Leandro, Sure do, Dr. Mello did a great job getting me started, I will send it shortly Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant of the homem family in ribeira brava thank you leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Okay I see the confusion, let me explain Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) I hope that clears up the confusion. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But pat said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Thank you Pat Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIR[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Leandro, Okay I see the confusion, let me explain Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) I hope that clears up the confusion. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But pat said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Thank you Pat Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But pat said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Thank you Pat Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website hey guys, especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ (http://teles.tribalpages.com) and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that way would be easier to follow p how close we are related. let me know what you guys think thank u leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl > 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > Castro Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > typical names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > > are appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/05/09 08:13:00

Leandro, I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Thank you Pat Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat, I am convince that we are in a constant state of confusion with our genealogies......that is what makes it fun :))) Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

pedro afonso and leonor homem In a message dated 12/5/2009 11:09:50 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Who do you have as your Ines Afonso's parents? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 11:09:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) hey Pat... im also descended from this couple thru their daughter Ines Afonso. She is my 12th GGM do u have the ancestors of pedro and leonor? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 6:40:18 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

hey guys, especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ (http://teles.tribalpages.com) and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that way would be easier to follow p how close we are related. let me know what you guys think thank u leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Pat Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel, You did not disturb me at all, I took your comments as helpful to me (learn something new each day :)), most of the names I have are what I have observed thus far to be common to the island. The ones I put in my question are the one offs that I don't have a line for. Now to your questions....:). I assumed that Francisco Goncalves Homem was from Ribeira Brava because that is where his daughter's marriage is recorded. I assume that I need to start looking elsewhere for a brother/sister to go back further. Thank for information on sources, is there a book or a link to something where I can read more on this? Thank you for the information you provided very much appreciated. Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:prt-madeira-bounce[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 9:44 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

hey Pat... im also descended from this couple thru their daughter Ines Afonso. She is my 12th GGM do u have the ancestors of pedro and leonor? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 6:40:18 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Lu, Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical names from these times. Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? Regards, Miguel On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > > All, > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them out > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > appreciated. > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > Lou > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Miguel Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Hello Lu, Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical names from these times. Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? Regards, Miguel On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > > All, > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them out > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > appreciated. > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > Lou > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

