Leandro, I missed listing Jose Goncalves (Borrageiro) bapt 1669 March 25 (B#1047 fl. 69) m. Estreito da Calheta 1694 May 06 (B# 1061 fl 134) to Leonor de Jesus bapt 18 Aug 1672 (B#1049 fl 85) Jose son of Pedro Goncalves and Maria Goncalves. Leonor daughter of Francisco d'Agrela and Domingas Rodrigues... Per Sr. Mello of the (ARM) "Borrageiro," is a nickname. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gregobhte1@aol.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Calheta ancestors > Hi Pat….just looked on your website and among the alcunhas was one of > GONCALVES BORRAGEIRO, saying that he was one ancestors of yours. It > happens that I > also have one GONCALVES BORRAGEIRO from Calheta that was my ancestor as > well > ..so most likely we are related. Have a look on the email that I sent > earlier > to you with the full list and let me know. Also if you can send me the > list > of your ancestors in that area it would be great. > > Thank you > > Leandro > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Leandro, I just replied to you on what I have on Borrageiro Goncalves, along with what I found on Pedro Delgado... Let me know if you think any of these individuals are possible "common ancestors," linking our families. The bulk of my ancestors were from the Calheta, just too many to send all the info on what I have, but what I can do is to send you a name listing, and if you see something that you have, then we can "zero," in on that family... Pat p.s. I'll put together the name listing and send it shortly... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gregobhte1@aol.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Calheta ancestors > Hi Pat….just looked on your website and among the alcunhas was one of > GONCALVES BORRAGEIRO, saying that he was one ancestors of yours. It > happens that I > also have one GONCALVES BORRAGEIRO from Calheta that was my ancestor as > well > ..so most likely we are related. Have a look on the email that I sent > earlier > to you with the full list and let me know. Also if you can send me the > list > of your ancestors in that area it would be great. > > Thank you > > Leandro > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Leandro, Thank you for sending your listing of Calheta and Estreito da Calheta ancestors/relatives. I have the following Borrageiro, not as a surname but as a possible alcunha... Antonio Borrageiro Goncalves b. 29 May 1786 Lombo da Estrela, Calheta, he is my 2nd cousin 4 times removed... married to Antonia de Jesus b. 29 May 1815, they are the parents of Manuel Borrageiro Goncalves b. 09 Apr 1816 Lombo da Estrela, Calheta, m. 28 Sept 1857 to Francisca Fernandes da Costa b. 26 Sept 1822 Calehta...parents of Manuel Borrageiro Goncalves b. abt 1866 Calheta, married "N" on 26 Jan 1899, this Manuel is my 4th cousin 4 times removed... Leandro, if you think there's a connection with your Borrageiro line just let me know and I can give you some additional information... The surnames of Goncalves and Rodrigues appear through out my lines, I didn't see any of the couples that you noted as matching with what I have, with the exception of a possible from your ESTREITO DA CALHETA listing. This is what you have listed: " 1) Pedro Delgado married with Inacia Gomes. Pedro was the son of Pedro Delgado (married in 1652) and Maria Rodrigues. " Here's what I have... all these individuals listed below are my direct line ancestors. Pat 1. Pedro Delgado m. Francisca Fernandes (my 9th Great Grandparents) they were the parents of 2. Pedro Delgado m. 04 Nov 1619 to Maria Gomes, (she the daughter of Antonio Gomes and Beatris Taveira) parents of 3. Pedro Delgado m. 22 July 1652 to Maria Fernandes Rodrigues (she the daughter of Domingos Rodrigues and Isabel Fernandes) parents of. 4. Antonio Nunes bapt. 21 Mar 1661 Estreito da Calheta, Madeira m. 29 Sep 1686 to Inacia Francisca ( she the daughter of Domingos Goncalves and Maria Francisca) parents of 5. Gaspar Nunes b. 14 Nov 1706 Calheta, Madeira m. 01 Jan 1729 to Josefa Maria de Jesus b. 20 Mar 1708 Estreito da Calheta (she the daughter of Domingos Sardinha and Cecilia Pereira) parents of 6. Maria de Jesus b. 18 Nov 1734 Estreito da Calheta, Madeira m. 27 Oct 1759 to Jose Rodrigues de Sa b. 24 Oct 1729 Lombo do Reis, Estreito da Calheta, Madeira ( he the son of Manuel Rodrigues de Sa and Isabel Sardinha) parents of 7. Manuel Rodrigues de Sa b. 30 Jun 1760 Lombo do Reis, Estreito da Calheta m. Maria Pereira de Jesus b. 17 Aug 1756 Lombo do Reis, Estreito da Calheta ( she the daughter of Francisco Pereira Serrao and Maria Francisca Goncalves) parents of 8. Joao Rodrigues de Sa b. 6 Aug 1798 Lombo de Reis m. 29 July 1819 to Maria de Jesus b. 26 Jan 1794 Lombo do Reis (she the daughter of Manuel Teixeira and Maria de Jesus) parents of 9. Antonia Pereira de Jesus b. 11 Oct 1822 Lombo do Lameiro, Estreito da Calaheta m. 22 Sept 1844 to Joao da Silva Se' b. 29 Aug 1814 Lombo das Laranjeiras, Calheta, Madeira ( he the son of Jose da Silva Se' and Antonia Rosa de Jesus) parents of 10. Manuel da Silva Se' b. 21 Mar 1849 Varge da Estrela, Calheta, Madeira m. 05 Feb 1877 to Maria Augusta Rodrigues b. 14 Feb 1858 Varge da Estrela, Calheta, Madeira ( she the daughter of Antonio Rodrigues Farinha Jardim and Ana Cesar Ferreira) parents of 11. Antonio da Silva Se' b. 01 Jan 1881 Lombo da Estrela, Calheta, Madeira m. 23 July 1900 to Julia Augusta da Camara de Freitas b. 24 Nov 1883 Lombo das Laranjeiras, Calheta, Madeira (she the daughter of Antonio da Camara b. abt 1850 filho da "pais incognitos" m. 08 Feb 1873 to Antonia Rosa de Freitas) Couple # 11 Antonio da Silva Se' and Julia Augusta da Camara de Freitas are my maternal grandparents. It is Grandma Julia's brother's male descendants that I'm hoping to locate in order to test their YDNA, in hopes of establishing clues to the only "pais incognitos," in my lines. This is what I have on Grandma Julia's brother: Antonio Joao Camara de Freitas (aka Antonio Joao Camara) b. 03 Nov 1873 Calheta, Madeira m. ARM (online) António de Freitas and Maria Henriqueta da Silva Bk 7520 A Pg 4 v.º Parish Calheta Year1900 , (she the daughter of Francisco Januario da Silva and Maria Henriqueta da Silva , this couple married 30 Nov 1876 Calheta, Madeira... Francisco son of Januario Joao da Silva and Ricarda Carolina Abreu. Januario Joao son of Silverio Joao da Silva and Maria Agostinho) On a passport application for Antonio Joao Camara's nephew (son of Grandma Julia that did not travel with her in 1906 to the USA) it gives Antonio Joao' Camara's residence as "morador (I can't make it out completely appears to be Pico dos Frios), freguezia de San Pedro... Pat Silva Corbera ----- Original Message ----- From: <gregobhte1@aol.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 3:50 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Calheta and Estreito da Calheta > > Hi Pat, > Im sending to you the list of my ancestors from Calheta and Estreito da > Calheta as it follows: > CALAHETA > 1) Antonio Ferreira de Abreu that married in 1751 Brigida Ursula da > Ascencao (born 25.12.1729), daughter of Manuel Romao and Isabel Maria. > Manuel Romao was the son of Francisco Fernandez (married in 1676) and > Maria da Conceicao. Isabel Maria was the daughter of Antonio Nunes and > Clara Jose > 2) Isabel Castro de Faria (born 30.3.1664) married in 14.9.1693 Jose Gomes > Duarte (from Serra d’Agua) > Isabel was the daughter of Francisco Estevez (married in 1659) and Ines > Marques. Francisco was the son of Francisco Estevez (married in 1631) and > Maria Rodrigues. Ines was the dugther of Joao Goncalves da Costa (married > in 1627) and Ana Dias. > Francisco Esteves was the son of Antonio Esteves and Antonia Silva. Maria > Rodrigues was the daugther of Antonio Afonso and Joana Rodrigues > Joao Goncalves da Costa was the son of Antonio Goncalves (married in 1592) > and Luisa da Costa. Ana Dias was the daughter of Antonio Dias (married in > 1597) and Ines Marques > Antonio Goncalves was the son of Antonio Goncalves and Maria Goncalves. > Luisa da Costa was the daughter of Miguel Nunes and Ana da Costa > Antonio Dias was the son of Cosme Dias and Isabel Nunes. Ines Marques was > the daugther of ??? Marques and Maria Fernandes. > 3) Antonio Mendes (born in 1761) married in 1788 Maria da Silva (from > Seixal). Antonio was the son of Inacio Mendes (married in 1750) and Isabel > Maria da Conceicao. > Isabel Maria da Conceicao was the daughter of Antonio Pereira (married in > 12.1.1728) and Maria da Conceicao. > Antonio Pereira was the son of Andre Pereira (married in 24.9.1679) and > Isabel Goncalves. Maria da Conceicao was the daughter of Domingos > Fernandes Pedra and Maria da Pascoa. > Andre Pereira was the son of Joao Pereira (married in 19.7.1628) and Maria > Rodrigues. > Domingos Fernandes Pedra was the son of Manuel Fernandes Pedra and Isabel > Fernandes. Maria da Pascoa was the daughter of Joao Ferreira and Isabel > Fernandes > 4) Tiburcio da Costa (married in 1725) Joana Ferreira (from Seixal) > Tiburcio was the son of Domingos da Costa (married in 8.11.1683) Catarina > Goncalves. > Catarina Goncalves was the daughter of Francisco Goncalves da Costa > (married in 23.4.1640) and Ana Nunes > 5) Manuel Joao Sequeira (married in 1732) Luiza da Silva. Manuel was the > son of Antonio Goncalves de Sequeira and Maria da Ascencao. Luisa da Silva > was the daughter of Manuel Goncalves (married in 1701) and Catarina da > Silva. > Antonio Goncalves de Sequeira was the son of Antonio Goncalves de Sequeira > and Bernarda Duarte. Maria da Ascencao was the daugther of Bras Goncalves > de Torres and Isabel da Ascencao. > Manuel Goncalves was the son of Antonio Goncalves Jar dim (married in > 1659) and Maria Bras. Catarina da Silva was the daughter of Domingos > Rodriguez (married in 1661) and Catarina da Silva. > ESTREITO DA CALHETA > > 1) Pedro Delgado married with Inacia Gomes. Pedro was the son of Pedro > Delgado (married in 1652) and Maria Rodrigues. > 2) Francisco Goncalves Cardoso married Isabel Martins. Francisco was the > son of Manuel Goncalves Borrageiro (married in 1664) Isabel Francisca > 3) Joao Goncalves da Rosa married Maria Sardinha. Maria was the daughter > of Antonio Rodrigues (married in 1654) and Domingas Sardinha. > Antonio Rodrigues was the son of Antonio Rodriguez (married in 1616) and > Francisca Rodrigues. > > ***** that’s all that I have for now. Will send info of the third place > very soon. Can u send me a list of YOUR ancestors as well??? > Any doubt just write me back and im more than happy to clarify J > Leandro > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: papagaia2@sbcglobal.net > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 7.11AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente > > > Hi Leandro, > > Who are you researching from Calheta, Estreito da Calheta and Arco da > Calheta? > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <gregobhte1@aol.com> > To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:52 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente > > >> Hi Pat.... >> >> My ancestors comes from all over :) >> but mainly Sao Vicente, Seixal, Some in Calheta, Ponta do Pargo, Ponta do >> Sol and Ribeira Brava >> >> Leandro >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: papagaia2@sbcglobal.net >> To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 6.45PM >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente >> >> >> Hi Leandro, >> >> The only individuals that I have from Sao Vicente are those that I >> previously >> posted. >> >> I have a correction/clarification to make as to the source that I >> quoted >> when >> making the following statement ..." More on Sebastiao and his family can >> be >> found on page 183 "Familias da Ilhas da Madeira e Porto Santo"Titulo: >> Liras." >> >> This source should have read: " Reference to Sebastiao Rodrigues de Lira >> can >> be found on Page 183 under the titulo Barretos, do Arco # 5 Pg 183 of >> "Famiias >> da Ilhas da Madeira e Porto Santo - Titulo: Liras." >> >> Is Sao Vicente the only location that your ancestors came from? >> Pat >> >> >> gregobhte1@aol.com wrote: >> Hi Pat...i have some Gomes-Garcez in my family...so mabe you can help me >> to >> expand my family tree :) >> >> 1) Amaro Gomes garces married in 1678 in S Vicente with Antonia Caldeira >> (antonia is related to me) >> >> 2) Domingos Gomes Garces - son of Manuel Pacheco and Ana Rodrigues. >> Domingos >> married in 22 jun 1653 with Antonia Dias. He is my 9th great-grandfather >> >> 3) Joao Gomes Garcez - married in (???) with Maria Costa. They are the >> parents >> of Maria Pestana (this maria Pestana had a son that married in 1715, so >> probably >> this Joao Garcez was married mid 1600's or so!) >> >> 4) Alferes Manuel Gomes Garcez - Married Constanca Viveiros. Thir >> daugther >> Antonia Viveiros Married in 1720 one of my relatives, Joao Teixeira >> Brasao. >> >> All these names comes from Sao Vicente >> >> Thank you >> >> Leandro >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: papagaia2@sbcglobal.net >> To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 5:45 AM >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente >> >> >> I have an Alvaro Gomes who married Maria Goncalves both from Sao Vicente, >> this >> couple is my 9th Great Grandparents. Their daughter, Margarida Gomes >> Garcez(Garces) b. abt 1590 Sao Vicente, married Sebastiao Dias de Lira b. >> bef >> 1590, they married 08 Jun 1610 Book 578 Pg 33v, Sao Vicente, Madeira. >> Sebastiao >> was also known as Sebastiao Rodriguese de Lira. More on Sebastiao and his >> family can be found on page 183 "Familias da Ilhas da Madeira e Porto >> Santo" >> Titulo: Liras. Their son Capitao Bartolomeu Velosa de Lira married Agueda >> Cesar Abreu Andrade on 30 May 1662, in the Calheta. >> >> This is a double line for me... another son of Sebastiao Dias de Lira and >> Margarida Gomes Garcez(Garces), named Vicente de Lira Veloso b. abt 1610 >> Sao >> Vicente, married on 04 Feb 1652 in the Estreito da Calheta to Maria >> Ferreira she >> >> was born on 04 Oct 1626 Estreito da Calheta... Vicente is my paternal >> great >> grandfather and his brother Bartolomeu noted above is my maternal great >> grandfather. >> >> That's what I have for Sao Vicente... >> >> Pat Silva Corbera >> . >> >> Luis Beal wrote: >> I have an Alvaro Gomes who married Maria Dias back in 1694 in S. Antao. >> Both >> were born in Sao Vicente and so were their parents, Francisco de Gois and >> Maria >> Francisca (Alvaros' parents), and Domingos Gomes and Anto'nia Dias >> (Maria's >> parents). >> That seems to be it for me from Sao Vicente. >> Luis Beal >> >> >> "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a >> child. >> >> >> For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of >> our >> ancestors." >> Cicero, Roman orator >> >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:02:21 AM >> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject >> >> >> Hey folks...how about a change of subject?????? >> >> Anyone here that belongs from families that comes from Sao Vicente?? If >> so....which surnames??? >> >> Thank you >> >> Leandro >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com >> >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >> http://new.mail.yahoo.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com >> >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com >> >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security >> tools, >> free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free >> AOL >> Mail and more. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pat….just looked on your website and among the alcunhas was one of GONCALVES BORRAGEIRO, saying that he was one ancestors of yours. It happens that I also have one GONCALVES BORRAGEIRO from Calheta that was my ancestor as well ..so most likely we are related. Have a look on the email that I sent earlier to you with the full list and let me know. Also if you can send me the list of your ancestors in that area it would be great. Thank you Leandro

Hi Pat, Im sending to you the list of my ancestors from Calheta and Estreito da Calheta as it follows: CALAHETA 1) Antonio Ferreira de Abreu that married in 1751 Brigida Ursula da Ascencao (born 25.12.1729), daughter of Manuel Romao and Isabel Maria. Manuel Romao was the son of Francisco Fernandez (married in 1676) and Maria da Conceicao. Isabel Maria was the daughter of Antonio Nunes and Clara Jose 2) Isabel Castro de Faria (born 30.3.1664) married in 14.9.1693 Jose Gomes Duarte (from Serra d’Agua) Isabel was the daughter of Francisco Estevez (married in 1659) and Ines Marques. Francisco was the son of Francisco Estevez (married in 1631) and Maria Rodrigues. Ines was the dugther of Joao Goncalves da Costa (married in 1627) and Ana Dias. Francisco Esteves was the son of Antonio Esteves and Antonia Silva. Maria Rodrigues was the daugther of Antonio Afonso and Joana Rodrigues Joao Goncalves da Costa was the son of Antonio Goncalves (married in 1592) and Luisa da Costa. Ana Dias was the daughter of Antonio Dias (married in 1597) and Ines Marques Antonio Goncalves was the son of Antonio Goncalves and Maria Goncalves. Luisa da Costa was the daughter of Miguel Nunes and Ana da Costa Antonio Dias was the son of Cosme Dias and Isabel Nunes. Ines Marques was the daugther of ??? Marques and Maria Fernandes. 3) Antonio Mendes (born in 1761) married in 1788 Maria da Silva (from Seixal). Antonio was the son of Inacio Mendes (married in 1750) and Isabel Maria da Conceicao. Isabel Maria da Conceicao was the daughter of Antonio Pereira (married in 12.1.1728) and Maria da Conceicao. Antonio Pereira was the son of Andre Pereira (married in 24.9.1679) and Isabel Goncalves. Maria da Conceicao was the daughter of Domingos Fernandes Pedra and Maria da Pascoa. Andre Pereira was the son of Joao Pereira (married in 19.7.1628) and Maria Rodrigues. Domingos Fernandes Pedra was the son of Manuel Fernandes Pedra and Isabel Fernandes. Maria da Pascoa was the daughter of Joao Ferreira and Isabel Fernandes 4) Tiburcio da Costa (married in 1725) Joana Ferreira (from Seixal) Tiburcio was the son of Domingos da Costa (married in 8.11.1683) Catarina Goncalves. Catarina Goncalves was the daughter of Francisco Goncalves da Costa (married in 23.4.1640) and Ana Nunes 5) Manuel Joao Sequeira (married in 1732) Luiza da Silva. Manuel was the son of Antonio Goncalves de Sequeira and Maria da Ascencao. Luisa da Silva was the daughter of Manuel Goncalves (married in 1701) and Catarina da Silva. Antonio Goncalves de Sequeira was the son of Antonio Goncalves de Sequeira and Bernarda Duarte. Maria da Ascencao was the daugther of Bras Goncalves de Torres and Isabel da Ascencao. Manuel Goncalves was the son of Antonio Goncalves Jar dim (married in 1659) and Maria Bras. Catarina da Silva was the daughter of Domingos Rodriguez (married in 1661) and Catarina da Silva. ESTREITO DA CALHETA 1) Pedro Delgado married with Inacia Gomes. Pedro was the son of Pedro Delgado (married in 1652) and Maria Rodrigues. 2) Francisco Goncalves Cardoso married Isabel Martins. Francisco was the son of Manuel Goncalves Borrageiro (married in 1664) Isabel Francisca 3) Joao Goncalves da Rosa married Maria Sardinha. Maria was the daughter of Antonio Rodrigues (married in 1654) and Domingas Sardinha. Antonio Rodrigues was the son of Antonio Rodriguez (married in 1616) and Francisca Rodrigues. ***** that’s all that I have for now. Will send info of the third place very soon. Can u send me a list of YOUR ancestors as well??? Any doubt just write me back and im more than happy to clarify J Leandro -----Original Message----- From: papagaia2@sbcglobal.net To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 7.11AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente Hi Leandro, Who are you researching from Calheta, Estreito da Calheta and Arco da Calheta? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: <gregobhte1@aol.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente > Hi Pat.... > > My ancestors comes from all over :) > but mainly Sao Vicente, Seixal, Some in Calheta, Ponta do Pargo, Ponta do > Sol and Ribeira Brava > > Leandro > > -----Original Message----- > From: papagaia2@sbcglobal.net > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 6.45PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente > > > Hi Leandro, > > The only individuals that I have from Sao Vicente are those that I > previously > posted. > > I have a correction/clarification to make as to the source that I quoted > when > making the following statement ..." More on Sebastiao and his family can > be > found on page 183 "Familias da Ilhas da Madeira e Porto Santo"Titulo: > Liras." > > This source should have read: " Reference to Sebastiao Rodrigues de Lira > can > be found on Page 183 under the titulo Barretos, do Arco # 5 Pg 183 of > "Famiias > da Ilhas da Madeira e Porto Santo - Titulo: Liras." > > Is Sao Vicente the only location that your ancestors came from? > Pat > > > gregobhte1@aol.com wrote: > Hi Pat...i have some Gomes-Garcez in my family...so mabe you can help me > to > expand my family tree :) > > 1) Amaro Gomes garces married in 1678 in S Vicente with Antonia Caldeira > (antonia is related to me) > > 2) Domingos Gomes Garces - son of Manuel Pacheco and Ana Rodrigues. > Domingos > married in 22 jun 1653 with Antonia Dias. He is my 9th great-grandfather > > 3) Joao Gomes Garcez - married in (???) with Maria Costa. They are the > parents > of Maria Pestana (this maria Pestana had a son that married in 1715, so > probably > this Joao Garcez was married mid 1600's or so!) > > 4) Alferes Manuel Gomes Garcez - Married Constanca Viveiros. Thir daugther > Antonia Viveiros Married in 1720 one of my relatives, Joao Teixeira > Brasao. > > All these names comes from Sao Vicente > > Thank you > > Leandro > > -----Original Message----- > From: papagaia2@sbcglobal.net > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 5:45 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente > > > I have an Alvaro Gomes who married Maria Goncalves both from Sao Vicente, > this > couple is my 9th Great Grandparents. Their daughter, Margarida Gomes > Garcez(Garces) b. abt 1590 Sao Vicente, married Sebastiao Dias de Lira b. > bef > 1590, they married 08 Jun 1610 Book 578 Pg 33v, Sao Vicente, Madeira. > Sebastiao > was also known as Sebastiao Rodriguese de Lira. More on Sebastiao and his > family can be found on page 183 "Familias da Ilhas da Madeira e Porto > Santo" > Titulo: Liras. Their son Capitao Bartolomeu Velosa de Lira married Agueda > Cesar Abreu Andrade on 30 May 1662, in the Calheta. > > This is a double line for me... another son of Sebastiao Dias de Lira and > Margarida Gomes Garcez(Garces), named Vicente de Lira Veloso b. abt 1610 > Sao > Vicente, married on 04 Feb 1652 in the Estreito da Calheta to Maria > Ferreira she > > was born on 04 Oct 1626 Estreito da Calheta... Vicente is my paternal > great > grandfather and his brother Bartolomeu noted above is my maternal great > grandfather. > > That's what I have for Sao Vicente... > > Pat Silva Corbera > . > > Luis Beal wrote: > I have an Alvaro Gomes who married Maria Dias back in 1694 in S. Antao. > Both > were born in Sao Vicente and so were their parents, Francisco de Gois and > Maria > Francisca (Alvaros' parents), and Domingos Gomes and Anto'nia Dias > (Maria's > parents). > That seems to be it for me from Sao Vicente. > Luis Beal > > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. > > > For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of > our > ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:02:21 AM > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject > > > Hey folks...how about a change of subject?????? > > Anyone here that belongs from families that comes from Sao Vicente?? If > so....which surnames??? > > Thank you > > Leandro > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > tools, > free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free > AOL > Mail and more. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mary, I agree with what Jose wrote about the name Patarelo being an alcunha/nickname. Though I did find it being used as a surname when doing a Yahoo search. Many alcunhas, bacame surnames as they were handed down generation after generation. If you haven't already you may want to contact individuals using the surname to see if they can help answer your question. On this website is some of the alcunhas found in my family ~ http://www.geocities.com/papagaia2/alcunhas.htm Pat Silva Corbera ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernandes, Jose" <jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Madeira Mary, I originally sent this e-mail with an attachment. I am not sure the e-mail will go through. Anyway, if you want the photos just let me know. José Mary, The train went up Rua do Comboio to Monte, where the Church of Our Lady of the Mountain is located (Nossa Senhora do Monte). After the major storm of 1803, Our Lady of the Mountain became the patron of Madeira. It is a place of a major pilgrimage. The train was mostly used by tourists. The train station is still there but the tracks are gone. There was an accident and I believe the company decided that was it! I am not at home, but I am sure Ilhas de Zarco or Elucidiario Madeirenese has a small paragraph on it. It is in Portuguese. Recently there have been books published about it. My grandmother also told me about the German bombing. It was by a German sub. Caused some damage, particularly in the area of what used to be the Leacock industrial park. I believe there were a couple of deaths. The fort just happened up from this area. The fort normally called Pico Radio or just Pico is still there overlooking the city. Once again, this incident has been well documented in various books, but in Portuguese. I am wondering if the archive has some of it. Patarelo seems to me that it is a nickname. The fact that it has a O before the name makes it a nickname. In the old days, Madeirans were also known by their nicknames. Some were inherited from their fathers. I have an idea, but let's see what others say. I have a whole collection of old pictures I could see you if you send me your e-mail. I am trying to attach one which shows the Rua do Comboio and its later use. José Fernandes José Fernandes Administrator Race Relations/Community and Cultural Services York Region District School Board Phone: 905 737 4353, Ext. 107 Phone: 416 969 7170, Ext 2409/107 jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There's a picture postcard on E-Bay at this address of the tracks/train Funchal Madeira http://cgi.ebay.com/MADEIRA-PORTUGAL-1905-PC-train-funchal-elevador-do-M_W0QQitemZ150092387027QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

From: "Mary Frost" <tiamaria@frostdesign.com> "Thanks to Pat Corbera for the great picture of the SS Canopic. My grandmother and three sons also sailed to US on it but not until 1921" Hi Mary, You're very welcome... It's my understanding that many of our Portuguese ancestors/relatives sailed on the SS Canopic. My maternal grandparents, along with my mom, who was 5 y/o at the time and my uncle arrived at the Port of Boston Aug 6, 1906. That sailing left Genoa, Italy on July 22, 1906, with stops in Naples, Italy; Funchal, Madeira and Azores Island of Sao Miguel. The passenger manifest recorded 55 first class passengers, 180 second and 1646 third class, for a total of 1881. I have a copy of a newspaper ad that mentions a Frank G. Silva of 76 Jackson St. San Francisco as being the "unico Agente Portuguez...stating "para quaesquer informacoes e passagens dirijam-se ao agente na Costa do Pacific." "White Star Line - Offerece Grande Vantagem Aos Portuguezes Que Viajam De New York e Boston Para Os Acores." "Vapores Rapidos, De 2 Helices, De 15,000 a 20,00 Ton." "De New York e Boston Aos Acores Directos: De Boston - Canopic 11 de Agosto, Romantic, 15 de Setembro and Canopic, 6 de Outobro (1906). De New York: Cretic, 4 de Agosto. " This ad goes on to say, that the ships of this grand company are all 1st class, with the best "acommodacoes possiveis e todos os aperfeicoamentos modernos." First class fare $50.00; 2nd class $40.00, and 3rd class $23.00, de New York e Boston directamente para os Acores, levando passageiros para qualquer das ilhas." The comidas (foods) are prepared "a moda portugueza" com a maxima limpeza, wine is served "todos os dias ao jantar." The ad was supplied by Rosemary of Seaside Ca. The passenger manifest was located on LDS Film # 1724640 "Boston Passenger List." The picture of the SS Canopic I ordered (Feb. 1994) from the Steamship Historical Society Collection - Univ. of Baltimore Library - 1420 Maryland Avenue - Baltimore, Maryland 21201... Adios, Pat Silva Corbera

