Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had some status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade line. I think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel, > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and yes > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. > > Cheers, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lou, > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his line? > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage not > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, 16 > > Sept > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, 27 > Aug > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao > Vicente, > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June > 1735 > > – > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 Feb > > 1770 > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan > 1815 > > – > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 > July > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra de > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da Camara > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, 9 > > April 1939) > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant > of > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > thank you > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But > pat > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > Thank you > > > > Leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, > > with > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > > genealogy > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... > > Nothing > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Pat, > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and > not > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or > > am i mistaken? > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > > > Thank you > > > > Leandro > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Pat, > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as > > follows > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May > > 22 1560 > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Miguel, > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct > > line ancestors? > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes > is > > your ancestor... > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order > from > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > Pat > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the > Duarte > > name from? > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Lou, > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. > > For us > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > > names > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from > the > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > > Homens > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > > there > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > Homem > > de > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > > because a > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > > from > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > Best regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage > > to > > Maria Lopes? > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo > as > > ascendant. > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Miguel > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > > and > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > mentioned > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte > > on 16 > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter > Maria > > Lopes > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, > fl > > 81) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > Castro > > > Henriques > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > typical > > > names from these times. > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > > Drummond > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > daughter ? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > them > > > out > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > are > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > > Baixo > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi Leandro, > > > Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - it > shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't mind > if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? Some > I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and documents. > > Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to > significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. > > Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was > Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the founding > fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel de > Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). It > seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since it's > medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL specialists who > were these Freitas. > > Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz "probably" > belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. But I > don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they > descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. Fernando. > (I was never able to confirm this title) > > Well, > > Once again congratulations and > > regards, > > > Miguel > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > >> OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] >> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website >> >> hey guys, >> >> especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, >> >> I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ >> (http://teles.tribalpages.com) >> >> and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that way >> would be easier to follow p how close we are related. >> >> let me know what you guys think >> >> thank u >> >> leandro >> >> >> In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Lou, >> >> Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For >> us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected >> names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not >> all >> (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. >> >> So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the >> Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have >> Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we >> know >> there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, >> Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, >> because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three >> types). >> >> In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from >> people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very >> ancient Portuguese family. >> >> >> Well, I hope I was of some help, >> >> Best regards, >> >> Miguel >> >> PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to >> Maria Lopes? >> >> Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as >> ascendant. >> >> Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > Miguel >> > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode >> > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >> > >> > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is >> > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues >> > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >> > >> > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria >> Lopes >> > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl >> > 81) >> > >> > Regards, >> > Lou >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >> > Castro Henriques >> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > >> > Hello Lu, >> > >> > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >> > typical names from these times. >> > >> > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >> > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any >> Drummond >> > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >> > daughter >> ? >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Miguel >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > All, >> > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending >> > > them >> > out >> > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints >> > > are appreciated. >> > > >> > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de >> Baixo >> > > >> > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >> > > >> > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > >> > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >> > > >> > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > >> > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >> > > >> > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >> > > >> > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >> > > >> > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >> > > >> > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >> > > >> > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. >> > > >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/05/09 >> 08:13:00 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Hi Leandro, Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - it shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't mind if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? Some I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and documents. Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the founding fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel de Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). It seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since it's medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL specialists who were these Freitas. Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz "probably" belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. But I don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. Fernando. (I was never able to confirm this title) Well, Once again congratulations and regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website > > hey guys, > > especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, > > I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ > (http://teles.tribalpages.com) > > and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that way > would be easier to follow p how close we are related. > > let me know what you guys think > > thank u > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Lou, > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For > us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not > all > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > ancient Portuguese family. > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > Best regards, > > Miguel > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to > Maria Lopes? > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as > ascendant. > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Miguel > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria > Lopes > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl > > 81) > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > Castro Henriques > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > typical names from these times. > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > Drummond > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > daughter > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > All, > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > > them > > out > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > > > are appreciated. > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > Baixo > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/05/09 > 08:13:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Lou, The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his line? Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? Regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage not > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, 16 > Sept > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, 27 Aug > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao Vicente, > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – > B#556, fl 63) > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June 1735 > – > B#409, fl 24) > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 Feb > 1770 > – B#409, fl 79) > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan 1815 > – > B#411, fl 8) > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 July > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra de > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da Camara > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, 9 > April 1939) > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant of > the homem family in ribeira brava > > thank you > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Leandro, > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But pat > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Leandro, > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Thank you Pat > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > Thank you > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > Leandro, > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, > with > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > genealogy > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... > Nothing > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > Pat > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Pat, > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or > am i mistaken? > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > Thank you > > Leandro > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Pat, > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as > follows > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May > 22 1560 > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana > > Does this answer your questions? > > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Miguel, > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct > line ancestors? > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is > your ancestor... > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > Pat > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte > name from? > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Lou, > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. > For us > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > names > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > Homens > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > there > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem > de > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > because a > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > from > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > ancient Portuguese family. > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > Best regards, > > Miguel > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage > to > Maria Lopes? > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as > ascendant. > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Miguel > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > and > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte > on 16 > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria > Lopes > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl > 81) > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > Castro > > Henriques > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > typical > > names from these times. > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > Drummond > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > daughter ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > All, > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > them > > out > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > > appreciated. > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > Baixo > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

hey miguel, do u have the ancestors of leonor caldeira (other than her parents?)? i also dont have the parents of alvaro gomes cabral unfortunately :( cece is not directly linked with this andre franca, i think. leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:43:42 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: You have to look for baptism certificates. And work the ascendancies. The line of FVs you've just posted is also mine and Cece's too, I believe. Since all the others are relatively well known - Leonor Caldeira, for instance, is the daughter of Josè Caldeira and Maria Lourenço, who founded the Capela do Rosário, and left a "Vínculo") I am interested in Álvaro Gomes Cabral. I don't know from where does his Cabral name comes from. But probably from the old Cabrais. And the Cabrais are an interesting lineage - remember Pedro Álvares Cabral? On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:24 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > hi miguel, > > funny enough i am linked with andre de franca and his wife leonor thru his > dau francisca franca de vasconcelos married with francisco gois de > carvalho. Their dau branca franca de vasconcelos married antonio vieira de > vasconcelos. they had a son francisco gois de carvalho married leonor > caldeira in s > vicente. aparently this is my first ancestor from this family coming from > machico to sao vicente. they had a daughter francisca maria that married > alvaro gomes de cabral. their son francisco gois de carvalho married maria > francisca. Their son Alvaro gomes married maria dias. their children used > other surnames rather than franca, vasconcelos or gois > > the question is...where can i find the link between maria de franca and the > vasconcelos de franca? i know that as i showed above i come from them, but > thru another link. > > any ideas??? > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:10:32 Romance Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > mmmm. When I first saw Antònio's son name I thought it might came from > him. But on second thoughts, no. A Vasconcelos would use Vasconcelos, not > the Mendes. There were loads of Mendes, and it's a patronymic. Not that > many > Vasconcelos - one of the "biggest" name you could have in Madeira at that > time. > > So the Vasconcelos almost for sure comes from the mother (as well as the > França - and that happened a lot, a son adopting both his mother's names, > if > they were better than his father's). > > In that case the França de Vasconcelos - in your case as well as in Lou's > - comes very probably from André de França m. D. Leonor de Vasconcelos. > He > son, of João de França and Inês Pires (Escócia) and he g.son of the first > Great and Illustrious Vasconcelos (one of the four Fidalgos sent by the > King > in answer to João Gonçalves Zarco's request) , Martim Mendes de > Vasconcelos > m. Helena Gonçalves da Cãmara. > > regards, > > Miguel > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > do u think that the husband of dona maria de franca could also be a > > vasconcelos? his name was antonio mendes? > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:32:37 Romance Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Ah, that (their son's name) changes the perspective. Either Amaro > Mendes > > was > > a Mendes de Vasconcelos, or more probably she was a França de > Vasconcelos. > > In which case her ascendancy is known. I'll try perhaps tomorrow or > so, > > to > > work that out. But I'm now rather inclined to see Maria de França as a > > França e Vasconcelos, because of her son's name. > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > i dont have the docs. Just saw once on the microfilms the certificate > of > > > her son's wedding jose franca de vasconcelos with my direct ancestor > > maria > > > telo de meneses in 1728 in sao vicente :( > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:16:47 Romance Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > as she is a "Dona" chances are she is really from the Franças. The > > Franças > > > were on their rise. They became one of the most powerful families in > > > Madeira. Lords of I don't know how many morgadios. I am also > descended > > for > > > them, unfortunately not from the more fortunate trunks who > inherited > > the > > > lands. The system of morgadio had no pity for second, third, and > fourth > > > sons. > > > > > > Who are the witness or "padrinhos" in that document? > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Miguel.... > > > > > > > > im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have antonio > > mendes > > > > married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the > > precise > > > date) > > > > but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help > me > > with > > > > that > > > > please? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > > > > > > > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some > > > Brasões > > > > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you > explored > > his > > > > line? > > > > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > > > > > > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, > > marriage > > > not > > > > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira > > Brava, > > > 16 > > > > > Sept > > > > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira > > Brava, > > > 27 > > > > Aug > > > > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > > > > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) > (Sao > > > > Vicente, > > > > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > > > > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 > Sept > > 1696 > > > – > > > > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > > > > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 > June > > > 1735 > > > > > – > > > > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > > > > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de > Agua, > > 20 > > > Feb > > > > > 1770 > > > > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > > > > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, > 30 > > Jan > > > > 1815 > > > > > – > > > > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > > > > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de > Agua, > > 9 > > > > July > > > > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > > > > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da > Conceicao(9) > > > Serra > > > > de > > > > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > > > > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa > da > > > Camara > > > > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > > > > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts > > > USA, 9 > > > > > April 1939) > > > > > > > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest > (Lowell, > > > > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > > > > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois > > (Lowell, > > > > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also > > > descendant > > > > of > > > > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard > Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > > > > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel > > > Pereira > > > > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor > > > homem. > > > > > > > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao > anes. > > > But > > > > pat > > > > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with > > francisco > > > > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard > > Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I > am a > > > > little > > > > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > > > > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe > Standard > > > Time, > > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > > > > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to > Leonor > > > Homem, > > > > > with > > > > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel > > and > > > Lou. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao > > Homem > > > (de > > > > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this > > thread. > > > > > > > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > > > > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started > my > > > > > genealogy > > > > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was > is > > not > > > > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia > da > > > Costa's > > > > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: > > Pintos... > > > > > Nothing > > > > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 > > US/Canada > > > > Pacific > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter > > called > > > INES > > > > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao > anes > > > and > > > > not > > > > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person > on > > > here? or > > > > > am i mistaken? > > > > > > > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email > > > [email protected] > > > > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho > please? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and > Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his > > baptismal > > > > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, > > list > > > his > > > > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from > there > > is > > > as > > > > > follows > > > > > > > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov > 26 > > 1584 > > > > > > > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira > Brava > > > May > > > > > 22 1560 > > > > > > > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina > > Pestana > > > > > > > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat > > > Corbera > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of > your > > > direct > > > > > line ancestors? > > > > > > > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line > > ancestors, > > > and > > > > if > > > > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother > Fernao > > > Ennes > > > > is > > > > > your ancestor... > > > > > > > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending > > order > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you > referenced > > > below? > > > > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the > couples' > > > names > > > > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you > get > > the > > > > Duarte > > > > > name from? > > > > > > > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a > parish, > > he > > > is > > > > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to > Francisco > > > > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book > > #389,Fl > > > 153) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 > > US/Canada > > > > Pacific > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will > > forever > > > be. > > > > > For us > > > > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say > totally > > > > expected > > > > > names > > > > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, > if > > not > > > all > > > > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by > many > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He > must be > > > from > > > > the > > > > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I > also > > > have > > > > > Homens > > > > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As > we > > > know > > > > > there > > > > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de > > Sousa, > > > > Homem > > > > > de > > > > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple > at > > all, > > > > > because a > > > > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three > > types). > > > > > > > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a > toponymic > > > taken > > > > > from > > > > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) > > are a > > > > very > > > > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of > his > > > marriage > > > > > to > > > > > Maria Lopes? > > > > > > > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has > a > > > Lopo > > > > as > > > > > ascendant. > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in > > learn > > > > mode > > > > > and > > > > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a > parish, > > he > > > is > > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > Rodrigues > > > Duarte > > > > > on 16 > > > > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their > > daughter > > > > Maria > > > > > Lopes > > > > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol > (book > > > #454, > > > > fl > > > > > 81) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > Miguel > > > de > > > > > Castro > > > > > > Henriques > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones > - I > > mean > > > > > typical > > > > > > names from these times. > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a > Drummond. > > > Any > > > > > Drummond > > > > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his > son > > or > > > > > daughter ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I > am > > > sending > > > > > them > > > > > > out > > > > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any > help > > or > > > hints > > > > are > > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, > dwelling: > > > Lugar > > > > de > > > > > Baixo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior > to > > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior > to > > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 > 1573 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is > > > > welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > without the > > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

also i have another question miguel...is this andre de franca grandson of martim mendes de vasconcelos thru his mother leonor de vasconcelos? thank you Leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:10:32 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: mmmm. When I first saw Antònio's son name I thought it might came from him. But on second thoughts, no. A Vasconcelos would use Vasconcelos, not the Mendes. There were loads of Mendes, and it's a patronymic. Not that many Vasconcelos - one of the "biggest" name you could have in Madeira at that time. So the Vasconcelos almost for sure comes from the mother (as well as the França - and that happened a lot, a son adopting both his mother's names, if they were better than his father's). In that case the França de Vasconcelos - in your case as well as in Lou's - comes very probably from André de França m. D. Leonor de Vasconcelos. He son, of João de França and Inês Pires (Escócia) and he g.son of the first Great and Illustrious Vasconcelos (one of the four Fidalgos sent by the King in answer to João Gonçalves Zarco's request) , Martim Mendes de Vasconcelos m. Helena Gonçalves da Cãmara. regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > do u think that the husband of dona maria de franca could also be a > vasconcelos? his name was antonio mendes? > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:32:37 Romance Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Ah, that (their son's name) changes the perspective. Either Amaro Mendes > was > a Mendes de Vasconcelos, or more probably she was a França de Vasconcelos. > In which case her ascendancy is known. I'll try perhaps tomorrow or so, > to > work that out. But I'm now rather inclined to see Maria de França as a > França e Vasconcelos, because of her son's name. > > > Miguel > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Miguel, > > > > i dont have the docs. Just saw once on the microfilms the certificate of > > her son's wedding jose franca de vasconcelos with my direct ancestor > maria > > telo de meneses in 1728 in sao vicente :( > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:16:47 Romance Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > > > as she is a "Dona" chances are she is really from the Franças. The > Franças > > were on their rise. They became one of the most powerful families in > > Madeira. Lords of I don't know how many morgadios. I am also descended > for > > them, unfortunately not from the more fortunate trunks who inherited > the > > lands. The system of morgadio had no pity for second, third, and fourth > > sons. > > > > Who are the witness or "padrinhos" in that document? > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Miguel.... > > > > > > im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have antonio > mendes > > > married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the > precise > > date) > > > but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help me > with > > > that > > > please? > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > > > > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some > > Brasões > > > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored > his > > > line? > > > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > > > > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, > marriage > > not > > > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira > Brava, > > 16 > > > > Sept > > > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira > Brava, > > 27 > > > Aug > > > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao > > > Vicente, > > > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept > 1696 > > – > > > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June > > 1735 > > > > – > > > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, > 20 > > Feb > > > > 1770 > > > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 > Jan > > > 1815 > > > > – > > > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, > 9 > > > July > > > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) > > Serra > > > de > > > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da > > Camara > > > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts > > USA, 9 > > > > April 1939) > > > > > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > > > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois > (Lowell, > > > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also > > descendant > > > of > > > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel > > Pereira > > > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor > > homem. > > > > > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. > > But > > > pat > > > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with > francisco > > > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard > Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a > > > little > > > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard > > Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor > > Homem, > > > > with > > > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel > and > > Lou. > > > > > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao > Homem > > (de > > > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this > thread. > > > > > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > > > > genealogy > > > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is > not > > > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da > > Costa's > > > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: > Pintos... > > > > Nothing > > > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 > US/Canada > > > Pacific > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter > called > > INES > > > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes > > and > > > not > > > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on > > here? or > > > > am i mistaken? > > > > > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email > > [email protected] > > > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his > baptismal > > > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, > list > > his > > > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there > is > > as > > > > follows > > > > > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 > 1584 > > > > > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava > > May > > > > 22 1560 > > > > > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina > Pestana > > > > > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat > > Corbera > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your > > direct > > > > line ancestors? > > > > > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line > ancestors, > > and > > > if > > > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao > > Ennes > > > is > > > > your ancestor... > > > > > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending > order > > > from > > > > > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced > > below? > > > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' > > names > > > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get > the > > > Duarte > > > > name from? > > > > > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, > he > > is > > > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > > > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book > #389,Fl > > 153) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > > > <[email protected]> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 > US/Canada > > > Pacific > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will > forever > > be. > > > > For us > > > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally > > > expected > > > > names > > > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if > not > > all > > > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many > > people. > > > > > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be > > from > > > the > > > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also > > have > > > > Homens > > > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we > > know > > > > there > > > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de > Sousa, > > > Homem > > > > de > > > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at > all, > > > > because a > > > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three > types). > > > > > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic > > taken > > > > from > > > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) > are a > > > very > > > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his > > marriage > > > > to > > > > Maria Lopes? > > > > > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a > > Lopo > > > as > > > > ascendant. > > > > > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III < > > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in > learn > > > mode > > > > and > > > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, > he > > is > > > > > mentioned > > > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > > Duarte > > > > on 16 > > > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their > daughter > > > Maria > > > > Lopes > > > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book > > #454, > > > fl > > > > 81) > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Miguel > > de > > > > Castro > > > > > Henriques > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I > mean > > > > typical > > > > > names from these times. > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. > > Any > > > > Drummond > > > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son > or > > > > daughter ? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am > > sending > > > > them > > > > > out > > > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help > or > > hints > > > are > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: > > Lugar > > > de > > > > Baixo > > > > > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is > > > welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

hi miguel, funny enough i am linked with andre de franca and his wife leonor thru his dau francisca franca de vasconcelos married with francisco gois de carvalho. Their dau branca franca de vasconcelos married antonio vieira de vasconcelos. they had a son francisco gois de carvalho married leonor caldeira in s vicente. aparently this is my first ancestor from this family coming from machico to sao vicente. they had a daughter francisca maria that married alvaro gomes de cabral. their son francisco gois de carvalho married maria francisca. Their son Alvaro gomes married maria dias. their children used other surnames rather than franca, vasconcelos or gois the question is...where can i find the link between maria de franca and the vasconcelos de franca? i know that as i showed above i come from them, but thru another link. any ideas??? In a message dated 06/12/2009 20:10:32 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: mmmm. When I first saw Antònio's son name I thought it might came from him. But on second thoughts, no. A Vasconcelos would use Vasconcelos, not the Mendes. There were loads of Mendes, and it's a patronymic. Not that many Vasconcelos - one of the "biggest" name you could have in Madeira at that time. So the Vasconcelos almost for sure comes from the mother (as well as the França - and that happened a lot, a son adopting both his mother's names, if they were better than his father's). In that case the França de Vasconcelos - in your case as well as in Lou's - comes very probably from André de França m. D. Leonor de Vasconcelos. He son, of João de França and Inês Pires (Escócia) and he g.son of the first Great and Illustrious Vasconcelos (one of the four Fidalgos sent by the King in answer to João Gonçalves Zarco's request) , Martim Mendes de Vasconcelos m. Helena Gonçalves da Cãmara. regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > do u think that the husband of dona maria de franca could also be a > vasconcelos? his name was antonio mendes? > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:32:37 Romance Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Ah, that (their son's name) changes the perspective. Either Amaro Mendes > was > a Mendes de Vasconcelos, or more probably she was a França de Vasconcelos. > In which case her ascendancy is known. I'll try perhaps tomorrow or so, > to > work that out. But I'm now rather inclined to see Maria de França as a > França e Vasconcelos, because of her son's name. > > > Miguel > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Miguel, > > > > i dont have the docs. Just saw once on the microfilms the certificate of > > her son's wedding jose franca de vasconcelos with my direct ancestor > maria > > telo de meneses in 1728 in sao vicente :( > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:16:47 Romance Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > > > as she is a "Dona" chances are she is really from the Franças. The > Franças > > were on their rise. They became one of the most powerful families in > > Madeira. Lords of I don't know how many morgadios. I am also descended > for > > them, unfortunately not from the more fortunate trunks who inherited > the > > lands. The system of morgadio had no pity for second, third, and fourth > > sons. > > > > Who are the witness or "padrinhos" in that document? > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Miguel.... > > > > > > im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have antonio > mendes > > > married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the > precise > > date) > > > but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help me > with > > > that > > > please? > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > > > > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some > > Brasões > > > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored > his > > > line? > > > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > > > > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, > marriage > > not > > > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira > Brava, > > 16 > > > > Sept > > > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira > Brava, > > 27 > > > Aug > > > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao > > > Vicente, > > > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept > 1696 > > – > > > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June > > 1735 > > > > – > > > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, > 20 > > Feb > > > > 1770 > > > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 > Jan > > > 1815 > > > > – > > > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, > 9 > > > July > > > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) > > Serra > > > de > > > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da > > Camara > > > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts > > USA, 9 > > > > April 1939) > > > > > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > > > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois > (Lowell, > > > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also > > descendant > > > of > > > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel > > Pereira > > > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor > > homem. > > > > > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. > > But > > > pat > > > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with > francisco > > > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard > Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a > > > little > > > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > > [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard > > Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor > > Homem, > > > > with > > > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel > and > > Lou. > > > > > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao > Homem > > (de > > > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this > thread. > > > > > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > > > > genealogy > > > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is > not > > > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da > > Costa's > > > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: > Pintos... > > > > Nothing > > > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 > US/Canada > > > Pacific > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter > called > > INES > > > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes > > and > > > not > > > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on > > here? or > > > > am i mistaken? > > > > > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email > > [email protected] > > > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his > baptismal > > > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, > list > > his > > > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there > is > > as > > > > follows > > > > > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 > 1584 > > > > > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava > > May > > > > 22 1560 > > > > > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina > Pestana > > > > > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat > > Corbera > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your > > direct > > > > line ancestors? > > > > > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line > ancestors, > > and > > > if > > > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao > > Ennes > > > is > > > > your ancestor... > > > > > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending > order > > > from > > > > > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced > > below? > > > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' > > names > > > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get > the > > > Duarte > > > > name from? > > > > > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, > he > > is > > > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > > > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book > #389,Fl > > 153) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > > > <[email protected]> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 > US/Canada > > > Pacific > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will > forever > > be. > > > > For us > > > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally > > > expected > > > > names > > > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if > not > > all > > > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many > > people. > > > > > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be > > from > > > the > > > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also > > have > > > > Homens > > > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we > > know > > > > there > > > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de > Sousa, > > > Homem > > > > de > > > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at > all, > > > > because a > > > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three > types). > > > > > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic > > taken > > > > from > > > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) > are a > > > very > > > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his > > marriage > > > > to > > > > Maria Lopes? > > > > > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a > > Lopo > > > as > > > > ascendant. > > > > > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III < > > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in > learn > > > mode > > > > and > > > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, > he > > is > > > > > mentioned > > > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > > Duarte > > > > on 16 > > > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their > daughter > > > Maria > > > > Lopes > > > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book > > #454, > > > fl > > > > 81) > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Miguel > > de > > > > Castro > > > > > Henriques > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I > mean > > > > typical > > > > > names from these times. > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. > > Any > > > > Drummond > > > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son > or > > > > daughter ? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am > > sending > > > > them > > > > > out > > > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help > or > > hints > > > are > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: > > Lugar > > > de > > > > Baixo > > > > > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to > > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is > > > welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject > > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEI[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

is he from sao vicente? i would really appreciate if you could help me with this miguel. thank you leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:33:34 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: It can be the same line of the 19 th century madeiran famous genealogist Julião de Franca e Vasconcelos- On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Ah, that (their son's name) changes the perspective. Either Amaro Mendes > was a Mendes de Vasconcelos, or more probably she was a França de > Vasconcelos. In which case her ascendancy is known. I'll try perhaps > tomorrow or so, to work that out. But I'm now rather inclined to see Maria > de França as a França e Vasconcelos, because of her son's name. > > > Miguel > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Miguel, >> >> i dont have the docs. Just saw once on the microfilms the certificate of >> her son's wedding jose franca de vasconcelos with my direct ancestor maria >> telo de meneses in 1728 in sao vicente :( >> >> leandro >> >> >> In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:16:47 Romance Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Leandro, >> >> as she is a "Dona" chances are she is really from the Franças. The >> Franças >> were on their rise. They became one of the most powerful families in >> Madeira. Lords of I don't know how many morgadios. I am also descended >> for >> them, unfortunately not from the more fortunate trunks who inherited the >> lands. The system of morgadio had no pity for second, third, and fourth >> sons. >> >> Who are the witness or "padrinhos" in that document? >> >> Miguel >> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Miguel.... >> > >> > im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have antonio mendes >> > married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the precise >> date) >> > but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help me >> with >> > that >> > please? >> > >> > Thank you >> > >> > Leandro >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, >> > [email protected] writes: >> > >> > Hello Lou, >> > >> > >> > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some >> Brasões >> > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his >> > line? >> > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. >> > >> > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Miguel >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, >> marriage >> not >> > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) >> > > >> > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, >> 16 >> > > Sept >> > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) >> > > >> > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, >> 27 >> > Aug >> > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) >> > > >> > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao >> > Vicente, >> > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) >> > > >> > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 >> – >> > > B#556, fl 63) >> > > >> > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June >> 1735 >> > > – >> > > B#409, fl 24) >> > > >> > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 >> Feb >> > > 1770 >> > > – B#409, fl 79) >> > > >> > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 >> Jan >> > 1815 >> > > – >> > > B#411, fl 8) >> > > >> > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, >> 9 >> > July >> > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) >> > > >> > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) >> Serra >> > de >> > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) >> > > >> > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da >> Camara >> > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) >> > > >> > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts >> USA, 9 >> > > April 1939) >> > > >> > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, >> > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) >> > > >> > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, >> > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also >> descendant >> > of >> > > the homem family in ribeira brava >> > > >> > > thank you >> > > >> > > leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > Leandro, >> > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain >> > > >> > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel >> Pereira >> > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) >> > > >> > > I hope that clears up the confusion. >> > > >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor >> homem. >> > > >> > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. >> But >> > pat >> > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco >> > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) >> > > >> > > leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard >> Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > Leandro, >> > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a >> > little >> > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. >> > > >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Thank you Pat >> > > >> > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? >> > > >> > > Thank you >> > > >> > > Leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard >> Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > >> > > Leandro, >> > > >> > > Not sure if this is the same "person." >> > > >> > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor >> Homem, >> > > with >> > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and >> Lou. >> > > >> > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem >> (de >> > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. >> > > >> > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this >> thread. >> > > >> > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... >> > > >> > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my >> > > genealogy >> > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is >> not >> > > now...Frustrating to say the least. >> > > >> > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da >> Costa's >> > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: >> Pintos... >> > > Nothing >> > > consent but the state of change...;-))). >> > > >> > > Pat >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >> > Pacific >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Pat, >> > > >> > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called >> INES >> > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes >> and >> > not >> > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on >> here? or >> > > am i mistaken? >> > > >> > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email >> [email protected] >> > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? >> > > >> > > Thank you >> > > >> > > Leandro >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Pat, >> > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal >> > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list >> his >> > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is >> as >> > > follows >> > > >> > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 >> 1584 >> > > >> > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava >> May >> > > 22 1560 >> > > >> > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina >> Pestana >> > > >> > > Does this answer your questions? >> > > >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > Lou >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat >> Corbera >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) >> > > >> > > Miguel, >> > > >> > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your >> direct >> > > line ancestors? >> > > >> > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, >> and >> > if >> > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao >> Ennes >> > is >> > > your ancestor... >> > > >> > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending >> order >> > from >> > > >> > > Fernao Ennes to you... >> > > >> > > >> > > Pat >> > > >> > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced >> below? >> > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' >> names >> > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the >> > Duarte >> > > name from? >> > > >> > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >> is >> > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >> > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl >> 153) >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" >> > <[email protected]> >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >> > Pacific >> > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > >> > > Lou, >> > > >> > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever >> be. >> > > For us >> > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >> > expected >> > > names >> > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if >> not >> all >> > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many >> people. >> > > >> > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be >> from >> > the >> > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also >> have >> > > Homens >> > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we >> know >> > > there >> > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de >> Sousa, >> > Homem >> > > de >> > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, >> > > because a >> > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). >> > > >> > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic >> taken >> > > from >> > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a >> > very >> > > ancient Portuguese family. >> > > >> > > >> > > Well, I hope I was of some help, >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > >> > > Miguel >> > > >> > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his >> marriage >> > > to >> > > Maria Lopes? >> > > >> > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a >> Lopo >> > as >> > > ascendant. >> > > >> > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III < >> [email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn >> > mode >> > > and >> > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >> is >> > > > mentioned >> > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues >> Duarte >> > > on 16 >> > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >> > > > >> > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >> > Maria >> > > Lopes >> > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book >> #454, >> > fl >> > > 81) >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > Lou >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > From: [email protected] >> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel >> de >> > > Castro >> > > > Henriques >> > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >> > > > To: [email protected] >> > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > > >> > > > Hello Lu, >> > > > >> > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I >> mean >> > > typical >> > > > names from these times. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >> > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. >> Any >> > > Drummond >> > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >> > > daughter ? >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III >> > <[email protected]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > All, >> > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am >> sending >> > > them >> > > > out >> > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or >> hints >> > are >> > > > > appreciated. >> > > > > >> > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: >> Lugar >> > de >> > > Baixo >> > > > > >> > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to >> 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to >> 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >> > > > > >> > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >> > > > > >> > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >> > > > > >> > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >> > > > > >> > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >> > > > > >> > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is >> > welcomed. >> > > > > >> > > > > Lou >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > > [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> > > without the >> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > the >> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > the >> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject >> > > and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject >> > and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

do u think that the husband of dona maria de franca could also be a vasconcelos? his name was antonio mendes? In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:32:37 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Ah, that (their son's name) changes the perspective. Either Amaro Mendes was a Mendes de Vasconcelos, or more probably she was a França de Vasconcelos. In which case her ascendancy is known. I'll try perhaps tomorrow or so, to work that out. But I'm now rather inclined to see Maria de França as a França e Vasconcelos, because of her son's name. Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel, > > i dont have the docs. Just saw once on the microfilms the certificate of > her son's wedding jose franca de vasconcelos with my direct ancestor maria > telo de meneses in 1728 in sao vicente :( > > leandro > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:16:47 Romance Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Leandro, > > as she is a "Dona" chances are she is really from the Franças. The Franças > were on their rise. They became one of the most powerful families in > Madeira. Lords of I don't know how many morgadios. I am also descended for > them, unfortunately not from the more fortunate trunks who inherited the > lands. The system of morgadio had no pity for second, third, and fourth > sons. > > Who are the witness or "padrinhos" in that document? > > Miguel > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Miguel.... > > > > im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have antonio mendes > > married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the precise > date) > > but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help me with > > that > > please? > > > > Thank you > > > > Leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some > Brasões > > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his > > line? > > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage > not > > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, > 16 > > > Sept > > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, > 27 > > Aug > > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao > > Vicente, > > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 > – > > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June > 1735 > > > – > > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 > Feb > > > 1770 > > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan > > 1815 > > > – > > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 > > July > > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) > Serra > > de > > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da > Camara > > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts > USA, 9 > > > April 1939) > > > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, > > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also > descendant > > of > > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel > Pereira > > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor > homem. > > > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. > But > > pat > > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco > > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a > > little > > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard > Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor > Homem, > > > with > > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and > Lou. > > > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem > (de > > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. > > > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > > > genealogy > > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not > > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da > Costa's > > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... > > > Nothing > > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called > INES > > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes > and > > not > > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on > here? or > > > am i mistaken? > > > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email > [email protected] > > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > Leandro > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > Pat, > > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal > > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list > his > > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is > as > > > follows > > > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 > > > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava > May > > > 22 1560 > > > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana > > > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat > Corbera > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your > direct > > > line ancestors? > > > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, > and > > if > > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao > Ennes > > is > > > your ancestor... > > > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order > > from > > > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced > below? > > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' > names > > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the > > Duarte > > > name from? > > > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he > is > > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl > 153) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > > <[email protected]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever > be. > > > For us > > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally > > expected > > > names > > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not > all > > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many > people. > > > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be > from > > the > > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also > have > > > Homens > > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we > know > > > there > > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > > Homem > > > de > > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > > > because a > > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic > taken > > > from > > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a > > very > > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his > marriage > > > to > > > Maria Lopes? > > > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a > Lopo > > as > > > ascendant. > > > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III < > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn > > mode > > > and > > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he > is > > > > mentioned > > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > Duarte > > > on 16 > > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter > > Maria > > > Lopes > > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book > #454, > > fl > > > 81) > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel > de > > > Castro > > > > Henriques > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > > typical > > > > names from these times. > > > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. > Any > > > Drummond > > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > > daughter ? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III > > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am > sending > > > them > > > > out > > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or > hints > > are > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: > Lugar > > de > > > Baixo > > > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to > 1568 > > > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is > > welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject > > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel, i dont have the docs. Just saw once on the microfilms the certificate of her son's wedding jose franca de vasconcelos with my direct ancestor maria telo de meneses in 1728 in sao vicente :( leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:16:47 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, as she is a "Dona" chances are she is really from the Franças. The Franças were on their rise. They became one of the most powerful families in Madeira. Lords of I don't know how many morgadios. I am also descended for them, unfortunately not from the more fortunate trunks who inherited the lands. The system of morgadio had no pity for second, third, and fourth sons. Who are the witness or "padrinhos" in that document? Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel.... > > im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have antonio mendes > married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the precise date) > but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help me with > that > please? > > Thank you > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hello Lou, > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his > line? > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage not > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, 16 > > Sept > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, 27 > Aug > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao > Vicente, > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June 1735 > > – > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 Feb > > 1770 > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan > 1815 > > – > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 > July > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra > de > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da Camara > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, 9 > > April 1939) > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant > of > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > thank you > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But > pat > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a > little > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > Thank you > > > > Leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, > > with > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > > genealogy > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... > > Nothing > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Pat, > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and > not > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or > > am i mistaken? > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > > > Thank you > > > > Leandro > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Pat, > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as > > follows > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May > > 22 1560 > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Miguel, > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct > > line ancestors? > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and > if > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes > is > > your ancestor... > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order > from > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > Pat > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the > Duarte > > name from? > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Lou, > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. > > For us > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally > expected > > names > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from > the > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > > Homens > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > > there > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > Homem > > de > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > > because a > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > > from > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a > very > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > Best regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage > > to > > Maria Lopes? > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo > as > > ascendant. > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Miguel > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn > mode > > and > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > mentioned > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte > > on 16 > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter > Maria > > Lopes > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, > fl > > 81) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > Castro > > > Henriques > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > typical > > > names from these times. > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > > Drummond > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > daughter ? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III > <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > them > > > out > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > are > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar > de > > Baixo > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is > welcomed. > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel... where can i explore the Franca family in Sao Vicente. Did u get my last post about antonio mendes and Maria de franca? Thank u Leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 18:11:43 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Sebastiana appears as "Dona" Sebastiana, in the ARM - it shows she had some status as well as her husband. Try to explore the França de Andrade line. I think it's your high road and link to medieval times..Bon voyage! regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel, > Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and yes > Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. > > Cheers, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lou, > > > The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões > Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his line? > Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. > > In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > > > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage not > > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, 16 > > Sept > > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, 27 > Aug > > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao > Vicente, > > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – > > B#556, fl 63) > > > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June > 1735 > > – > > B#409, fl 24) > > > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 Feb > > 1770 > > – B#409, fl 79) > > > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan > 1815 > > – > > B#411, fl 8) > > > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 > July > > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra de > > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da Camara > > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, 9 > > April 1939) > > > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, > > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant > of > > the homem family in ribeira brava > > > > thank you > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira > > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. > > > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But > pat > > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco > > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > > > leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Leandro, > > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little > > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Thank you Pat > > > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > > > Thank you > > > > Leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Leandro, > > > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, > > with > > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. > > > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de > > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. > > > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > > genealogy > > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not > > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's > > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... > > Nothing > > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Pat, > > > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES > > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and > not > > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or > > am i mistaken? > > > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the > > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > > > Thank you > > > > Leandro > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Pat, > > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal > > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his > > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as > > follows > > > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 > > > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May > > 22 1560 > > > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana > > > > Does this answer your questions? > > > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > > > Miguel, > > > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct > > line ancestors? > > > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if > > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes > is > > your ancestor... > > > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order > from > > > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > > > > Pat > > > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? > > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names > > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the > Duarte > > name from? > > > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Lou, > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. > > For us > > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > > names > > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from > the > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > > Homens > > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > > there > > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > Homem > > de > > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > > because a > > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > > from > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > Best regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage > > to > > Maria Lopes? > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo > as > > ascendant. > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Miguel > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > > and > > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > > mentioned > > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte > > on 16 > > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter > Maria > > Lopes > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, > fl > > 81) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lou > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > Castro > > > Henriques > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > typical > > > names from these times. > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > > Drummond > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > daughter ? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III < > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > them > > > out > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > are > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > > Baixo > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel, Hope all is well with you. No I have not explored that line yet and yes Sebastiana is the daughter of Manuel and Catarina #4. Cheers, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Hello Lou, The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his line? Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? Regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage not > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, 16 > Sept > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, 27 Aug > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao Vicente, > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – > B#556, fl 63) > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June 1735 > – > B#409, fl 24) > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 Feb > 1770 > – B#409, fl 79) > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan 1815 > – > B#411, fl 8) > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 July > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra de > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da Camara > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, 9 > April 1939) > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant of > the homem family in ribeira brava > > thank you > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Leandro, > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But pat > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Leandro, > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Thank you Pat > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > Thank you > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > Leandro, > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, > with > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > genealogy > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... > Nothing > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > Pat > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Pat, > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or > am i mistaken? > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > Thank you > > Leandro > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Pat, > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as > follows > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May > 22 1560 > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana > > Does this answer your questions? > > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Miguel, > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct > line ancestors? > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is > your ancestor... > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > Pat > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte > name from? > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Lou, > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. > For us > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > names > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > Homens > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > there > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem > de > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > because a > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > from > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > ancient Portuguese family. > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > Best regards, > > Miguel > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage > to > Maria Lopes? > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as > ascendant. > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Miguel > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > and > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte > on 16 > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria > Lopes > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl > 81) > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > Castro > > Henriques > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > typical > > names from these times. > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > Drummond > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > daughter ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > All, > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > them > > out > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > > appreciated. > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > Baixo > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

hey Miguel, you are MORE THAN WELCOME to make suggestions and add new info. Actually, not only you but all our cousins from the forum, which im so proud to be related to. These cyber space is quite nice actually, it feels like a big family. Thank you for your compliments and im looking forward to hear from you all. Leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 17:30:40 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Leandro, Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - it shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't mind if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? Some I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and documents. Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the founding fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel de Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). It seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since it's medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL specialists who were these Freitas. Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz "probably" belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. But I don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. Fernando. (I was never able to confirm this title) Well, Once again congratulations and regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website > > hey guys, > > especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, > > I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ > (http://teles.tribalpages.com) > > and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that way > would be easier to follow p how close we are related. > > let me know what you guys think > > thank u > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Lou, > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For > us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not > all > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, > Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > ancient Portuguese family. > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > Best regards, > > Miguel > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to > Maria Lopes? > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as > ascendant. > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Miguel > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues > > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria > Lopes > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl > > 81) > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > Castro Henriques > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > typical names from these times. > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > Drummond > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > daughter > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > All, > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > > > them > > out > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > > > are appreciated. > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > Baixo > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/05/09 > 08:13:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel.... im looking for the francas in S vicente as well. i have antonio mendes married with dona maria de franca in mid 1600s (dont have the precise date) but have no parents of the groom neither the bride. Can you help me with that please? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 06/12/2009 16:40:05 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hello Lou, The nª 4 Vicente de França de Andrada has a similar name to some Brasões Teixeiras and Brasões Gouveias from S. Vicente. Have you explored his line? Somehow he must be of the Franças and of the Andrades. In 4. Is it Sebastina de A. de dau. of the nº 3 ? Regards, Miguel On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > 1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage not > recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, 16 > Sept > 1614 – B#389, fl 153) > > 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, 27 Aug > 1640 – B#390, fl 41) > > 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao Vicente, > 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) > > 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – > B#556, fl 63) > > 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June 1735 > – > B#409, fl 24) > > 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 Feb > 1770 > – B#409, fl 79) > > 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan 1815 > – > B#411, fl 8) > > 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 July > 1849 – B#411, fl 110) > > 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra de > Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) > > 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da Camara > (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) > > 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, 9 > April 1939) > > 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, > Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) > > 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, > Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant of > the homem family in ribeira brava > > thank you > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Leandro, > Okay I see the confusion, let me explain > > Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira > (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) > > I hope that clears up the confusion. > > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. > > im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But pat > said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco > rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) > > leandro > > > In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Leandro, > I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little > spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. > > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Thank you Pat > > Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? > > Thank you > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > Leandro, > > Not sure if this is the same "person." > > The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, > with > the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. > > I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de > Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. > > Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. > > Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... > > I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my > genealogy > quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not > now...Frustrating to say the least. > > I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's > line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... > Nothing > consent but the state of change...;-))). > > Pat > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Pat, > > I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES > AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not > to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or > am i mistaken? > > Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the > descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? > > Thank you > > Leandro > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Pat, > You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal > record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his > full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as > follows > > Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 > > Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May > 22 1560 > > Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana > > Does this answer your questions? > > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) > > Miguel, > > Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct > line ancestors? > > Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if > my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is > your ancestor... > > If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from > > Fernao Ennes to you... > > > Pat > > p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? > On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names > are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte > name from? > > >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Lou, > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. > For us > living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected > names > from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have > Homens > from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know > there > are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem > de > Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, > because a > simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > from > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very > ancient Portuguese family. > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > Best regards, > > Miguel > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage > to > Maria Lopes? > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as > ascendant. > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Miguel > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode > and > > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > > mentioned > > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte > on 16 > > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria > Lopes > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl > 81) > > > > Regards, > > Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > Castro > > Henriques > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > typical > > names from these times. > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > Drummond > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > daughter ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Miguel > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > All, > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending > them > > out > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > > appreciated. > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de > Baixo > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected]sweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Leandro, Who do you have as your Ines Afonso's parents? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 11:09:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) hey Pat... im also descended from this couple thru their daughter Ines Afonso. She is my 12th GGM do u have the ancestors of pedro and leonor? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 6:40:18 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lou, Thank you. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Abreu III" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 12:27:29 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

1. Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira (ca. 1590, marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) 2. Francisco Rodrigues Duarte + Ines Martins(1) (Ribeira Brava, 16 Sept 1614 – B#389, fl 153) 3. Manuel Duarte(2) + Catarina de Abreu (widow) (Ribeira Brava, 27 Aug 1640 – B#390, fl 41) 4. Vicente de Franca de Andrade + Sebastiana de Abreu(3) (Sao Vicente, 5 Feb 1670 – B#579, fl 53) 5. Vicente de Franca(4) + Maria de Sa (Sao Vicente, 3 Sept 1696 – B#556, fl 63) 6. Basilio Pestana + Josefa de Franca(5) (Serra de Agua, 13 June 1735 – B#409, fl 24) 7. Francisco de Andrade(6) + Maria dos Reis (Serra de Agua, 20 Feb 1770 – B#409, fl 79) 8. Manuel de Andrade Silva(7) + Ana Maria (Serra de Agua, 30 Jan 1815 – B#411, fl 8) 9. Manuel Pestana de Gouveia + Delfina Maria(8) (Serra de Agua, 9 July 1849 – B#411, fl 110) 10. Joao de Abreu Amarelo(widower) + Delfina da Conceicao(9) Serra de Agua, 13 April 1891 – R#6) 11. Antonio Neves de Abreu Amarelo(10) + Carolina de Sousa da Camara (Ponta do Sol, 3 Feb 1916 –R#2) 12. Louis Neves Abreu(11) + Maria Pita (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, 9 April 1939) 13. Louis Neves Abreu Jr(12) + Pauline Alice Genest (Lowell, Massachusetts USA, 7 Sept 1959) 14. Louis Neves Abreu III(13) + Deborah Elaine Bourgeois (Lowell, Massachusetts, USA 20 Oct 1979) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant of the homem family in ribeira brava thank you leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Okay I see the confusion, let me explain Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) I hope that clears up the confusion. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But pat said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Thank you Pat Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

thank you Lou... looking forward to it :) In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:29:57 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Sure do, Dr. Mello did a great job getting me started, I will send it shortly Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant of the homem family in ribeira brava thank you leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Okay I see the confusion, let me explain Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) I hope that clears up the confusion. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But pat said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Thank you Pat Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

yes..it helps a lot. do u have the ancestors of ines? im also descendant of the homem family in ribeira brava thank you leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 1:25:11 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Okay I see the confusion, let me explain Ines Martin's Parents are Francisco Goncalves Homem and Isabel Pereira (marriage not recorded in Ribeira Brava) I hope that clears up the confusion. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION hi lou, my doubt is on the children of pedro afonso and leonor homem. im descended from their dau ines afonso married with fernao anes. But pat said that you have their dau as ines martins married with francisco rodrigues duarte. im really confused about that :) leandro In a message dated 12/6/2009 12:06:49 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, I am not sure which line we are talking about here, sorry I am a little spun around on this one, what do you need clarified. Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Thank you Pat Lou...can u pls clarify this line for us please? Thank you Leandro In a message dated 12/5/2009 10:54:59 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, Not sure if this is the same "person." The only Pedro Afonso (Cavaleiro) I have is married to Leonor Homem, with the children that I mentioned in my posting attention Miguel and Lou. I don't have Pedro's parents, but Leonor's parents are Joao Homem (de Monte Gordo) and Catarina Vaz. Hopefully Miguel and/or Paulo will be able to add to this thread. Ines Martins is Lou's ancestor... I must admit I'm more confused now than when I first started my genealogy quest many, many "moons," ago. I'm finding that what was is not now...Frustrating to say the least. I'm trying to sort out Jorge Pinto and Leonor de Atouguia da Costa's line...my info differs from what's in Norhonha- titulo: Pintos... Nothing consent but the state of change...;-))). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 1:08:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, I have Pedro afonso and leonor de sousa having a daughter called INES AFONSO and not ines martins. also she is married to fernao anes and not to francisco duarte. Are we talking about the same person on here? or am i mistaken? Also, Lou, can you send me on my private email [email protected] the descendency list of manuel duarte and guiomar camacho please? Thank you Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Pat, You are correct with the marriage record, however, his baptismal record (11 Dec 1586 b#376,fl 202) as recorded by Dr. Mello, list his full name as Francisco Rodrigues Duarte. His line from there is as follows Parents Manuel Duarte + Guiomar Camacha Ribeira Brava Nov 26 1584 Manuel's Parents Francisco Duarte + Maria Fernandes Ribeira Brava May 22 1560 Guiomar's Parents Francisco Rodrigues Camacho + Catarina Pestana Does this answer your questions? Regards, Lou -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION (Miguel and Lou) Miguel, Isn't Pedro Afonso who is married to Leonor Homem one of your direct line ancestors? Their son Francisco Homem D'El-Rei is my direct line ancestors, and if my notes/memory serves me correctly Francisco's brother Fernao Ennes is your ancestor... If the above is correct will you please share the descending order from Fernao Ennes to you... Pat p.s. Lou do you have this marriage record that you referenced below? On the Madeira Archives listing for this marriage, the couples' names are Ines Martins and Francisco Rodrigues...where did you get the Duarte name from? >Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on >16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:43:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION Lou, Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever be. For us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally expected names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if not all (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from the Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also have Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As we know there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de Sousa, Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at all, because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three types). In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken from people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a very ancient Portuguese family. Well, I hope I was of some help, Best regards, Miguel PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his marriage to Maria Lopes? Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo as ascendant. Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn mode and > have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he is > mentioned > in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco Rodrigues Duarte on 16 > Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter Maria Lopes > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book #454, fl 81) > > Regards, > Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > Hello Lu, > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean typical > names from these times. > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any Drummond > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or daughter ? > > Regards, > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am sending them > out > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints are > > appreciated. > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar de Baixo > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message