José, However bastard lines were quite common, even the Portuguese Royal House, had bastards who became Kings (Like D. João I, the first of the Avis line). In the Case of noble lines, like the Saldanhas,bastards would not have sucxh delicate feelings for the other legitimate sons, and they would not hesitate in using that name. (that was in some sort a redemption from being bastards) - And they were legal Saldanhas, anyway., because there was not at all any discirmination. If your father had such and such a name, the children could and would use it regardless of the mother. As was the case with Pedro Dias Saldanha who used the full and traditional name of the Saldanha's. Just remember that it was an archi.patriarchal society. The ma's line was the line tat counted. The mother's line only counted if she was noble. Anyway what I´m now looking for is from what family was Ana Henriques, his wife (the wife iof Pedro Dias de Saldanha). As Manuel Dias (Saldanha) marriage with Maria de Andrada, descendant of the Noronha, proves, the Saldanhas, even bastards , could afford marriages with descendants of the" Capitão Donatário", which means the highest nobility in Madeira. It was a small Island. Everyone knew its place. These things meant a lot in these days. Status was measured and transmitted in the minutest way. Democracy and concepts (and practice) of social equality would only come 4 centuries later. Even so, even in our days, one cannot say that nowadays it's all utopic and flowery. Other social barriers, others snobbishness have arised. i On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Fernandes, Jose < [email protected]> wrote: > On the Saldanhas...still > The fact is that our Pedro Dias Saldanha came from a bastard line. so they > weren't 'legal" Saldanhas. I am not sure that the other children would > appreciate that. That may explain why they dropped the Saldanha name. > > José > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 10:56 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Souas da Ribeira Grande, (was Ordonhes e Cairos) > > OK. I retrieved the Sousas from Ribeira Grande, > Miguel de Castro Henriques to prt-madeira > show details Jan 22 > > To all who descend from the Burgos, > > Manuel César Furtado, a genealogist who knows a lot about Açores genealogy > and medieval genealogy, kindly sent me this. > > Check the names in bold. > > Remember that Jerónimo de Sousa's, from Ribeira Grande, S.Miguel, Açores, ( > m. Maria de Sá) parents were Simão Martins and Leonor de Sousa. > > It might be possible that Leonor Manuel is the mother of our Leonor de > Sousa. > Cronologically and topologically it's quite fitting. > > > Then Simoa Martins married to Pedro Jorge and owner of a land with "foro" > could be the mother of Simâo Martins, husband of Leonor de Sousa. > > > > > > > CAPÍTULO 132.º > DA DESCENDÊNCIA DE IREZA DE SOUSA > § 1.º > 1 - Ireza de Sousa, natural da Irlanda, no dizer de Frutuoso, e dama da > rainha D. Leonor (Frutuoso Livro IV Cap.º XXIV § I). Casou em Portugal com > um fidalgo, cujo nome Frutuoso não soube, o qual era morador em Souzel, > donde veio para a Ilha de S. Miguel por matar um corregedor, fixando > residência com sua mulher em Vila Franca e depois no Telhal da Lomba da > Ribeira Grande. Ireza de Sousa e seu marido vieram para esta Ilha no tempo > do Capitão Donatário João Rodrigues da Câmara. > Tiveram: > 2 - João de Sousa, que esteve em África no tempo de el-rei D. Manuel, onde > foi armado Cavaleiro (Frutuoso Livro IV Cap.º XXIV § III e V). Casou com > Isabel Alvares, mulher nobre. > Tiveram: > 3 - Baltazar Vaz de Sousa, foi morador na Ribeira Grande, ao Telhal e > morreu > em Porto Seguro, no Brasil (Vide os seus feitos no Cap.º XXIV do Livro IV > das Saudades da Terra, e também no Cap.º LXI do mesmo Livro, onde se vê que > era magarefe). Sua mulher morreu na freguesia da Matriz da Ribeira Grande a > 13.4.1654 com testamento, sendo testamenteiro seu filho João de Sousa. > Casou > com Leonor Manuel. > Tiveram: > 4 - Nuno de Sousa, Capitão de ordenanças na Ribeira Grande, aí morador e em > S. Pedro da Ribeira Seca onde morreu a 11.4.1610 (Frutuoso, Livro IV, Cap.º > XXIV § VIII e Cap.º XLVI § II). De um livro da Misericórdia de Ponta > Delgada > de 1614, consta que os herdeiros de Nuno de Sousa, da Ribeira Grande, devem > há muito tempo à Misericórdia de Ponta Delgada um foro e são elas as > seguintes: Bárbara de Paiva, Isabel Paim, Madalena de Paiva e Heitor > Fernandes, genro. A terra deste foro tinha sido de Simoa Martins, mulher de > Pedro Jorge. Casou a primeira vez com Catarina de Moura, irmã do Padre > Antonio de Moura, de Ponta Delgada, a qual morreu na freguesia Matriz da > Ribeira Grande a 20.4.1560 com testamento em que deixa a terça a suas > filhas > e nomeando o marido testamenteiro. Casou a segunda vez com Francisca de > Paiva . > Teve da primeira mulher: > 5 - Jerônima de Sousa, que casou na Matriz da Ribeira Grande a 22.1.1569 > com > Brás do Rego Rodovalho. > > CAPÍTULO 18.º > DA DESCENDÊNCIA DE GONÇALO DO REGO, O VELHO > § 1.º > 1 - Gonçalo do Rego, o Velho, veio para S. Miguel no tempo do Capitão > Donatário João Rodrigues da Câmara. Era natural do Porto e veio de lá > parece > que já viúvo da primeira mulher e com três filhos dela (Frutuoso, Livro IV, > Cap.º XXII). Casou a segunda vez com Isabel Pires. > Teve do 2.º casamento: > 2 - Manuel do Rego. Casou com Maria Jerônima. > Tiveram: > 3 - Braz do Rego Rodovalho, casou na Matriz da Ribeira Grande, a 22.1.1569, > com Jerônima de Sousa. > Tiveram: > 4 - Gonçalo do Rego de Sousa, que consta do termo de óbito de sua tia > Beatriz de Sousa (falecida em S. Pedro Ribeira Grande a 1.2.1611), de quem > foi herdeiro. Aí se diz ser filho de Jerônima de Sousa. Faleceu na Matriz > de > Ponta Delgada a 23.10.1659. Casou Maria da Cunha Teixeira, falecida na > Matriz de Ponta Delgada a 10.2.1633, filha de Luís Martins e Isabel da > Cunha. > Tiveram: > 5 - Calisto do Rego e Sousa, batizado na Matriz de Ponta Delgada a > 18.10.1627. Casou em S. Pedro de Ponta Delgada, a 10.2.1649, com Maria > Cabral de Melo. > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Fernandes, Jose < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Miguel/Cecce > > Re: burgos/viana etc. > > Children of Maria de Cairos marry into all of these families, i.e. Viana > > de Cairos etc. At least in my family! > > > > José > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:01 AM > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:06 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Jose said: It is somewhat funny that the name Saldanha was dropped. His > > > grandson António Ferreira( my 7th), takes his mother's name. I know the > > > Ferreiras, but it seems odd. > > > > > > Miguel said:I descend from Manuel Dias (Saldanha), his son. You from > > Diogo > > > Dias (Saldanha), his other son. Both married in the same year 1651. > > > > > > Cece says: Looks like both Diogo and Manuel children decided that their > > > mothers names were "better", because neither became Dias Saldanhas. > Diogo > > > Dias son is Antonio Ferreira and Manuel Dias son is Matias Andrade -so > > both > > > took Moms name instead. > > > > > > The point is that both Manuel Dias and Diogo Dias are the sons of Pedro > > Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. So they were really sons of their > mothers > > and fathers, and legitimate Saldanhas. The Dias comes from the g. parent > of > > both Diogo and Manuel - Diogo Dias Saldanha, Ouvidor em Machico m. to D. > > Mara Catanho, dau, of António Vieira, meirinho, and D. Margarida Catanho. > > > > 1.Diogo Saldanha. (Had lands in Santo da Serra,in 149..). > > 1.2. Digo Saldanha. (Build the church in that "freguesia", around 1520) > > ..... > > 1.3. Gui or Diogo Ennes Saldanha m. 1558 Isabel Fernandes (Quite possibly > > direct descendant of the former), they had: > > 1.4. Diogo Dias Saldanha m. D. Maria Catanho, had from Concórdia > Fernandes > > (black?): > > 1.5. Pedro Dias Saldanha m. Ana Henriques,had > > 1.6. Manuel Dias and Diogo Dias (Saldanha) > > > > > > > > Matias takes the name from her mother, indeed. The Andrades in that time > > was > > a "better" name to use. The Andrades were still on their rise, and the > > Saldanhas beggining their descent. I wonder why they did not use the > > Noronha? But once again in that time the Andrade name supplanted the > > Noronha. > > Manuel Abranches de Soveral, the well known medieval genealogist once > told > > me that the Henriques name was then prime choice. (Remember that the > > Noronhas were Henriques de Noronha). Only later the Noronha name - > because > > of the rise of Noronhas to the first rank of nobility . came to be > > foremost. > > > > I know that this may sound a bit far-fetched in your hiper-democratic > > countries. But the name sensitivity in Portugal was enormous. Still > exists, > > but of course with the spread of education, nowadays the academic titles > > count more socially than the historical names. Even só, they still carry > > some weight, but nothing compared with former centuries. > > > > Anyway,in the 17 th century (and not only) for the sake of time economy > > sometimes the priests dropped the last name. In social use it was more > > simple to be known by name and surname. Or even by name and locality cf, > > Tristão da Ilha. João da Ponta. Manuel da Fonte., etc. > > > > > > > > > Jose said: On Diogo Dias marriage the witnesses were Tomé de Burgos e > > > Sousa, > > > Manuel de Viana e Viana de Cairos. Must have been quite an event! > > > > > > Cece says-Tome de Burgos is my ancestor and Manuel de Viana (de Caires) > > is > > > his son in law-married to his daughter Antonia. > > > I don't see any familial relationship to Diogo Dias yet, though it may > be > > > there - do you? > > > > > > > I don't see any either. Maybe they did not have any. We already discussed > > the Burgos, I think. They had a link with the Calaças, And they were most > > probably from Spain. > > > > regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fernandes, Jose > > > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:24 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > You keep up like this and I am going to have to get part of the family > > > will! > > > > > > I have heard of the Duke but I don't know or remember where Praça de > > > Saldanha in Lisbon is. However, may I accept your invitation, and God > > > willing or "Oxalá que tenhamos boa saúde e tempo" and we shall meet for > a > > > celebration. > > > > > > On the Duke you are going to have to work that line for me. > > > It is somewhat funny that the name Saldanha was dropped. His grandson > > > António Ferreira( my 7th), takes his mother's name. I know the > Ferreiras, > > > but it seems odd. > > > On Diogo Dias marriage the witnesses were Tomé de Burgos e Sousa, > Manuel > > de > > > Viana e Viana de Cairos. Must have been quite an event! > > > > > > José, waiting for that manzanillo > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > Castro > > > Henriques > > > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:43 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > > > > > Ok. José- > > > > > > So we have one more couple of ancestors in common! > > > > > > > > > The name is Pedro. > > > I descend from Manuel Dias (Saldanha), his son. You from Diogo Dias > > > (Saldanha), his other son. Both married in the same year 1651. > > > > > > Shall we meet for a coffee and a cup of manzanillo in Praça de Saldanha > > to > > > celebrate? > > > > > > The Duke is still our cousin, after all ; -) > > > > > > Bitório was written according to the Northern (North of Portugal) > accent. > > > They still say baca for vaca, bino for vinho. And Bitório for Vitório > or > > > Vitorino. > > > > > > So he is Vitório or Vitorino Pires. Though the old and "wrong" (wrong > for > > > southerners) Bitório is endearing. > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Fernandes, Jose < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > And... > > > > > > > > On Dias Saldanha ( can't decipher his first name) who married Ana > > > > Henriques, but I can't find that certificate, his son is Diogo Dias > > > > who marries Maria Ferreira in Caniço, 1651, 902, 225V. > > > > > > > > On Filipa Do Quintal, this is how it is spelled in their daughters' > > > > marriage certificate (Ana Pires) how do you spell her husband's name? > > > > Bitorio or is it an old writing for Victorino? > > > > > > > > José > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in > this > > > incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: > > 12/03/09 > > > 07:32:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Though I live in the cradle of communism I am a notoriously non communist, but Jerónimo is universally appreciated. He is truly a humble and kind man. And we can not forgive him his ideology, at least we can forget it. On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Fernandes, Jose < [email protected]> wrote: > Yes I did note that. Is he nice because is from Alentejo or do you just > have to say that because you live in the cradle of communism in Portugal? > Just getting you going... > José > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 11:58 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Souas da Ribeira Grande, (was Ordonhes e Cairos) > > Yes, > > I descend from Jerónimo too. He certainly had some status. (Curiously > Jerónimo de Sousa is precisley the name of the current Communist Party > leader, in Portugal, a member of Parliament, a very well known figure, > though I do not share his views, a nice and popular man.) > > Anyway this link I send is not yet fully confirmed by documents . It's an > hypothesis, a sound one, and chronologically possible. There is also the > fact that these were the Sousas from Ribeira Grande, and apparently there > were no others, and Jerónimo de Sousa was from Ribeira Grande. Then we have > the Jerónima de Sousa and knowing that surnames and names repeat themselves > in the same family, and that people take (even today) the names of the > father or mother, Jerónimo is a sound candidate for that Sousa of Ribeira > Grande, family. > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Fernandes, Jose < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Anyway, this is our Irish link! In part it would explain why Jerónimo > comes > > to Caniço and marries a Sá, a whose daughter marries a Burgos and > > granddaughter marries a Viana de Cairos. And this is just my family! > > > > José > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Yes, I see. You can send it to [email protected] Castro Ferreira is one of the typical names of the Calaças from Porto Santo. Beatriz a classical name in the Teixeiras. The name Góis comes from Beatriz de Góis m. to the archi-famous (horseman and Knight) Lançarote Teixeira, called the flower of Chivalry. Mendoza is the Spanish way, and the original too, BTW, of Mendonça. The ultimate chic however, in Portugal, since the 18 th century is to write Mendoça. (as in the Dukes of Loulé)- But it is possible that a priest just wrote Mendoza. Though I suspect that it is that "ç" that may have mislead you and Luis. Sometimes that funny "ç" looks like a "z". I may be wrong, though. regards, Miguel PS That would be nice to deconstruct Clode's thesis! At least to understand why he came to that conclusion. Anyway, in the title Travassos, he contradicts himself with what he says about the Góis de Mendonça..There we have another version, the Travassos, had "boas ligações" ( ' good links", this is an euphemism to indicate that they married into, at least minor nobility or close to minor nobility, or just rich or even middle class bourgeois. But in any case "boas ligações" don't drive you to the "povo", plain commoners and laborers) On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> wrote: > The marriage certificate of Beatriz de Gois (de Mendoza) and Luis de > Castro Ferreira (parents of Mariana de Gois who married Atanasio > Gaviao Mendes) lists Beatriz parents as: > Manuel Travassos and Isabel de Gois, but clearly states Beatriz name > with the 'de Mendoza'. I will see if I can order the documents for > Manuel and Isabel and see what they hopefully will reveal. > > Both Luis Beal and I looked at the certificate and Manuel Travassos is > what we deciphered, but if you could take a look at the certificate - > you might be able to shed a different light or confirm. Is there an > email I can forward a pdf to? > > Thanks, > Janette > > > On 4-Dec-09, at 7:02 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Janette , > > > > how come Isabe de Góis married to Manuel Travassos connects with > > these Góis > > de Mendonça? > > > > In the title TRAVASSOS, pg 317, we see that > > > > 1. Manuel Rodrigues Travassos, married around 1620 Maria de > > Mendonça. They > > had 6 sons: > > 1.1. First born Manuel Travassos married 1649 Isabel de Góis, dau. of > > Domingos Martins and Catarina Nunes. > > > > On other hand the Góis de Mendonça only appear after the marriage of > > Atanásop Mendes gavião, in 1700, with Mariana de Góis, dau, of Luis de > > Castro Ferreira and Beatriz de Góis. > > > > > > Sp they are other people, your Isabel de Góis have probably nothing > > to do > > with the said Góis de Mendonça. > > > > > > Clode also adds that these Travassos proliferated "abundantly" and > > had good > > connections (boas ligações: meaning they married with good families) > > from > > Porto Santo e Machico. > > > > > > If these particular Góis de Mendonça from Porto Santo did not > > belong to the > > nobility is because they were perhaps descendants of slaves. The > > slaves were > > given the names and surnames of their owners. Otherwise anyone with > > these > > particular names had to be almost per force descendant of the > > nobility. Of > > course there are exceptions....And Clode has to stress, for some > > reason, > > that they did not belong to the nobility, because these names are > > speaking > > evidence that otherwise, without question, they belonged or were > > descended > > from the nobility. > > > > regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 7:35 AM, Janette Chun <janette[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Miguel, > >> > >> According to Clode (and sorry I don't have the title of the book, > >> just > >> a photo copy of page 149 with the title Gois) his descendants were > >> not > >> of nobility. > >> > >> Here's what I have: > >> > >> Gois > >> > >> Os deste apelido procedem de Brites de Gois, filha de Joao do Rego e > >> de Beatriz de Gois e mulher de Lancarote Teixeira, filho do segundo > >> donatario de Machico. Deste casamento houve 13 filhos. > >> O Dr. Alvaro de Azevedo nas sua notas as <Saudades da Terra>, tambem > >> diz que este apelido originariamente deriva de D. Anciao da Estrada, > >> Asturiano, que foi senhor de Gois. > >> > >> No Porto Santo ha uma famiia Gois de Mendonca cujo tronco era Manuel > >> Rocha, casado com Maria Coelho; um filho deste, Atanasio Mendes > >> Gaviao, casou em 1700 com Mariana de Gois, filha de Luiz de Castro > >> Ferreira e de Brites de Gois e daqui aquele nome. Nao pertenceram a > >> nobreza. > >> > >> This may explain why you couldn't find the link. I had reached the > >> said couple Manuel Rocha and Maria Coelho. and could go no further > >> and > >> was puzzled that for several generations everyone leading up to the > >> Atanasio had been de Gois de Mendonca (or some variant) and all of a > >> sudden the names all changed. So Atanasio's son, Antoniol (and my > >> direct ancestor) chose his mother and maternal grandmother's last > >> name. His mother is listed in all the certificates as Mariana de > >> Gois > >> but his grandmother is Beatriz de Gois de Mendoza -which is the first > >> time I've see this spelling in any of my certificates. Now I will > >> wait and see where the documents for Beatriz's parents take me.... > >> > >> I also wonder where Clode got his information from. I have not been > >> able to find a marriage certificate for Atanasio and Mariana, yet he > >> states that they were married in 1700. > >> > >> Thank you again for all your help. > >> > >> Janette > >> > >> On 3-Dec-09, at 4:28 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >> > >>> Hello Janette, > >>> > >>> Ok. I just saw the Travassos, in Clode, FPMPS pg 317. Isabel de > >>> Góis must > >>> be Góis by his mother, Catarina Nunes. My guess. And as the > >>> Teixeiras .from > >>> Lançarote teixeira, carried the name Góis, she must be Góis and > >>> Teixeira. > >>> > >>> (The Teixeiras are another Casta Grande. I bet 90 % of madeirans > >>> nowadys > >>> have Teixeira's blood)- > >>> > >>> It shows as I had predicted (no big deal, Madeira is small, and at > >>> one point > >>> you know intuitively who is who) a Mendonça, the mother of Manuel > >>> Travassos, the wife of Manuel Rodrigues Travassos. > >>> > >>> On other hand ( where my predictions fail) I thought he would link > >>> with the > >>> Travassos Magalhães. But Clode does not confirm that. Still... > >>> > >>> Anyway it's a good find for you. Looking forward for more > >>> developments. > >>> Because it's a promising line. But...let's see, > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Miguel > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira de > >>>> Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but it > >>>> was > >>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this particular > >>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive sent me > >>>> on > >>>> the Gois family. > >>>> > >>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>> haven't > >>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>> > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Well, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You have > >>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>> Geneall has > >>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>> Madeiran > >>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > >>>>> looked for > >>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>> > >>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > >>>>> was > >>>>> " O > >>>>> Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto > >>>>> Santo > >>>>> prison. > >>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>> station. What > >>>>> you, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible job? > >>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- I > >>>>> don't > >>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>>>> friend, > >>>>> such is > >>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>> position as > >>>>> myself." > >>>>> > >>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small in > >>>>> stature, > >>>>> but not in dignity. > >>>>> > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks Miguel. I have a some information on the Calacas and > >>>>>> Ornellas. > >>>>>> Any pointers on other resources for informaton on the Texeiras, > >>>>>> Castros, etc. ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Janette > >>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 7:49 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Bingo! I was sure he was from Porto Santo. He probably connects > >>>>>>> with > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> first Travassos from Porto Santo. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And so with the Teixeiras, Calaças, Castros, Mendonças. > >>>>>>> Vasconcelos > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> Ornelas. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> regards, > >>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected] > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi Miguel, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 1600s - the marriage date is 1649 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Manuel Travassos Isabel de Góis Porto Santo 1649 > >>>>>>>> 991 > >>>>>>>> 26 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks. > >>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 4:47 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> From which year is he? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> The name is not very common. It is very ancient. It is a > >>>>>>>>> toponymic. > >>>>>>>>> And the > >>>>>>>>> Travassos from the XVI th century were considered as nobility. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> regards, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Janette Chun < > [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> With the invaluable help of Luis Beal, I now have an ancestor > >>>>>>>>>> named > >>>>>>>>>> Manuel Travassos. I've never come across this last name > >>>>>>>>>> before - > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> a quick internet search revealed that there are quite a few. > >>>>>>>>>> Does > >>>>>>>>>> anyone know the origins of this name? Is it common in > >>>>>>>>>> Madeira? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 9:40 PM, Janette Chun wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Luis! No not gothic yet....LOL > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I will email the pdf files to the address you provided. > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>>>>>> again. > >>>>>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 10:14 AM, Luis Beal wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> That was me. Just e-mail an attachment to [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>> . > >>>>>>>>>>>> 1600's I hope it isn't gothic cause that I can't read :) > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Luis Beal > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain > >>>>>>>>>>>> perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life > >>>>>>>>>>>> unless > >>>>>>>>>>>> it is woven into the life of our ancestors." > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cicero, Roman orator > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: PRT-MADEIRA <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 9:27:18 AM > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all, > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I've enjoyed the exchange of emails over the last few > >>>>>>>>>>>> weeks. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Great to > >>>>>>>>>>>> see the forum active again. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I recall reading an offer to help read some certificates > >>>>>>>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>>>>>> can't > >>>>>>>>>>>> remember who : ( - old age! I recently received two > >>>>>>>>>>>> certificates > >>>>>>>>>>>> from the 1600s which are a little difficult to decipher - I > >>>>>>>>>>>> think > >>>>>>>>>>>> I've > >>>>>>>>>>>> sort of figured it out, but would welcome a second > >>>>>>>>>>>> opinion as > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm > >>>>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>>> familiar with some of the abbreviations. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Janette Chun > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > >>>>>>>>>>>> subject > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> the body of the message > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > >>>>>>>>>>>> subject > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> the body of the message > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>>>>>>>> without the > >>>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> the body of the message > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>>>>>> without the > >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> the body of the message > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>>>> without the > >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] > >>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > >>>>> the body of the message > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> without the > >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] > >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > >>> the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >