I just noticed I made a mistake. Nobiliario does list Catarina as their daughter, married in Ribeira Grande with Francisco Afonso das Cortes. Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/9/2007 12:48:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gregobhte1@aol.com writes: Hi Denise..... Although the nobiliario from Henrique henriques de noronha is taken as a good source, lately has been discovered that many of his sources was "fabricated" to enhance his family towards nobility. the best way to really assure if someone descends from the John Drummond family is to find a relative or ancestor that carries the escorcio or drummond surname, once we know that the only way to carry that name is coming from the same family, specially if that branch comes from areas like santa cruz, gaula or machico. leandro -----Original Message----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.33pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i John, was looking through Saudades Livro IV this morning and it says Catarina scorcia (married to Francisco Afonso das Cortes) was the daughter of Joao oncalves Ferreira, da Serra de Agua and his wife Catarina Afonso. It says oao escends from Belchior Goncalves Escorcio who is one of the sons of Branca fonso Drummond and Belchior Goncalves Ferreira. o you have access to that book? If so, The chapter they are in starts on age 125. The info about Catarina Escorcio is on page 127 bottom right corner aragraph. hen if you look at Noronha's Nobiliario, he says Belchior Goncalves scorcio married Ana Ferreira 9 Jan 1563 in the Se of Funchal. It shows their on oao aka da Serra da Agua, relocate to Sao Miguel with his wife Catarina fonso, but only shows two children, Afonso Goncalves Ferreira and Pedro oncalves erreira...No mention of Catarina. ny thoughts? enise D'Antona n a message dated 7/8/2007 9:41:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, roias@rogers.com writes: Thanks, but I cannot find anything attached. JR ---- Original Message ----- rom: "Dan Paiva" <dan_paiva@hotmail.com> o: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> ent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:42 PM ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, I don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the Drummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado manuscripts by Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat short on details, but it may help identify some of the successive generations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a combination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how it goes, at least for our line: 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc Catharina Vaz 2) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line goes way back, see Sapo) 3) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira 4) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes 5) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! Remember back up your data to independent media! JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> To: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Sorry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer crashed and I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to Madeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my info in the notes of the program. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina Escorcio's parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use Ferreira in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you were talking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jroias@rogers.com writes: I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and Sao Miguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes Generation No. 1 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, daughter of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. She married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao Miguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. ------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes n the subject and he body of the message ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ________________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE AOL Email account with 2GB of storage. Plus, share and store photos and experience exclusively recorded live music Sessions from your favourite artists. Find out more at http://info.aol.co.uk/joinnow/?ncid=548. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Denise, I think that SAPO has some confusion...yes! but overall i found it quite reliable  because it is based in a couple of sources that they show on the left corner of the page. about catarina escorcio...i think she is the daughter of John drummond and branca afonso. she married abt 1505 with Pedro teixeira (grandson of tristao vaz teixeira). that info i got from the book familias da gaula, plus SAPO. I think couldbe pretty accurate....what do u think?? Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.56pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i Leandro, ice hearing from you. I have found many inconsistencies in the Nobiliario. With this situation, I question the marriage date of 1563, though the ARM oes show a couple with similar names marry in 1563, I thought that date was a ittle late for the people we are talking about. would like to find out who are actually Catarina Escorcio's parents at his point. The line that John Roias and I tie in to is the branch that elocated to Sao Miguel, the line is getting a little confusing to point us in he ight direction. also find the SAPO web site to have errors or confusing information on it, ave you noticed that as well? enise n a message dated 7/9/2007 12:48:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, regobhte1@aol.com writes: i Denise..... Although the nobiliario from Henrique henriques de noronha is taken as a ood source, lately has been discovered that many of his sources was fabricated" to enhance his family towards nobility. the best way to really ssure if omeone descends from the John Drummond family is to find a relative or ncestor that carries the escorcio or drummond surname, once we know that the nly ay to carry that name is coming from the same family, specially if that ranch comes from areas like santa cruz, gaula or machico. leandro ----Original Message----- rom: Denise1270@aol.com o: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com ent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.33pm ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question John, was looking through Saudades Livro IV this morning and it says Catarina corcia (married to Francisco Afonso das Cortes) was the daughter of Joao ncalves Ferreira, da Serra de Agua and his wife Catarina Afonso. It says ao scends from Belchior Goncalves Escorcio who is one of the sons of Branca onso Drummond and Belchior Goncalves Ferreira. you have access to that book? If so, The chapter they are in starts on ge 125. The info about Catarina Escorcio is on page 127 bottom right orner ragraph. en if you look at Noronha's Nobiliario, he says Belchior Goncalves corcio married Ana Ferreira 9 Jan 1563 in the Se of Funchal. It shows heir n ao aka da Serra da Agua, relocate to Sao Miguel with his wife Catarina onso, but only shows two children, Afonso Goncalves Ferreira and Pedro ncalves rreira...No mention of Catarina. y thoughts? enise D'Antona a message dated 7/8/2007 9:41:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, oias@rogers.com writes: hanks, but I cannot find anything attached. R --- Original Message ----- om: "Dan Paiva" <dan_paiva@hotmail.com> : <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> nt: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:42 PM bject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, I don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the rummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado anuscripts y Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat hort on details, but it may help identify some of the successive enerations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a ombination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how t oes, at least for our line: 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc atharina Vaz ) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line oes ay back, see Sapo) ) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira ) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes ) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! emember back up your data to independent media! JR ---- Original Message ----- rom: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> o: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> ent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question orry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer rashed nd I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to adeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my nfo in the notes of the program. JR ---- Original Message ----- rom: Denise1270@aol.com o: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com ent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina scorcio's arents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou scorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing omething here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use erreira n any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you ere alking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, roias@rogers.com writes: noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed hrough Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the olombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and ao iguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my randao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections rom Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be issing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes eneration No. 1 . FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, aughter f JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. hild of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 . ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 . MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. he arried ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao orge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, tem15, and chapter 14 , item 15 hild of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. ASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of omba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao iguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. ------------------------------- ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ on't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! ttp://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to T-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes the subject and e body of the message ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com th the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of e message _______________________________________________________________________ et a FREE AOL Email account with 2GB of storage. Plus, share and store hotos and experience exclusively recorded live music Sessions from your avourite artists. Find out more at http://info.aol.co.uk/joinnow/?ncid=548. ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes n the subject and he body of the message ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ________________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE AOL Email account with 2GB of storage. Plus, share and store photos and experience exclusively recorded live music Sessions from your favourite artists. Find out more at http://info.aol.co.uk/joinnow/?ncid=548.

Hi Leandro, Nice hearing from you. I have found many inconsistencies in the Nobiliario. With this situation, I question the marriage date of 1563, though the ARM does show a couple with similar names marry in 1563, I thought that date was a little late for the people we are talking about. I would like to find out who are actually Catarina Escorcio's parents at this point. The line that John Roias and I tie in to is the branch that relocated to Sao Miguel, the line is getting a little confusing to point us in the right direction. I also find the SAPO web site to have errors or confusing information on it, have you noticed that as well? Denise In a message dated 7/9/2007 12:48:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gregobhte1@aol.com writes: Hi Denise..... Although the nobiliario from Henrique henriques de noronha is taken as a good source, lately has been discovered that many of his sources was "fabricated" to enhance his family towards nobility. the best way to really assure if someone descends from the John Drummond family is to find a relative or ancestor that carries the escorcio or drummond surname, once we know that the only way to carry that name is coming from the same family, specially if that branch comes from areas like santa cruz, gaula or machico. leandro -----Original Message----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.33pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i John, was looking through Saudades Livro IV this morning and it says Catarina scorcia (married to Francisco Afonso das Cortes) was the daughter of Joao oncalves Ferreira, da Serra de Agua and his wife Catarina Afonso. It says oao escends from Belchior Goncalves Escorcio who is one of the sons of Branca fonso Drummond and Belchior Goncalves Ferreira. o you have access to that book? If so, The chapter they are in starts on age 125. The info about Catarina Escorcio is on page 127 bottom right corner aragraph. hen if you look at Noronha's Nobiliario, he says Belchior Goncalves scorcio married Ana Ferreira 9 Jan 1563 in the Se of Funchal. It shows their on oao aka da Serra da Agua, relocate to Sao Miguel with his wife Catarina fonso, but only shows two children, Afonso Goncalves Ferreira and Pedro oncalves erreira...No mention of Catarina. ny thoughts? enise D'Antona n a message dated 7/8/2007 9:41:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, roias@rogers.com writes: Thanks, but I cannot find anything attached. JR ---- Original Message ----- rom: "Dan Paiva" <dan_paiva@hotmail.com> o: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> ent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:42 PM ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, I don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the Drummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado manuscripts by Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat short on details, but it may help identify some of the successive generations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a combination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how it goes, at least for our line: 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc Catharina Vaz 2) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line goes way back, see Sapo) 3) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira 4) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes 5) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! Remember back up your data to independent media! JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> To: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Sorry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer crashed and I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to Madeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my info in the notes of the program. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina Escorcio's parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use Ferreira in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you were talking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jroias@rogers.com writes: I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and Sao Miguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes Generation No. 1 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, daughter of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. She married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao Miguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. ------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes n the subject and he body of the message ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ________________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE AOL Email account with 2GB of storage. Plus, share and store photos and experience exclusively recorded live music Sessions from your favourite artists. Find out more at http://info.aol.co.uk/joinnow/?ncid=548. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hi Denise..... Although the nobiliario from Henrique henriques de noronha is taken as a good source, lately has been discovered that many of his sources was "fabricated" to enhance his family towards nobility. the best way to really assure if someone descends from the John Drummond family is to find a relative or ancestor that carries the escorcio or drummond surname, once we know that the only way to carry that name is coming from the same family, specially if that branch comes from areas like santa cruz, gaula or machico. leandro -----Original Message----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 5.33pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question i John, was looking through Saudades Livro IV this morning and it says Catarina scorcia (married to Francisco Afonso das Cortes) was the daughter of Joao oncalves Ferreira, da Serra de Agua and his wife Catarina Afonso. It says oao escends from Belchior Goncalves Escorcio who is one of the sons of Branca fonso Drummond and Belchior Goncalves Ferreira. o you have access to that book? If so, The chapter they are in starts on age 125. The info about Catarina Escorcio is on page 127 bottom right corner aragraph. hen if you look at Noronha's Nobiliario, he says Belchior Goncalves scorcio married Ana Ferreira 9 Jan 1563 in the Se of Funchal. It shows their on oao aka da Serra da Agua, relocate to Sao Miguel with his wife Catarina fonso, but only shows two children, Afonso Goncalves Ferreira and Pedro oncalves erreira...No mention of Catarina. ny thoughts? enise D'Antona n a message dated 7/8/2007 9:41:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, roias@rogers.com writes: Thanks, but I cannot find anything attached. JR ---- Original Message ----- rom: "Dan Paiva" <dan_paiva@hotmail.com> o: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> ent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:42 PM ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, I don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the Drummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado manuscripts by Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat short on details, but it may help identify some of the successive generations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a combination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how it goes, at least for our line: 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc Catharina Vaz 2) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line goes way back, see Sapo) 3) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira 4) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes 5) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! Remember back up your data to independent media! JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> To: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Sorry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer crashed and I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to Madeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my info in the notes of the program. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina Escorcio's parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use Ferreira in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you were talking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jroias@rogers.com writes: I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and Sao Miguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes Generation No. 1 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, daughter of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. She married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao Miguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. ------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes n the subject and he body of the message ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ________________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE AOL Email account with 2GB of storage. 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Hi John, I was looking through Saudades Livro IV this morning and it says Catarina Escorcia (married to Francisco Afonso das Cortes) was the daughter of Joao Goncalves Ferreira, da Serra de Agua and his wife Catarina Afonso. It says Joao descends from Belchior Goncalves Escorcio who is one of the sons of Branca Afonso Drummond and Belchior Goncalves Ferreira. Do you have access to that book? If so, The chapter they are in starts on page 125. The info about Catarina Escorcio is on page 127 bottom right corner paragraph. Then if you look at Noronha's Nobiliario, he says Belchior Goncalves Escorcio married Ana Ferreira 9 Jan 1563 in the Se of Funchal. It shows their son Joao aka da Serra da Agua, relocate to Sao Miguel with his wife Catarina Afonso, but only shows two children, Afonso Goncalves Ferreira and Pedro Goncalves Ferreira...No mention of Catarina. Any thoughts? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/8/2007 9:41:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jroias@rogers.com writes: Thanks, but I cannot find anything attached. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Paiva" <dan_paiva@hotmail.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question > Hi John, > > I don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the > Drummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado > manuscripts > by Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat > short on details, but it may help identify some of the successive > generations. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a > combination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how > it > goes, at least for our line: > > 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc > Catharina Vaz > 2) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line > goes > way back, see Sapo) > 3) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira > 4) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes > 5) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao > > Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! > Remember back up your data to independent media! > > JR > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> > To: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question > > > Sorry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer > crashed > and I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. > > I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to > Madeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my > info in the notes of the program. > > JR > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Denise1270@aol.com > To: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question > > > Hi John, > > As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina > Escorcio's > parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou > Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing > something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use > Ferreira > in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you > were > talking about? > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jroias@rogers.com writes: > I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed > through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the > Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and > Sao > Miguel. > > In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my > Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. > > Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections > from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be > missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. > > JR > > Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes > > > Generation No. 1 > > > 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, > daughter > of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. > > > Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: > > 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. > > > > Generation No. 2 > > > 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO > > Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: > > 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. > > > > Generation No. 3 > > > 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. > She > married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao > Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- > (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel > > Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: > > Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, > item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 > > > Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: > > i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. > GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of > Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. > > Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: > > Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao > Miguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. > > ------------------------------- > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! > http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

While searching through the internet, I found a book that was digitized by google from the University of Michigan Library. The book, "The Madeira Islands" by Anthony J. Drexel Biddle was published in 1899. If you are interested, click on below link. http://books.google.com/books?id=kVpXLwbmo1IC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=%22john+drummond%22+madeira&source=web&ots=MrwUYJLGma&sig=6gd5uURs9cBy-zJAgYzZPIluEMA#PPA3,M1 I found it interesting from the perspective of someone in the late 1800's Tom Freitas

Margaret, would she mind if I contacted her too. I have family that sailed back and forth and I'm trying to pin down when, where, and who else went with them and may have stayed in Calif or elsewhere. Ronnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret" <marpg2000@comcast.net> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] ships from Hawaii to San Francisco > Tom: > Contact treeclimbr@att.net > She is a very informed person on what you are searching for about Hawaii > and > the imigrants etc. > > Tell her that Margaret recommended you. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Freitas" <family@railsoft.com> > To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 9:44 AM > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] ships from Hawaii to San Francisco > > >> Does anyone know of a web site that list ships and possible passengers >> that sailed from Hawaii to San Francisco around 1892? >> >> Tom Freitas >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks, but I cannot find anything attached. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Paiva" <dan_paiva@hotmail.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question > Hi John, > > I don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the > Drummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado > manuscripts > by Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat > short on details, but it may help identify some of the successive > generations. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a > combination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how > it > goes, at least for our line: > > 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc > Catharina Vaz > 2) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line > goes > way back, see Sapo) > 3) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira > 4) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes > 5) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao > > Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! > Remember back up your data to independent media! > > JR > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> > To: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question > > > Sorry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer > crashed > and I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. > > I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to > Madeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my > info in the notes of the program. > > JR > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Denise1270@aol.com > To: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question > > > Hi John, > > As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina > Escorcio's > parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou > Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing > something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use > Ferreira > in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you > were > talking about? > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jroias@rogers.com writes: > I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed > through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the > Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and > Sao > Miguel. > > In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my > Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. > > Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections > from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be > missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. > > JR > > Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes > > > Generation No. 1 > > > 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, > daughter > of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. > > > Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: > > 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. > > > > Generation No. 2 > > > 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO > > Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: > > 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. > > > > Generation No. 3 > > > 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. > She > married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao > Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- > (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel > > Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: > > Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, > item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 > > > Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: > > i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. > GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of > Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. > > Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: > > Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao > Miguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. > > ------------------------------- > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! > http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tom: Contact treeclimbr@att.net She is a very informed person on what you are searching for about Hawaii and the imigrants etc. Tell her that Margaret recommended you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Freitas" <family@railsoft.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 9:44 AM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] ships from Hawaii to San Francisco > Does anyone know of a web site that list ships and possible passengers > that sailed from Hawaii to San Francisco around 1892? > > Tom Freitas > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone know of a web site that list ships and possible passengers that sailed from Hawaii to San Francisco around 1892? Tom Freitas

Hi John, I don't how much value this is, but attached is a Descendancy list of the Drummond clan. It was supposedly derived from the Carlos Machado manuscripts by Rev. Joe Viveiros in Dartmouth, MA. Granted it is sketchy and somewhat short on details, but it may help identify some of the successive generations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a combination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how it goes, at least for our line: 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc Catharina Vaz 2) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line goes way back, see Sapo) 3) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira 4) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes 5) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! Remember back up your data to independent media! JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> To: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Sorry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer crashed and I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to Madeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my info in the notes of the program. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina Escorcio's parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use Ferreira in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you were talking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jroias@rogers.com writes: I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and Sao Miguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes Generation No. 1 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, daughter of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND��O is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. She married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao Miguel, A�'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. ------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!� http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2

Hi Tom, BE CAREFUL with the interpretation of everything you read about Jews in Portugal. Most Jews only started using a PORTUGUESE name AFTER the Edict of expulsion in 1497 (ONLY 510 years ago), when they were baptized as New-Christians. The PORTUGUESE family names SILVA, PEREIRA, FERREIRA etc. existed long before 1497 (and the portuguese Ferreira family name has NOTHING to do with Ferrara-Italy). So, when the author writes: «The Pereiras, whose origins can be traced to the original family name of Ibn-Dana» he obviously means ONLY THOSE PEREIRAS he is studying. I also think that not every New-Christian/Jewish PEREIRA have the same original family name. And, of course, none of the descendants of the old portuguese PEREIRA families descend from Ibn-Dana. New-Christians adopted every name there was in Portugal (mainly patronymics like Gonçalves, Fernandes, Nunes, etc., and not specially toponymics like Silva, Pereira, Ferreira). So, «Over ten percent of all those that perished were named Pereira. The only other family to suffer such a great loss was the da Silva Family.» is most probably WRONG. «A major contributing reason for the Spanish expulsion was the frequent and false accusation that Jews killed Christians and drank their blood». WRONG again! The goal of the Catholic Kings of Spain was having an unified country (Fernando and Isabel were King and Queen of several kingdoms they united into a single one: Spain), with a SINGLE RELIGION. REMEMBER they ALSO evicted MOSLIMS! Besides, I've red the original documents of many Inquisition trials, and have never seen such accusations in any trial of New-Christians. They were simply accused of being (hidden) Jews, i.e., having ANOTHER Faith (but the "true" one), and that was all. Portugal had to follow the same policy Spain did because King Manuel wanted to marry to the daughter of Fernando+Isabel, and the Spanish kings put this as a condition to allow the marriage. King Manuel protected (by laws he made) those who wanted to remain in Portugal as New-Christians: they could not be persecuted because of their former religious beliefs; at least, half of the members of the board of some trade unions HAD TO be New-Christians - gold$mith$, for instance! etc.. We know that, among New-Christians, the son of a Nunes and a Gonçalves might call himself something else, like, Fernandes! This way it would be harder for the Inquisition dogs-of-the-Lord (domeni_canes) to track the family (in other words, as there were no Id. Cards, it was almost impossible to track all the members of a certain Pereira or Nunes new-christian family). «Inquisitions under first the Spanish and then the Portuguese starting in the 14th century». WRONG: Inquisition only started in Portugal in the mid-16th century! «Once in Lisbon the crowds were informed that their children were to be given to Catholic families who would raise them...». There is another story saying that all the Jews - those who did not want to be baptized - were to come to Lisbon where boats were to sail them to other countries. Instead, they were forced to baptism. There is no evidence of any of this. The crowds of Jews, suicides and parents killing children, etc... In fact, it's hard to believe that ALL, or even most of the Jews living in Portugal (probably over 100.000), or all those having children under 14 (that would be over half of them) came to Lisbon believing they were going to get in a boat to leave the country! We were in the 15th century!! Boats were not that many and were too small to carry passengers! So, I would say that surely 95 or 98% of those 100.000 had to remain in Portugal. Ok... Maybe many of them (thousands!) left the country in the next 100 years, but... how many MORE were born (AND MINGLED), meanwhile? Jews were in Portugal for centuries, they spoke the language... they just had to adapt a little (clothes, hair cut, etc.) and change for another village where they could hide their roots and their religious traditions. Also... Remember that in the late 1400's and early 1500's there were no Baptism records. Everyone could say he was a baptized old-christian (and not a NEW-CHRISTIAN)! And, believe me, many Jews surely did it. ;-) Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal ---------------------- MENSAGEM ORIGINAL ---------------------- I was reading a book called "Indentured Immigrants, A Jewish family odyssey from Madeira to the Sandwich Islands",( about the Perrira and da Silva family), and did not realize the large connection of Jews and Madeira. The only reason that I was reading this book was because the person that wrote it, had family that sailed on the same ship, Stirlingshire, at the same time as my family. My Great Grandparents were Antonio de Freitas da Silva and Julia Agrela. Julia also used the last name Ascensao, her mothers. According to this book, "Because the letters "p" and "f" are interchangeable in the Hebrew alphabet, a variant of the name Pereira in Latin is Fer(r)eira from the word Ferrarius. That is, a blacksmith, or one who works with iron. The family names of this group can be associated with the Italian city of Ferrara where Jews were living from at least the 13th century to possibly as early as the 11th century. The Pereiras, whose origins can be traced to the original family name of Ibn-Dana or son of Dana. (Ibn is another form of patronymic.) The Ibn-Danas left the Holy Land after the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem around 2,500 years ago. This initial event ultimately led the family to take up residence in Morocco, Span; mainland Portugal; Madeira; the Sandwich Islands and finally California. The Ibn-Dana changed their name to both Pereira as well as Ferreira while residing on the Iberian peninsula. It is well known that both the Perrira and da Silva families lost countless member to the Inquisitions under first the Spanish and then the Portuguese starting in the 14th century. Over ten percent of all those that perished were named Pereira. The only other family to suffer such a great loss was the da Silva Family. A major contributing reason for the Spanish expulsion was the frequent and false accusation that Jews killed Christians and drank their blood. Ultimately, many Jews left Spain in 1492 under an Edict of Expulsion to seek refuge in neighboring Portugal and elsewhere. According to this book, the Jews in Spain as well as Portugal had to become closet Jews because the law at that time forced them to become Christians. If a Jew did not convert to Christianity, then they had to leave Portugal by October 1497, by order of Queen Isabel on December 5, 1496. On Friday, March 19, 1497, the first day of Passover, Jewish parents were ordered to bring their children between the ages of two and fourteen to Lisbon. Once in Lisbon the crowds were informed that their children were to be given to Catholic families who would raise them as good Catholics. Many parents while assembled in Lisbon killed their children and then committed suicide rather then allow them to meet such a fate. Later in the book it states that "Starting in 1540 the first Auto-de-Fe' took place in Lisbon. Because of this, many shiploads of Jews left Lisbon - the only port for embarkation - bound for the Portuguese island of Madeira." There are several pages in the book that explains the journey from Jerusalem to Morocco, Spain and Portugal and then to Madeira. I thought that this might be on interest to those that do not know the above story. The author of the above book is Phil Pasquini and his web site is http://www.mac.com/philpasquini The story of the Stirlingshire is at http://web.mac.com/philpasquini/iWeb/Pasquini%20Site/Stirlingshire.html Tom Freitas ------------- Clix ADSL até 24 Mb: a partir de € 29,90/mês A Internet mais rápida do mercado, agora com chamadas grátis e downloads ilimitados! Saiba mais em http://acesso.clix.pt/

Ok, I think I have the line straightened out. I got the information from a combination of the Portugal List, the Noronha works and Sapo. Here is how it goes, at least for our line: 1) Joao Drummond or Escorcio cc (1) Branca Afonso da Cunha and (2) cc Catharina Vaz 2) Branca Afonso Drummond (1) cc Belchior Goncalves Ferreira (This line goes way back, see Sapo) 3) Belchior Goncalves Escorcio cc Ana Ferreira 4) Catarina Escorcio cc Francsico Afonso das Cortes 5) Ana Escorcio cc Diogo Dias Brandao Thankfully, I was able to save all my information from the old hard drive! Remember back up your data to independent media! JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roias" <jroias@rogers.com> To: <Denise1270@aol.com>; <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Sorry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer crashed and I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to Madeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my info in the notes of the program. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina Escorcio's parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use Ferreira in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you were talking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jroias@rogers.com writes: I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and Sao Miguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes Generation No. 1 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, daughter of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. She married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao Miguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. -------------------------------

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Detective Work! My Ggrandfather was always known to me as Antonio Freitas or de Freitas. On his grave stone it states Antone S. Freitas and on his death certificate it states that his name was Antone Freitas and his fathers name was Antone Freitas. Mothers name was not known. I also knew that his wife was Julia Agrella. However, on one of their daughters birth and baptism papers it showed her last name as Ascensao. The spelling was not correct on most things since they, as most from Madeira, did not know how to read or write. The census records showed that they were married in 1885 and were from Madeira. I then went to the Madeira Archives on-line and looked them out, but could not find them. I then thought that I would simply query on the first name of Julia and the name Antonio with the mark above the o after the t. I must be exact! What came up was Antonio da Silva and Julia d' Agrela. The marriage date was 1885, the age was correct for both and his fathers name was Antonio de Freitas da Silva. It also showed that they had a companion, sister in-law, by the name of Antonia Ascensao. With that I order the passport records and it confirmed that this was in fact my great grandparents. I then looked up all the ships that left Madeira for Hawaii on or after November 14, 1885, the date of the passport. The first ship to leave was the Stirlingshire. I went to http://www.lusaweb.com , a Portuguese web site that has passenger list of various ships. They charge a $25 fee per year. I went to the Stringshire and entered da Silva and found Antonio with Julia and a companion Antonia. That was my confirmation that they were in fact on this ship. There were a few other factors that played in this for confirmation purposes, that the above is basically it. Like I said, Detective Work! Since I found them I have been able to go back a 100 years so far and expect to get back to around the 1500's in Madeira. I never knew that my ancestors were da Silva until I found the above. This was about a month ago. I might also add here, that Jose Fernandes was of great help to me as he is to everyone else. Tom Freitas Ronnie French wrote: >The ship passage was fascinating. How did you find out where to go to get >the information on the ship and it's passage? > >Ronnie > >PS: I have a de Freitas in our family. She was the fourth child, maybe >there's a relation here. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Thomas Freitas" <family@railsoft.com> >To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 10:44 AM >Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Jewish Connection to Madeira and more on names > > > > >>I was reading a book called "Indentured Immigrants, A Jewish family >>odyssey from Madeira to the Sandwich Islands",( about the Perrira and da >>Silva family), and did not realize the large connection of Jews and >>Madeira. The only reason that I was reading this book was because the >>person that wrote it, had family that sailed on the same ship, >>Stirlingshire, at the same time as my family. My Great Grandparents >>were Antonio de Freitas da Silva and Julia Agrela. Julia also used the >>last name Ascensao, her mothers. >> >>According to this book, "Because the letters "p" and "f" are >>interchangeable in the Hebrew alphabet, a variant of the name Pereira in >>Latin is Fer(r)eira from the word Ferrarius. That is, a blacksmith, or >>one who works with iron. The family names of this group can be >>associated with the Italian city of Ferrara where Jews were living from >>at least the 13th century to possibly as early as the 11th century. >> >>The Pereiras, whose origins can be traced to the original family name of >>Ibn-Dana or son of Dana. (Ibn is another form of patronymic.) The >>Ibn-Danas left the Holy Land after the destruction of the First Temple >>in Jerusalem around 2,500 years ago. This initial event ultimately led >>the family to take up residence in Morocco, Span; mainland Portugal; >>Madeira; the Sandwich Islands and finally California. The Ibn-Dana >>changed their name to both Pereira as well as Ferreira while residing on >>the Iberian peninsula. >> >>It is well known that both the Perrira and da Silva families lost >>countless member to the Inquisitions under first the Spanish and then >>the Portuguese starting in the 14th century. Over ten percent of all >>those that perished were named Pereira. The only other family to suffer >>such a great loss was the da Silva Family. >> >>A major contributing reason for the Spanish expulsion was the frequent >>and false accusation that Jews killed Christians and drank their blood. >>Ultimately, many Jews left Spain in 1492 under an Edict of Expulsion to >>seek refuge in neighboring Portugal and elsewhere. >> >>According to this book, the Jews in Spain as well as Portugal had to >>become closet Jews because the law at that time forced them to become >>Christians. If a Jew did not convert to Christianity, then they had to >>leave Portugal by October 1497, by order of Queen Isabel on December 5, >>1496. On Friday, March 19, 1497, the first day of Passover, Jewish >>parents were ordered to bring their children between the ages of two and >>fourteen to Lisbon. Once in Lisbon the crowds were informed that their >>children were to be given to Catholic families who would raise them as >>good Catholics. Many parents while assembled in Lisbon killed their >>children and then committed suicide rather then allow them to meet such >>a fate. >> >>Later in the book it states that "Starting in 1540 the first Auto-de-Fe' >>took place in Lisbon. Because of this, many shiploads of Jews left >>Lisbon - the only port for embarkation - bound for the Portuguese island >>of Madeira." >> >>There are several pages in the book that explains the journey from >>Jerusalem to Morocco, Spain and Portugal and then to Madeira. >> >>I thought that this might be on interest to those that do not know the >>above story. >> >>The author of the above book is Phil Pasquini and his web site is >>http://www.mac.com/philpasquini >>The story of the Stirlingshire is at >>http://web.mac.com/philpasquini/iWeb/Pasquini%20Site/Stirlingshire.html >> >>Tom Freitas >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

The ship passage was fascinating. How did you find out where to go to get the information on the ship and it's passage? Ronnie PS: I have a de Freitas in our family. She was the fourth child, maybe there's a relation here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Freitas" <family@railsoft.com> To: <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Jewish Connection to Madeira and more on names > > I was reading a book called "Indentured Immigrants, A Jewish family > odyssey from Madeira to the Sandwich Islands",( about the Perrira and da > Silva family), and did not realize the large connection of Jews and > Madeira. The only reason that I was reading this book was because the > person that wrote it, had family that sailed on the same ship, > Stirlingshire, at the same time as my family. My Great Grandparents > were Antonio de Freitas da Silva and Julia Agrela. Julia also used the > last name Ascensao, her mothers. > > According to this book, "Because the letters "p" and "f" are > interchangeable in the Hebrew alphabet, a variant of the name Pereira in > Latin is Fer(r)eira from the word Ferrarius. That is, a blacksmith, or > one who works with iron. The family names of this group can be > associated with the Italian city of Ferrara where Jews were living from > at least the 13th century to possibly as early as the 11th century. > > The Pereiras, whose origins can be traced to the original family name of > Ibn-Dana or son of Dana. (Ibn is another form of patronymic.) The > Ibn-Danas left the Holy Land after the destruction of the First Temple > in Jerusalem around 2,500 years ago. This initial event ultimately led > the family to take up residence in Morocco, Span; mainland Portugal; > Madeira; the Sandwich Islands and finally California. The Ibn-Dana > changed their name to both Pereira as well as Ferreira while residing on > the Iberian peninsula. > > It is well known that both the Perrira and da Silva families lost > countless member to the Inquisitions under first the Spanish and then > the Portuguese starting in the 14th century. Over ten percent of all > those that perished were named Pereira. The only other family to suffer > such a great loss was the da Silva Family. > > A major contributing reason for the Spanish expulsion was the frequent > and false accusation that Jews killed Christians and drank their blood. > Ultimately, many Jews left Spain in 1492 under an Edict of Expulsion to > seek refuge in neighboring Portugal and elsewhere. > > According to this book, the Jews in Spain as well as Portugal had to > become closet Jews because the law at that time forced them to become > Christians. If a Jew did not convert to Christianity, then they had to > leave Portugal by October 1497, by order of Queen Isabel on December 5, > 1496. On Friday, March 19, 1497, the first day of Passover, Jewish > parents were ordered to bring their children between the ages of two and > fourteen to Lisbon. Once in Lisbon the crowds were informed that their > children were to be given to Catholic families who would raise them as > good Catholics. Many parents while assembled in Lisbon killed their > children and then committed suicide rather then allow them to meet such > a fate. > > Later in the book it states that "Starting in 1540 the first Auto-de-Fe' > took place in Lisbon. Because of this, many shiploads of Jews left > Lisbon - the only port for embarkation - bound for the Portuguese island > of Madeira." > > There are several pages in the book that explains the journey from > Jerusalem to Morocco, Spain and Portugal and then to Madeira. > > I thought that this might be on interest to those that do not know the > above story. > > The author of the above book is Phil Pasquini and his web site is > http://www.mac.com/philpasquini > The story of the Stirlingshire is at > http://web.mac.com/philpasquini/iWeb/Pasquini%20Site/Stirlingshire.html > > Tom Freitas > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Sorry, I am unable to find my source-notes at this time. My computer crashed and I am trying to find and save as many files as possible. I think I got the info from Noronha, and the connection from Sao Miguel to Madeira, I just can't recall the source, offhand. I should have placed my info in the notes of the program. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise1270@aol.com To: jroias@rogers.com ; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Escorcio question Hi John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina Escorcio's parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use Ferreira in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you were talking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jroias@rogers.com writes: I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and Sao Miguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes Generation No. 1 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, daughter of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. She married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao Miguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com.

I was reading a book called "Indentured Immigrants, A Jewish family odyssey from Madeira to the Sandwich Islands",( about the Perrira and da Silva family), and did not realize the large connection of Jews and Madeira. The only reason that I was reading this book was because the person that wrote it, had family that sailed on the same ship, Stirlingshire, at the same time as my family. My Great Grandparents were Antonio de Freitas da Silva and Julia Agrela. Julia also used the last name Ascensao, her mothers. According to this book, "Because the letters "p" and "f" are interchangeable in the Hebrew alphabet, a variant of the name Pereira in Latin is Fer(r)eira from the word Ferrarius. That is, a blacksmith, or one who works with iron. The family names of this group can be associated with the Italian city of Ferrara where Jews were living from at least the 13th century to possibly as early as the 11th century. The Pereiras, whose origins can be traced to the original family name of Ibn-Dana or son of Dana. (Ibn is another form of patronymic.) The Ibn-Danas left the Holy Land after the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem around 2,500 years ago. This initial event ultimately led the family to take up residence in Morocco, Span; mainland Portugal; Madeira; the Sandwich Islands and finally California. The Ibn-Dana changed their name to both Pereira as well as Ferreira while residing on the Iberian peninsula. It is well known that both the Perrira and da Silva families lost countless member to the Inquisitions under first the Spanish and then the Portuguese starting in the 14th century. Over ten percent of all those that perished were named Pereira. The only other family to suffer such a great loss was the da Silva Family. A major contributing reason for the Spanish expulsion was the frequent and false accusation that Jews killed Christians and drank their blood. Ultimately, many Jews left Spain in 1492 under an Edict of Expulsion to seek refuge in neighboring Portugal and elsewhere. According to this book, the Jews in Spain as well as Portugal had to become closet Jews because the law at that time forced them to become Christians. If a Jew did not convert to Christianity, then they had to leave Portugal by October 1497, by order of Queen Isabel on December 5, 1496. On Friday, March 19, 1497, the first day of Passover, Jewish parents were ordered to bring their children between the ages of two and fourteen to Lisbon. Once in Lisbon the crowds were informed that their children were to be given to Catholic families who would raise them as good Catholics. Many parents while assembled in Lisbon killed their children and then committed suicide rather then allow them to meet such a fate. Later in the book it states that "Starting in 1540 the first Auto-de-Fe' took place in Lisbon. Because of this, many shiploads of Jews left Lisbon - the only port for embarkation - bound for the Portuguese island of Madeira." There are several pages in the book that explains the journey from Jerusalem to Morocco, Spain and Portugal and then to Madeira. I thought that this might be on interest to those that do not know the above story. The author of the above book is Phil Pasquini and his web site is http://www.mac.com/philpasquini The story of the Stirlingshire is at http://web.mac.com/philpasquini/iWeb/Pasquini%20Site/Stirlingshire.html Tom Freitas

Hi John, As you know, this is my line too. The info I have on Catarina Escorcio's parents is incomplete, but I have her father listed as Joao Ferreira ou Escorcio born on Madeira with no mother listed...So I am clearly missing something here. My question to you is; did John Drummond ever use Ferreira in any record, or is this Joao I have mentioned the "missing link" you were talking about? Denise D'Antona In a message dated 7/4/2007 8:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jroias@rogers.com writes: I noticed Paulo's reference to the Azores, and that some people passed through Madeira before settling in the Azores. This was true of the Colombreiro's for certain, who and there are Moura's in Santa Maria and Sao Miguel. In any event it occurred to me that I could try asking about my Brandao - Escocia ancestors from Sao Miguel. Does anyone know if the following is correct:, or of any connections from Madeira to Sao Miguel regarding the Escorcia line? I think I may be missing a generation, or it is simply wrong. JR Descendants of Francisco Afonso das Cortes Generation No. 1 1. FRANCISCO AFONSO DAS1 CORTES He married CATARINA ESCORCIO, daughter of JOAO DRUMMOND OU ESCOSCIO and BRANCA AFONSO. Child of FRANCISCO CORTES and CATARINA ESCORCIO is: 2. i. ANA2 ESCORCIO. Generation No. 2 2. ANA2 ESCORCIO She married DIOGO DIAS BRANDAO Child of ANA ESCORCIO and DIOGO BRAND©ÐO is: 3. i. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO, b. resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. Generation No. 3 3. MONICA DIAS3 BRANDAO was born in resident of Nordeste- Sao Jorge. She married ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO Abt. 1540 in Nordeste- Sao Jorge, son of JOAO AFONSO and ISABEL BRANDAO. He was resident of Nordeste- (Sao Jorge igreja), Sao Miguel Notes for ANTONIO AFONSO CAVALEIRO DE SANTIAGO: Cavaleiro de Santiago, cited by Frutuoso in book four, chapter 36, item15, and chapter 14 , item 15 Child of MONICA BRANDAO and ANTONIO AFONSO is: i. BEATRIZ4 BRANDAO, b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste; m. GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS, Abt. 1575, Nordeste- Sao Jorge; b. residents of Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste. Notes for GASPAR DE TEVE DE MESAS: Gaspar de Teves Mesa was born in Lomba de Sao Pedro, Nordeste, Sao Miguel, A©'ores. He married Beatriz Brandoa. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:00:36 +0100, John Roias <jroias@rogers.com> wrote: > Paulo and Luis, would you mind if I posted your commentaries on names, > abbreviations and patronymics on the Azores List? Many people would find > this very useful and interesting, as we also have a lot of new people. Not at all, please, be my guest. -- " Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas regumque turres." -- Horacio