I have always heard that the addition of "de" and "da" to a name was not just to show roots but also to make the name flow better when said out loud. For example my 2nd great grandfather's name was Manuel Rodrigues da Ressurreicao, now try saying Manuel Rodrigues Ressurreicao and you'll notice that it just does not flow as easily. Another thing is I do not ever remember the use of a "da" or "de" capitalized except here in the states where somehow it just became attached as part of the family name, ex. Da Silva, De Nobrega... Luis Beal Pat, In response to your first paragraph for the list I would rather not comment. Luis living in Portugal might know what I am referring to. If you send me an e-mail directly to me at jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca I would be most pleased to give you a background. Use of "de" is as per Luis' comments and it means "from". Its use or lack of use got carried away in Madeira. That was my comment. Use of "da" may mean "of" because it refers to belonging to (feminine) and "do" is the masculine form. But that is a good question. Why use "da"? I don't know. As far as the priest is concerned it is possible what you say. In fact I suggest that is a possibility and that is misuse got out of hand in Madeira, specifically in the 19th century. Others may have a different reading. On the other hand, the standardization of the language is very recent. Even today there is still debate on the orthographical agreement with Brazil which it seems is not yet been implemented. In my opinion the language of today and its spelling owe a lot to contemporary writers such as Eça de Queiroz or Pessoa. Please also remember that I believe that most of the original noble families (or who became noble) left the islands a long time ago. Many spent their time in the Court in Lisbon and never returned. Many 2nd sons left to the Azores very early or to Brazil. Finally, I believe all our families survived and worked hard. That is what I am proud of. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Corbera Sent: January 23, 2007 4:20 PM To: luis_k_w@clix.pt; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Jose, I'm confused by your statement - "Finally, there are rules but in Madeira we make our own rules. In fact given the current circumstances more so today than ever in our history! " Please help me understand what you meant by this statement, especially the part about the "current circumstances." Using your example of "Da Silva," and "just Silva," I thought the only use of Da was to indicate "of." All the documents that I have for my "da Silva Se' " ancestors from Madeira the Priest used the "da," is it correct to say/think that these ancestors were people of "means/nobles," in the eyes of the Priest and of the villagers where they resided? I actually think Priests followed their "own," way of writing, as evident with the various spelling variations that is seen in early documents. Pat Silva Corbera California USA luis_k_w@clix.pt wrote: Jose' I understand your point, and I believe you're absolutely right. So... are you saying that the priests who wrote the Baptism Records were the cause of the social discrimination still existing in Madeira? Just kidding! Just kidding!! :-)) Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal --------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- Luis, I agree that it does not show nobility. However, it became in Madeira an attempt to show nobility. Some people insisted in having the "de" according to the rules that you have indicated. Now try to convince a priest in a little village to add a "de", and you are a poor man or a "vilão" and you will see the difference. Why do you think there are Da Silva and just Silva? Economy of words? Would it show class? Would it attempt to show your place in society? In an island where most were illiterate (before 1960) why did the priest follow your rule for some and not for others? Finally, there are rules but in Madeira we make our own rules. In fact given the current circumstances more so today than ever in our history! Nevertheless, when I have an opportunity I will contact Dr. Albert Vieira about this. Cheers José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of luis_k_w@clix.pt Sent: January 23, 2007 1:09 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Sorry Jose', A "de" before a toponimic(spl?) name doesn't show nobility at all. That's (probably) in French and Belgium, etc. where they pay a lot of atention and caution to the use of "de avec un petit d". "De" means FROM. And that's why all the ALBUQUERQUE, ALMEIDA, ATAIDE, BASTOS, SILVA, NOBREGA, etc. (which are names of towns and places) should use a DE (or DA) before the name. My family, from my mother's side, is «DE MELO E LIMA» (from Melo and from Lima) and «DE CASTRO E SOUSA». That's absolutely correct. And it doesn't mean they were all noble. Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- Margaret, We are surrounded by Nóbregas! Now the "de" added to the name got carried away in Madeira. I don't give it too much importance. It was added to show nobility and so on. I believe that most Madeirans come from hardworking families that worked the land. Wed all come from good families. I am proud of their achievements and their hard work. Our ancestors built Madeira from nothing. Even to work the land took creativity, courage and hard work. I believe that many families in Camacha came originally from Caniço and I encourage those researching families in Camacha not to forget about Caniço. For example you mention the Ornellas. By the late 15th century they already had extensive landholdings in Caniço. Many new colonists came to work in their farms (fazenda). Under the old "colonia" system they owned most of the land rights in Caniço until late in the 20th century. Have a nice day. José Fernnades -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Sent: January 17, 2007 6:02 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Jose: My mother in law was a deNobrega. Many use the name Nobriga however in Camacha I found that her family all were identified by the deNobrega. The original home was in Val de Paraiso and some of the later generation still live there. Some went to Hawaii about 1906-7 and later to the U.S. Many of the later generation have done very well in the U.S, Africa and Brazil. There is a branch in Brazil that is very famous in Radio, and T.V. Have been for many years and several are medical doctors. In the U.S. the grandchildren are also doing well in what ever endeaver they choose. Some have married into the Ornellas family and have Freitas and Gouveia cousins. The Africa connection went back to Madeira and is with the Portugese gorvernment. I say this because we are very happy with our connection to that part of the world. Our roots are good and strong. Thank you Madeira. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am in! The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the Nóbrega family. In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly interconnected. Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and around 1807 and 1814. Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. Have a nice day. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Margaret, I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a street or something named after them. My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. Denise In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise: The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also are related to the Miranda family. The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned here have sadly passed away. Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha and at one time quite prominent. Best wishes Margaret ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! 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Jose, Thank you for taking the time to address my comments. I think the best statement about claiming to be of "nobility," came from Sr. Luis de Sousa Mello, the now retired Director of the Madeira Archives. At the time he wrote this to me, I was "hung up," on linking Goncalo Fernandes, as the illegitimate son of Afonso V and D.Joana to my Madeira ancestry. After reading Sr. Mello's comments I'd be lying if I said I stopped looking for a link to nobility, I just wasn't as focused on finding that link, for I already knew that my Portuguese roots were well planted. Information received from Luis deSousa Mello, Historian/Genealogist. Director Funchal Madeira Archives (retired) "One must keep in mind that in the 18th. century a new class of people emerged. The new rich who tried by all means to prove the nobility of their ancestors. That is why we must always take under suspicion the genealogical manuscripts of that time. Henrique Henriques de Noronha wrote in 1700 his "Nobiliario" dealing with the ancestry of several Madeira families and is the only genealogist to emphasize the nobility of Goncalo Fernandes. Fernandes had come to Madeira and settled at Serra de Agua, where he built his house and the chapel of Our Lady of Conception. Here he died on the 13th. of June of 1539 and was buried in his chapel. Henrique Henriques de Noronha claims to have seen, above the main door of the chapel, the coat of arms of Portugal, and in the chapel a tombstone, where the figure of an infant leaning over a skull was carved, all surrounded by the Latin motto "Sic et nos nati continuo disivimus ess" (something like "As soon we were born, we ceased to exist"). He then takes a further step claiming that Fernandes was the illegitimate son of Afonso V and D.Joana sent in secrecy to Madeira by his half-brother, D. Joam II King of Portugal. The problem is that nobody else saw that tombstone nor the coat of arms of Portugal." Pat Silva Corbera California USA "Fernandes, Jose" <jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca> wrote: Pat, In response to your first paragraph for the list I would rather not comment. Luis living in Portugal might know what I am referring to. If you send me an e-mail directly to me at jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca I would be most pleased to give you a background. Use of "de" is as per Luis' comments and it means "from". Its use or lack of use got carried away in Madeira. That was my comment. Use of "da" may mean "of" because it refers to belonging to (feminine) and "do" is the masculine form. But that is a good question. Why use "da"? I don't know. As far as the priest is concerned it is possible what you say. In fact I suggest that is a possibility and that is misuse got out of hand in Madeira, specifically in the 19th century. Others may have a different reading. On the other hand, the standardization of the language is very recent. Even today there is still debate on the orthographical agreement with Brazil which it seems is not yet been implemented. In my opinion the language of today and its spelling owe a lot to contemporary writers such as Eça de Queiroz or Pessoa. Please also remember that I believe that most of the original noble families (or who became noble) left the islands a long time ago. Many spent their time in the Court in Lisbon and never returned. Many 2nd sons left to the Azores very early or to Brazil. Finally, I believe all our families survived and worked hard. That is what I am proud of. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Corbera Sent: January 23, 2007 4:20 PM To: luis_k_w@clix.pt; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Jose, I'm confused by your statement - "Finally, there are rules but in Madeira we make our own rules. In fact given the current circumstances more so today than ever in our history! " Please help me understand what you meant by this statement, especially the part about the "current circumstances." Using your example of "Da Silva," and "just Silva," I thought the only use of Da was to indicate "of." All the documents that I have for my "da Silva Se' " ancestors from Madeira the Priest used the "da," is it correct to say/think that these ancestors were people of "means/nobles," in the eyes of the Priest and of the villagers where they resided? I actually think Priests followed their "own," way of writing, as evident with the various spelling variations that is seen in early documents. Pat Silva Corbera California USA luis_k_w@clix.pt wrote: Jose' I understand your point, and I believe you're absolutely right. So... are you saying that the priests who wrote the Baptism Records were the cause of the social discrimination still existing in Madeira? Just kidding! Just kidding!! :-)) Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal --------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- Luis, I agree that it does not show nobility. However, it became in Madeira an attempt to show nobility. Some people insisted in having the "de" according to the rules that you have indicated. Now try to convince a priest in a little village to add a "de", and you are a poor man or a "vilão" and you will see the difference. Why do you think there are Da Silva and just Silva? Economy of words? Would it show class? Would it attempt to show your place in society? In an island where most were illiterate (before 1960) why did the priest follow your rule for some and not for others? Finally, there are rules but in Madeira we make our own rules. In fact given the current circumstances more so today than ever in our history! Nevertheless, when I have an opportunity I will contact Dr. Albert Vieira about this. Cheers José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of luis_k_w@clix.pt Sent: January 23, 2007 1:09 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Sorry Jose', A "de" before a toponimic(spl?) name doesn't show nobility at all. That's (probably) in French and Belgium, etc. where they pay a lot of atention and caution to the use of "de avec un petit d". "De" means FROM. And that's why all the ALBUQUERQUE, ALMEIDA, ATAIDE, BASTOS, SILVA, NOBREGA, etc. (which are names of towns and places) should use a DE (or DA) before the name. My family, from my mother's side, is «DE MELO E LIMA» (from Melo and from Lima) and «DE CASTRO E SOUSA». That's absolutely correct. And it doesn't mean they were all noble. Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- Margaret, We are surrounded by Nóbregas! Now the "de" added to the name got carried away in Madeira. I don't give it too much importance. It was added to show nobility and so on. I believe that most Madeirans come from hardworking families that worked the land. Wed all come from good families. I am proud of their achievements and their hard work. Our ancestors built Madeira from nothing. Even to work the land took creativity, courage and hard work. I believe that many families in Camacha came originally from Caniço and I encourage those researching families in Camacha not to forget about Caniço. For example you mention the Ornellas. By the late 15th century they already had extensive landholdings in Caniço. Many new colonists came to work in their farms (fazenda). Under the old "colonia" system they owned most of the land rights in Caniço until late in the 20th century. Have a nice day. José Fernnades -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Sent: January 17, 2007 6:02 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Jose: My mother in law was a deNobrega. Many use the name Nobriga however in Camacha I found that her family all were identified by the deNobrega. The original home was in Val de Paraiso and some of the later generation still live there. Some went to Hawaii about 1906-7 and later to the U.S. Many of the later generation have done very well in the U.S, Africa and Brazil. There is a branch in Brazil that is very famous in Radio, and T.V. Have been for many years and several are medical doctors. In the U.S. the grandchildren are also doing well in what ever endeaver they choose. Some have married into the Ornellas family and have Freitas and Gouveia cousins. The Africa connection went back to Madeira and is with the Portugese gorvernment. I say this because we are very happy with our connection to that part of the world. Our roots are good and strong. Thank you Madeira. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am in! The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the Nóbrega family. In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly interconnected. Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and around 1807 and 1814. Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. Have a nice day. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Margaret, I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a street or something named after them. My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. Denise In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise: The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also are related to the Miranda family. The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned here have sadly passed away. Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha and at one time quite prominent. Best wishes Margaret ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/ ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de € 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Luis: Very sorry that that distinction is used in Madeira. We here do not use "de" or "da". We realize what and whom we came from and donot pretend to come from any other than good, and in most cases, poor hard working people. Im afraid that there is a lot of "catching" up to do there but will come in time from the young people that I hope are able to get a good education there. Best wishes to one and all. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" <jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca> To: <luis_k_w@clix.pt>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > Luis, > I agree that it does not show nobility. However, it became in Madeira an attempt to show nobility. Some people insisted in having the "de" according to the rules that you have indicated. Now try to convince a priest in a little village to add a "de", and you are a poor man or a "vilão" and you will see the difference. Why do you think there are Da Silva and just Silva? Economy of words? Would it show class? Would it attempt to show your place in society? In an island where most were illiterate (before 1960) why did the priest follow your rule for some and not for others? > > Finally, there are rules but in Madeira we make our own rules. In fact given the current circumstances more so today than ever in our history! > > Nevertheless, when I have an opportunity I will contact Dr. Albert Vieira about this. > > Cheers > > José > > > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of luis_k_w@clix.pt > Sent: January 23, 2007 1:09 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > Sorry Jose', > A "de" before a toponimic(spl?) name doesn't show nobility at all. > > That's (probably) in French and Belgium, etc. where they pay a lot of atention and caution to the use of "de avec un petit d". > > "De" means FROM. And that's why all the ALBUQUERQUE, ALMEIDA, ATAIDE, BASTOS, SILVA, NOBREGA, etc. (which are names of towns and places) should use a DE (or DA) before the name. > > My family, from my mother's side, is «DE MELO E LIMA» (from Melo and from Lima) and «DE CASTRO E SOUSA». That's absolutely correct. And it doesn't mean they were all noble. > > Luis K W > Lisboa-Portugal > ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- > Margaret, > > We are surrounded by Nóbregas! Now the "de" added to the name got carried away in Madeira. I don't give it too much importance. It was added to show nobility and so on. I believe that most Madeirans come from hardworking families that worked the land. Wed all come from good families. I am proud of their achievements and their hard work. Our ancestors built Madeira from nothing. Even to work the land took creativity, courage and hard work. > > I believe that many families in Camacha came originally from Caniço and I encourage those researching families in Camacha not to forget about Caniço. > > For example you mention the Ornellas. By the late 15th century they already had extensive landholdings in Caniço. Many new colonists came to work in their farms (fazenda). Under the old "colonia" system they owned most of the land rights in Caniço until late in the 20th century. > > Have a nice day. > José Fernnades > > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret > Sent: January 17, 2007 6:02 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > Jose: > My mother in law was a deNobrega. Many use the name Nobriga however in > Camacha I found that her family all were identified by the deNobrega. The > original home was in Val de Paraiso and some of the later generation still > live there. Some went to Hawaii about 1906-7 and later to the U.S. Many of > the later generation have done very well in the U.S, Africa and Brazil. > > There is a branch in Brazil that is very famous in Radio, and T.V. Have > been for many years and several are medical doctors. > In the U.S. the grandchildren are also doing well in what ever endeaver they > choose. Some have married into the Ornellas family and have Freitas and > Gouveia cousins. The Africa connection went back to Madeira and is with the > Portugese gorvernment. > I say this because we are very happy with our connection to that part of the > world. Our roots are good and strong. Thank you Madeira. > > Margaret > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fernandes, Jose" jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:24 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > > Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am > in! > > The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We > have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In > fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the > Nóbrega family. > > In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely > 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly > interconnected. > > Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço > until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own > parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who > gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much > intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. > > Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in > the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who > were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which > was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and > around 1807 and 1814. > > Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. > > Have a nice day. > > José > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com > Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > > Hi Margaret, > > I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One > of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. > > My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was > from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I > know > he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers > family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to > Adelaide > Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her > parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went > to live > in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara > d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is > a > street or something named after them. > > My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't > know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. > > Denise > > In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > marpg2000@comcast.net writes: > > Denise: > > The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her > family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now > owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an > Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those > famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very > interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through > to > the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also > are related to the Miranda family. > > The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through > Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned > here have sadly passed away. > > Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust > of > a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha > and at one time quite prominent. > > Best wishes > Margaret > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------- > > Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de € 29,90/mês > A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! > > Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jose' NIce e-mail and I know that the "de" means "from". I have found that in other islands the names use "de" and "da" to signify the mother and the fathers names. For instance. Joao da Silva de Mello. Silva the fathers paternal name and Mello the mothers. Nobriga means noble however like some names it is acquired. If the family lived in the "campo" then the name could be Jose da Souza Campos. In searching the records in the library you have to be very careful because you can very easily track the wrong family. Or search the wrong line. Very easy to do. Indeed the families worked the land and left their mark. They went to Hawaii, U.S.A., South America, Africa and India, China etc. Their ofspring have done well and owe it all to their ancestors. They are proving how great the Portuguese people were and are whether they came from one fragazia or another. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" <jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Margaret, We are surrounded by Nóbregas! Now the "de" added to the name got carried away in Madeira. I don't give it too much importance. It was added to show nobility and so on. I believe that most Madeirans come from hardworking families that worked the land. Wed all come from good families. I am proud of their achievements and their hard work. Our ancestors built Madeira from nothing. Even to work the land took creativity, courage and hard work. I believe that many families in Camacha came originally from Caniço and I encourage those researching families in Camacha not to forget about Caniço. For example you mention the Ornellas. By the late 15th century they already had extensive landholdings in Caniço. Many new colonists came to work in their farms (fazenda). Under the old "colonia" system they owned most of the land rights in Caniço until late in the 20th century. Have a nice day. José Fernnades -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Sent: January 17, 2007 6:02 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Jose: My mother in law was a deNobrega. Many use the name Nobriga however in Camacha I found that her family all were identified by the deNobrega. The original home was in Val de Paraiso and some of the later generation still live there. Some went to Hawaii about 1906-7 and later to the U.S. Many of the later generation have done very well in the U.S, Africa and Brazil. There is a branch in Brazil that is very famous in Radio, and T.V. Have been for many years and several are medical doctors. In the U.S. the grandchildren are also doing well in what ever endeaver they choose. Some have married into the Ornellas family and have Freitas and Gouveia cousins. The Africa connection went back to Madeira and is with the Portugese gorvernment. I say this because we are very happy with our connection to that part of the world. Our roots are good and strong. Thank you Madeira. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" <jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am in! The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the Nóbrega family. In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly interconnected. Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and around 1807 and 1814. Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. Have a nice day. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Margaret, I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a street or something named after them. My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. Denise In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise: The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also are related to the Miranda family. The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned here have sadly passed away. Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha and at one time quite prominent. Best wishes Margaret ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Luis, I agree that it does not show nobility. However, it became in Madeira an attempt to show nobility. Some people insisted in having the "de" according to the rules that you have indicated. Now try to convince a priest in a little village to add a "de", and you are a poor man or a "vilão" and you will see the difference. Why do you think there are Da Silva and just Silva? Economy of words? Would it show class? Would it attempt to show your place in society? In an island where most were illiterate (before 1960) why did the priest follow your rule for some and not for others? Finally, there are rules but in Madeira we make our own rules. In fact given the current circumstances more so today than ever in our history! Nevertheless, when I have an opportunity I will contact Dr. Albert Vieira about this. Cheers José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of luis_k_w@clix.pt Sent: January 23, 2007 1:09 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Sorry Jose', A "de" before a toponimic(spl?) name doesn't show nobility at all. That's (probably) in French and Belgium, etc. where they pay a lot of atention and caution to the use of "de avec un petit d". "De" means FROM. And that's why all the ALBUQUERQUE, ALMEIDA, ATAIDE, BASTOS, SILVA, NOBREGA, etc. (which are names of towns and places) should use a DE (or DA) before the name. My family, from my mother's side, is «DE MELO E LIMA» (from Melo and from Lima) and «DE CASTRO E SOUSA». That's absolutely correct. And it doesn't mean they were all noble. Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- Margaret, We are surrounded by Nóbregas! Now the "de" added to the name got carried away in Madeira. I don't give it too much importance. It was added to show nobility and so on. I believe that most Madeirans come from hardworking families that worked the land. Wed all come from good families. I am proud of their achievements and their hard work. Our ancestors built Madeira from nothing. Even to work the land took creativity, courage and hard work. I believe that many families in Camacha came originally from Caniço and I encourage those researching families in Camacha not to forget about Caniço. For example you mention the Ornellas. By the late 15th century they already had extensive landholdings in Caniço. Many new colonists came to work in their farms (fazenda). Under the old "colonia" system they owned most of the land rights in Caniço until late in the 20th century. Have a nice day. José Fernnades -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Sent: January 17, 2007 6:02 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Jose: My mother in law was a deNobrega. Many use the name Nobriga however in Camacha I found that her family all were identified by the deNobrega. The original home was in Val de Paraiso and some of the later generation still live there. Some went to Hawaii about 1906-7 and later to the U.S. Many of the later generation have done very well in the U.S, Africa and Brazil. There is a branch in Brazil that is very famous in Radio, and T.V. Have been for many years and several are medical doctors. In the U.S. the grandchildren are also doing well in what ever endeaver they choose. Some have married into the Ornellas family and have Freitas and Gouveia cousins. The Africa connection went back to Madeira and is with the Portugese gorvernment. I say this because we are very happy with our connection to that part of the world. Our roots are good and strong. Thank you Madeira. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am in! The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the Nóbrega family. In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly interconnected. Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and around 1807 and 1814. Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. Have a nice day. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Margaret, I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a street or something named after them. My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. Denise In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise: The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also are related to the Miranda family. The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned here have sadly passed away. Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha and at one time quite prominent. Best wishes Margaret ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de € 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/

Jose, I'm confused by your statement - "Finally, there are rules but in Madeira we make our own rules. In fact given the current circumstances more so today than ever in our history! " Please help me understand what you meant by this statement, especially the part about the "current circumstances." Using your example of "Da Silva," and "just Silva," I thought the only use of Da was to indicate "of." All the documents that I have for my "da Silva Se' " ancestors from Madeira the Priest used the "da," is it correct to say/think that these ancestors were people of "means/nobles," in the eyes of the Priest and of the villagers where they resided? I actually think Priests followed their "own," way of writing, as evident with the various spelling variations that is seen in early documents. Pat Silva Corbera California USA luis_k_w@clix.pt wrote: Jose' I understand your point, and I believe you're absolutely right. So... are you saying that the priests who wrote the Baptism Records were the cause of the social discrimination still existing in Madeira? Just kidding! Just kidding!! :-)) Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal --------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- Luis, I agree that it does not show nobility. However, it became in Madeira an attempt to show nobility. Some people insisted in having the "de" according to the rules that you have indicated. Now try to convince a priest in a little village to add a "de", and you are a poor man or a "vilão" and you will see the difference. Why do you think there are Da Silva and just Silva? Economy of words? Would it show class? Would it attempt to show your place in society? In an island where most were illiterate (before 1960) why did the priest follow your rule for some and not for others? Finally, there are rules but in Madeira we make our own rules. In fact given the current circumstances more so today than ever in our history! Nevertheless, when I have an opportunity I will contact Dr. Albert Vieira about this. Cheers José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of luis_k_w@clix.pt Sent: January 23, 2007 1:09 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Sorry Jose', A "de" before a toponimic(spl?) name doesn't show nobility at all. That's (probably) in French and Belgium, etc. where they pay a lot of atention and caution to the use of "de avec un petit d". "De" means FROM. And that's why all the ALBUQUERQUE, ALMEIDA, ATAIDE, BASTOS, SILVA, NOBREGA, etc. (which are names of towns and places) should use a DE (or DA) before the name. My family, from my mother's side, is «DE MELO E LIMA» (from Melo and from Lima) and «DE CASTRO E SOUSA». That's absolutely correct. And it doesn't mean they were all noble. Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- Margaret, We are surrounded by Nóbregas! Now the "de" added to the name got carried away in Madeira. I don't give it too much importance. It was added to show nobility and so on. I believe that most Madeirans come from hardworking families that worked the land. Wed all come from good families. I am proud of their achievements and their hard work. Our ancestors built Madeira from nothing. Even to work the land took creativity, courage and hard work. I believe that many families in Camacha came originally from Caniço and I encourage those researching families in Camacha not to forget about Caniço. For example you mention the Ornellas. By the late 15th century they already had extensive landholdings in Caniço. Many new colonists came to work in their farms (fazenda). Under the old "colonia" system they owned most of the land rights in Caniço until late in the 20th century. Have a nice day. José Fernnades -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Sent: January 17, 2007 6:02 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Jose: My mother in law was a deNobrega. Many use the name Nobriga however in Camacha I found that her family all were identified by the deNobrega. The original home was in Val de Paraiso and some of the later generation still live there. Some went to Hawaii about 1906-7 and later to the U.S. Many of the later generation have done very well in the U.S, Africa and Brazil. There is a branch in Brazil that is very famous in Radio, and T.V. Have been for many years and several are medical doctors. In the U.S. the grandchildren are also doing well in what ever endeaver they choose. Some have married into the Ornellas family and have Freitas and Gouveia cousins. The Africa connection went back to Madeira and is with the Portugese gorvernment. I say this because we are very happy with our connection to that part of the world. Our roots are good and strong. Thank you Madeira. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am in! The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the Nóbrega family. In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly interconnected. Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and around 1807 and 1814. Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. Have a nice day. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Margaret, I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a street or something named after them. My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. Denise In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise: The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also are related to the Miranda family. The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned here have sadly passed away. Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha and at one time quite prominent. Best wishes Margaret ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/ ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de € 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Margaret, We are surrounded by Nóbregas! Now the "de" added to the name got carried away in Madeira. I don't give it too much importance. It was added to show nobility and so on. I believe that most Madeirans come from hardworking families that worked the land. Wed all come from good families. I am proud of their achievements and their hard work. Our ancestors built Madeira from nothing. Even to work the land took creativity, courage and hard work. I believe that many families in Camacha came originally from Caniço and I encourage those researching families in Camacha not to forget about Caniço. For example you mention the Ornellas. By the late 15th century they already had extensive landholdings in Caniço. Many new colonists came to work in their farms (fazenda). Under the old "colonia" system they owned most of the land rights in Caniço until late in the 20th century. Have a nice day. José Fernnades -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Sent: January 17, 2007 6:02 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Jose: My mother in law was a deNobrega. Many use the name Nobriga however in Camacha I found that her family all were identified by the deNobrega. The original home was in Val de Paraiso and some of the later generation still live there. Some went to Hawaii about 1906-7 and later to the U.S. Many of the later generation have done very well in the U.S, Africa and Brazil. There is a branch in Brazil that is very famous in Radio, and T.V. Have been for many years and several are medical doctors. In the U.S. the grandchildren are also doing well in what ever endeaver they choose. Some have married into the Ornellas family and have Freitas and Gouveia cousins. The Africa connection went back to Madeira and is with the Portugese gorvernment. I say this because we are very happy with our connection to that part of the world. Our roots are good and strong. Thank you Madeira. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" <jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am in! The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the Nóbrega family. In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly interconnected. Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and around 1807 and 1814. Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. Have a nice day. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Margaret, I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a street or something named after them. My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. Denise In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise: The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also are related to the Miranda family. The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned here have sadly passed away. Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha and at one time quite prominent. Best wishes Margaret ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Been offline and behind on mail but I saw mention of various de freitas lines.... I have de Freitas from Machico. I have a Germano de Freitas and Maria dos Santos married 1831 Machico. They had numerous children, one son Joao de Feitas b 1832 in Machico. Do not yet know what became of that part of family, could have left Madeira. Their youngest daughter Theodolinda b 1851 was my great grandmother. Any possible connections? Mary da Silva Frost

Jose: My mother in law was a deNobrega. Many use the name Nobriga however in Camacha I found that her family all were identified by the deNobrega. The original home was in Val de Paraiso and some of the later generation still live there. Some went to Hawaii about 1906-7 and later to the U.S. Many of the later generation have done very well in the U.S, Africa and Brazil. There is a branch in Brazil that is very famous in Radio, and T.V. Have been for many years and several are medical doctors. In the U.S. the grandchildren are also doing well in what ever endeaver they choose. Some have married into the Ornellas family and have Freitas and Gouveia cousins. The Africa connection went back to Madeira and is with the Portugese gorvernment. I say this because we are very happy with our connection to that part of the world. Our roots are good and strong. Thank you Madeira. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" <jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am in! The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the Nóbrega family. In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly interconnected. Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and around 1807 and 1814. Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. Have a nice day. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Margaret, I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a street or something named after them. My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. Denise In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise: The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also are related to the Miranda family. The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned here have sadly passed away. Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha and at one time quite prominent. Best wishes Margaret ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Janette.... ok...will try to give you as many details as i can :) 1) "Capitao" (thats a title) Antonio Figueiro from Sao Vicente married Ana de Gouveia from Machico. The family remained in Sao Vicente, Their son: 2) Vasco Moniz de Meneses married in 19 nov 1684 Dona (another title) Crispina de Meneses. Vasco died before 1692, because in 1692 Crispina married for the second time with Francisco Moniz de Meneses (not a brother from Vasco). Their son: 3) "Capitao" Vital Escorcio Drumond born in Sao Vicente in 12 may 1686 married in 1706 with Antonia Teixeira de Andrade (Also from Sao Vicente) 4) CRISPINA'S PARENTS ARE: "Capitao" Sebastiao Moniz da Camara (dead before 1684) married with Antonia Correia (daugther of Antonio Fernandes da Tavora and Joana da Tavora...both from Sao Vicente) Thank your for trying to help me Leandro -----Original Message----- From: janettechun@shaw.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 9.13PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Leandro, Can you send me specific names and/or dates? If you prefer to do it privately please send to janettechun@shaw.ca. I'm South African of Portuguese heritage living in Vancouver, Canada. Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gregobhte1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:06 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Janette.... Im based in London but im brazilian...and about you??? Thak you for your info...actually is been quite hard to find those copies. The names that im looking for is DRUMOND, FIGUEIRO, MONIZ DE MENESES, TELO DE MENESES, TAVORA....among others... if you can help me in anyway id be very very grateful thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: janettechun@shaw.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hello Leandro, Sorry for the delay in reply. I've pasted below an excerpt from Pat Corbera, one of our active list members, and a very generous source of information. The Famillas da Madeira e do Porto Santo by Conego Fernando de Menezes > Vaz with Notas de Dr. Ernesto Goncalves e Eng. Luis Peter Clode is an > unfinished work with limited surnames listed. Conego Menezes Vaz died > before completing this work. > > Aditamentos (additions/corrections & notas finais) are contained in > Vol > 14 and 15. > Vol 1 thru 5 are "A" surnames > Vol 6 thru 10 are "B" surnames > Vol 11 thru the first part of Vol 13 are "C" surnames The first few > pages of Vol 14 contain information on the Calacas Miedeiros family and ends there... The books are out of print although some volumes to surface from time to time on antiquarian book sites, but at a hefty price. The Madeira archive also provides copies of any pages required at about 1 euro a page. Let me know the specific names you're looking for and I'll check my copy to see if I can find it. Where are you based? Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gregobhte1@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:05 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Janet.... On my family there are some clacas and 1 Gois de Carvalho..... how can i get that book that you mentione?? whats the title and wheres available??? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: janettechun@shaw.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com; PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Pat, Thank you for following up. I did not receive this message. I do have copies of the Calacas and the Calaca Medeiros volumes, however, it is the reference to the " to (the 'o' is superscript) de Gois de Mendonça' that I was curious about. For example, on page 420 of the Calacas Mideiros book, under Joao Maria Telo (listed top left-hand column) there is reference to this 'to de Gois de Mendonça. I would like to know what/where this information is. There are several references to this throughout the pages I have. I've tried the archive and they suspect it references Luiz Peter Clode's unfinished book. I think I just saw something on the newly updated archive site with this author's name, but haven't yet had any time to investigate. Any light that can be shed will be highly appreciated. Thanks again for all your help. Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of papagaia2 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:37 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Jeanette, Not sure if you ever received this message that I posted in Nov. 2006. Please let me know if you did. Pat Silva Corbea ----- Original Message ----- From: "papagaia2" <papagaia2@sbcglobal.net> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo > Janette, > The Famillas da Madeira e do Porto Santo by Conego Fernando de Menezes > Vaz with Notas de Dr. Ernesto Goncalves e Eng. Luis Peter Clode is an > unfinished work with limited surnames listed. Conego Menezes Vaz died > before completing this work. > > Aditamentos (additions/corrections & notas finais) are contained in Vol > 14 and 15. > Vol 1 thru 5 are "A" surnames > Vol 6 thru 10 are "B" surnames > Vol 11 thru the first part of Vol 13 are "C" surnames > The first few pages of Vol 14 contain information on the Calacas Miedeiros > family and ends there... > > If you let me know the Vol and page number that you are referring to I'll > be more than happy to look it up and see if I can help you with references > to pages that you do not have. > > To the best of my knowledge this publication is not available online, nor > on LDS film. > LDS does have film on "Registo Genealogico De Familias Que Passaram A > Madeira" > Film number 1183626 Item # 5. This publication is by Eng. Luiz Peter > Clode. > It's a listing/write-up for many surnames, and contains 485 pages. > > Pat Silva Corbera > Tracy CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janette Chun > Sent: November 13, 2006 1:09 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo > > Hello, > I recently received a couple of pages from the Families of Madeira e Porto > Santo book with details of some of my ancestors. It's been a very exciting > discovery but I'm wondering if anyone can help me answer a couple of > questions. > > > > 1) Frequently after entries, there is a reference - e.g. em to de > Calaca or em to de Coelhos, etc. - what does this reference? > > 2) I've looked for the book online but have only been able to find it > at antiquarian book dealers - at a hefty price - title stipulates Vol. 1 - > how many volumes are there? > > 3) Is this book available online similar to the TOMO I, II, III and how > does this book differ from the TOMOs? > > > > > > Suggestions/feedback welcome. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Janette Chun > > (Canada) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. > For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of > our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. 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Hi Janette.... Im based in London but im brazilian...and about you??? Thak you for your info...actually is been quite hard to find those copies. The names that im looking for is DRUMOND, FIGUEIRO, MONIZ DE MENESES, TELO DE MENESES, TAVORA....among others... if you can help me in anyway id be very very grateful thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: janettechun@shaw.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hello Leandro, Sorry for the delay in reply. I've pasted below an excerpt from Pat Corbera, one of our active list members, and a very generous source of information. The Famillas da Madeira e do Porto Santo by Conego Fernando de Menezes > Vaz with Notas de Dr. Ernesto Goncalves e Eng. Luis Peter Clode is an > unfinished work with limited surnames listed. Conego Menezes Vaz died > before completing this work. > > Aditamentos (additions/corrections & notas finais) are contained in > Vol > 14 and 15. > Vol 1 thru 5 are "A" surnames > Vol 6 thru 10 are "B" surnames > Vol 11 thru the first part of Vol 13 are "C" surnames The first few > pages of Vol 14 contain information on the Calacas Miedeiros family and ends there... The books are out of print although some volumes to surface from time to time on antiquarian book sites, but at a hefty price. The Madeira archive also provides copies of any pages required at about 1 euro a page. Let me know the specific names you're looking for and I'll check my copy to see if I can find it. Where are you based? Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gregobhte1@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:05 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Janet.... On my family there are some clacas and 1 Gois de Carvalho..... how can i get that book that you mentione?? whats the title and wheres available??? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: janettechun@shaw.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com; PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Pat, Thank you for following up. I did not receive this message. I do have copies of the Calacas and the Calaca Medeiros volumes, however, it is the reference to the " to (the 'o' is superscript) de Gois de Mendonça' that I was curious about. For example, on page 420 of the Calacas Mideiros book, under Joao Maria Telo (listed top left-hand column) there is reference to this 'to de Gois de Mendonça. I would like to know what/where this information is. There are several references to this throughout the pages I have. I've tried the archive and they suspect it references Luiz Peter Clode's unfinished book. I think I just saw something on the newly updated archive site with this author's name, but haven't yet had any time to investigate. Any light that can be shed will be highly appreciated. Thanks again for all your help. Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of papagaia2 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:37 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Jeanette, Not sure if you ever received this message that I posted in Nov. 2006. Please let me know if you did. Pat Silva Corbea ----- Original Message ----- From: "papagaia2" <papagaia2@sbcglobal.net> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo > Janette, > The Famillas da Madeira e do Porto Santo by Conego Fernando de Menezes > Vaz with Notas de Dr. Ernesto Goncalves e Eng. Luis Peter Clode is an > unfinished work with limited surnames listed. Conego Menezes Vaz died > before completing this work. > > Aditamentos (additions/corrections & notas finais) are contained in Vol > 14 and 15. > Vol 1 thru 5 are "A" surnames > Vol 6 thru 10 are "B" surnames > Vol 11 thru the first part of Vol 13 are "C" surnames > The first few pages of Vol 14 contain information on the Calacas Miedeiros > family and ends there... > > If you let me know the Vol and page number that you are referring to I'll > be more than happy to look it up and see if I can help you with references > to pages that you do not have. > > To the best of my knowledge this publication is not available online, nor > on LDS film. > LDS does have film on "Registo Genealogico De Familias Que Passaram A > Madeira" > Film number 1183626 Item # 5. This publication is by Eng. Luiz Peter > Clode. > It's a listing/write-up for many surnames, and contains 485 pages. > > Pat Silva Corbera > Tracy CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janette Chun > Sent: November 13, 2006 1:09 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo > > Hello, > I recently received a couple of pages from the Families of Madeira e Porto > Santo book with details of some of my ancestors. It's been a very exciting > discovery but I'm wondering if anyone can help me answer a couple of > questions. > > > > 1) Frequently after entries, there is a reference - e.g. em to de > Calaca or em to de Coelhos, etc. - what does this reference? > > 2) I've looked for the book online but have only been able to find it > at antiquarian book dealers - at a hefty price - title stipulates Vol. 1 - > how many volumes are there? > > 3) Is this book available online similar to the TOMO I, II, III and how > does this book differ from the TOMOs? > > > > > > Suggestions/feedback welcome. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Janette Chun > > (Canada) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. > For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of > our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Hi Leandro, Can you send me specific names and/or dates? If you prefer to do it privately please send to janettechun@shaw.ca. I'm South African of Portuguese heritage living in Vancouver, Canada. Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gregobhte1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:06 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Janette.... Im based in London but im brazilian...and about you??? Thak you for your info...actually is been quite hard to find those copies. The names that im looking for is DRUMOND, FIGUEIRO, MONIZ DE MENESES, TELO DE MENESES, TAVORA....among others... if you can help me in anyway id be very very grateful thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: janettechun@shaw.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hello Leandro, Sorry for the delay in reply. I've pasted below an excerpt from Pat Corbera, one of our active list members, and a very generous source of information. The Famillas da Madeira e do Porto Santo by Conego Fernando de Menezes > Vaz with Notas de Dr. Ernesto Goncalves e Eng. Luis Peter Clode is an > unfinished work with limited surnames listed. Conego Menezes Vaz died > before completing this work. > > Aditamentos (additions/corrections & notas finais) are contained in > Vol > 14 and 15. > Vol 1 thru 5 are "A" surnames > Vol 6 thru 10 are "B" surnames > Vol 11 thru the first part of Vol 13 are "C" surnames The first few > pages of Vol 14 contain information on the Calacas Miedeiros family and ends there... The books are out of print although some volumes to surface from time to time on antiquarian book sites, but at a hefty price. The Madeira archive also provides copies of any pages required at about 1 euro a page. Let me know the specific names you're looking for and I'll check my copy to see if I can find it. Where are you based? Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gregobhte1@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:05 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Janet.... On my family there are some clacas and 1 Gois de Carvalho..... how can i get that book that you mentione?? whats the title and wheres available??? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: janettechun@shaw.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com; PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Pat, Thank you for following up. I did not receive this message. I do have copies of the Calacas and the Calaca Medeiros volumes, however, it is the reference to the " to (the 'o' is superscript) de Gois de Mendonça' that I was curious about. For example, on page 420 of the Calacas Mideiros book, under Joao Maria Telo (listed top left-hand column) there is reference to this 'to de Gois de Mendonça. I would like to know what/where this information is. There are several references to this throughout the pages I have. I've tried the archive and they suspect it references Luiz Peter Clode's unfinished book. I think I just saw something on the newly updated archive site with this author's name, but haven't yet had any time to investigate. Any light that can be shed will be highly appreciated. Thanks again for all your help. Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of papagaia2 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:37 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Jeanette, Not sure if you ever received this message that I posted in Nov. 2006. Please let me know if you did. Pat Silva Corbea ----- Original Message ----- From: "papagaia2" <papagaia2@sbcglobal.net> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo > Janette, > The Famillas da Madeira e do Porto Santo by Conego Fernando de Menezes > Vaz with Notas de Dr. Ernesto Goncalves e Eng. Luis Peter Clode is an > unfinished work with limited surnames listed. Conego Menezes Vaz died > before completing this work. > > Aditamentos (additions/corrections & notas finais) are contained in Vol > 14 and 15. > Vol 1 thru 5 are "A" surnames > Vol 6 thru 10 are "B" surnames > Vol 11 thru the first part of Vol 13 are "C" surnames > The first few pages of Vol 14 contain information on the Calacas Miedeiros > family and ends there... > > If you let me know the Vol and page number that you are referring to I'll > be more than happy to look it up and see if I can help you with references > to pages that you do not have. > > To the best of my knowledge this publication is not available online, nor > on LDS film. > LDS does have film on "Registo Genealogico De Familias Que Passaram A > Madeira" > Film number 1183626 Item # 5. This publication is by Eng. Luiz Peter > Clode. > It's a listing/write-up for many surnames, and contains 485 pages. > > Pat Silva Corbera > Tracy CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janette Chun > Sent: November 13, 2006 1:09 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo > > Hello, > I recently received a couple of pages from the Families of Madeira e Porto > Santo book with details of some of my ancestors. It's been a very exciting > discovery but I'm wondering if anyone can help me answer a couple of > questions. > > > > 1) Frequently after entries, there is a reference - e.g. em to de > Calaca or em to de Coelhos, etc. - what does this reference? > > 2) I've looked for the book online but have only been able to find it > at antiquarian book dealers - at a hefty price - title stipulates Vol. 1 - > how many volumes are there? > > 3) Is this book available online similar to the TOMO I, II, III and how > does this book differ from the TOMOs? > > > > > > Suggestions/feedback welcome. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Janette Chun > > (Canada) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. > For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of > our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Leandro, Sorry for the delay in reply. I've pasted below an excerpt from Pat Corbera, one of our active list members, and a very generous source of information. The Famillas da Madeira e do Porto Santo by Conego Fernando de Menezes > Vaz with Notas de Dr. Ernesto Goncalves e Eng. Luis Peter Clode is an > unfinished work with limited surnames listed. Conego Menezes Vaz died > before completing this work. > > Aditamentos (additions/corrections & notas finais) are contained in > Vol > 14 and 15. > Vol 1 thru 5 are "A" surnames > Vol 6 thru 10 are "B" surnames > Vol 11 thru the first part of Vol 13 are "C" surnames The first few > pages of Vol 14 contain information on the Calacas Miedeiros family and ends there... The books are out of print although some volumes to surface from time to time on antiquarian book sites, but at a hefty price. The Madeira archive also provides copies of any pages required at about 1 euro a page. Let me know the specific names you're looking for and I'll check my copy to see if I can find it. Where are you based? Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gregobhte1@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:05 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Janet.... On my family there are some clacas and 1 Gois de Carvalho..... how can i get that book that you mentione?? whats the title and wheres available??? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: janettechun@shaw.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com; PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Hi Pat, Thank you for following up. I did not receive this message. I do have copies of the Calacas and the Calaca Medeiros volumes, however, it is the reference to the " to (the 'o' is superscript) de Gois de Mendonça' that I was curious about. For example, on page 420 of the Calacas Mideiros book, under Joao Maria Telo (listed top left-hand column) there is reference to this 'to de Gois de Mendonça. I would like to know what/where this information is. There are several references to this throughout the pages I have. I've tried the archive and they suspect it references Luiz Peter Clode's unfinished book. I think I just saw something on the newly updated archive site with this author's name, but haven't yet had any time to investigate. Any light that can be shed will be highly appreciated. Thanks again for all your help. Janette -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of papagaia2 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:37 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo Jeanette, Not sure if you ever received this message that I posted in Nov. 2006. Please let me know if you did. Pat Silva Corbea ----- Original Message ----- From: "papagaia2" <papagaia2@sbcglobal.net> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo > Janette, > The Famillas da Madeira e do Porto Santo by Conego Fernando de Menezes > Vaz with Notas de Dr. Ernesto Goncalves e Eng. Luis Peter Clode is an > unfinished work with limited surnames listed. Conego Menezes Vaz died > before completing this work. > > Aditamentos (additions/corrections & notas finais) are contained in Vol > 14 and 15. > Vol 1 thru 5 are "A" surnames > Vol 6 thru 10 are "B" surnames > Vol 11 thru the first part of Vol 13 are "C" surnames > The first few pages of Vol 14 contain information on the Calacas Miedeiros > family and ends there... > > If you let me know the Vol and page number that you are referring to I'll > be more than happy to look it up and see if I can help you with references > to pages that you do not have. > > To the best of my knowledge this publication is not available online, nor > on LDS film. > LDS does have film on "Registo Genealogico De Familias Que Passaram A > Madeira" > Film number 1183626 Item # 5. This publication is by Eng. Luiz Peter > Clode. > It's a listing/write-up for many surnames, and contains 485 pages. > > Pat Silva Corbera > Tracy CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janette Chun > Sent: November 13, 2006 1:09 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Book - Familias da Madeira e Porto Santo > > Hello, > I recently received a couple of pages from the Families of Madeira e Porto > Santo book with details of some of my ancestors. It's been a very exciting > discovery but I'm wondering if anyone can help me answer a couple of > questions. > > > > 1) Frequently after entries, there is a reference - e.g. em to de > Calaca or em to de Coelhos, etc. - what does this reference? > > 2) I've looked for the book online but have only been able to find it > at antiquarian book dealers - at a hefty price - title stipulates Vol. 1 - > how many volumes are there? > > 3) Is this book available online similar to the TOMO I, II, III and how > does this book differ from the TOMOs? > > > > > > Suggestions/feedback welcome. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Janette Chun > > (Canada) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. > For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of > our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Denise, I suspect by now you have the answer but... just in case. For this purpose inventários are inventories. They are collections of one form or another. To see what they contain please go to the English version of the Arquivo da Madeira. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com Sent: January 12, 2007 5:20 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Jose, What are on the inventarios?? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 1/11/2007 12:57:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca writes: Thanks Denise. I just checked the Arquivo and if you can it is worth a visit. It was recently updated. It should have been within the last month. It now contains many "inventarios" on PDF file, beyond Baptisms and Marriages. Unfortunately, for some, it is still all in Portuguese. Have a nice day. José ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Didn't want to interrupt your conversation, but when you mention Caniço I am in! The Fernandes, in my case, have been in Caniço since the 16th century. We have married into all of the families, including De Freitas and Nóbrega. In fact my grandmother was a Nóbrega. This was the 3rd we married into the Nóbrega family. In Saudades da Terra, it is written that by the mid-17 century there barely 200 (mostly huts) in the whole parish. The families there were mostly interconnected. Now a note on Camacha that you may already know. Camacha was part of Caniço until the end of the Spanish regime. I believe around 1638 it became its own parish. I suspect many of the families were original settlers in Caniço, who gradually cleared more land up the mountain. So it was natural to have much intermarriage between the two parishes. I have that in my family. Another interesting note was that reading a British writer, she writes in the mid-18 century that in her opinion many of the people in Camacha who were blond and red haired may have descended from a Scottish battalion which was headquartered there during the British occupation of the island in and around 1807 and 1814. Anyway, if you doing any research on Caniço, please let me know. Have a nice day. José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise1270@aol.com Sent: January 13, 2007 1:57 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Margaret, I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a street or something named after them. My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. Denise In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise: The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also are related to the Miranda family. The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned here have sadly passed away. Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha and at one time quite prominent. Best wishes Margaret ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Denise: Donald Freitas does not ring a bell. However I did live near Fremont High however I attended Roosevelt High. Try again if you would like. That community was very small at the time however it has grown considerably. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane De Mello" <casademello@comcast.net> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > Hi Margaret: > > You mentioned being born and raised in Oakland (me too) and knowing some of > the Freitas children. Does Donald Freitas, in Oakland, ring any bells? He > would have graduated from Fremont High School in 1957. > > Cheers, Duane De Mello > > -----Original Message----- > From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:22 PM > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > Hi Denise; > > Sorry to say that none of the family names you mentioned are known > relations. I was born and raised in Oakland and perhaps knew some of the > Ornellas and Freitas children. My father was from Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel. > > The Ornelas line is a estreemly old and quite prominent line in the history > of Portugal. > Seems that everyone who goes to Madeira or Camacha comes home with a wicker > basket. If you visited the factory you would have seen some of the very > decorative chairs they make for export. There was a very elderly man doing > the work and I was amazed that it was done with out a pattern. The cane is > planted, harvested and processed there and the surrounding families were all > envolved in the process. > > Very happy to do a look up or two if you need a look up. > > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Denise1270@aol.com> > To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > > > > > Hi Margaret, > > > > I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. > One > > of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. > > > > My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was > > from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I > know > > he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My > grandmothers > > family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to > Adelaide > > Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her > > parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She > went to live > > in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da > Camara > > d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there > is a > > street or something named after them. > > > > My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't > > know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. > > > > Denise > > > > In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > marpg2000@comcast.net writes: > > > > Denise: > > > > The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. > Her > > family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin > now > > owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an > > Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of > those > > famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been > very > > interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through > to > > the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also > > are related to the Miranda family. > > > > The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through > > Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those > mentioned > > here have sadly passed away. > > > > Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust > of > > a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from > Camacha > > and at one time quite prominent. > > > > Best wishes > > Margaret > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Margaret: You mentioned being born and raised in Oakland (me too) and knowing some of the Freitas children. Does Donald Freitas, in Oakland, ring any bells? He would have graduated from Fremont High School in 1957. Cheers, Duane De Mello -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:22 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website Hi Denise; Sorry to say that none of the family names you mentioned are known relations. I was born and raised in Oakland and perhaps knew some of the Ornellas and Freitas children. My father was from Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel. The Ornelas line is a estreemly old and quite prominent line in the history of Portugal. Seems that everyone who goes to Madeira or Camacha comes home with a wicker basket. If you visited the factory you would have seen some of the very decorative chairs they make for export. There was a very elderly man doing the work and I was amazed that it was done with out a pattern. The cane is planted, harvested and processed there and the surrounding families were all envolved in the process. Very happy to do a look up or two if you need a look up. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <Denise1270@aol.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > Hi Margaret, > > I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One > of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. > > My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was > from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know > he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers > family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide > Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her > parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live > in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara > d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a > street or something named after them. > > My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't > know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. > > Denise > > In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > marpg2000@comcast.net writes: > > Denise: > > The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her > family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now > owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an > Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those > famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very > interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to > the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also > are related to the Miranda family. > > The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through > Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned > here have sadly passed away. > > Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of > a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha > and at one time quite prominent. > > Best wishes > Margaret > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Denise; Sorry to say that none of the family names you mentioned are known relations. I was born and raised in Oakland and perhaps knew some of the Ornellas and Freitas children. My father was from Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel. The Ornelas line is a estreemly old and quite prominent line in the history of Portugal. Seems that everyone who goes to Madeira or Camacha comes home with a wicker basket. If you visited the factory you would have seen some of the very decorative chairs they make for export. There was a very elderly man doing the work and I was amazed that it was done with out a pattern. The cane is planted, harvested and processed there and the surrounding families were all envolved in the process. Very happy to do a look up or two if you need a look up. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <Denise1270@aol.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Archivo Regional da Madeira website > > Hi Margaret, > > I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One > of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. > > My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was > from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know > he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers > family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide > Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her > parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live > in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara > d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a > street or something named after them. > > My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't > know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. > > Denise > > In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > marpg2000@comcast.net writes: > > Denise: > > The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her > family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now > owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an > Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those > famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very > interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to > the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also > are related to the Miranda family. > > The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through > Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned > here have sadly passed away. > > Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of > a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha > and at one time quite prominent. > > Best wishes > Margaret > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Margaret, I went to Camacha and we even brought back some of those wicker items. One of them is a beautiful picnic basket. It's a really nice town. My grandfathers sister was married to Luis de Nobrega but I believe he was from Canico not Camacha. I don't have any other info on his family. I know he had a brother that lived in Cambridge, MA at one time. My grandmothers family was from Sao Miguel, Acores, One of her uncles was married to Adelaide Cristina da Carmara d'Ornellas, she was from Sao Pedro, Funchal and her parents were Pedro Jose de Ornellas and Elena Augusta da Camara. She went to live in Sao Miguel. And I know she had a sister named Vicencia Julia da Camara d'Ornellas. The Ornellas are from a well off line. I understand there is a street or something named after them. My grandfather said we had family that went near Oakland, CA but we don't know who and they would be dead now. They were Freitas though. Denise In a message dated 1/13/2007 1:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise: The fun begins. My mother in law was Theresa deNobrega from Camacha. Her family members still exist there and have a store, bar, and one cousin now owns the wicker factory and is the "mayor". My sister is married to an Ornellas and they also reside in Camacha. In 1906 - 8 - 9, some of those famillies went to Hawaii and later to the U.S. Their lives have been very interesting and we marvel at how they were able to find their way through to the U.S. Germano Ornellas was my brother in laws grandfather. They also are related to the Miranda family. The Goveia family lived here also and followed the same route through Hawaii. Some Freitas lived in San Leandro however many of those mentioned here have sadly passed away. Nice place Camacha. Happy people, musical and dancers. There is a bust of a A. Ornellas in the plaza there and he is a noble man who was from Camacha and at one time quite prominent. Best wishes Margaret

Hi Margaret, I have been to Madeira before and I looked in the phone book while there. There had to be about 7 pages of Freitas listings. We also have Nobrega and Ornelas in our family too. Denise In a message dated 1/11/2007 8:56:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marpg2000@comcast.net writes: Denise; my in laws were from Camacha, Madeira and there are plenty of Freitas members there. Also you will find that Germano was a somewhat common first name there. De Nobrega, Freitas, Goveia, Ornellas are some common names in Madeira and Camacha. Margaret