Just came across a new site from DRAC (Cultural Affairs-Madeira Government) Unfortunately (for some) it is in Portuguese. www.culturede.com <http://www.culturede.com/> it contains information on cultural activities in Madeira. You may also subscribe to a newsletter. This is the site of the week in the NESOS newsletter. José José Fernandes Administrator Race Relations/Community and Cultural Services York Region District School Board Phone: 905 737 4353, Ext. 107 Phone: 416 969 7170, Ext 2409/107 jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca

Mary, I originally sent this e-mail with an attachment. I am not sure the e-mail will go through. Anyway, if you want the photos just let me know. José Mary, The train went up Rua do Comboio to Monte, where the Church of Our Lady of the Mountain is located (Nossa Senhora do Monte). After the major storm of 1803, Our Lady of the Mountain became the patron of Madeira. It is a place of a major pilgrimage. The train was mostly used by tourists. The train station is still there but the tracks are gone. There was an accident and I believe the company decided that was it! I am not at home, but I am sure Ilhas de Zarco or Elucidiario Madeirenese has a small paragraph on it. It is in Portuguese. Recently there have been books published about it. My grandmother also told me about the German bombing. It was by a German sub. Caused some damage, particularly in the area of what used to be the Leacock industrial park. I believe there were a couple of deaths. The fort just happened up from this area. The fort normally called Pico Radio or just Pico is still there overlooking the city. Once again, this incident has been well documented in various books, but in Portuguese. I am wondering if the archive has some of it. Patarelo seems to me that it is a nickname. The fact that it has a O before the name makes it a nickname. In the old days, Madeirans were also known by their nicknames. Some were inherited from their fathers. I have an idea, but let's see what others say. I have a whole collection of old pictures I could see you if you send me your e-mail. I am trying to attach one which shows the Rua do Comboio and its later use. José Fernandes José Fernandes Administrator Race Relations/Community and Cultural Services York Region District School Board Phone: 905 737 4353, Ext. 107 Phone: 416 969 7170, Ext 2409/107 jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca

Might not be just in portuguese for long. There is an "english" link at the bottom of the page but does not work yet. So there is hope for non-portuguese speakers. Luis Beal Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Madeiran site Just came across a new site from DRAC (Cultural Affairs-Madeira Government) Unfortunately (for some) it is in Portuguese. www.culturede.com <http://www.culturede.com/> it contains information on cultural activities in Madeira. You may also subscribe to a newsletter. This is the site of the week in the NESOS newsletter. José José Fernandes Administrator Race Relations/Community and Cultural Services York Region District School Board Phone: 905 737 4353, Ext. 107 Phone: 416 969 7170, Ext 2409/107 jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com

Hi Leandro, Who are you researching from Calheta, Estreito da Calheta and Arco da Calheta? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: <gregobhte1@aol.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente > Hi Pat.... > > My ancestors comes from all over :) > but mainly Sao Vicente, Seixal, Some in Calheta, Ponta do Pargo, Ponta do > Sol and Ribeira Brava > > Leandro > > -----Original Message----- > From: papagaia2@sbcglobal.net > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 6.45PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente > > > Hi Leandro, > > The only individuals that I have from Sao Vicente are those that I > previously > posted. > > I have a correction/clarification to make as to the source that I quoted > when > making the following statement ..." More on Sebastiao and his family can > be > found on page 183 "Familias da Ilhas da Madeira e Porto Santo"Titulo: > Liras." > > This source should have read: " Reference to Sebastiao Rodrigues de Lira > can > be found on Page 183 under the titulo Barretos, do Arco # 5 Pg 183 of > "Famiias > da Ilhas da Madeira e Porto Santo - Titulo: Liras." > > Is Sao Vicente the only location that your ancestors came from? > Pat > > > gregobhte1@aol.com wrote: > Hi Pat...i have some Gomes-Garcez in my family...so mabe you can help me > to > expand my family tree :) > > 1) Amaro Gomes garces married in 1678 in S Vicente with Antonia Caldeira > (antonia is related to me) > > 2) Domingos Gomes Garces - son of Manuel Pacheco and Ana Rodrigues. > Domingos > married in 22 jun 1653 with Antonia Dias. He is my 9th great-grandfather > > 3) Joao Gomes Garcez - married in (???) with Maria Costa. They are the > parents > of Maria Pestana (this maria Pestana had a son that married in 1715, so > probably > this Joao Garcez was married mid 1600's or so!) > > 4) Alferes Manuel Gomes Garcez - Married Constanca Viveiros. Thir daugther > Antonia Viveiros Married in 1720 one of my relatives, Joao Teixeira > Brasao. > > All these names comes from Sao Vicente > > Thank you > > Leandro > > -----Original Message----- > From: papagaia2@sbcglobal.net > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 5:45 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject - S. Vicente > > > I have an Alvaro Gomes who married Maria Goncalves both from Sao Vicente, > this > couple is my 9th Great Grandparents. Their daughter, Margarida Gomes > Garcez(Garces) b. abt 1590 Sao Vicente, married Sebastiao Dias de Lira b. > bef > 1590, they married 08 Jun 1610 Book 578 Pg 33v, Sao Vicente, Madeira. > Sebastiao > was also known as Sebastiao Rodriguese de Lira. More on Sebastiao and his > family can be found on page 183 "Familias da Ilhas da Madeira e Porto > Santo" > Titulo: Liras. Their son Capitao Bartolomeu Velosa de Lira married Agueda > Cesar Abreu Andrade on 30 May 1662, in the Calheta. > > This is a double line for me... another son of Sebastiao Dias de Lira and > Margarida Gomes Garcez(Garces), named Vicente de Lira Veloso b. abt 1610 > Sao > Vicente, married on 04 Feb 1652 in the Estreito da Calheta to Maria > Ferreira she > > was born on 04 Oct 1626 Estreito da Calheta... Vicente is my paternal > great > grandfather and his brother Bartolomeu noted above is my maternal great > grandfather. > > That's what I have for Sao Vicente... > > Pat Silva Corbera > . > > Luis Beal wrote: > I have an Alvaro Gomes who married Maria Dias back in 1694 in S. Antao. > Both > were born in Sao Vicente and so were their parents, Francisco de Gois and > Maria > Francisca (Alvaros' parents), and Domingos Gomes and Anto'nia Dias > (Maria's > parents). > That seems to be it for me from Sao Vicente. > Luis Beal > > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. > > > For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of > our > ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:02:21 AM > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Change of subject > > > Hey folks...how about a change of subject?????? > > Anyone here that belongs from families that comes from Sao Vicente?? If > so....which surnames??? > > Thank you > > Leandro > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > tools, > free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free > AOL > Mail and more. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello to everyone. Does anyone know what might be the meaning of the expression O Patarelo? When I first saw it after the last name of one of my ancestors, I thought perhaps it was a misspelling of the name Perestrelo. The writer of the document in question had very poor handwriting. I have since found two more documents regarding the same individual and it looks much more like O Patarelo. I have consulted two dictionaries and cannot even make an educated guess. Does anyone know anything about a "train" accident on Madeira in early 1910s? My late father spoke of any incident he remembered from his boyhood but the details were fuzzy. (he left the island in 1921 just before his 10th birthday) He said the "train" went up the hill every day. Apparently his family used it regularly but did not use it the day of the explosion. I believe it may have been a funicular but cannot find anything to confirm or deny. Dad also spoke of a time during WWI when the German ships came into the harbor in Funchal. Everyone fled to the hills. My grandfather was an army officer at the time so my father's family went to "a fort" above the city when the ships began firing into the city. Does anyone know any details? Thanks to Pat Corbera for the great picture of the SS Canopic. My grandmother and three sons also sailed to US on it but not until 1921. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you Mary da Silva Frost

Well, Luis I can totally see that happening. So many times people get associated with famous people because they have the same name. I think it is cool (nice to see there is a portuguese name before that KW) :) Link of the day: Here is a list of parishes of Portugal by municipality, and of course it includes those from Madeira, http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=List+of+Freguesias+of+Portugal%3A+A&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&linktext=A (ex: if you go to P, then Porto Moniz, you will find its parishes). I came across it some time ago and found it helpful. If anyone knows of any other cool Madeira links that help us with research please post. Even Nesos and Arquivo Madeira could be reposted. I have a full day today or I'd do it. Luis Beal Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:10:47 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] de Sousa You are on an ego trip. Come down to earth ----- Original Message ----- Annie 23 From: <luis_k_w@clix.pt> To: "Scot Austin" <scotaustin@comcast.net>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] de Sousa > Scot, > J.P.de Sousa's mother was from Austria. > But you are right about his father being born in Seville (Spain). > > >From "Revista da Armada" http://www.marinha.pt/extra/revista/ra_fev2004/pag_18.html : > > «Nascido em Washington, a 6 de Novembro de 1854, John Philip de Sousa era filho do português António Sousa e de uma austríaca, Marie Elisabeth Trinkaus. António era natural de Sevilha, onde os seus pais, João António de Sousa e Josefina Branco (que algumas fontes referem serem originários dos Açores), se terão refugiado (por motivos políticos?) durante a Guerra Peninsular. Servira nas Marinhas Britânica e Americana e participara na guerra entre os E.U.A. e o México, antes de se fixar definitivamente em solo americano, onde viera a casar. Possivelmente presenciou alguns combates da Guerra da Secessão durante a infância de John Philip. Na sua árvore genealógica figuram nomes como Tomé de Sousa, primeiro Governador-Geral do Brasil, e Martim Afonso de Sousa, colonizador do Brasil e Governador da Índia.» > > Luis K W > Lisboa-Portugal > > ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- > I believe his father was born in Spain, he was potuguese, however, his > mother was German. > > Scot > > luis_k_w@clix.pt wrote: > Jose', > > John Philip de Sousa was born in the US. His father was from the Azores. > > I studied in Belgium in the 1970's. In that time there was a portuguese singer called "Linda de Suza" (deolinda de sousa) in the tops in every european country where there was a portuguese community of immigrants. > (she was not as good and famous as Nelly Furtado, but our immigrants loved her, because she told their story in her songs) > > My mother's name includes "de Sousa". > So, Belgians use to call me "monsieur de Sousa". > Once, during an exam, a teacher told me I was from a family with a lot of musicians...! :-)) > > Luis de Sousa K. W. > Lisboa-Portugal > > > > > > ------------- > > Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de ? 29,90/mês > A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! > > Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

You are right Luis K. After I posted the comment I realized that with the exception of Max, Madeirans don't have too many famous musicians. I believe the Azoreans claim him as one of them. Now Nelly Furtado is Canadian ...and Azorean! José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of luis_k_w@clix.pt Sent: February 19, 2007 6:46 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] de Sousa Jose', John Philip de Sousa was born in the US. His father was from the Azores. I studied in Belgium in the 1970's. In that time there was a portuguese singer called "Linda de Suza" (deolinda de sousa) in the tops in every european country where there was a portuguese community of immigrants. (she was not as good and famous as Nelly Furtado, but our immigrants loved her, because she told their story in her songs) My mother's name includes "de Sousa". So, Belgians use to call me "monsieur de Sousa". Once, during an exam, a teacher told me I was from a family with a lot of musicians...! :-)) Luis de Sousa K. W. Lisboa-Portugal ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- Leandro, I am not as advanced as you. I am mostly concentrating on my Fernandes line from Caniço. My Rodrigues line is from my mother's side. At the moment I am awaiting for a passport package for my great great-grandfather, Manuel Rodrigues de Pedro who went to Cantagalo, Rio de Janeiro in early 1890. My great-grandfather dropped the "de Pedro" and I found that out only recently. Manuel was of "pai incognito". My great-grandmother was also from Ponta do Sol. Her father was a Paixão. Can't find that name anywhere there. Anyway, I have friends who live there and I will follow this up, but for the moment I am stuck in 1687 in Caniço. As you know, one of the greatest American writers, John dos Passos, his grandfather was from the village. There is a museum named after him there. Do visit it when you go. I believe that DeSousa, the American musician, was also from there. Anybody to correct this? José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gregobhte1@aol.com Sent: February 19, 2007 3:32 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara Hi Jose... have some ancestors in Ponta do Sol as well.... Do u have any link with your family tree to send t me, so i coulod check if we are related in some way :) Leandro -----Original Message----- From: jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 7.50PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara That confuses me too, Luis? Anyway, Katherine has already answered it. Although I am not a Camara, I am a Rodrigues as in Rodrigues de Pedro, from Ponta do Sol. José Fernandes -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Luis Beal Sent: February 19, 2007 1:47 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara It always fascinates me to see this name picking process. My ancestor was Pedro Moniz da Camara, married to Isabel de Andrade (my 10th great-grandparents). According to "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" by Luis Clode he was the son of Pedro Moniz da Camara and Valentina Berenger, who in turn was the son of Filipa da Camara and Francisco Moniz (which makes him brother to your Joao). I do not have this line entered in my database as I have not yet found proof of its validity and I found a big booboo in this "Cabrais" section. For my line though, the Moniz Camara survived 3 male generations, then it was a mixture of Moniz or Moniz Camara all the way down to my grandmother whose maiden name was Moniz. But because this is a name one is supposed to be proud of carrying my mother passed it down to us and my sister to her children. So the legacy continues. Question, if you are a Rodrigues Camara why do you sign Fernandes? Luis Beal SURNAME CÂMARA - FIVE CENTURIES OLD - LEGACY OF A SAILOR www.geocities.com/Heartland/1074/sailor.htm http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/1074/sailor.htm The surname Câmara is now 527 years old. The first person entitled to use this family name was JOÃO GONÇALVES ZARCO, a Portuguese sailor who used to fight the moors alongside Africa's coast on service to His Majesty, the King of Portugal. In one of those battles, his ship went astray, arriving by chance in a group of islands located about 400 miles away from Morocco's coast. The largest island was covered by a luxuriant vegetation so Zarco named it Ilha da Madeira (Wood Island). On the shore of that island, he and his crew saw a number of sea lions (in ancient Portuguese "sea wolves") hidden in a cave and they called that place "Câmara de Lobos" (Cave of Wolves). On his return to Portugal, Zarco reported his discovery to His Majesty. The King then authorized Zarco and his fellows, Tristão Vaz and Bartholomeu Perestrello, to start colonization of these islands. Each of them was in charge of a "Capitania": Zarco in Funchal, Tristão in Machico, and Perestrello in Porto Santo. Due to the efficiency of those men, in a few decades s riches could be transferred to the Kingdom of Portugal. King Dom Afonso rewarded those men with noble titles. On the fourth of July of 1460, His Majesty Dom Afonso of Portugal issued a Royal Decree granting João Gonçalves Zarco the title of Knight and a Coat of Arms and changed his name to JOÃO GONÇALVES DA CÂMARA DE LOBOS. In spite of the Royal Decree, the family name "Gonçalves da Câmara de Lobos" did not last as such. Zarco's sons and daughters used either "Gonçalves da Câmara" or "Rodrigues da Câmara", being "Rodrigues" Zarco's wife's family name. In the generations that followed, the surname "Câmara" has been combined with many other family names, inaugurating new families, such as "Bittencourt da Câmara", "Cabral da Câmara", "Leme da Câmara", "Monis da Câmara", etc. The original surname "Gonçalves da Câmara" can still be found among descendants of the first Captain of Madeira Island. The surname "Câmara" made its way through the centuries to reach me on the 20th Century. There were moments when this family name was almost left aside. For instance, an ancestor of mine, a granddaughter of Zarco, CONSTANÇA RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, married Diogo Cabral. Their two daughters instead of taking their father's surname, preferred their mother's, "Câmara". They were Isabel and PHILIPPA DA CÂMARA. Isabel became a nun, so Philippa was the only one supposed to carry the family name ahead. Philippa da Câmara and her husband, Francisco Monis, had eight children. Six of them took their grandfather's family name "Cabral". The other two maintained the surname "Câmara", one combining it with "Monis" and my ancestor JOÃO RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA kept his mother's full family name. For the next two generations, surname "Câmara" was safe. But danger was close when, on the 2nd of December of 1606, MARIA MONIS DA CÂMARA, grand-daughter of João Rodrigues da Câmara, got married to Pero Berenguer de Leminhana, who was of Spanish origin. They had five sons and each of them adopted a different family name, combining their ancestors' surnames: João Berenguer de Andrada Pedro Berenguer de Leminhana Manoel d'Andrada de Leminhana Bartholomeu de Melo Berenguer and my ancestor FRANCISCO MONIS DA CÂMARA. Francisco's son, MANOEL MONIS DA CÂMARA, born in September, 1671, was responsible for taking the surname "Câmara" to Brazil. In approximately 1710, he left Madeira Island and headed for the New World. At that time, the search for gold was the main activity of Brazilian population. Majority of gold mines were located in Minas Gerais Province of Brazil, where Manoel Monis da Câmara and his cousin Manoel Bittencourt da Câmara settled. The latter found a gold mine and became one of the richest men of that time. However my ancestor, Manoel Monis da Câmara, was not that lucky. But it seems that he had some kind of assistance from his rich cousin so that he was able to buy a farm. He became a farmer and raised his children: Manoel, Anna, Rosa and Josepha. All of them which had the surname "Monis da Câmara". JOSEPHA MONIS DA CÂMARA got married to maderian Manoel Gomes Rodrigues in 1737. They had eleven children. The surname "Câmara" then faced its almost fatal crisis. Only one of Josepha's sons, Philippe, took surname "Câmara". He would sign a long and pompous family name: "Gomes Rodrigues da Câmara". Philippe Gomes Rodrigues da Câmara, a farmer and gold miner, died in August, 1818, leaving six sons and two daughters. Again, the surname "Câmara" was in danger. Only one of his sons, my ancestor JOSÉ GOMES RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, kept the family's full name which has been passed on to his descendants reaching the 20th Century. My grandfather ILLIDIO GOMES RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, who was born on the 30th of October of 1879 and died on the 20th of October of 1950, was the last one to bear such a long family name. My father, myself and my brothers still keep "Rodrigues Câmara". However my father's grandchildren only were give the surname "Câmara". It took me many years of genealogical research to align all links from me to the first Câmara, João Gonçalves Zarco, the sailor. What was supposed to be my inheritance from him after 500 years? If heritage was mathematical, after 17 generations, only 1/66124th of his characteristics could be detected on me. On the other hand, 1 /3rd of his original family name, "Gonçalves da CÂMARA de Lobos, is still found in my own family name... I am proud of this legacy. __._,_.___ José Fernandes Administrator Race Relations/Community and Cultural Services York Region District School Board Phone: 905 737 4353, Ext. 107 Phone: 416 969 7170, Ext 2409/107 jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de € 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/

You are on an ego trip. Come down to earth ----- Original Message ----- Annie 23 From: <luis_k_w@clix.pt> To: "Scot Austin" <scotaustin@comcast.net>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] de Sousa > Scot, > J.P.de Sousa's mother was from Austria. > But you are right about his father being born in Seville (Spain). > > >From "Revista da Armada" http://www.marinha.pt/extra/revista/ra_fev2004/pag_18.html : > > «Nascido em Washington, a 6 de Novembro de 1854, John Philip de Sousa era filho do português António Sousa e de uma austríaca, Marie Elisabeth Trinkaus. António era natural de Sevilha, onde os seus pais, João António de Sousa e Josefina Branco (que algumas fontes referem serem originários dos Açores), se terão refugiado (por motivos políticos?) durante a Guerra Peninsular. Servira nas Marinhas Britânica e Americana e participara na guerra entre os E.U.A. e o México, antes de se fixar definitivamente em solo americano, onde viera a casar. Possivelmente presenciou alguns combates da Guerra da Secessão durante a infância de John Philip. Na sua árvore genealógica figuram nomes como Tomé de Sousa, primeiro Governador-Geral do Brasil, e Martim Afonso de Sousa, colonizador do Brasil e Governador da Índia.» > > Luis K W > Lisboa-Portugal > > ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- > I believe his father was born in Spain, he was potuguese, however, his > mother was German. > > Scot > > luis_k_w@clix.pt wrote: > Jose', > > John Philip de Sousa was born in the US. His father was from the Azores. > > I studied in Belgium in the 1970's. In that time there was a portuguese singer called "Linda de Suza" (deolinda de sousa) in the tops in every european country where there was a portuguese community of immigrants. > (she was not as good and famous as Nelly Furtado, but our immigrants loved her, because she told their story in her songs) > > My mother's name includes "de Sousa". > So, Belgians use to call me "monsieur de Sousa". > Once, during an exam, a teacher told me I was from a family with a lot of musicians...! :-)) > > Luis de Sousa K. W. > Lisboa-Portugal > > > > > > ------------- > > Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de ? 29,90/mês > A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! > > Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Scot, J.P.de Sousa's mother was from Austria. But you are right about his father being born in Seville (Spain). >From "Revista da Armada" http://www.marinha.pt/extra/revista/ra_fev2004/pag_18.html : «Nascido em Washington, a 6 de Novembro de 1854, John Philip de Sousa era filho do português António Sousa e de uma austríaca, Marie Elisabeth Trinkaus. António era natural de Sevilha, onde os seus pais, João António de Sousa e Josefina Branco (que algumas fontes referem serem originários dos Açores), se terão refugiado (por motivos políticos?) durante a Guerra Peninsular. Servira nas Marinhas Britânica e Americana e participara na guerra entre os E.U.A. e o México, antes de se fixar definitivamente em solo americano, onde viera a casar. Possivelmente presenciou alguns combates da Guerra da Secessão durante a infância de John Philip. Na sua árvore genealógica figuram nomes como Tomé de Sousa, primeiro Governador-Geral do Brasil, e Martim Afonso de Sousa, colonizador do Brasil e Governador da Índia.» Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- I believe his father was born in Spain, he was potuguese, however, his mother was German. Scot luis_k_w@clix.pt wrote: Jose', John Philip de Sousa was born in the US. His father was from the Azores. I studied in Belgium in the 1970's. In that time there was a portuguese singer called "Linda de Suza" (deolinda de sousa) in the tops in every european country where there was a portuguese community of immigrants. (she was not as good and famous as Nelly Furtado, but our immigrants loved her, because she told their story in her songs) My mother's name includes "de Sousa". So, Belgians use to call me "monsieur de Sousa". Once, during an exam, a teacher told me I was from a family with a lot of musicians...! :-)) Luis de Sousa K. W. Lisboa-Portugal ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de € 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/

Jose', John Philip de Sousa was born in the US. His father was from the Azores. I studied in Belgium in the 1970's. In that time there was a portuguese singer called "Linda de Suza" (deolinda de sousa) in the tops in every european country where there was a portuguese community of immigrants. (she was not as good and famous as Nelly Furtado, but our immigrants loved her, because she told their story in her songs) My mother's name includes "de Sousa". So, Belgians use to call me "monsieur de Sousa". Once, during an exam, a teacher told me I was from a family with a lot of musicians...! :-)) Luis de Sousa K. W. Lisboa-Portugal ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- Leandro, I am not as advanced as you. I am mostly concentrating on my Fernandes line from Caniço. My Rodrigues line is from my mother's side. At the moment I am awaiting for a passport package for my great great-grandfather, Manuel Rodrigues de Pedro who went to Cantagalo, Rio de Janeiro in early 1890. My great-grandfather dropped the "de Pedro" and I found that out only recently. Manuel was of "pai incognito". My great-grandmother was also from Ponta do Sol. Her father was a Paixão. Can't find that name anywhere there. Anyway, I have friends who live there and I will follow this up, but for the moment I am stuck in 1687 in Caniço. As you know, one of the greatest American writers, John dos Passos, his grandfather was from the village. There is a museum named after him there. Do visit it when you go. I believe that DeSousa, the American musician, was also from there. Anybody to correct this? José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gregobhte1@aol.com Sent: February 19, 2007 3:32 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara Hi Jose... have some ancestors in Ponta do Sol as well.... Do u have any link with your family tree to send t me, so i coulod check if we are related in some way :) Leandro -----Original Message----- From: jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 7.50PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara That confuses me too, Luis? Anyway, Katherine has already answered it. Although I am not a Camara, I am a Rodrigues as in Rodrigues de Pedro, from Ponta do Sol. José Fernandes -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Luis Beal Sent: February 19, 2007 1:47 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara It always fascinates me to see this name picking process. My ancestor was Pedro Moniz da Camara, married to Isabel de Andrade (my 10th great-grandparents). According to "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" by Luis Clode he was the son of Pedro Moniz da Camara and Valentina Berenger, who in turn was the son of Filipa da Camara and Francisco Moniz (which makes him brother to your Joao). I do not have this line entered in my database as I have not yet found proof of its validity and I found a big booboo in this "Cabrais" section. For my line though, the Moniz Camara survived 3 male generations, then it was a mixture of Moniz or Moniz Camara all the way down to my grandmother whose maiden name was Moniz. But because this is a name one is supposed to be proud of carrying my mother passed it down to us and my sister to her children. So the legacy continues. Question, if you are a Rodrigues Camara why do you sign Fernandes? Luis Beal SURNAME CÂMARA - FIVE CENTURIES OLD - LEGACY OF A SAILOR www.geocities.com/Heartland/1074/sailor.htm http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/1074/sailor.htm The surname Câmara is now 527 years old. The first person entitled to use this family name was JOÃO GONÇALVES ZARCO, a Portuguese sailor who used to fight the moors alongside Africa's coast on service to His Majesty, the King of Portugal. In one of those battles, his ship went astray, arriving by chance in a group of islands located about 400 miles away from Morocco's coast. The largest island was covered by a luxuriant vegetation so Zarco named it Ilha da Madeira (Wood Island). On the shore of that island, he and his crew saw a number of sea lions (in ancient Portuguese "sea wolves") hidden in a cave and they called that place "Câmara de Lobos" (Cave of Wolves). On his return to Portugal, Zarco reported his discovery to His Majesty. The King then authorized Zarco and his fellows, Tristão Vaz and Bartholomeu Perestrello, to start colonization of these islands. Each of them was in charge of a "Capitania": Zarco in Funchal, Tristão in Machico, and Perestrello in Porto Santo. Due to the efficiency of those men, in a few decades s riches could be transferred to the Kingdom of Portugal. King Dom Afonso rewarded those men with noble titles. On the fourth of July of 1460, His Majesty Dom Afonso of Portugal issued a Royal Decree granting João Gonçalves Zarco the title of Knight and a Coat of Arms and changed his name to JOÃO GONÇALVES DA CÂMARA DE LOBOS. In spite of the Royal Decree, the family name "Gonçalves da Câmara de Lobos" did not last as such. Zarco's sons and daughters used either "Gonçalves da Câmara" or "Rodrigues da Câmara", being "Rodrigues" Zarco's wife's family name. In the generations that followed, the surname "Câmara" has been combined with many other family names, inaugurating new families, such as "Bittencourt da Câmara", "Cabral da Câmara", "Leme da Câmara", "Monis da Câmara", etc. The original surname "Gonçalves da Câmara" can still be found among descendants of the first Captain of Madeira Island. The surname "Câmara" made its way through the centuries to reach me on the 20th Century. There were moments when this family name was almost left aside. For instance, an ancestor of mine, a granddaughter of Zarco, CONSTANÇA RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, married Diogo Cabral. Their two daughters instead of taking their father's surname, preferred their mother's, "Câmara". They were Isabel and PHILIPPA DA CÂMARA. Isabel became a nun, so Philippa was the only one supposed to carry the family name ahead. Philippa da Câmara and her husband, Francisco Monis, had eight children. Six of them took their grandfather's family name "Cabral". The other two maintained the surname "Câmara", one combining it with "Monis" and my ancestor JOÃO RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA kept his mother's full family name. For the next two generations, surname "Câmara" was safe. But danger was close when, on the 2nd of December of 1606, MARIA MONIS DA CÂMARA, grand-daughter of João Rodrigues da Câmara, got married to Pero Berenguer de Leminhana, who was of Spanish origin. They had five sons and each of them adopted a different family name, combining their ancestors' surnames: João Berenguer de Andrada Pedro Berenguer de Leminhana Manoel d'Andrada de Leminhana Bartholomeu de Melo Berenguer and my ancestor FRANCISCO MONIS DA CÂMARA. Francisco's son, MANOEL MONIS DA CÂMARA, born in September, 1671, was responsible for taking the surname "Câmara" to Brazil. In approximately 1710, he left Madeira Island and headed for the New World. At that time, the search for gold was the main activity of Brazilian population. Majority of gold mines were located in Minas Gerais Province of Brazil, where Manoel Monis da Câmara and his cousin Manoel Bittencourt da Câmara settled. The latter found a gold mine and became one of the richest men of that time. However my ancestor, Manoel Monis da Câmara, was not that lucky. But it seems that he had some kind of assistance from his rich cousin so that he was able to buy a farm. He became a farmer and raised his children: Manoel, Anna, Rosa and Josepha. All of them which had the surname "Monis da Câmara". JOSEPHA MONIS DA CÂMARA got married to maderian Manoel Gomes Rodrigues in 1737. They had eleven children. The surname "Câmara" then faced its almost fatal crisis. Only one of Josepha's sons, Philippe, took surname "Câmara". He would sign a long and pompous family name: "Gomes Rodrigues da Câmara". Philippe Gomes Rodrigues da Câmara, a farmer and gold miner, died in August, 1818, leaving six sons and two daughters. Again, the surname "Câmara" was in danger. Only one of his sons, my ancestor JOSÉ GOMES RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, kept the family's full name which has been passed on to his descendants reaching the 20th Century. My grandfather ILLIDIO GOMES RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, who was born on the 30th of October of 1879 and died on the 20th of October of 1950, was the last one to bear such a long family name. My father, myself and my brothers still keep "Rodrigues Câmara". However my father's grandchildren only were give the surname "Câmara". It took me many years of genealogical research to align all links from me to the first Câmara, João Gonçalves Zarco, the sailor. What was supposed to be my inheritance from him after 500 years? If heritage was mathematical, after 17 generations, only 1/66124th of his characteristics could be detected on me. On the other hand, 1 /3rd of his original family name, "Gonçalves da CÂMARA de Lobos, is still found in my own family name... I am proud of this legacy. __._,_.___ José Fernandes Administrator Race Relations/Community and Cultural Services York Region District School Board Phone: 905 737 4353, Ext. 107 Phone: 416 969 7170, Ext 2409/107 jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de € 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/

Thank youor youyr tips, Luis and Jose....when i will be there in madeira in July i will further my research! :) Leandro -----Original Message----- From: jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 9.02PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara Leandro, I am not as advanced as you. I am mostly concentrating on my Fernandes line from Caniço. My Rodrigues line is from my mother's side. At the moment I am awaiting for a passport package for my great great-grandfather, Manuel Rodrigues de Pedro who went to Cantagalo, Rio de Janeiro in early 1890. My great-grandfather dropped the "de Pedro" and I found that out only recently. Manuel was of "pai incognito". My great-grandmother was also from Ponta do Sol. Her father was a Paixão. Can't find that name anywhere there. Anyway, I have friends who live there and I will follow this up, but for the moment I am stuck in 1687 in Caniço. As you know, one of the greatest American writers, John dos Passos, his grandfather was from the village. There is a museum named after him there. Do visit it when you go. I believe that DeSousa, the American musician, was also from there. Anybody to correct this? José -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gregobhte1@aol.com Sent: February 19, 2007 3:32 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara Hi Jose... have some ancestors in Ponta do Sol as well.... Do u have any link with your family tree to send t me, so i coulod check if we are related in some way :) Leandro -----Original Message----- From: jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 7.50PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara That confuses me too, Luis? Anyway, Katherine has already answered it. Although I am not a Camara, I am a Rodrigues as in Rodrigues de Pedro, from Ponta do Sol. José Fernandes -----Original Message----- From: prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prt-madeira-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Luis Beal Sent: February 19, 2007 1:47 PM To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camara It always fascinates me to see this name picking process. My ancestor was Pedro Moniz da Camara, married to Isabel de Andrade (my 10th great-grandparents). According to "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" by Luis Clode he was the son of Pedro Moniz da Camara and Valentina Berenger, who in turn was the son of Filipa da Camara and Francisco Moniz (which makes him brother to your Joao). I do not have this line entered in my database as I have not yet found proof of its validity and I found a big booboo in this "Cabrais" section. For my line though, the Moniz Camara survived 3 male generations, then it was a mixture of Moniz or Moniz Camara all the way down to my grandmother whose maiden name was Moniz. But because this is a name one is supposed to be proud of carrying my mother passed it down to us and my sister to her children. So the legacy continues. Question, if you are a Rodrigues Camara why do you sign Fernandes? Luis Beal SURNAME CÂMARA - FIVE CENTURIES OLD - LEGACY OF A SAILOR www.geocities.com/Heartland/1074/sailor.htm <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/1074/sailor.htm> The surname Câmara is now 527 years old. The first person entitled to use this family name was JOÃO GONÇALVES ZARCO, a Portuguese sailor who used to fight the moors alongside Africa's coast on service to His Majesty, the King of Portugal. In one of those battles, his ship went astray, arriving by chance in a group of islands located about 400 miles away from Morocco's coast. The largest island was covered by a luxuriant vegetation so Zarco named it Ilha da Madeira (Wood Island). On the shore of that island, he and his crew saw a number of sea lions (in ancient Portuguese "sea wolves") hidden in a cave and they called that place "Câmara de Lobos" (Cave of Wolves). On his return to Portugal, Zarco reported his discovery to His Majesty. The King then authorized Zarco and his fellows, Tristão Vaz and Bartholomeu Perestrello, to start colonization of these islands. Each of them was in charge of a "Capitania": Zarco in Funchal, Tristão in Machico, and Perestrello in Porto Santo. Due to the efficiency of those men, in a few decades s riches could be transferred to the Kingdom of Portugal. King Dom Afonso rewarded those men with noble titles. On the fourth of July of 1460, His Majesty Dom Afonso of Portugal issued a Royal Decree granting João Gonçalves Zarco the title of Knight and a Coat of Arms and changed his name to JOÃO GONÇALVES DA CÂMARA DE LOBOS. In spite of the Royal Decree, the family name "Gonçalves da Câmara de Lobos" did not last as such. Zarco's sons and daughters used either "Gonçalves da Câmara" or "Rodrigues da Câmara", being "Rodrigues" Zarco's wife's family name. In the generations that followed, the surname "Câmara" has been combined with many other family names, inaugurating new families, such as "Bittencourt da Câmara", "Cabral da Câmara", "Leme da Câmara", "Monis da Câmara", etc. The original surname "Gonçalves da Câmara" can still be found among descendants of the first Captain of Madeira Island. The surname "Câmara" made its way through the centuries to reach me on the 20th Century. There were moments when this family name was almost left aside. For instance, an ancestor of mine, a granddaughter of Zarco, CONSTANÇA RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, married Diogo Cabral. Their two daughters instead of taking their father's surname, preferred their mother's, "Câmara". They were Isabel and PHILIPPA DA CÂMARA. Isabel became a nun, so Philippa was the only one supposed to carry the family name ahead. Philippa da Câmara and her husband, Francisco Monis, had eight children. Six of them took their grandfather's family name "Cabral". The other two maintained the surname "Câmara", one combining it with "Monis" and my ancestor JOÃO RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA kept his mother's full family name. For the next two generations, surname "Câmara" was safe. But danger was close when, on the 2nd of December of 1606, MARIA MONIS DA CÂMARA, grand-daughter of João Rodrigues da Câmara, got married to Pero Berenguer de Leminhana, who was of Spanish origin. They had five sons and each of them adopted a different family name, combining their ancestors' surnames: João Berenguer de Andrada Pedro Berenguer de Leminhana Manoel d'Andrada de Leminhana Bartholomeu de Melo Berenguer and my ancestor FRANCISCO MONIS DA CÂMARA. Francisco's son, MANOEL MONIS DA CÂMARA, born in September, 1671, was responsible for taking the surname "Câmara" to Brazil. In approximately 1710, he left Madeira Island and headed for the New World. At that time, the search for gold was the main activity of Brazilian population. Majority of gold mines were located in Minas Gerais Province of Brazil, where Manoel Monis da Câmara and his cousin Manoel Bittencourt da Câmara settled. The latter found a gold mine and became one of the richest men of that time. However my ancestor, Manoel Monis da Câmara, was not that lucky. But it seems that he had some kind of assistance from his rich cousin so that he was able to buy a farm. He became a farmer and raised his children: Manoel, Anna, Rosa and Josepha. All of them which had the surname "Monis da Câmara". JOSEPHA MONIS DA CÂMARA got married to maderian Manoel Gomes Rodrigues in 1737. They had eleven children. The surname "Câmara" then faced its almost fatal crisis. Only one of Josepha's sons, Philippe, took surname "Câmara". He would sign a long and pompous family name: "Gomes Rodrigues da Câmara". Philippe Gomes Rodrigues da Câmara, a farmer and gold miner, died in August, 1818, leaving six sons and two daughters. Again, the surname "Câmara" was in danger. Only one of his sons, my ancestor JOSÉ GOMES RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, kept the family's full name which has been passed on to his descendants reaching the 20th Century. My grandfather ILLIDIO GOMES RODRIGUES DA CÂMARA, who was born on the 30th of October of 1879 and died on the 20th of October of 1950, was the last one to bear such a long family name. My father, myself and my brothers still keep "Rodrigues Câmara". However my father's grandchildren only were give the surname "Câmara". It took me many years of genealogical research to align all links from me to the first Câmara, João Gonçalves Zarco, the sailor. What was supposed to be my inheritance from him after 500 years? If heritage was mathematical, after 17 generations, only 1/66124th of his characteristics could be detected on me. On the other hand, 1 /3rd of his original family name, "Gonçalves da CÂMARA de Lobos, is still found in my own family name... I am proud of this legacy. __._,_.___ José Fernandes Administrator Race Relations/Community and Cultural Services York Region District School Board Phone: 905 737 4353, Ext. 107 Phone: 416 969 7170, Ext 2409/107 jose.fernandes@yrdsb.edu.on.ca ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! 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I believe his father was born in Spain, he was potuguese, however, his mother was German. Scot luis_k_w@clix.pt wrote: > Jose', > > John Philip de Sousa was born in the US. His father was from the Azores. > > I studied in Belgium in the 1970's. In that time there was a portuguese singer called "Linda de Suza" (deolinda de sousa) in the tops in every european country where there was a portuguese community of immigrants. > (she was not as good and famous as Nelly Furtado, but our immigrants loved her, because she told their story in her songs) > > My mother's name includes "de Sousa". > So, Belgians use to call me "monsieur de Sousa". > Once, during an exam, a teacher told me I was from a family with a lot of musicians...! :-)) > > Luis de Sousa K. W. > Lisboa-Portugal >