For the past couple of days when I try to access the marriage record base of ARM I get this message... has anyone else experienced this? Pat Microsoft JET Database Engine error '80004005' Cannot open database ''. It may not be a database that your application recognizes, or the file may be corrupt. /bds/ASP/Ccasamentossrch.asp, line 92 Patricia Julia Silva Corbera A Journey of Discovery www.geocities.com/papagaia2

Well...I guess I should have actually tried it before speaking!!! Apparantly they have changed the website address I always used... www.nesos.net is not a working address at all right now. I even tried going in the backdoor http://www.ceha-madeira.net/ but when you click on NESOS it doesn't find anything again.... I'm not quite sure what is going on. I will check my bookmark when I get home tonight and see if that link works. Cece -----Original Message----- From: Paulo Gomes Jardim [mailto:darwin@spamcop.net] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 3:21 PM To: cece@soccer4all.com; PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] NESOS website down... You mean that right now NESOS is up to you over there? I swear that every working day at 20 o'clock local time I stop seeing it, and it goes on that way during weekends and hollydays... Argh. Paulo On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:57:36 -0600, Cece Camara <cece@soccer4all.com> wrote: > Paulo, > The NESOS site used to only allow visitors during certain hours...but > that > seems to have changed from here. I can now access it anytime it seems. > My question, is what are we going to do about ARM...their database is up > 1 > day down the next 3...its driving me crazy!!! > Cece > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paulo Gomes Jardim [mailto:darwin@spamcop.net] > Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 2:52 PM > To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] NESOS website down... > > > Hi, > > Is it me, or the NESOS website seem to be working on a "clerk" kind of > timetable? > It goes down precisely at 20.00 GMT everyday, and it's closed on weekends > and hollydays... > Makes one wonder if there's a little man inside that machine that makes > it > work, and everything stops everytime he goes home... > > Paulo > > -- > " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- > Horacio > > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Paulo, The NESOS site used to only allow visitors during certain hours...but that seems to have changed from here. I can now access it anytime it seems. My question, is what are we going to do about ARM...their database is up 1 day down the next 3...its driving me crazy!!! Cece -----Original Message----- From: Paulo Gomes Jardim [mailto:darwin@spamcop.net] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 2:52 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] NESOS website down... Hi, Is it me, or the NESOS website seem to be working on a "clerk" kind of timetable? It goes down precisely at 20.00 GMT everyday, and it's closed on weekends and hollydays... Makes one wonder if there's a little man inside that machine that makes it work, and everything stops everytime he goes home... Paulo -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

David, Don't know what Paulo will tell you, but Ed & I visited Madeira last summer & had a rental car. We wouldn't have done it any other way. You will miss so much if you are not able to get out and around anytime you want. Plus I can't imagine driving some of those roads with a local...never mind a local Taxi driver!!! Getting around was really easy. The cost of renting a car was very reasonable. We only used taxis when we were actually in Funchal...after parking...and after becoming exhausted! If you have any other questions about Madeira...feel free to ask. I'm sure Paulo will be able to tell you about getting around during a holiday and not to miss festivities. We wish you a wonderful trip! Cece -----Original Message----- From: david-nancy.degrella@juno.com [mailto:david-nancy.degrella@juno.com] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 8:49 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Coming to Madeira Paulo, I have taken the liberty to write you directly as I have some questions that you may be able to help answer. We are coming to Madeira April 23 for just four days. We are planning ahead to get the most out of our short stay. We have booked a full day tour on April 24 for the eastern end of the island. We plan to explore the western end on our own. We want to go to Arco da Calheta (the home of my great grandfather). We also want to go to Paul da Serra to hike to some waterfalls. We understand that it would be difficult to do this by bus. Can we do this by taxi or would it be better to hire a car? Will the celebration of April 25 interfere with getting around? Is there any parade or other festivity on April 25 that you would recommend we see? I have more question but I do not want over burden you. I appreciate your help. Obrigado, David Tennessee, USA Searching for Agrela, Silva, Nobrega ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Paulo, I have taken the liberty to write you directly as I have some questions that you may be able to help answer. We are coming to Madeira April 23 for just four days. We are planning ahead to get the most out of our short stay. We have booked a full day tour on April 24 for the eastern end of the island. We plan to explore the western end on our own. We want to go to Arco da Calheta (the home of my great grandfather). We also want to go to Paul da Serra to hike to some waterfalls. We understand that it would be difficult to do this by bus. Can we do this by taxi or would it be better to hire a car? Will the celebration of April 25 interfere with getting around? Is there any parade or other festivity on April 25 that you would recommend we see? I have more question but I do not want over burden you. I appreciate your help. Obrigado, David Tennessee, USA Searching for Agrela, Silva, Nobrega

Hello, I wonder if anyone has researched this family, namely the connection between Catarina Homem, married to António Afonso Falcão at 1585 and the other Homems de Gouveia featured on the known nobiliaries? Paulo -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

With Mary's permission, I'm sharing this e-mail with the "group, " that she had sent to me. Pat ============ Mary wrote: My paternal grandparents emigrated to US in 1920. They brought with them three sons. I am the youngest daughter of the youngest son.I never knew my grandparents as my grandfather died at a very young age and my grandmother returned to Portugal and died there. I have birth and marriage records on both of my grandparents: Alvaro Tertuliano da Silva b1886 Funchal, d1924 in Fall River MA (first born) Ema Emerlinda da Costa Ferreira b1883 Funchal Madeira , d1948 Lisboa (last child of three) married 1907 Coimbra, Portugal Parents of Alvaro: Pedro Gomes da Silva b 1833, Funchal (have copy of birth record) d 1909? Funchal Maria Barbora (sometimes spelled Barbara) b? freguesia de Santa Luzia married date? Parents of Ema: Francisco Joaquim da Costa Ferreira b? Porto, Portugal Theodolinda Augusta de Freitas b 1835 Machico (saw birth record in church in Machico) married date ? Parents of Pedro Gomes da Silva: Manoel Jose da Silva b 1833 Funchal single, freguesia de Nossa Senhora da Luz Joaquina Rosa ______b ? single, freguesia de Nossa Senhora de Monte living in Sa Pedro- she came forward in 1859 to acknowledge being the mother of Pedro. I have some interesting documentation for this. Parents of Maria Barbora: Damiao Ribiero e Maria Vieira That is as far back as I have gone there. While on my honeymoon in Madeira in 2002, I went to the church of Santa Luzia but it was locked. I went to the church in Machico where the nun showed me the book and page where the baptism of Ema's mother Theodolinda was recorded in 1835. I did not have a digital camera nor was a copy machine available. So I wrote down the information. Theodolinda's family was from Machico and the surrounding areas. I do not have a lot of supporting documentation but I believe that I can track the marriages through the registry and the marriage "book" back to early 1700s and late 1600s. From Machico the family names are da Freitas (Freytas) da Costa da Matta Furtado de Mendonca Alvarez Perreira (Perreyra) de Lima Vieira da Silva I have some records for some of the marriages but no birth records. I am getting a new computer soon and hope to be able to spend more time digging. Thank you for your time and assistance. Mary da Silva Frost Cece Camara <cece@soccer4all.com> wrote: Mary, The baptisms are not online. We are all thankful that the marriages are...as you can see they are very helpful, and give you the information you need to find the record on the microfilm. As Luis said, that is the way most of us do our research. It is much more productive than writing away for copies. And you can learn so much from a single roll. And no, you cannot order the marriage copies online at ARM. Although they do give the pricing on the ARM site...it is mainly so you know how much to send in when requesting a copy or lookup. If you have any other questions about ordering films from LDS please just ask! By the way...what parish are you searching under and what surnames...just curious as always!!! Cece -----Original Message----- From: Luis Beal [mailto:luisbeal@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:39 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] ordering copies?? Where did you get the pricing information? The way most of us check out the records is through microfilms that we order from our local Family History Center. You can check out which microfilms they have on this site: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp do a place search, input "madeira" part of "portugal", then select "portugal, madeira, ilha" then go to church records, and select the parish you need. Then on top there will be a box that says "view film notes" click on it and it will show you the years and records available. Printout that page and take it to your local FHCenter. They will order it for you for $3.25, and the best thing is that in one microfilm you may find more than just one record of your family. You can find your local center on this page: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp. I just ordered one microfilm to look up one ancestor and once I had her parents names I was able to find eight more ancestors and climb three generations because the microfilm covered a wide span of years. Have fun. Luis Beal MaryH1017@aol.com wrote: Hello all. I want to thank everyone who has been posting lately. It gave me the incentive to try to find time to dive in again. I have been away from the research for ages after running up against some brick walls. I have gone to the ARM site and found an index for a marriage possibly in my tree. Now that I have found it, is there a way to order online? My Portuguese is not strong. I think I understand the pricing for research- free first 30 min, 15 euros first hour, 30 euros 2 hours and for church records-11.70 euros? IN the past I wrote directly to the archives and waited for a response. Now that these things are online I thought maybe I could order online. Also- is there an index for baptism records, and if so, how do I access it? BTW- I followed the posted advice from Cece and Luis about how to work with the search on the ARM marriage base and I think I blasted through a block up in my family tree. I need to order a marriage record to be sure. Also- anyone know if there is a way to get information regarding Ilha Graciosa in Acores? Seems a gg grandfather came from Ilha Graciosa- Nossa Senhora da Luz. Thanks again to all. Mary da Silva Frost ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx Patricia Julia Silva Corbera A Journey of Discovery www.geocities.com/papagaia2

Mary, The baptisms are not online. We are all thankful that the marriages are...as you can see they are very helpful, and give you the information you need to find the record on the microfilm. As Luis said, that is the way most of us do our research. It is much more productive than writing away for copies. And you can learn so much from a single roll. And no, you cannot order the marriage copies online at ARM. Although they do give the pricing on the ARM site...it is mainly so you know how much to send in when requesting a copy or lookup. If you have any other questions about ordering films from LDS please just ask! By the way...what parish are you searching under and what surnames...just curious as always!!! Cece -----Original Message----- From: Luis Beal [mailto:luisbeal@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:39 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] ordering copies?? Where did you get the pricing information? The way most of us check out the records is through microfilms that we order from our local Family History Center. You can check out which microfilms they have on this site: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp do a place search, input "madeira" part of "portugal", then select "portugal, madeira, ilha" then go to church records, and select the parish you need. Then on top there will be a box that says "view film notes" click on it and it will show you the years and records available. Printout that page and take it to your local FHCenter. They will order it for you for $3.25, and the best thing is that in one microfilm you may find more than just one record of your family. You can find your local center on this page: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp. I just ordered one microfilm to look up one ancestor and once I had her parents names I was able to find eight more ancestors and climb three generations because the microfilm covered a wide span of years. Have fun. Luis Beal MaryH1017@aol.com wrote: Hello all. I want to thank everyone who has been posting lately. It gave me the incentive to try to find time to dive in again. I have been away from the research for ages after running up against some brick walls. I have gone to the ARM site and found an index for a marriage possibly in my tree. Now that I have found it, is there a way to order online? My Portuguese is not strong. I think I understand the pricing for research- free first 30 min, 15 euros first hour, 30 euros 2 hours and for church records-11.70 euros? IN the past I wrote directly to the archives and waited for a response. Now that these things are online I thought maybe I could order online. Also- is there an index for baptism records, and if so, how do I access it? BTW- I followed the posted advice from Cece and Luis about how to work with the search on the ARM marriage base and I think I blasted through a block up in my family tree. I need to order a marriage record to be sure. Also- anyone know if there is a way to get information regarding Ilha Graciosa in Acores? Seems a gg grandfather came from Ilha Graciosa- Nossa Senhora da Luz. Thanks again to all. Mary da Silva Frost ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Hello all. I want to thank everyone who has been posting lately. It gave me the incentive to try to find time to dive in again. I have been away from the research for ages after running up against some brick walls. I have gone to the ARM site and found an index for a marriage possibly in my tree. Now that I have found it, is there a way to order online? My Portuguese is not strong. I think I understand the pricing for research- free first 30 min, 15 euros first hour, 30 euros 2 hours and for church records-11.70 euros? IN the past I wrote directly to the archives and waited for a response. Now that these things are online I thought maybe I could order online. Also- is there an index for baptism records, and if so, how do I access it? BTW- I followed the posted advice from Cece and Luis about how to work with the search on the ARM marriage base and I think I blasted through a block up in my family tree. I need to order a marriage record to be sure. Also- anyone know if there is a way to get information regarding Ilha Graciosa in Acores? Seems a gg grandfather came from Ilha Graciosa- Nossa Senhora da Luz. Thanks again to all. Mary da Silva Frost

Where did you get the pricing information? The way most of us check out the records is through microfilms that we order from our local Family History Center. You can check out which microfilms they have on this site: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp do a place search, input "madeira" part of "portugal", then select "portugal, madeira, ilha" then go to church records, and select the parish you need. Then on top there will be a box that says "view film notes" click on it and it will show you the years and records available. Printout that page and take it to your local FHCenter. They will order it for you for $3.25, and the best thing is that in one microfilm you may find more than just one record of your family. You can find your local center on this page: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp. I just ordered one microfilm to look up one ancestor and once I had her parents names I was able to find eight more ancestors and climb three generations because the microfilm covered a wide span of years. Have fun. Luis Beal MaryH1017@aol.com wrote: Hello all. I want to thank everyone who has been posting lately. It gave me the incentive to try to find time to dive in again. I have been away from the research for ages after running up against some brick walls. I have gone to the ARM site and found an index for a marriage possibly in my tree. Now that I have found it, is there a way to order online? My Portuguese is not strong. I think I understand the pricing for research- free first 30 min, 15 euros first hour, 30 euros 2 hours and for church records-11.70 euros? IN the past I wrote directly to the archives and waited for a response. Now that these things are online I thought maybe I could order online. Also- is there an index for baptism records, and if so, how do I access it? BTW- I followed the posted advice from Cece and Luis about how to work with the search on the ARM marriage base and I think I blasted through a block up in my family tree. I need to order a marriage record to be sure. Also- anyone know if there is a way to get information regarding Ilha Graciosa in Acores? Seems a gg grandfather came from Ilha Graciosa- Nossa Senhora da Luz. Thanks again to all. Mary da Silva Frost ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

As Eduardo Pereira pointed out on his book Ilhas de Zarco, the blood and gene mixtures on Madeira sometimes produce this kind of thing on the most unexpected places. My mother says that the most phisically perfect male specimen she saw on her entire life was a fisherman from Santa Cruz, who acted and looked truly like a royal prince (even when selling the fish), at least until he opened his mouth. Ronaldo's type is quite common among the Câmara de Lobos fisherman, perhaps that's where his origins are. Paulo On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:51:12 -0600, Cece Camara <cece@soccer4all.com> wrote: > Okay I have to say something way off subject here...for anyone who > doesn't > know who Cristiano Ronaldo is, > have yourselves a good look here...a more perfect specimen of a Madeiran > male, I don't think exists!!! > http://www.cristiano-ronaldo.com/ > aahhhhh.........if only I were 19 again........(oh yeah and single...!!!) > LOL > Cece -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Denise, This record was writen on blue paper, perhaps that's why the copy is hard to read. The original, however, is very clear. It says the groom was 31 years old, as you probably know, and that he was christened on Stº António, thus you'll probably find him on the 1842 christening records of that parish. I also saw that both bride and groom signed the paper, thus they knew how to read and write, a good signal of their social position. Another interesting thing I noticed was that both witnesses, brothers of the bride, I believe, were single and lived on Terra Chã, where I presume her father's house was located. Terra Chã is very close to this place where I live, near the Stº Antonio Cemetary. It now is ridden with social, poor class barrios (you may know the famous football player, Cristiano Ronaldo, that's where he was born), but it was once - until 20 years ago - a land of farms and rural mannors, some of them still exist. The record doesn't say that Manuel Pereira de Oliveira and Maria Rosa married on 1858, but I could only find one record with those names on teh ARM database, and it was on Stº António, at 1858. You'll not see it on the online database with the wife's name writen as "Antónia Rosa do Monte", but there's a note on that record that says that her name is writen on the record's border as "Maria Rosa do Monte". BTW, the record doesn't says that Manuel was from S. Martinho and Maria Rosa from Stº António, if I got it right. It says that the bride's parents were from S. Martinho, and the groom's parents from Stº António, living on Quinta do Leme (but not on the "Quinta" itself, I believe). I've already traced these Pereira de Oliveiras until mid 16th century (where they were called MARTINS), and there's not a drop of English blood as far as I know, but it is still possible - though not probable - that your specific branch has at some point married an English woman. If I were you, the next thing I would do on this line would be to check the christening records for the year 1842 on Stº António. Paulo On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:05:07 EST, <TARA1197@aol.com> wrote: > Hello Paulo, > In 1989 we were in Madeira and got a copy of the certificate of Maria > Carolina and Manuel. I have it right here in front of me. The copy is > very hard > to read and I never noticed the problem you mentioned...Where did you > see that > they were married in 1858? Manuel's parents were Manuel Pereira > d'Oliveira > and Maria Rosa. Manuel was from Sao Martinho and Maria Rosa from Santo > Antonio. I don't have any other information on his family. The only > thing my > grandfather was always told was that his mothers family was originally > from > England and so far I have not been able to prove that. The Pereira > d'Oliveira > and Lopes Serrao are her family. I checked ARM and I can't find > anything for > Manuel and Maria Rosa. Please let me know what you find out. One other > thing I remember is that he said he was not an immediate relative of > the Pereira > de Oliveira's that make the wine, but were supposed to be somehow > connected, > they didn't know how. > Denise > In a message dated 3/16/2005 11:53:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > darwin@spamcop.net writes: > > Denise, > > I've seen the marriage record for Manuel Pereira de Oliveira and Maria > Carolina, and there is a problem. > The groom is said to be born on 1842, but their parents seem to be > married > at 1858, when he was already 16 years old. > I'll check the 1858 record anyway, as I'm interested on that Pereira de > Oliveira family, but do you find this to be probable, from what you know > about your family history? > > Paulo > > > > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Okay I have to say something way off subject here...for anyone who doesn't know who Cristiano Ronaldo is, have yourselves a good look here...a more perfect specimen of a Madeiran male, I don't think exists!!! http://www.cristiano-ronaldo.com/ aahhhhh.........if only I were 19 again........(oh yeah and single...!!!) LOL Cece -----Original Message----- From: Paulo Gomes Jardim [mailto:darwin@spamcop.net] Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 4:32 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] Pereira de Oliveira problem Denise, This record was writen on blue paper, perhaps that's why the copy is hard to read. The original, however, is very clear. It says the groom was 31 years old, as you probably know, and that he was christened on Stº António, thus you'll probably find him on the 1842 christening records of that parish. I also saw that both bride and groom signed the paper, thus they knew how to read and write, a good signal of their social position. Another interesting thing I noticed was that both witnesses, brothers of the bride, I believe, were single and lived on Terra Chã, where I presume her father's house was located. Terra Chã is very close to this place where I live, near the Stº Antonio Cemetary. It now is ridden with social, poor class barrios (you may know the famous football player, Cristiano Ronaldo, that's where he was born), but it was once - until 20 years ago - a land of farms and rural mannors, some of them still exist. The record doesn't say that Manuel Pereira de Oliveira and Maria Rosa married on 1858, but I could only find one record with those names on teh ARM database, and it was on Stº António, at 1858. You'll not see it on the online database with the wife's name writen as "Antónia Rosa do Monte", but there's a note on that record that says that her name is writen on the record's border as "Maria Rosa do Monte". BTW, the record doesn't says that Manuel was from S. Martinho and Maria Rosa from Stº António, if I got it right. It says that the bride's parents were from S. Martinho, and the groom's parents from Stº António, living on Quinta do Leme (but not on the "Quinta" itself, I believe). I've already traced these Pereira de Oliveiras until mid 16th century (where they were called MARTINS), and there's not a drop of English blood as far as I know, but it is still possible - though not probable - that your specific branch has at some point married an English woman. If I were you, the next thing I would do on this line would be to check the christening records for the year 1842 on Stº António. Paulo On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:05:07 EST, <TARA1197@aol.com> wrote: > Hello Paulo, > In 1989 we were in Madeira and got a copy of the certificate of Maria > Carolina and Manuel. I have it right here in front of me. The copy is > very hard > to read and I never noticed the problem you mentioned...Where did you > see that > they were married in 1858? Manuel's parents were Manuel Pereira > d'Oliveira > and Maria Rosa. Manuel was from Sao Martinho and Maria Rosa from Santo > Antonio. I don't have any other information on his family. The only > thing my > grandfather was always told was that his mothers family was originally > from > England and so far I have not been able to prove that. The Pereira > d'Oliveira > and Lopes Serrao are her family. I checked ARM and I can't find > anything for > Manuel and Maria Rosa. Please let me know what you find out. One other > thing I remember is that he said he was not an immediate relative of > the Pereira > de Oliveira's that make the wine, but were supposed to be somehow > connected, > they didn't know how. > Denise > In a message dated 3/16/2005 11:53:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > darwin@spamcop.net writes: > > Denise, > > I've seen the marriage record for Manuel Pereira de Oliveira and Maria > Carolina, and there is a problem. > The groom is said to be born on 1842, but their parents seem to be > married > at 1858, when he was already 16 years old. > I'll check the 1858 record anyway, as I'm interested on that Pereira de > Oliveira family, but do you find this to be probable, from what you know > about your family history? > > Paulo > > > > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Hello Paulo, In 1989 we were in Madeira and got a copy of the certificate of Maria Carolina and Manuel. I have it right here in front of me. The copy is very hard to read and I never noticed the problem you mentioned...Where did you see that they were married in 1858? Manuel's parents were Manuel Pereira d'Oliveira and Maria Rosa. Manuel was from Sao Martinho and Maria Rosa from Santo Antonio. I don't have any other information on his family. The only thing my grandfather was always told was that his mothers family was originally from England and so far I have not been able to prove that. The Pereira d'Oliveira and Lopes Serrao are her family. I checked ARM and I can't find anything for Manuel and Maria Rosa. Please let me know what you find out. One other thing I remember is that he said he was not an immediate relative of the Pereira de Oliveira's that make the wine, but were supposed to be somehow connected, they didn't know how. Denise In a message dated 3/16/2005 11:53:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, darwin@spamcop.net writes: Denise, I've seen the marriage record for Manuel Pereira de Oliveira and Maria Carolina, and there is a problem. The groom is said to be born on 1842, but their parents seem to be married at 1858, when he was already 16 years old. I'll check the 1858 record anyway, as I'm interested on that Pereira de Oliveira family, but do you find this to be probable, from what you know about your family history? Paulo

Hi Stacy!! "FERNANDES LUÍS" from Stº António is one of my closest direct lines on my mother's side, and indeed one that I'm finishing now. I myself live very close (500 meters or less) from Laranjal. That family used to live also on Lombo dos Aguiares, which is next to Laranjal, and they were living there at least on the early 18th century or before, still using that name "Fernandes Luís". You are undoubtly my cousin. :) Tomorrow I'll look with more attention to the information you gave, and i'll see if I can help you on that. Paulo On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:55:10 -0600, Stacy <stacy32539@cox.net> wrote: > I have recently learned of this Madeira list and have recently > subscribed. > Much of the information I have here I have in the past posted to the > Azores > list and the Portugal list. > So I thought I would try this list and see if anyone sees a connection to > any of their family lines. > I am hoping that someone might .....and if so would love to hear from > you. > Hopefully, I have provided (at least for starters) enough information to > be > useful. > > Thank you > Stacy -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Paulo, My husband is not going to be happy to hear this...I think! Being half Italian, he was really enjoying all of the history of the Sciarra-Collona and the possible link to them. Oh well, such is this thing called research that we do! I wanted to let you know that I am wearing out the Porto da Cruz marriages film. It appears I am related to most everyone there from 1577 (the beginning of the records) forward. My database is growing by leaps and bounds in the last couple weeks. In the end, I think I will end up a Porto da Cruz specialist..LOL. I will be doing the early baptisms after I finish the marriages that I can connect...which will probably be them ALL in the end it seems. To give you an example...out of the first 30 marriages ever in Porto da Cruz, at least 8 of them (so far) are DIRECT ancestors and 12 or so others are also connected family! As I am working the film forward from 1577...I am constantly going back and adding people whom I couldn't connect in the beginning...so those last 10 will be connected one way or the other before I know it I'm sure! If anyone on the list has traced any relations to the early days in Porto da Cruz...please lets share some info! Cece -----Original Message----- From: Paulo Gomes Jardim [mailto:darwin@spamcop.net] Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:16 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Constança Rodrigues...de Sá?! (was: Ancestry of D. Catarina de Menezes..) Cece, Constança Rodrigues, as far as I know, was only documented that way, with no family name. I don't know where this "Sá/Sciarra-Collona" parentage legend originally came from, but at 1590, much before Henrique Henriques de Noronha has wroten his nobiliary, she was named "Constança Rodrigues de ALMEIDA" by Gaspar Frutuoso, who wrote a book about the Portuguese Atlantic history while staying on Ponta Delgada, Azores. Gaspar Frutuoso says she was from noble ancestry, but doesn't tell any more details about that. The Sá/Sciarra-Collona couple, so it seems, where the parents of João Rodrigues de Sá "das Galés" which is the ancestor of the Azorean Sás. If Constança Rodrigues was indeed his sister, or in anyway related to him, I have serious doubts that Gaspar Frutuoso would fail to mention it, with all the direct knowledge he had about the Azorean lineages. I believe you can safely discard this Sá ancestry from Zargo's wife. Paulo On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 07:39:53 -0600, Cece Camara <cece@soccer4all.com> wrote: > FYI-More date problems here. > Zarcos wife Constanca Rodrigues de Sa- says she was born in 1394 - but it > says her father died and 1385. > also says her mother was born in > 1340-which would make her 54 when she was born.. -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Cece, Constança Rodrigues, as far as I know, was only documented that way, with no family name. I don't know where this "Sá/Sciarra-Collona" parentage legend originally came from, but at 1590, much before Henrique Henriques de Noronha has wroten his nobiliary, she was named "Constança Rodrigues de ALMEIDA" by Gaspar Frutuoso, who wrote a book about the Portuguese Atlantic history while staying on Ponta Delgada, Azores. Gaspar Frutuoso says she was from noble ancestry, but doesn't tell any more details about that. The Sá/Sciarra-Collona couple, so it seems, where the parents of João Rodrigues de Sá "das Galés" which is the ancestor of the Azorean Sás. If Constança Rodrigues was indeed his sister, or in anyway related to him, I have serious doubts that Gaspar Frutuoso would fail to mention it, with all the direct knowledge he had about the Azorean lineages. I believe you can safely discard this Sá ancestry from Zargo's wife. Paulo On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 07:39:53 -0600, Cece Camara <cece@soccer4all.com> wrote: > FYI-More date problems here. > Zarcos wife Constanca Rodrigues de Sa- says she was born in 1394 - but it > says her father died and 1385. > also says her mother was born in > 1340-which would make her 54 when she was born.. -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Denise, I've seen the marriage record for Manuel Pereira de Oliveira and Maria Carolina, and there is a problem. The groom is said to be born on 1842, but their parents seem to be married at 1858, when he was already 16 years old. I'll check the 1858 record anyway, as I'm interested on that Pereira de Oliveira family, but do you find this to be probable, from what you know about your family history? Paulo -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Below is the Lopes Serrão lineage (Stº António/S. Martinho/Estr. Câmara de Lobos), starting on Manuel Lopes Serrão, Denise's ancestor and my 5th cousing 6 times removed. It links to the Câmara de Lobos Azevedo family by way of Maria Nunes, and to the Câmara de Lobos Gomes Henriques family, by way of Bernarda Gomes Figueira, both of those being my direct lines. The Gomes Henriques would eventually link to the Henriques de Noronha, João Álvares Escudeiro, Usadamar, Teixeira, Henriques Alemão, Fraguedo (or Figueiredo?), Delgado and Galdo lineages, just to name some of the most known. Paulo ================================================================================ 1 Manuel Lopes Serrão b. Sao Martinho, , Madeira, Portugal d. ================================================================================ 2 Gaspar Lopes Serrão (Father) b. Santo António, , Madeira, Portugal m. 22 Jul 1761, Sao Martinho, , Madeira, Portugal d. Maria Rosa (Mother) b. Sao Martinho, , Madeira, Portugal d. ================================================================================ 3 Morgado João Manuel Serrão (Grandfather) b. Santo António, , Madeira, Portugal m. 25 Nov 1717, S. Sebastião, Câmara de Lobos, , Madeira, Portugal d. Maria Nunes de Azevedo (Grandmother) b. Santo António, , Madeira, Portugal d. ================================================================================ 4 Sebastião Lopes Serrão (Great-Grandfather) b. Santo António, , Madeira, Portugal m. 2 Nov 1672, Câmara de Lobos, , Madeira, Portugal d. Bef 1699 Bernarda Gomes Figueira (Great-Grandmother) b. Santo António, , Madeira, Portugal d. ================================================================================ 5 Gaspar Lopes Serrão (2nd Great-Grandfather) b. Santo António, , Madeira, Portugal m. 29 Aug 1633, Estreito de Câmara de Lobos, , Madeira, Portugal d. Isabel Henriques (2nd Great-Grandmother) b. Santo António, , Madeira, Portugal d. ================================================================================ 6 Sebastião Gonçalves (3rd Great-Grandfather) b. Estreito de Câmara de Lobos, , Madeira, Portugal m. d. Beatriz Lopes (3rd Great-Grandmother) b. Estreito de Câmara de Lobos, , Madeira, Portugal d. ================================================================================ -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Hi, I found this website while surfing. It has some of the newer obituaries listed all across the USA. Some have photos and also family historys. Of course, it isn't extensive, but worth a look. Theresa http://www.mem.com/