Denise,I Sorry, nothing to me. My late 1800's-early 1900's Nobregas are virtually all from Santo Antonio de Serra. My next group are 1600's in Cancico....no bridges between any of them yet. Cece -----Original Message----- From: TARA1197@aol.com [mailto:TARA1197@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 2:33 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Nobrega - Canico Hi Paulo and Cece, My great-aunt was married to a Luis Nobrega Chicharo from Canico, her name was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas of Sao Martinho. They never had children. He was born 25 Aug 1906, I don't know his parents names or anything. Does that name ring bells for anyone?? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 3/25/2005 10:52:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, darwin@spamcop.net writes: Cece, Would you be, perhaps, the person that is researching the Nobregas on Santo da Serra and Machico? If you are, I have a cousin that would probably be very, very interested... :) Paulo ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Hi Cece and Paulo, In my tree which has over 13,000 names now, I do use the double surname if it was truly used that way. In my family, the name Goncalves de Freitas has been used just that way, and that is how I record it in my file. However, in the same family I also have wonem that married in and were de Freitas...These are recorded as Freitas only. Actually, I use Family Tree Maker and there is a function that I use. I put in a name like this: Maria Joaquina de \Freitas\. By putting in the backslashes it separates de from Freitas, so when I go into the imdex to look for this person it would be found under Freitas. And Paulo made an interesting point on bringing the names into current status. Previously, I was using Manoel for Manuel, Anna for Ana etc. I have recently started to modernize the names, making Roza, Rosa. I think that is a good way to keep the files. Also on Family Tree Maker, I added a tab called Name Variation, in that place I list all of the alias' as Paulo mentioned. It just makes it easier to keep track of. Hope that helps! Denise D'Antona In a message dated 3/26/2005 11:33:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, darwin@spamcop.net writes: Cece, These are the rules I'm using, which I got from my own experience: 1. The "De" particle, as in "de Freitas" or "dos Santos" shall never be included in the surname; 2. Patronimics, as in "Maria Rodrigues daugther of Rui Fernandes, son of Fernão Dias" shall not be used as a surname, unless you're certain that it really has become a surname; 3. Always update the name to it's current version: No "Affonços" or "Hyeronimos" shall remain. And specific to the point of this thread, 4. Include every (useful) version of the name as an alias, if your software allows that. For example, Maria, daugther of João Correia de Aguiar and Ana de Freitas can be known as Maria Correia, Maria de Aguiar, Maria Correia de Aguiar or Maria de Freitas. 5. Try to make the distintion between nicknames and surnames. In the case of the "Gomes Jardim" Gomes is a true surname, while Jardim seems to be a nickname. When it is passed to the descendancy it was always "Gomes Jardim" or "Gomes", but never or very rarely "Jardim". The same with the "Gomes Perneta". On these cases I use "Gomes Jardim" as a surname. On the other cases, of double surnames, I do as in point 4 and *never* use them combined. With a database of more than 60.000 names, I can tell you that it is working quite well. :) Paulo On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 07:21:46 -0600, Cece Camara <cece@soccer4all.com> wrote: > I was just wondering about how most of you deal with these in your family > tree program. > I am talking of course about the Fernades de Aguiars, or the Affonso da > Silvas or the Martins de Nobregas > etc etc... > > Do you use just the final surname as the last name or the conjoined > names as > the last name? > I can't decide which is the easier way to find these people. The most > frustrating thing > is that you will find them with just one surname on one record and a > conjoined surname on the next! > Then, how do you decide which one to use? > > I seem to be going back and forth depending on the name...but it's > getting > really diffucult > as my database is nearing 3000 names...and they are getting harder to > find! > > I guess I'd really like to know if there is a geneaological standard for > how > to record these names. > > Cece > > > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Hi Paulo and Cece, My great-aunt was married to a Luis Nobrega Chicharo from Canico, her name was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas of Sao Martinho. They never had children. He was born 25 Aug 1906, I don't know his parents names or anything. Does that name ring bells for anyone?? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 3/25/2005 10:52:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, darwin@spamcop.net writes: Cece, Would you be, perhaps, the person that is researching the Nobregas on Santo da Serra and Machico? If you are, I have a cousin that would probably be very, very interested... :) Paulo

Paulo, Cece and Denise: Sorry that your de Nobrega family were not born in Camacha. There they had chldren who in turn became Medics, Electric Engineers, teachers, City dignataries and one who was very important in Lorenzo Marques. So is was well that they had these children who have and are contributing to the welfare of the nations and the world. Lets see that is Brazill, U.S.A, Portugal, and ofcourse Africa. Margaret a ----- Original Message ----- From: <TARA1197@aol.com> To: <PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 12:33 PM Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Nobrega - Canico > > > > Hi Paulo and Cece, > > My great-aunt was married to a Luis Nobrega Chicharo from Canico, her name > was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas of Sao Martinho. They never had children. > He was born 25 Aug 1906, I don't know his parents names or anything. Does > that name ring bells for anyone?? > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 3/25/2005 10:52:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > darwin@spamcop.net writes: > > Cece, > > Would you be, perhaps, the person that is researching the Nobregas on > Santo da Serra and Machico? > If you are, I have a cousin that would probably be very, very > interested... :) > > Paulo > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

Happens all the time.

(Sorry! I get these emails in digest form, so I can't respond to individual emails. ) Paulo: In an earlier, post you wrote "About Manuel Gomes da Silva..... he is very probably another Bai�o, son of that Manuel da Silva and In�cia das Neves (Rom�o), which we talked about in a recent post. That's the only situation where I've seen Rom�o mixed up with Silva, and the chronology is right on the spot. I don't know where the Gomes came from, but it could have to do with the ancestry of In�cia das Neves, which is almost unknown." I do have a Manuel da Silva, son of Manuel da Silva and Ignacia das Neves, but he married Paula Gomes (April 21, 1697, in Santo Antonio), not Maria Gomes Jardim, as Karen noted in her post. Could this Manuel have had two wives during his life? Regarding the Andre da Silva Romao you mentioned (son of Manuel da Silva and Inacia das Neves), can you please post some info on him? For some reason, I didn't include anything about him in the Manuel and Inacia family. I know I saw his marriage record at one point, because I estimated Inacia's death date as "before April 21, 1697" based on his marriage record on that date, stating she was deceased. Do you have the book and page number for Andre's marriage record? Who did he marry? --------- Also, you mention the Baiao family of Porto Santo. Are any of these records online? I won't have access to microfilms until this fall and am just wondering if there is some place I can start online. --------- And to totally confuse myself and everyone else (my eyes are starting to cross).... Both Manuel Martins Pereira and Maria Gomes Jardim were married twice. Their children from their 1st marriages (obviously not blood-related) ended up getting married. Does this make sense? Here is what I have: Manuel Martins Pereira m. Paula da Silva before 1701. --> They had Mateus Pereira da Silva, born 1701. Meanwhile, Maria Gomes Jardim m. Gaspar de Gouveia before 1714. --> They had Inacia Gomes Jardim, born 1714. I guess Paula da Silva (from couple 1 above) and Gaspar de Gouveia (from couple 2) die. In 1722, Manuel Martins Pereira and Maria Gomes Jardim get married. Now the weird part happens: In 1733, their respective children, Mateus Pereira da Silva marries Inacia Gomes Jardim. He would have been 32 and she would have been 19. They would not have been half-siblings, since they didn't share the same parents. But does this seem a bit weird? I've never seen anything like this before. Thanks! Michelle --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Hi, Paulo. At the end of your email, you asked how I know Paula is the daughter of Manuel da Silva de Mendonca and Ignacia das Neves. I must have made that exact connection through the marriage record of Mateus Pereira da Silva (June 22, 1733, Santo Antonio), in which the following individuals were names: Antonio Martins Pereira / / Manuel Martins Pereira \ / \ / Maria Fernandes / / Mateus Pereira da Silva \ \ \ Manuel da Silva de Mendonca \ / \ / Paula da Silva \ \ Ignacia das Neves I have noted in my records that, from Mateus's marriage record, the paternal grandparents were Antonio Martins Pereira and Maria Fernandes, and that the maternal grandfather was Manuel da Silva de Mendonca. For some reason, I don't have Ignacia das Neves's name marked the same way (as the maternal grandmother), but I think this is because I forgot to source this one fact (her name) in my database along with the other grandparents. However, I do have noted in my records that she appeared as "Paula Gomes" in her son Mateus's baptism record (Sept. 25, 1701, Santo Antonio) and as "Paula Gomes Neves" in her daughter Mariana's baptism record (March 26, 1703). Just from Mariana's birth record, one might assume that she was the daughter of a "Neves." Unfortunately, I did not make photocopies of these records, so I can't look back at them now, and it will be many months before I have access to microfilms again to verify. Had you not found that Paul da Silva was the daughter of Manuel da Silva de Mendonca? It seemed that way from your post. Please let me know if you have found some conflicting information. Regarding the children of Manuel Martins Pereira and Paula da Silva, you mentioned Mateus (discussed above), as well as Maria Pereira (m. Pedro Pereira de Oliveira, 1722) and Josefa Pereira (m. Antonio Fernandes Rosa, 1726). According to my records, I have a total of 7 siblings (all locations below are Santo Antonio): 1. Mateus Pereira da Silva, b. 1701 m. Ignacia Gomes Jardim, June 22, 1733 2. Mariana, b. 1703 (I didn't find a marriage record for her. Could this be your Maria Pereira?) 3. Ignacio, b. March 7, 1706 (From my "notes" section: I don't know what his complete name is, as I only found him in the baptism records, but it could be Ignacio Martins Pereira (based on the complete names of his brothers Antonio Martins Pereira and Manuel Martins Pereira in their marriage records, or it could be Ignacio Pereira da Silva, following the pattern of his older brother Matteus Pereira da Silva and his sisters, as their names appears in their marriage records.) 4. Gregoria Pereira da Silva m. Ignacio de Govea, Sept. 20, 1711 (and 2nd time: Francisco Rodrigues, May 20, 1714) 5. Josefa Pereira da Silva m. Antonio Fernandes Rosa, Feb. 11, 1726 6. Antonio Martins Pereira m. Mariana Rosa de Aguiar, Nov. 5, 1721 7. Manuel Martins Pereira m. Ignacia Maria Jardim (didn't see the marriage records; got the names from their children's baptism records) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Karen, Manuel Gomes Jardim and Catarina Luís are the couple from Ponta do Pargo that I mentioned before. They had a daughter named Francisca Gomes Jardim, who married Manuel Martins in Stº António, 1722. I am quite certain about this, as I have made specific notes about the parents of the groom, who were from S. Vicente, while he himself was from S. Martinho. I remember finding it funny that nobody on that marriage was from Stº António. Now, it is possible that on the case of Sebastião Gomes Jardim and Francisca Gomes Jardim I have mistaked the parents of groom and bride, and that in fact it was Sebastião and not Francisca who was son of the Ponta do Pargo couple. I'll make a note to recheck that marriage. Maria Gomes Jardim, mother of Sebastião or Francisca, was probably sister of Alferes Manuel Gomes Jardim and daughter of Manuel Gomes and Esperança Gomes. About Manuel Gomes da Silva, I supposed he was from the "Gomes da Silva" Stº António family, but when you said he was also knonw as Manuel Gomes Romão, it became clear as water. He is very probably another Baião, son of that Manuel da Silva and Inácia das Neves (Romão), which we talked about in a recent post. That's the only situation where I've seen Romão mixed up with Silva, and the chronology is right on the spot. I don't know where the Gomes came from, but it could have to do with the ancestry of Inácia das Neves, which is almost unknown. I've nothing more on their descendancy, as this is not one of my direct lines as far as I know, but I'll research it on the future to complete the Gomes Jardim genealogy. To be fair, I have a Pedro Martins, son of Manuel Martins and Francisca Gomes as a direct line, but I've assigned him to a different couple that existed at the same place at the same time, as I don't believe that Martins would prevail over Gomes Jardim as a surname. I'll have to confirm this with the christening records, however. "Joupe Gomes Brassum" is José Gomes Brasão, BTW. Estreito de Câmara de Lobos family, I believe. Paulo On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 00:19:26 -0500, Karen Forbes <Forbes0310@comcast.net> wrote: > Sorry--I put my response at the bottom of the "reply" email, so I'm > resending it with my message at the top this time: > Paulo, I've just been reading through all the Gomes Jardim info in your > emails today and have a question---I have the parents of Sebastiao Gomes > Jardim as Manuel Gomes Jardim and Catherine Luiz, not Maria Gomes. I > don't know their dates of birth, but she died before 1718. I have two > children for them: Sebastiao Gomes Jardim and Francisca Gomes Jardim. > (Francisca married Manuel Martins on Aug. 16, 1722). Sebastiao married > Maria Gomes Jardim February 20, 1717/18 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, > Madeira. She was the daughter of Manual Gomes da Silva/Romao (I've seen > the name written both ways) and Maria Gomes Jardim. She was born abt. > 1693. > Info I have on Manual Gomes1 da Silva/Romao(?): was born abt. 1660 > perhaps in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. He married Maria Gomes > Jardim abt. 1692 in ?Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. Children of Manual > da Silva/Romao(?) and Maria Jardim are: > Francisca Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1693. (married Sebstiao Gomes Jardim) > Antonia Gonzales Jardim, born abt. 1698. She married Sebastian > Fernandes October 11, 1723 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, > Madeira. > Joao Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1707. (married Mariana das Neves) > Anna Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1711. (married Joupe Gomes Brassum(?)) > Over the next week or so I'll try to write up the information I have on > the various female Gomes Jardim lines for you. > Karen > -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Hi MB! If Paula is a daughter of Manuel da Silva and Inácia das Neves (which I already have as ancestors by way of their other son André da Silva Romão), that would make her a Baião! If you checked Manuel da Silva marriage record, you probably saw the note on the margin that gives their grand fathers. These Baiões are Porto Santo's nobility, which link to the Vasconcelos, Lomelinos, Teixeiras, Carvalhos, Calaças, Lobos, Drummonds, Ferreiras, Castros, Canhas, Nettos, etc. First member of that family is Fernando de Baião, born about 1470 on Porto Santo, who very probably descend from the well known Portugal's house of the Baiões. I have done a little "engineering" in order to fix those lines, who were clearly wrong on the nobiliaries, but I have good reasons to believe they are more correct now. I'll check those lines and post that ancestry soon, so we can discuss it if you want. BTW, how do you found out that Paula was a daughter of that couple? Paulo On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:39:07 -0800 (PST), M B <mb_mhamid@yahoo.com> wrote: > Thank you, Luis and Paulo, for your answers to my "Martins Pereira" > questions. I can't wait to get back to the US so I can start ordering > microfilms of church records again! > Paulo: Manuel Martins Pereira and Paula da Silva are also my 8th great > grandparents. Does that make us first cousins 8 times removed? 10 > times removed? :-) > I was just looking back in my records and see that Paula's parents were > Manuel da Silva de Mendonca and Ignacia das Neves (married August 25, > 1659, in Santo Antonio), and that Ignacia's parents were Domingos > Fernandes Romano and Maria Jorge. Here is the Romao/Romano family > again! Have you found them in any records on the NESOS site (which is > still down....) I only got this couple's names from their daughter > Ignacia's marriage record. -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Karen : I was interested in your Jardine line. My Manuel Gaspar Drummond family came form Maderia on the same ship Hankow, but in the year 1883 on July 9th. Manuel was married to Maria Pestana de Vasconcellos. They had a family of Maria, Ephigenia( Virginia), Cecelia and Julian lived in Hawaii around Hilo. Julian married a Jardine. I don't know his first name. they had the following children-Louis, Belina, Minnie, Jacob, Adeline, Stephen, Nettie and Florence. I'm sure there are a lot of Jardine's but thought they might be related through a brother or something. Do any of these anmes look familar who lived in Hilo and might have moved on to California? Darlene You wrote: Generation No. 6 25. Antonio Gomes Jardim was born January 06, 1851 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira, and died August 12, 1925 in Hilo, HI. He married **Augusta Maria Camacho October 24, 1869 in Sao Pedro, Funchal, Madeira, daughter of Antonio Fernandes Camacho and Julia Maria Candida. Augusta was born Feb. 25, 1850 in Sao Pedro, Funchal, Madeira, and died January 28, 1926 in Oakland, CA. They immigrated to Hawaii in 1883 on board the Hankow and settled in Hilo, HI. Later went to California. Children of Antonio Jardim and Augusta Camacho are: 27 Joao Gomes Jardine, born March 30, 1870 in Funchal, Madeira; died October 04, 1932 in Oakland, CA; married Maria/Mary Lawrence, December 25, 1892 in Hilo, HI, daughter of Frank Lawrence and Louisa. She was born January 1, 1876 in Madeira, and died February 7, 1941 in Oakland, CA. 28 Maria Gomes Jardin, born February 01, 1872 in Funchal, Madeira; died January 15, 1942 in Oakland, CA. 29 Emilia Gomes Jardin, born February 24, 1874 in Funchal, Madeira; died December 12, 1952 in San Jose, CA. 30 Antonio Gomes Jardin, born November 02, 1876 in Funchal, Madeira; died July 25, 1934 in Walnut Creek, CA; married Georgina Costa. 31 Augusta Gomes Jardin, born May 13, 1882 in Funchal, Madeira; died 1883-1886 in Hilo, HI. 32 Augusta Gomes Jardin, born January 22, 1886 in Hilo, HI; died May 16, 1963 in Oakland, CA. 33 Julia Gomes Jardin, born February 15, 1888 in Hilo, HI; died October 17, 1926 in Oakland, CA. 34 Anthony Gomes Jardin, born April 29, 1891 in Hilo, HI; died December 12, 1971 in Fremont, CA. 26. Jose Gomes Jardim was born February 25, 1853 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. He married Marianna abt. 1885 in HI. She was born in Mach 1863 in Sao Miguel, Azores. Jose emigrated from Madeira to Hawaii on March 21, 1884, about a year after his brother Antonio and his family came to Hawaii. I don't know what happened to him or his wife. Children of Jose Jardim and Marianna are: 35 Manuel Gomes Jardim, born November 1885. (son or stepson of Jose) 36 Ernima Jardim, born March 1892. 37 Adelida Jardim, born November 1893. Generation No. 7 27. Joao Gomes Jardine (Antonio Gomes Jardim, Joao Gomes, Francisco Gomes) was born March 30, 1870 in Funchal, Madeira, and died October 04, 1932 in Oakland, CA. He married Maria Lawrence December 25, 1892 in ?Hilo, HI, daughter of Frank Lawrence and Louisa. She was born January 1, 1876 in Madeira, and died February 7, 1941 in Oakland, CA. Thanks. Karen

Sorry--I put my response at the bottom of the "reply" email, so I'm resending it with my message at the top this time: Paulo, I've just been reading through all the Gomes Jardim info in your emails today and have a question---I have the parents of Sebastiao Gomes Jardim as Manuel Gomes Jardim and Catherine Luiz, not Maria Gomes. I don't know their dates of birth, but she died before 1718. I have two children for them: Sebastiao Gomes Jardim and Francisca Gomes Jardim. (Francisca married Manuel Martins on Aug. 16, 1722). Sebastiao married Maria Gomes Jardim February 20, 1717/18 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. She was the daughter of Manual Gomes da Silva/Romao (I've seen the name written both ways) and Maria Gomes Jardim. She was born abt. 1693. Info I have on Manual Gomes1 da Silva/Romao(?): was born abt. 1660 perhaps in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. He married Maria Gomes Jardim abt. 1692 in ?Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. Children of Manual da Silva/Romao(?) and Maria Jardim are: Francisca Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1693. (married Sebstiao Gomes Jardim) Antonia Gonzales Jardim, born abt. 1698. She married Sebastian Fernandes October 11, 1723 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. Joao Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1707. (married Mariana das Neves) Anna Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1711. (married Joupe Gomes Brassum(?)) Over the next week or so I'll try to write up the information I have on the various female Gomes Jardim lines for you. Karen > Paulo Gomes Jardim wrote: > >> I forgot to mention another thing. >> You may recall a Sebastião Gomes Jardim, married to Francisca Gomes >> Jardim (this one from Ponta do Pargo) on Karen's ancestry. >> He was son of Manuel Gomes da Silva and Maria Gomes. >> Using the laws of logic, Maria Gomes shall be the Gomes Jardim. >> >> Your ancestor Alferes Manuel Gomes Jardim was the god father or >> witness of the marriage between Sebastião and Francisca. >> As Manuel Gomes da Silva and Maria Gomes marriage is nowhere to be >> found, I've tempatively placed, for now, Maria Gomes (Jardim), >> Sebastião's mother, as sister of Manuel Gomes Jardim, the Alferes, >> and daughter of Esperança and Manuel. >> >> Paulo >> >> >> >>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:12:57 -0800 (PST), M B <mb_mhamid@yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Paulo and Karen: I don't see any immediate links to the Gomes >>>> Jardim names you mention. I do have a few in my family--maybe you >>>> will recognize them if you have more extensive information on the >>>> family. Below are 3 generations of Gomes Jardim. The first >>>> couple started out in Sao Roque in the late 1600s, and by the >>>> early 1700s, their children are in Santo Antonio. I am also >>>> interested in the wife of my earliest Gomes Jardim: Inácia Gomes >>>> Romam. Has anyone heard of this name (Romam?) in Sao Roque? I >>>> found there marriage date (1680) on the ARM website but haven't >>>> seen the actual record to get the names of both spouses' parents. >>>> Below are my meager records on this family: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Descendants of Manuel Gomes Jardim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Generation No. 1 >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. MANUEL GOMES1 JARDIM was born Unknown in São Roque, Madeira >>>> Island, Portugal, and died Bef. February 11, 1721/22. He married >>>> INÁCIA GOMES ROMAM 1680 in São Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal. >>>> She was born Unknown in São Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal, and >>>> died Bef. February 11, 1721/22. >>>> >>>> >>>> Children of MANUEL JARDIM and INÁCIA ROMAM are: >>>> >>>> 2. i. MARIA GOMES2 JARDIM, b. Unknown, Sao >>>> Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Unknown. >>>> >>>> 3. ii. AGOSTINHO GOMES, b. Unknown; d. Unknown. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Generation No. 2 >>>> >>>> >>>> 2. MARIA GOMES2 JARDIM (MANUEL GOMES1) was born Unknown in Sao >>>> Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Unknown. She married >>>> (1) GASPAR RODRIGUES DE GOVEIA, son of MANUEL DE GOVEIA and MARIA >>>> REIS. He was born Unknown in Santo Antonio, Madeira Island, >>>> Portugal, and died Bef. February 11, 1721/22. She married (2) >>>> MANUEL MARTINS PEREIRA February 11, 1721/22 in Santo Antonio, >>>> Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, son of ANTONIO PEREIRA and >>>> MARIA FERNANDES. He was born 1668 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, >>>> Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Unknown. >>>> >>>> >>>> Children of MARIA JARDIM and GASPAR DE GOVEIA are: >>>> >>>> 4. i. IGNACIA GOMES3 JARDIM, b. July 22, 1714, >>>> Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Bef. February >>>> 09, 1782. >>>> >>>> ii. HELENA JARDIM, b. October 22, 1716, Santo >>>> Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Unknown. >>>> >>>> >>>> 3. AGOSTINHO2 GOMES (MANUEL GOMES1 JARDIM) was born Unknown, and >>>> died Unknown. He married THOMASIA GOMES. She was born Unknown, >>>> and died Unknown. >>>> >>>> >>>> Child of AGOSTINHO GOMES and THOMASIA GOMES is: >>>> >>>> i. MANUEL GOMES3 JARDIM, b. Unknown; d. >>>> Unknown; m. MARIA JOSEFA, February 07, 1745/46, Santo Antonio, >>>> Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; b. Unknown; d. Unknown. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Generation No. 3 >>>> >>>> >>>> 4. IGNACIA GOMES3 JARDIM (MARIA GOMES2, MANUEL GOMES1) was born >>>> July 22, 1714 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, >>>> and died Bef. February 09, 1782. She married MATTEUS PEREIRA DA >>>> SILVA June 22, 1733 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, >>>> Portugal, son of MANUEL PEREIRA and PAULA DA SILVA. He was born >>>> 1701 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died >>>> Bef. February 09, 1782. >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> Do you Yahoo!? >>>> Make Yahoo! your home page >>>> >>>> >>>> ============================== >>>> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >>>> New content added every business day. Learn more: >>>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > Paulo, I've just been reading through all the Gomes Jardim info in > your emails today and have a question---I have the parents of > Sebastiao Gomes Jardim as Manuel Gomes Jardim and Catherine Luiz, not > Maria Gomes. I don't know their dates of birth, but she died before > 1718. I have two children for them: Sebastiao Gomes Jardim and > Francisca Gomes Jardim. (Francisca married Manuel Martins on Aug. 16, > 1722). Sebastiao married Maria Gomes Jardim February 20, 1717/18 in > Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. She was the daughter of Manual Gomes > da Silva/Romao (I've seen the name written both ways) and Maria Gomes > Jardim. She was born abt. 1693. > > Info I have on Manual Gomes1 da Silva/Romao(?): was born abt. 1660 > perhaps in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. He married Maria Gomes > Jardim abt. 1692 in ?Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. Children of > Manual da Silva/Romao(?) and Maria Jardim are: > Francisca Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1693. (married Sebstiao Gomes > Jardim) > Antonia Gonzales Jardim, born abt. 1698. She married Sebastian > Fernandes October 11, 1723 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, > Madeira. > Joao Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1707. (married Mariana das Neves) > Anna Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1711. (married Joupe Gomes Brassum(?)) > > Over the next week or so I'll try to write up the information I have > on the various female Gomes Jardim lines for you. > Karen > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. > Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > >

Paulo Gomes Jardim wrote: > I forgot to mention another thing. > You may recall a Sebastião Gomes Jardim, married to Francisca Gomes > Jardim (this one from Ponta do Pargo) on Karen's ancestry. > He was son of Manuel Gomes da Silva and Maria Gomes. > Using the laws of logic, Maria Gomes shall be the Gomes Jardim. > > Your ancestor Alferes Manuel Gomes Jardim was the god father or > witness of the marriage between Sebastião and Francisca. > As Manuel Gomes da Silva and Maria Gomes marriage is nowhere to be > found, I've tempatively placed, for now, Maria Gomes (Jardim), > Sebastião's mother, as sister of Manuel Gomes Jardim, the Alferes, > and daughter of Esperança and Manuel. > > Paulo > > > >> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:12:57 -0800 (PST), M B <mb_mhamid@yahoo.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Paulo and Karen: I don't see any immediate links to the Gomes >>> Jardim names you mention. I do have a few in my family--maybe you >>> will recognize them if you have more extensive information on the >>> family. Below are 3 generations of Gomes Jardim. The first couple >>> started out in Sao Roque in the late 1600s, and by the early 1700s, >>> their children are in Santo Antonio. I am also interested in the >>> wife of my earliest Gomes Jardim: Inácia Gomes Romam. Has anyone >>> heard of this name (Romam?) in Sao Roque? I found there marriage >>> date (1680) on the ARM website but haven't seen the actual record >>> to get the names of both spouses' parents. Below are my meager >>> records on this family: >>> >>> >>> >>> Descendants of Manuel Gomes Jardim >>> >>> >>> >>> Generation No. 1 >>> >>> >>> 1. MANUEL GOMES1 JARDIM was born Unknown in São Roque, Madeira >>> Island, Portugal, and died Bef. February 11, 1721/22. He married >>> INÁCIA GOMES ROMAM 1680 in São Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal. >>> She was born Unknown in São Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal, and >>> died Bef. February 11, 1721/22. >>> >>> >>> Children of MANUEL JARDIM and INÁCIA ROMAM are: >>> >>> 2. i. MARIA GOMES2 JARDIM, b. Unknown, Sao Roque, >>> Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Unknown. >>> >>> 3. ii. AGOSTINHO GOMES, b. Unknown; d. Unknown. >>> >>> >>> >>> Generation No. 2 >>> >>> >>> 2. MARIA GOMES2 JARDIM (MANUEL GOMES1) was born Unknown in Sao >>> Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Unknown. She married (1) >>> GASPAR RODRIGUES DE GOVEIA, son of MANUEL DE GOVEIA and MARIA >>> REIS. He was born Unknown in Santo Antonio, Madeira Island, >>> Portugal, and died Bef. February 11, 1721/22. She married (2) >>> MANUEL MARTINS PEREIRA February 11, 1721/22 in Santo Antonio, >>> Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, son of ANTONIO PEREIRA and MARIA >>> FERNANDES. He was born 1668 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira >>> Island, Portugal, and died Unknown. >>> >>> >>> Children of MARIA JARDIM and GASPAR DE GOVEIA are: >>> >>> 4. i. IGNACIA GOMES3 JARDIM, b. July 22, 1714, >>> Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Bef. February >>> 09, 1782. >>> >>> ii. HELENA JARDIM, b. October 22, 1716, Santo >>> Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Unknown. >>> >>> >>> 3. AGOSTINHO2 GOMES (MANUEL GOMES1 JARDIM) was born Unknown, and >>> died Unknown. He married THOMASIA GOMES. She was born Unknown, >>> and died Unknown. >>> >>> >>> Child of AGOSTINHO GOMES and THOMASIA GOMES is: >>> >>> i. MANUEL GOMES3 JARDIM, b. Unknown; d. >>> Unknown; m. MARIA JOSEFA, February 07, 1745/46, Santo Antonio, >>> Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; b. Unknown; d. Unknown. >>> >>> >>> >>> Generation No. 3 >>> >>> >>> 4. IGNACIA GOMES3 JARDIM (MARIA GOMES2, MANUEL GOMES1) was born >>> July 22, 1714 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, >>> and died Bef. February 09, 1782. She married MATTEUS PEREIRA DA >>> SILVA June 22, 1733 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, >>> Portugal, son of MANUEL PEREIRA and PAULA DA SILVA. He was born >>> 1701 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died >>> Bef. February 09, 1782. >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Do you Yahoo!? >>> Make Yahoo! your home page >>> >>> >>> ============================== >>> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >>> New content added every business day. Learn more: >>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >>> >> >> >> > > > Paulo, I've just been reading through all the Gomes Jardim info in your emails today and have a question---I have the parents of Sebastiao Gomes Jardim as Manuel Gomes Jardim and Catherine Luiz, not Maria Gomes. I don't know their dates of birth, but she died before 1718. I have two children for them: Sebastiao Gomes Jardim and Francisca Gomes Jardim. (Francisca married Manuel Martins on Aug. 16, 1722). Sebastiao married Maria Gomes Jardim February 20, 1717/18 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. She was the daughter of Manual Gomes da Silva/Romao (I've seen the name written both ways) and Maria Gomes Jardim. She was born abt. 1693. Info I have on Manual Gomes1 da Silva/Romao(?): was born abt. 1660 perhaps in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. He married Maria Gomes Jardim abt. 1692 in ?Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. Children of Manual da Silva/Romao(?) and Maria Jardim are: Francisca Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1693. (married Sebstiao Gomes Jardim) Antonia Gonzales Jardim, born abt. 1698. She married Sebastian Fernandes October 11, 1723 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira. Joao Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1707. (married Mariana das Neves) Anna Gomes Jardim, born abt. 1711. (married Joupe Gomes Brassum(?)) Over the next week or so I'll try to write up the information I have on the various female Gomes Jardim lines for you. Karen

I forgot to mention another thing. You may recall a Sebastião Gomes Jardim, married to Francisca Gomes Jardim (this one from Ponta do Pargo) on Karen's ancestry. He was son of Manuel Gomes da Silva and Maria Gomes. Using the laws of logic, Maria Gomes shall be the Gomes Jardim. Your ancestor Alferes Manuel Gomes Jardim was the god father or witness of the marriage between Sebastião and Francisca. As Manuel Gomes da Silva and Maria Gomes marriage is nowhere to be found, I've tempatively placed, for now, Maria Gomes (Jardim), Sebastião's mother, as sister of Manuel Gomes Jardim, the Alferes, and daughter of Esperança and Manuel. Paulo > On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:12:57 -0800 (PST), M B <mb_mhamid@yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> >> Paulo and Karen: I don't see any immediate links to the Gomes Jardim >> names you mention. I do have a few in my family--maybe you will >> recognize them if you have more extensive information on the family. >> Below are 3 generations of Gomes Jardim. The first couple started out >> in Sao Roque in the late 1600s, and by the early 1700s, their children >> are in Santo Antonio. I am also interested in the wife of my earliest >> Gomes Jardim: Inácia Gomes Romam. Has anyone heard of this name >> (Romam?) in Sao Roque? I found there marriage date (1680) on the ARM >> website but haven't seen the actual record to get the names of both >> spouses' parents. Below are my meager records on this family: >> >> >> >> Descendants of Manuel Gomes Jardim >> >> >> >> Generation No. 1 >> >> >> 1. MANUEL GOMES1 JARDIM was born Unknown in São Roque, Madeira Island, >> Portugal, and died Bef. February 11, 1721/22. He married INÁCIA GOMES >> ROMAM 1680 in São Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal. She was born >> Unknown in São Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Bef. February >> 11, 1721/22. >> >> >> Children of MANUEL JARDIM and INÁCIA ROMAM are: >> >> 2. i. MARIA GOMES2 JARDIM, b. Unknown, Sao Roque, >> Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Unknown. >> >> 3. ii. AGOSTINHO GOMES, b. Unknown; d. Unknown. >> >> >> >> Generation No. 2 >> >> >> 2. MARIA GOMES2 JARDIM (MANUEL GOMES1) was born Unknown in Sao Roque, >> Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Unknown. She married (1) GASPAR >> RODRIGUES DE GOVEIA, son of MANUEL DE GOVEIA and MARIA REIS. He was >> born Unknown in Santo Antonio, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Bef. >> February 11, 1721/22. She married (2) MANUEL MARTINS PEREIRA February >> 11, 1721/22 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, son of >> ANTONIO PEREIRA and MARIA FERNANDES. He was born 1668 in Santo >> Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Unknown. >> >> >> Children of MARIA JARDIM and GASPAR DE GOVEIA are: >> >> 4. i. IGNACIA GOMES3 JARDIM, b. July 22, 1714, Santo >> Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Bef. February 09, 1782. >> >> ii. HELENA JARDIM, b. October 22, 1716, Santo >> Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Unknown. >> >> >> 3. AGOSTINHO2 GOMES (MANUEL GOMES1 JARDIM) was born Unknown, and died >> Unknown. He married THOMASIA GOMES. She was born Unknown, and died >> Unknown. >> >> >> Child of AGOSTINHO GOMES and THOMASIA GOMES is: >> >> i. MANUEL GOMES3 JARDIM, b. Unknown; d. Unknown; >> m. MARIA JOSEFA, February 07, 1745/46, Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira >> Island, Portugal; b. Unknown; d. Unknown. >> >> >> >> Generation No. 3 >> >> >> 4. IGNACIA GOMES3 JARDIM (MARIA GOMES2, MANUEL GOMES1) was born July >> 22, 1714 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died >> Bef. February 09, 1782. She married MATTEUS PEREIRA DA SILVA June 22, >> 1733 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, son of MANUEL >> PEREIRA and PAULA DA SILVA. He was born 1701 in Santo Antonio, >> Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Bef. February 09, 1782. >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Make Yahoo! your home page >> >> >> ============================== >> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >> New content added every business day. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >> > > > -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Hi, I'll try to sketch everything I know about these people below: 1. Romão, or Romano, on early times, this name appears already on the XVI century, perhaps earlier. I don't know where they come from, though. 2. Parents of Manuel Gomes Jardim, who was an "Alferes" (military position), where: Manuel Gomes and Esperança Gomes, married in S. Roque in 1652. I've this record marked for checking next week, but at this time I don't know which one of them was the Gomes Jardim. 2. Parents of Inácia Gomes Romão were: Pedro Gomes Romão and Luzia Lopes, parents also of Luísa Gomes who married Domingos Gomes Jardim in S. Roque, 1674, from another(?) Gomes Jardim branch. I can't find their marriage, but perhaps he was the same Pedro Gomes Romão who married Águeda Nunes Pereira on Stº António, 1650. 3. Gaspar Rodrigues de Gouveia was from the "Rodrigues de Gouveia" (Duh! :)) family, featured on the genealogy with the same name available at NESOS. He descends from Rodrigo Anes de Gouveia, who died at 1551 and lived in Pico do Cardo, Stº António. Very nice family, well related, land owners. What we would call now upper middle class. 4. Manuel Martins Pereira - he was my 8th great-grandfather, by his other, earlier marriage with Paula da Silva. They are the very same couple that you mention on Gen. 3. Besides Mateus, they had: Maria Pereira, m. Pedro Pereira de Oliveira, Stº Antº, 1722 Josefa Pereira, m. António Fernandes Rosa, Stº Antº, 1726 This last couple is my direct line, along with pedro Pereira de Oliveira by a later marriage he had with Mariana de Aguiar. :) Maybe next week I'll have something more for you and Karen about this family. Paulo On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:12:57 -0800 (PST), M B <mb_mhamid@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Paulo and Karen: I don't see any immediate links to the Gomes Jardim > names you mention. I do have a few in my family--maybe you will > recognize them if you have more extensive information on the family. > Below are 3 generations of Gomes Jardim. The first couple started out > in Sao Roque in the late 1600s, and by the early 1700s, their children > are in Santo Antonio. I am also interested in the wife of my earliest > Gomes Jardim: Inácia Gomes Romam. Has anyone heard of this name > (Romam?) in Sao Roque? I found there marriage date (1680) on the ARM > website but haven't seen the actual record to get the names of both > spouses' parents. Below are my meager records on this family: > > > > Descendants of Manuel Gomes Jardim > > > > Generation No. 1 > > > 1. MANUEL GOMES1 JARDIM was born Unknown in São Roque, Madeira Island, > Portugal, and died Bef. February 11, 1721/22. He married INÁCIA GOMES > ROMAM 1680 in São Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal. She was born Unknown > in São Roque, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Bef. February 11, > 1721/22. > > > Children of MANUEL JARDIM and INÁCIA ROMAM are: > > 2. i. MARIA GOMES2 JARDIM, b. Unknown, Sao Roque, > Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Unknown. > > 3. ii. AGOSTINHO GOMES, b. Unknown; d. Unknown. > > > > Generation No. 2 > > > 2. MARIA GOMES2 JARDIM (MANUEL GOMES1) was born Unknown in Sao Roque, > Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Unknown. She married (1) GASPAR > RODRIGUES DE GOVEIA, son of MANUEL DE GOVEIA and MARIA REIS. He was > born Unknown in Santo Antonio, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Bef. > February 11, 1721/22. She married (2) MANUEL MARTINS PEREIRA February > 11, 1721/22 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, son of > ANTONIO PEREIRA and MARIA FERNANDES. He was born 1668 in Santo Antonio, > Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Unknown. > > > Children of MARIA JARDIM and GASPAR DE GOVEIA are: > > 4. i. IGNACIA GOMES3 JARDIM, b. July 22, 1714, Santo > Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Bef. February 09, 1782. > > ii. HELENA JARDIM, b. October 22, 1716, Santo > Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal; d. Unknown. > > > 3. AGOSTINHO2 GOMES (MANUEL GOMES1 JARDIM) was born Unknown, and died > Unknown. He married THOMASIA GOMES. She was born Unknown, and died > Unknown. > > > Child of AGOSTINHO GOMES and THOMASIA GOMES is: > > i. MANUEL GOMES3 JARDIM, b. Unknown; d. Unknown; > m. MARIA JOSEFA, February 07, 1745/46, Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira > Island, Portugal; b. Unknown; d. Unknown. > > > > Generation No. 3 > > > 4. IGNACIA GOMES3 JARDIM (MARIA GOMES2, MANUEL GOMES1) was born July > 22, 1714 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, and died > Bef. February 09, 1782. She married MATTEUS PEREIRA DA SILVA June 22, > 1733 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira Island, Portugal, son of MANUEL > PEREIRA and PAULA DA SILVA. He was born 1701 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, > Madeira Island, Portugal, and died Bef. February 09, 1782. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Make Yahoo! your home page > > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

Julie, Do you know how common was this Correia surname on S.Miguel, Açores at the time? If it was as common as in Madeira? Paulo On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:33:06 EST, <BlueGoose6@aol.com> wrote: > Although the time frame would be about right. Her parents were married > around 1540. > Julie -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

I will ask on the Azores list. I have 16 Correia's and 6 Correa's. Julie

Thank you, Luis and Paulo, for your answers to my "Martins Pereira" questions. I can't wait to get back to the US so I can start ordering microfilms of church records again! Paulo: Manuel Martins Pereira and Paula da Silva are also my 8th great grandparents. Does that make us first cousins 8 times removed? 10 times removed? :-) I was just looking back in my records and see that Paula's parents were Manuel da Silva de Mendonca and Ignacia das Neves (married August 25, 1659, in Santo Antonio), and that Ignacia's parents were Domingos Fernandes Romano and Maria Jorge. Here is the Romao/Romano family again! Have you found them in any records on the NESOS site (which is still down....) I only got this couple's names from their daughter Ignacia's marriage record. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Really? Could it be around 1550/1600? This Catarina Correia married Bartolomeu Pires on S. Martinho, 1585. This Bartolomeu Pires, despite the name, was a Correia de Andrade, descending from the Arco's Andrades by his mother. On his marriage record it only says that his wife is Catarina Correia, from the Island of S. Miguel, nothing more, nothing less. :( Paulo On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:02:04 EST, <BlueGoose6@aol.com> wrote: > Paulo, > I have a Catarina Correia in my lineage on Sao Miguel. > Julie Gerren > > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

At some point they started spelling it Romão, but in fact it was originally "Romano". When you go earlier on these lines, you start seeing the name spelled that way. This family is from Stº António, S. Roque and Monte, mainly, I believe. I have many of them on my lines, but until now I've been unable to spot a true line of "Romanos". I'm working on that, though. Paulo On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:33:54 -0800 (PST), Luis Beal <luisbeal@yahoo.com> wrote: > Romam is the same as Romao with the till on the a. There are a few males > with that name in S. Roque on the arm site. > They also used to write Joao as Joam, and Sebastiao as Sebastiam. > Luis Beal -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio

I once used to include the archaic versions (Affonços, Hyeronimos, Yoams) of the names on the AKA field too, but with the time that proved to be quite contraproducive and useless, as it would increase greately the pool of names everytime I do a "brute force" search on the name list. Now I don't care much about the spelling of the given names, and always update them to their current versions. I still keep on the notes field the way the surname was spelled, as it helps to trace it's evolution throught the time. Another thing I do is discard any "AKAs" which are obvious mistakes made by the priests when writing the records, and only leave a note about that on the notes field. As for the name that stays on the program as "main name", I always choose the most complete version. If anyone was known at some point as "D. Ana Isabel do Carvalhal Atouguia da Costa Bettencourt de Esmeraldo e Castelo Branco", that's the way she stays, even if the marriage record names her simply as "Ana Bettencourt". That way I can easily spot her among the many other "Anas de Bettencourt". The only exception is for the modern (and disgusting, IMO) habit of assigning the husband name to the wife after the marriage. I'm very sorry, but these "modernities" don't enter my database. ;) Paulo Paulo On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:25:12 -0800 (PST), Luis Beal <luisbeal@yahoo.com> wrote: > I leave Jardim as the last name mainly because at the time I started > researching the program I used did not allow for > long or double surnames. But another thing I do is I always add > significant variations of the name to my program > personal notes. The way I find the name spelled out on the marriage > record is the way it stays on my program, and any > other records if it is switched I add it to my notes like I said, or you > can add it to the "also known as" area. > Luis Beal -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio