corbera > wrote: > > > Hi Bob, > > I have lost contact with Louise. Her cousin Laura is married to one of > > my Madeira relatives, Manuel Ferreira Gomes, who is my 5th cousin 1 > > generation removed, our common ancestor being Inacio de Ponte. Distant > > in kinship, but still related. > > If you think the "de Ponte," line is one that you may be interested in, > > just let me know. They were mainly from Calheta. > > . > > Pat > > > > > -- > " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- > Horacio > > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >