Hi Katherine, Thank you. Are these results also posted to the Azorean mtDNA website ? Pat Silva Corbera Katherine Hope Borges <kvjjmmborges@msn.com> wrote: Hi Pat, My apologies for the delay in replying. Yes, mtDNA results recently came in, and have now been updated on the mtDNA page: http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/madeira/mtdna.htm The most distant known maternal line ancestor: Maria de Sousa, b. 13 Mar 1758, Calheta, Madeira All three mtDNA participants are haplogroup 'H', which is the most common haplogroup (deep ancestral origins) found in Western Europe. Please reply with any questions you might have! With best regards, Katherine Borges Madeira DNA Project Co-Administrator ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Hi Pat, My apologies for the delay in replying. Yes, mtDNA results recently came in, and have now been updated on the mtDNA page: http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/madeira/mtdna.htm<http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/madeira/mtdna.htm> The most distant known maternal line ancestor: Maria de Sousa, b. 13 Mar 1758, Calheta, Madeira All three mtDNA participants are haplogroup 'H', which is the most common haplogroup (deep ancestral origins) found in Western Europe. Please reply with any questions you might have! With best regards, Katherine Borges Madeira DNA Project Co-Administrator

I'm being told that this list will post the DNA updates. It's been months since I've seen any postings to this list, is it still operational? Pat Silva Corbera

GREAT news for participants in the Azores & Madeira DNA Projects: Three days ago, new DNA results were posted for three males, (two in the Azores project and one in the Madeira project) and while all three are haplogroup R1b, they did not have any significant matches in Family Tree DNA's database. R1b is the most common haplogroup (deep ancestral origin) which is predominantly found in Western Europe. It's often confusing, and probably discouraging to Portuguese participants when their results come in and they have a match list full of British names. As I contemplated that they were likely a Portuguese variety of R1b, it occurred to me to compare the results to a scientific study that was published last summer, "Micro-Phylogeographic and Demographic History of Portuguese Male Lineages" by Sandra Beleza et al, to see if they matched any study participants on mainland Portugal. David Wilson has extracted the supplemental study data and posted it on an easy to navigate spreadsheet at: http://home.earthlink.net/~wilsondna/Portuguese_Haplotypes.xls The paper has a "District Key" which corresponds to the codes in row 'U'. Click on the "map" tab for the district map and key. Cheri and I have spent several hours comparing your DNA signatures (haplotypes) to the matches in the Beleza study and I've posted the data on the pertaining island pages. Some are exact matches while others are a marker or two off, but that's to be expected considering 600+ years separate you from your genetic mainland Portugal cousins. The Beleza study did not any contain data on haplogroups C or Q. Here is what is so FANTASTIC and significant about this data: Not only do many of the Azores and Madeira participants match subjects in the Beleza study, the study also provides the name of the CITY where their match on mainland Portugal lives! Think about all the countries that were former European colonies. Thousands, if not millions, of descendants are brick-walled on their colony with no connection to the colonist or the mother country other than being a national of that country. In some cases, this may really narrow down the region where your Portuguese ancestors originated. And you also have the knowledge that you have distant cousins living in these mainland cities! The only drawback being that since they are participants in a scientific study, there's no way to contact them. Both the Azores & Madeira pages have been updated with the matches. http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/azores/dna.htm (Click on the island links under the header) http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/madeira/dna.htm (Click "Y-DNA") Happy Easter! Felizes Pascoas! Katherine Hope Borges Azores & Madeira DNA Project Co-Admininstrator

Greetings, As many of you know, I coordinate the DNA results on three Portuguese DNA studies: Portugal, Azores Islands, and Madeira Islands. Cheri Mello is also an administrator on the Azores study and José Fernandes is an administrator on the Madeira study, and I am very grateful to them both for their work on these projects, especially as the projects continue to grow with new participants joining weekly. Yesterday, we had an exciting development when a new mtDNA member joined the Azores study who matches a participant in the Portugal study! The significance of this is that the match indicates that the Azores participant's direct female line ancestor was very likely from mainland Portugal. For anyone reading this that might be new or unfamiliar with the settlement of the Azores and Madeira islands over 600 years ago, the islands were not colonized entirely by the Portuguese. Settlers also include the Flemish, Spaniards, Moors, Sephardi, and even the English (mostly on Madeira). The Portugal descendant is upgrading to the second panel - HVR2, and while the refinement may not reveal a closer match, since the common ancestor could potentially have lived 600+ years ago on the mainland, it's still beneficial to know that their ancestral origins may have originated in the area of Aveiro, Portugal. Coordinating this match is just one of the many benefits of geographical/heritage DNA studies. Also, 40 of the 48 participants in the Portugal DNA study are transfers from the National Geographic Genographic Project, and many of them live in Portugal. Saudações, Catarina Esperança Borges http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/portugal/dna.htm<http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/portugal/dna.htm>

Being from a family with very little passed on, I found this series of postings on why emigrants may not have talked about their past very interesting. After reading them all, my conclusion is that their is no one reason and the reasons varied with the family and the circumstances. It also varies with gender. Mothers past onto daughters more than fathers past onto sons. David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:50:23 -0800 (PST) Luis Beal <luisbeal@yahoo.com> writes: > Luis, > Yes, one should be proud of his/her nationality. But also when > people immigrate they worry about being treated differently because > they don't talk or act like everyone else. The way many dealt with > the situation, and are are still dealing with nowadays here in the > US, was by either not talking about their roots or not speaking or > teaching their native language to their children. This way when the > kids grew up speaking like everyone else they were supposedly > treated the same and had as many chances in life as all other kids. > We see this with Mexican, Asians, Portuguese, and other > nationalities. There is a fear of being treated like minorities. > Being foreign myself I understand the feeling and need but I do not > agree that hidding the origins or not teaching their children their > native language helps. On the contrary, I believe that by teaching > children a second language we are opening more doors and > oportunities to them than trying to make them grow up like everyone > else. B! > ut that > is just my opinion. > On the other hand, these children who are now grown up, and their > children, are usually very proud of their roots. I have met many > women and men who told me they were portuguese, and silly me > thinking that being portuguese meant you were born in portugal and > spoke the language, and I find out that they are grand-children or > great grand children of native portuguese people. Usually they do > not speak the language, or if the do it is just a little bit and it > is because they are interested and love the language and made an > effort to learn. They are wonderful. So, what the portuguese > immigrants lacked in pride their descendants more than make up for > it. That is why we have so many wonderful people on this list. > Luis Beal > PS- E' verdade que nevou ai no fim de semana passado? Tinha um artigo > ontem online que disse isso. Ta' aqui: > http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060130/sc_nm/environment_portugal_dc > > Luis K W <luis_k_w@clix.pt> wrote: > Dear Luis B. > (Prazer em falar consigo de novo). > > I understand perfectly what your wrote. I know some people that > behave > exactly as you described, nowadays (i'm talking about people in the > 30's, > not about old people). > > So, I understand they didn't want to talk about their dead family. > But, shouldn't one be proud of his nationality? > Most emigrants we are talking about (those who didn't like to talk > about > their roots), went to the States in the turn of the (19-20) century. > "Nationality" was a very important issue in Europe. > Millions died for it... > Hmmm...! Probably THAT was the reason. :-) > > Luis K W > Lisboa-Portugal > ---------- > > From: Luis Beal > > > > It wasn't just the emigrants, it was just the way they were back > in those > days. And not just portuguese but all other nacionalities too. For > some > reason when someone in a family died the rest of the family no > longer > talked about that person. It was as if they never existed. The "let > the > dead rest" or " "leave the dead alone" is something older people > truly > believed in. My grandmother, for example, was one of 16 kids and yet > when > we would ask her her siblings names she would only list 5, because > she was > too young when the others died and her parents never told her > anything > about them. As I have helped people research their families I have > found a > lot of that happened to them too. Another reason was if they no > longer were > friends with someone in the family they treated them as if they had > died. I > find that in spouses that separated or children who ran away from > home > because of an argument of some sort. When couples split or the > father ran > away, especially if the father was a ! > > jerk, > > then he was as good as dead, and neither the mother or the kids > would > talk about him ever again. > > Go figure, I could never understand it myself but for our > ancestors > that was the way it was supposed to be. > > Luis Beal

Luis, Thank you for this information. Whether it was the way the name was said or what the English speaker heard, I believe this explains how there was a morph or evolution of the name. I have also found in the 1860 US census a "DeGrella" in Morgan County, Illinois. The is the area in which the Presbyterian exiles from Madeira had settled after their sojourn in Trinidad. This DeGrella must have also been a de Agrela. But let us not be too hard on the census takers. I say this despite that in the 1880 census my grandfather and great grandmother are indexed simply as "Grella". David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:27:41 -0800 (PST) Luis Beal <luisbeal@yahoo.com> writes: > It can be but also when we say two vowels in a row we tend to combine > them as one as in the case of "de Agrela" we say "Dagrela" or > "Dalmeida" instead of "de Almeida." It could have also been his > accent as Madeirans have a closed in french sounding accent. Who > knows. When it comes to the census someone once said you need to > imagine a drunken Irish asking a Polish woman for information, and > that is what you get, in this case imagine a drunken Irish asking a > Portuguese woman for information ;) > Luis Beal > > david-nancy.degrella@juno.com wrote: > Luis, > > In addition to pronunciation, English speaking persons may not > understand what they hear. My family name here in the U.S. is DeGrella. > As a "Portuguese" name DeGrella is found only in English speaking > countries. Having found other DeGrellas and DeGrillas that are not > related to me but whose ancestors came from Madeira, raised the question > how did this name come to be. My conclusions is that when a Portuguese > word beginning in a vow is spoken by a person from Portugal, the English > speaking person does not hear the leading vow. Thus when my great > grandfather told the census taken in New York city that his name is > Alexandre de Agrella, the census taker heard it as Alexander DeGrella. > Also when he joined the U.S. Army, his name was written down as DeGrilla. > I believe these types of written records caused my grandfather to use > DeGrella as his name. > (The DeGrillas on Bermuda believe their original Madeiran name to be Aguillar.) > Based upon your experience with both languages, would you agree with this > conclusion? > > Thanks, > David DeGrella > Tennessee, USA

On the 1910 MA Federal Census my maternal grandparents, along with my mom and two of her siblings were indexed as SILVER instead of SILVA. An online friend's Raulino family became known as Rawlins. Another friend's Farinha family became known as Flowers. Hopefully these are the exceptions, but with "divine help," and determination we are able to locate our ancestors. Pat Silva Corbera Tracy CA david-nancy.degrella@juno.com wrote: Luis, Thank you for this information. Whether it was the way the name was said or what the English speaker heard, I believe this explains how there was a morph or evolution of the name. I have also found in the 1860 US census a "DeGrella" in Morgan County, Illinois. The is the area in which the Presbyterian exiles from Madeira had settled after their sojourn in Trinidad. This DeGrella must have also been a de Agrela. But let us not be too hard on the census takers. I say this despite that in the 1880 census my grandfather and great grandmother are indexed simply as "Grella". David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:27:41 -0800 (PST) Luis Beal writes: > It can be but also when we say two vowels in a row we tend to combine > them as one as in the case of "de Agrela" we say "Dagrela" or > "Dalmeida" instead of "de Almeida." It could have also been his > accent as Madeirans have a closed in french sounding accent. Who > knows. When it comes to the census someone once said you need to > imagine a drunken Irish asking a Polish woman for information, and > that is what you get, in this case imagine a drunken Irish asking a > Portuguese woman for information ;) > Luis Beal > > david-nancy.degrella@juno.com wrote: > Luis, > > In addition to pronunciation, English speaking persons may not > understand what they hear. My family name here in the U.S. is DeGrella. > As a "Portuguese" name DeGrella is found only in English speaking > countries. Having found other DeGrellas and DeGrillas that are not > related to me but whose ancestors came from Madeira, raised the question > how did this name come to be. My conclusions is that when a Portuguese > word beginning in a vow is spoken by a person from Portugal, the English > speaking person does not hear the leading vow. Thus when my great > grandfather told the census taken in New York city that his name is > Alexandre de Agrella, the census taker heard it as Alexander DeGrella. > Also when he joined the U.S. Army, his name was written down as DeGrilla. > I believe these types of written records caused my grandfather to use > DeGrella as his name. > (The DeGrillas on Bermuda believe their original Madeiran name to be Aguillar.) > Based upon your experience with both languages, would you agree with this > conclusion? > > Thanks, > David DeGrella > Tennessee, USA ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Thanks Janette.

Does anyone know about a book "Familias de Gaula"? I have a large number of ancestors from Machico and environs, including Gaula. Is it a book I can order online or through a bookstore? Does anyone have an author's name? Thanks Mary da Silva Frost

Hi Mary, I found this listing online at the Brazilian College of Genealogy site (link below). No sure if they sell this book. Worth sending them an email or even the Madeira archive. Famílias de Gaula, de J. Lourenço de Gouveia e Freitas, edição da Câmara Municipal de Santa Cruz, Ilha da Madeira, Portugal — dioado por Luiz Sérgio Figueiredo Pehry Brazilian College of Genealogy http://www.cbg.org.br/cartamensal/jan2006/cartamensal.html Janette -----Original Message----- From: tiamaria [mailto:tiamaria@frostdesign.com] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 5:26 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] book information Does anyone know about a book "Familias de Gaula"? I have a large number of ancestors from Machico and environs, including Gaula. Is it a book I can order online or through a bookstore? Does anyone have an author's name? Thanks Mary da Silva Frost ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Thanks JL. It will be interesting. I have tried to upload my database to rootsweb this week, but for some reason haven't yet been successful. I need to look into it. Janette -----Original Message----- From: j@jlake.net [mailto:j@jlake.net] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:52 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeira Ancestry > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeira Ancestry > From: Janette Chun <janettechun@shaw.ca> > Date: Sat, March 11, 2006 5:42 pm > To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com > > Pat, > > I seem to have many Mendonca's, Gois/Goes, and I have just come across > Vasconcellos, Tello and Dos Santos. For now, most seem to be from Porto > Santo and one set from Madeira. > > My grandmother had some siblings - sisters (I hear) that went to the US but > they lost contact...so I'm trying to find out their names and then see if > anyone on the list is related. I have just discovered some new found > cousins in Madeira who have been very helpful in filling in some gaps. > > Janette Hmm.... I have some Mendonca's and Vasconcellos from Porto Santo... Time to break my research back out again. They all came over in the period 1913-1920. I will put down some more info as soon as I can. JL ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

> -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeira Ancestry > From: Janette Chun <janettechun@shaw.ca> > Date: Sat, March 11, 2006 5:42 pm > To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com > > Pat, > > I seem to have many Mendonca's, Gois/Goes, and I have just come across > Vasconcellos, Tello and Dos Santos. For now, most seem to be from Porto > Santo and one set from Madeira. > > My grandmother had some siblings - sisters (I hear) that went to the US but > they lost contact...so I'm trying to find out their names and then see if > anyone on the list is related. I have just discovered some new found > cousins in Madeira who have been very helpful in filling in some gaps. > > Janette Hmm.... I have some Mendonca's and Vasconcellos from Porto Santo... Time to break my research back out again. They all came over in the period 1913-1920. I will put down some more info as soon as I can. JL

My grandmother was Maria Angelica de Goes Mendonca. Her parents were Antonio de Goes Mendonca and Georgina Paula de Goes. I suspect that somewhere along the line they must have been related given the similar surnames, but still haven't figured that part out. Janette -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Corbera [mailto:papagaia2@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 5:13 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeira Ancestry My maternal aunt (now deceased) was married to a Mendonca from Sao Roque, Madeira. What was your grandmother's name? Pat Janette Chun <janettechun@shaw.ca> wrote: Pat, I seem to have many Mendonca's, Gois/Goes, and I have just come across Vasconcellos, Tello and Dos Santos. For now, most seem to be from Porto Santo and one set from Madeira. My grandmother had some siblings - sisters (I hear) that went to the US but they lost contact...so I'm trying to find out their names and then see if anyone on the list is related. I have just discovered some new found cousins in Madeira who have been very helpful in filling in some gaps. Janette -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Corbera [mailto:papagaia2@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 2:17 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeira Ancestry Janette, What are the Madeira surnames that you're researching...? Pat Silva Corbera Tracy CA USA ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

My maternal aunt (now deceased) was married to a Mendonca from Sao Roque, Madeira. What was your grandmother's name? Pat Janette Chun <janettechun@shaw.ca> wrote: Pat, I seem to have many Mendonca's, Gois/Goes, and I have just come across Vasconcellos, Tello and Dos Santos. For now, most seem to be from Porto Santo and one set from Madeira. My grandmother had some siblings - sisters (I hear) that went to the US but they lost contact...so I'm trying to find out their names and then see if anyone on the list is related. I have just discovered some new found cousins in Madeira who have been very helpful in filling in some gaps. Janette -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Corbera [mailto:papagaia2@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 2:17 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeira Ancestry Janette, What are the Madeira surnames that you're researching...? Pat Silva Corbera Tracy CA USA ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Pat, I seem to have many Mendonca's, Gois/Goes, and I have just come across Vasconcellos, Tello and Dos Santos. For now, most seem to be from Porto Santo and one set from Madeira. My grandmother had some siblings - sisters (I hear) that went to the US but they lost contact...so I'm trying to find out their names and then see if anyone on the list is related. I have just discovered some new found cousins in Madeira who have been very helpful in filling in some gaps. Janette -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Corbera [mailto:papagaia2@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 2:17 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeira Ancestry Janette, What are the Madeira surnames that you're researching...? Pat Silva Corbera Tracy CA USA ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Thanks for the information. But you state that you order vital on line. How did you go about that. I was not aware of a web site or anything like that. I am not able to read Portuguese but I kind of understand some of it. Can you send me the link on this, or who I should contact? Bob Camacho Researching the islands of Terceira for da Costa, and Evangelho, Graciousa for Reis, and Madeira for Camacho

I am looking for the Camacho line. I have the following, my grandfather is Jose Pereira Camacho he was born on 09/12/1898 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira, His parents where Joao Pereira Camacho and Antonia de Freitas, now I do have some dates and other children and things like that. Thanks Bob Camacho Researching the islands of Terceira for da Costa, and Evangelho, Graciousa for Reis, and Madeira for Camacho

Janette, What are the Madeira surnames that you're researching...? Pat Silva Corbera Tracy CA USA

Bob, this appears to be the marriage record of your great-grandparents... by ordering this record (if you don't already have it) most likely it will name the parents of the bride and groom.... and possibly the names of their parents... João Pereira Camacho Antónia de Freitas 1737 23 v.º Santo António 1893 This record is found in the Santo Antonio parish book of marriages. Book # 1737 Page 23v for the year of 1893. Using the e-mail address for the Madeira Regional Archives you can request this document...they will send you an e-mail quoting the cost, etc. If you need further help, just send an e-mail to me... I'm willing to help.. Pat Silva Corbera papagaia2@sbcglobal.net www.geocities.com/papagaia2 BOBCAMSCPW@aol.com wrote: I am looking for the Camacho line. I have the following, my grandfather is Jose Pereira Camacho he was born on 09/12/1898 in Santo Antonio, Funchal, Madeira, His parents where Joao Pereira Camacho and Antonia de Freitas, now I do have some dates and other children and things like that. Thanks Bob Camacho Researching the islands of Terceira for da Costa, and Evangelho, Graciousa for Reis, and Madeira for Camacho ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx