Mary, I looked in all four Barretos genealogies and the only mention of a Estevao is Estevao de Velosa Barreto from the 1800's. I am so sorry!!!   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Mary Frost <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 8:11:39 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Luis: I am sorry, I think I misunderstood. The family name is Barreto. His name is Estevao Fernandes Barreto but I do not know who his parents were or where they came from. If you can find anything on him, I would be most grateful. Thanks you Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Luis Beal Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Mary, I really need a bit more info like your 7g gfather's name. I also need you to tell me where you want me to look for it (which family name from the list I posted). I have over 300 pages so I can't just scan for names.   Thanks,   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Mary Frost <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 3:59:14 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Hello Luis: I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know where or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he was married to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to adulthood and marry in Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the surname Fernandes and his daughters used the surnames of de Freitas and de Nobrega. Any info would be enlightening. Thank you Mary da Silva Frost ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ha ha! I just sent you a message and right after I noticed you had his name on the subject line! Man I'm doing well today :| I'll look again.   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Mary Frost <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 8:11:39 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Luis: I am sorry, I think I misunderstood. The family name is Barreto. His name is Estevao Fernandes Barreto but I do not know who his parents were or where they came from. If you can find anything on him, I would be most grateful. Thanks you Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Luis Beal Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Mary, I really need a bit more info like your 7g gfather's name. I also need you to tell me where you want me to look for it (which family name from the list I posted). I have over 300 pages so I can't just scan for names.   Thanks,   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Mary Frost <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 3:59:14 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Hello Luis: I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know where or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he was married to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to adulthood and marry in Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the surname Fernandes and his daughters used the surnames of de Freitas and de Nobrega. Any info would be enlightening. Thank you Mary da Silva Frost ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In the Barretos do Porto da Cruz there is one Joao Barreto, married in 1611 to Catarina Dias, daughter of Antonio Fernandes e Maria Tomas. He is the son of Gaspar Fernandes and Joana Barreto and lived in Porto da Cruz around 1580. There is no mention of children but he has 3 brothers and a sister listed. Pedro Barreto and Guiomar Lourenco, married 1610; Simao Barreto married first Maria Dias, then Leonor de Freitas; Gaspar Fernandes and Maria Figueiredo, married 1621; Madalena Barreto and Andre' Lourenco, married 1602.   Don't know if that fits your family. Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 4:56:29 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Hello Mary, If his daus. used Freitas e de Nóbrega he is a Barreto from Gaula. I bet. So he is a descendant of Duarte Barreto ( a g. son probably) the first Barreto from Gaula. Clode says he was not noble. Gouveia e Freitas says he definitely was. A Fidalgo. Whatever the case he was wealthy- "abastado proprietário -  and from him came all sorts of Barretos from Gaula and some went to S. Gonçalo and elsewhere. In the book Famílias de Gaula these Barretos are said to be one of the old families from Gaula. I'm also descended from them. Miguel On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello Luis: > > I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know where > or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he was married > to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to adulthood and marry > in > Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the surname Fernandes and his > daughters used the surnames of de Freitas and de Nobrega. > > Any info would be enlightening. > > Thank you > > Mary da Silva Frost > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You were cautious to have downloaded all that. Now you may even start a small home business selling photocopied small books of what you got ; - )) After all, why not? NESOS is not bound to re-emerge in the next future. As most of these genealogies are from before the fifties, I suppose, you don't have to pay royalties. And there will be some clients, here in this list and in Madeira too. Curiously enough I found ancestors in plenty of these genealogies, except in the Berengueres, Coelhos do Porto Santo, Uzeis, Nunes Pereiras do Monte, Pontes de Gouveia, Pintos de Lemos, Freitas do Vale da Bica, Pitas Fernandes, and Monizes Afonsecas. But even in those I found interesting material and some relatives. It was warm here. Verão de São martinho. Castanhas e aguapé, but I changed to Castanhas and Malvasia. Miguel On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Luis Beal <[email protected]> wrote: > List, > > I don't know if I ever mentioned that I have copies of pages of the "Das > Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was online before the Nesos site > went down. > I have pages for these Genealogies: > > Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias Costa > Azevedos > Azevedos Cardosos Baioes > Barretos > Barretos da Ponta do Sol > Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge > Barretos do Porto da Cruz > Baptistas > Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos Lobos > Berengueres > Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo - Teixeiras > Bragas > Coelhos do Porto Santo > Gomes Eannes > Cunhas > Conego Menezes Vaz > Freitas Martins > Cabrais > Amis > Ferrazes > Vaz Rebelos > Rodrigues de Gouveia > Uzeis > Andradas do Arco > Pontes de Gouveias > Carvalhos Pais > Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos > Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do Monte > Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa > Teles do Campanario > Giz do Campanario > Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de Braga 1501-1544 > Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau > Vales > Titulos nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira > Jardins do Arco da Calheta > Pintos de Lemos > Araujos > Vares > Abreus Santos > Caiados e Caiados Goncalves > Freitas do Vale da Bica > Pitas Fernandes > Lopes Esteves > Antepassados dos Araujos > Rodrigues Lourencos > Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII > Monizes Agonsecas > > If you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the > subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only > look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not > have copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry. > > Have a great day, hopefully a warm one too ;) > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Luis: I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know where or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he was married to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to adulthood and marry in Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the surname Fernandes and his daughters used the surnames of de Freitas and de Nobrega. Any info would be enlightening. Thank you Mary da Silva Frost

Ah! S not C! Serta comes up readily on yahoo. Thanks to both Miguel and Scot. Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scot Austin Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Vila de Certa? Try this link http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Special:PlaceMap?pagetitle=Sert%C3%A3%2C+Sert%C 3%A3%2C+Castelo+Branco%2C+Portugal Scot Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Hello Mary, > > It's a very ancient town, from the time of the Romans (AD) and before it > was a celtic town, and before that a paleolithic settlement. It was there > that was born Nun'Álvares Pereira, our national hero, recently sanctified by > Pope Benedictus. > > It's on the central region of Portugal, on the Castelo Branco area. You > could also call it, a La Moisés Espírito Santo, "centrã" ; - )) > > Try this: > > http://www.mapadeportugal.net/localidade.asp?n=certa&c=0502&t=gr > > I have links two or three at least to the Mata line, through the Caiados, > and through Manuel Martins and Ana Baptista (Spínola), etc. > > The Matas were into chivalry. Much before thus recent crave or craze for > gothic novels they were - 500 hundreds beefor, full unto it. They, the Matas > from Gaula, who was a Da Vinci Code area avant la lettre, named one of their > scions: Galaz. Galaz da Mata. Galaz like Sir Galahad, of course. But then > you have Lançarote, which is the Portuguese version of Lancelot.. > The spirit of Knighthood was on full swing those days. Fortunately, I may > add. Graciously too, I hope, with long term effects ; -)) > > Regrads, > > Miguel > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > > >> Hello Miguel: >> >> The information on the Mata family is interesting to me too as I can track >> my line to Gaula and the Mata line(s). I tried to find a reference to the >> location of Certa online but cannot. Where is it located? >> >> Thank you >> >> Mary da Silva Frost >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Cece, Can you find a reference about Pedro Gonçalves Camacho and Catarina Anes in the Acciolis title of HHN? There is in fact a Catarina Anes dau. of João Escócio, but it's another, an homonimous of the one geneall refers as wife of Pedro Gonçalves Camacho. On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel, > Re your note below about : > "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about > Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho > connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of > geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. > FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > Pimentel, I think." > > I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter Isabel - > and neither from Geneall. > My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras > Drummond & Lordello geneologies). > So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do you > have > to disprove this? > Cece > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > Pat, > > Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de Andrade > in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones I'm looking > for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who married in 1650 Gaspar > de > Moura de Mendonça. > My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, > becoming > a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would be ostracized > for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very least let one year go > by. > > There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. > > Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO 1651, > parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some Barreto. And there > were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or Tuim) around in S. > Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you know > very > well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the Barretos. > > . > > The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about > > > Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > > - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho > > connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of > geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. > > FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > Pimentel, I think. > > Best regards, > > > Miguel > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Miguel, > > > > I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira parents > > of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. > > > > Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... > > Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. > > > > Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via > > John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate > > that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). > > > > John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel > > Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). > > > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > > > > > > > Does anyone has any info about this couple: > > > > > > Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? > > > > Thanks in advance for any news. > > > > Miguel > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this > incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.99/2553 - Release Date: 12/10/09 > 07:36:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Mary, I really need a bit more info like your 7g gfather's name. I also need you to tell me where you want me to look for it (which family name from the list I posted). I have over 300 pages so I can't just scan for names.   Thanks,   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Mary Frost <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 3:59:14 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Hello Luis: I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know where or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he was married to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to adulthood and marry in Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the surname Fernandes and his daughters used the surnames of de Freitas and de Nobrega. Any info would be enlightening. Thank you Mary da Silva Frost ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If you put my name in the subject line where you put (Amis) it grabs my attention. I scan pretty much every e-mail but don't always check the details, especially when I'm deep in homework, so if my name is on top it'll make me focus on the e-mail :) Amis: Os deste apelido procedem do bacharel Joao Fernandes de Amil, um dos primitivos sesmeiros da Madeira que viveu nesta ilha em tempo de El-Rei D. Manuel. Foi ele que fundou em 1510, por ordem do Rei e da Rainha D. Leonor, a Santa Casa da Misericordia do Funchal, tendo sido seu primeiro provedor. Era fidalgo-cavaleiro da casa real e Juiz das Capelas e Residuos. Morreu no Funchal e foi sepultado na Se'. Veio casado de Portugal com Ana Vaz. Teve: 1-Manuel de Amil - fidalgo da casa real, provedor da Misericordia do Funchal, foi sepultado na Capela dos Anjosque em S. Francisco mandara edificar. Casou 1 com Joana Delgado, viuva de Pedro de Noronha, filha de Pedro Gomes de Galdo e de Constanca Delgado. Casou 2 vez aos 70 anos, em 1579 com Francisca de Carvalhal falecida em 11 Fev 1585, filha de Zuzarte Ribeiro de Carvalhal e de D. Beatriz de Vasconcelos. 2-Inacia de Amil casou com Fernao Alves Barreto, filho de Alvaro Eanes e de Ines Fernandes em titulo de Figueiredos 3-Margarida Annes de Amil casou 1 com Diogo Nunes Pinto ja' falecido antes de 1580, filho de Jorge Pinto e de Leonor da Costa em titulo de Pintos. Casou 2 com Jorge Pinto da Costa, irmao de seu primeiro marido. 4-Elvira Calcada de Amil casou com Manuel Vogado, filho de Pedro Vogado Soto Maior e de D. Clara Esteves em titulo de Vogados. 5-Catarina de Amil casou com Antonio de Atouguia, segundo filho de Francisco Alvares da Costa e de D. Branca de Atouguia. Em titulo de Atouguias. 6-Maria de Amil casou com Manuel Ferreira, filho de Diogo Ferreira e de Maria Ribeiro em titulo de Ferreiras Ribeiros. 7-Joao Fernandes de Amil, casou em 1540? com Mecia da Costa, filha de Jorge Pinto e de Leonor da Costa em titulo de Pintos da Costa. Sorry, doesn't say where in Portugal they came from. Good luck, Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 3:33:40 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] (Amis) Luis, Not sure I'm doing this correctly... I would be interested in whatever you have for the surname of Amis...which I believe has a spelling variation of Amil...  specially Joao Fernandes de Amil married to Ana Vaz, with daughters Inacia and Margarida. Thank You, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:06:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira List, I don't know if I ever mentioned that I have copies of pages of the "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was online before  the Nesos site went down. I have pages for these Genealogies: Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias Costa Azevedos Azevedos Cardosos Baioes Barretos Barretos da Ponta do Sol Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge Barretos do Porto da Cruz Baptistas Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos Lobos Berengueres Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo - Teixeiras Bragas Coelhos do Porto Santo Gomes Eannes Cunhas Conego Menezes Vaz Freitas Martins Cabrais Amis Ferrazes Vaz Rebelos Rodrigues de Gouveia Uzeis Andradas do Arco Pontes de Gouveias Carvalhos Pais Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do Monte Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa Teles do Campanario Giz do Campanario Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de Braga 1501-1544 Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau Vales Titulos nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira Jardins do Arco da Calheta Pintos de Lemos Araujos Vares Abreus Santos Caiados e Caiados Goncalves Freitas do Vale da Bica Pitas Fernandes Lopes Esteves Antepassados dos Araujos Rodrigues Lourencos Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII Monizes Agonsecas If you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not have copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry. Have a great day, hopefully a warm one too ;) Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Try this link http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Special:PlaceMap?pagetitle=Sert%C3%A3%2C+Sert%C3%A3%2C+Castelo+Branco%2C+Portugal Scot Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Hello Mary, > > It's a very ancient town, from the time of the Romans (AD) and before it > was a celtic town, and before that a paleolithic settlement. It was there > that was born Nun'Álvares Pereira, our national hero, recently sanctified by > Pope Benedictus. > > It's on the central region of Portugal, on the Castelo Branco area. You > could also call it, a La Moisés Espírito Santo, "centrã" ; - )) > > Try this: > > http://www.mapadeportugal.net/localidade.asp?n=certa&c=0502&t=gr > > I have links two or three at least to the Mata line, through the Caiados, > and through Manuel Martins and Ana Baptista (Spínola), etc. > > The Matas were into chivalry. Much before thus recent crave or craze for > gothic novels they were - 500 hundreds beefor, full unto it. They, the Matas > from Gaula, who was a Da Vinci Code area avant la lettre, named one of their > scions: Galaz. Galaz da Mata. Galaz like Sir Galahad, of course. But then > you have Lançarote, which is the Portuguese version of Lancelot.. > The spirit of Knighthood was on full swing those days. Fortunately, I may > add. Graciously too, I hope, with long term effects ; -)) > > Regrads, > > Miguel > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > > >> Hello Miguel: >> >> The information on the Mata family is interesting to me too as I can track >> my line to Gaula and the Mata line(s). I tried to find a reference to the >> location of Certa online but cannot. Where is it located? >> >> Thank you >> >> Mary da Silva Frost >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Cece, > > Can you find a reference about Pedro Gonçalves Camacho and Catarina Anes in > the Acciolis title of HHN? > > There is in fact a Catarina Anes dau. of João Escócio, but it's another, an > homonimous of the one geneall refers as wife of Pedro Gonçalves Camacho. > I show her married to Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira Scot > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Miguel, >> Re your note below about : >> "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the >> Pimentel, I think." >> >> I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter Isabel - >> and neither from Geneall. >> My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras >> Drummond & Lordello geneologies). >> So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do you >> have >> to disprove this? >> Cece >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro >> Henriques >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho >> >> Pat, >> >> Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de Andrade >> in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones I'm looking >> for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who married in 1650 Gaspar >> de >> Moura de Mendonça. >> My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, >> becoming >> a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would be ostracized >> for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very least let one year go >> by. >> >> There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. >> >> Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO 1651, >> parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some Barreto. And there >> were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or Tuim) around in S. >> Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you know >> very >> well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the Barretos. >> >> . >> >> The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about >> >> >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> >> >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho >> >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. >> >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the >> Pimentel, I think. >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> >>> Miguel, >>> >>> I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira parents >>> of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. >>> >>> Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... >>> Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. >>> >>> Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via >>> John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate >>> that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). >>> >>> John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel >>> Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). >>> >>> Pat >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>> Pacific >>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho >>> >>> >>>> Does anyone has any info about this couple: >>>> >>> Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any news. >>> >>> Miguel >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this >> incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.99/2553 - Release Date: 12/10/09 >> 07:36:00 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Haha, great idea Miguel. I could make money off all my friends on this list :) I actually have no intentions of starting a business. At this point I just want everyone to get their families figured out as cheap as we can so my offer to look up names in the genealogies (for free) still stands :) Great that you found so many of yours in this book. Unfortunatelly I have not had time to check every page individually but my family seems to be at least in the Berengueres and the Cabrais through Pedro Moniz da Camara e Isabel de Andrade. Unfortunately Clode screwed up that line so I don't trust the stuff he wrote in it and thus it is not in my pedigree until I confirm it. 6 more months and I'll have time to play with it again. Thanks for your help, Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 11:15:08 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira You were cautious to have downloaded all that. Now you may even start a small home business selling photocopied small books of what you got ; - )) After all, why not? NESOS is not bound to re-emerge in the next future. As most of these genealogies are from before the fifties, I suppose, you don't have to pay royalties. And there will be some clients, here in this list and in Madeira too. Curiously enough I found ancestors in plenty of these genealogies, except in the Berengueres, Coelhos do Porto Santo, Uzeis, Nunes Pereiras do Monte, Pontes de Gouveia, Pintos de Lemos, Freitas do Vale da Bica, Pitas Fernandes, and  Monizes Afonsecas. But even in those I found interesting material and some relatives. It was warm here. Verão de São martinho. Castanhas e aguapé, but I changed to Castanhas and Malvasia. Miguel On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Luis Beal <[email protected]> wrote: > List, > > I don't know if I ever mentioned that I have copies of pages of the "Das > Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was online before  the Nesos site > went down. > I have pages for these Genealogies: > > Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias Costa > Azevedos > Azevedos Cardosos Baioes > Barretos > Barretos da Ponta do Sol > Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge > Barretos do Porto da Cruz > Baptistas > Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos Lobos > Berengueres > Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo - Teixeiras > Bragas > Coelhos do Porto Santo > Gomes Eannes > Cunhas > Conego Menezes Vaz > Freitas Martins > Cabrais > Amis > Ferrazes > Vaz Rebelos > Rodrigues de Gouveia > Uzeis > Andradas do Arco > Pontes de Gouveias > Carvalhos Pais > Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos > Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do Monte > Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa > Teles do Campanario > Giz do Campanario > Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de Braga 1501-1544 > Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau > Vales > Titulos nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira > Jardins do Arco da Calheta > Pintos de Lemos > Araujos > Vares > Abreus Santos > Caiados e Caiados Goncalves > Freitas do Vale da Bica > Pitas Fernandes > Lopes Esteves > Antepassados dos Araujos > Rodrigues Lourencos > Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII > Monizes Agonsecas > > If you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the > subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only > look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not > have copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry. > > Have a great day, hopefully a warm one too ;) > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat, Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de Andrade in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones I'm looking for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who married in 1650 Gaspar de Moura de Mendonça. My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, becoming a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would be ostracized for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very least let one year go by. There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO 1651, parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some Barreto. And there were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or Tuim) around in S. Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you know very well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the Barretos. . The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the Pimentel, I think. Best regards, Miguel On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Miguel, > > I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira parents of > Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. > > Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... > Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. > > Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via John's > daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate that this > daughter is FAD's ancestor). > > John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel Fernandes > CAMACHO, the father.). > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > > > > Does anyone has any info about this couple: > > > Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? > > Thanks in advance for any news. > > Miguel > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

List,   I don't know if I ever mentioned that I have copies of pages of the "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was online before  the Nesos site went down. I have pages for these Genealogies:   Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias Costa Azevedos Azevedos Cardosos Baioes Barretos Barretos da Ponta do Sol Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge Barretos do Porto da Cruz Baptistas Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos Lobos Berengueres Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo - Teixeiras Bragas Coelhos do Porto Santo Gomes Eannes Cunhas Conego Menezes Vaz Freitas Martins Cabrais Amis Ferrazes Vaz Rebelos Rodrigues de Gouveia Uzeis Andradas do Arco Pontes de Gouveias Carvalhos Pais Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do Monte Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa Teles do Campanario Giz do Campanario Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de Braga 1501-1544 Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau Vales Titulos nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira Jardins do Arco da Calheta Pintos de Lemos Araujos Vares Abreus Santos Caiados e Caiados Goncalves Freitas do Vale da Bica Pitas Fernandes Lopes Esteves Antepassados dos Araujos Rodrigues Lourencos Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII Monizes Agonsecas If you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not have copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry.   Have a great day, hopefully a warm one too ;)   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator

Miguel, Re your note below about : "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the Pimentel, I think." I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter Isabel - and neither from Geneall. My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras Drummond & Lordello geneologies). So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do you have to disprove this? Cece -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho Pat, Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de Andrade in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones I'm looking for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who married in 1650 Gaspar de Moura de Mendonça. My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, becoming a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would be ostracized for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very least let one year go by. There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO 1651, parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some Barreto. And there were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or Tuim) around in S. Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you know very well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the Barretos. . The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the Pimentel, I think. Best regards, Miguel On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Miguel, > > I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira parents > of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. > > Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... > Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. > > Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via > John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate > that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). > > John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel > Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > > > > Does anyone has any info about this couple: > > > Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? > > Thanks in advance for any news. > > Miguel > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.99/2553 - Release Date: 12/10/09 07:36:00

Thanks Miguel. In a message dated 12/11/2009 2:38:29 A.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hello Leandro, Forget the former sequence. I forgot to add D. João Henriques de Noronha. Here is goes again > Voilà: > > Genealogy of the Ferreiras de Noronha from Caniço - according to Morgado > Pereira de Agrela, HHN nobiliário, RGMPS (Clode), TGM II. from geneall, ARM > database, Alão de Morais, Felisberto Bettencourt de Miranda. > > 1. King Henrique II of Castille * and Elvira Iñiguez de La Vega , (from > the famous and ancient Lasso de La Vega family. who among others had the > Inka Garcilaso de La Vega, and the poet homonymous Garcilaso de La Vega) > 1.1 Don Alfonso Henriques, Conde de Noroña e Gijón had from N.: > 1.2. D. João Henriques de Noronha had from Beatriz, Lady of Mirabel: > 1.3.. D. Mécia de Noronha. m. 146...João Gonçalves da Câmara, "O Porrinha", > son of João Gonçalves da Câmara 1st. Capitão Donatário and Constança > Rodrigues, had: > 1.4. Manuel de Noronha (Poeta do Cancioneiro) and Isabel Soares Ferreira > (mulher nobre de Câmara de Lobos) had: > 1.5. Maria de Noronha. m.1520 João Gonçalves de Aguiar, they had > 1.6. Simão Gonçalves de Noronha m. 1560 Inês Ferreira de Andrade, they had: > 1.7. João Ferreira de Noronha m 1601 Caniço, Inês de Andrade. dau. > Francisco de Cairos Ribeiro and Catarina Fernandes, they had: > 1.8. António Ferreira m. Maria Mendes (From the Mendo Enes); Belchior > Soares; Maria de Andrade m. 1651 Caniço Manuel Dias Saldanha, son of Pedro > Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques, they had: > *1.9. Matias de Andrad*e m 1691 Caniço. Francisca de Nóbrega, dau of > Gabriel de Nóbrega and Maria Jorge., > > > * The genealogy of King Henrique II, of Castille, El de Las mercedes, is > well known. It's on geneall and on more sites. He is also a descendant of D. > Afonso Henriques, 1st King of Portugal. > > > Regards, > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:06 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Miguel.... >> >> Corrections made already. Thank you very much. >> >> About Frutuoso Pires, i got their names from their marriage certificate >> when it was available in NESOS. >> >> I would love to receive from you the ancestry of Matias de Andrada. Will >> be >> looking forward to that. Thank you >> >> Leandro >> >> >> In a message dated 12/10/2009 5:25:17 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Leandro, >> >> Since I have to start somewhere here are my suggestions of corrections: >> >> Gabriel de Nóbrega married Francisca d'Ocanha and not Francisca de Cunha >> - >> It makes all the difference, the D'OCanhas orginate in João d'Ocanha, >> Escudeiro. It was one of the first families to settle in Madeira. Minor >> nobility, of Spanish origin. But they very early linked with the Câmaras, >> with Henriques Alemão, etc. check HHN, "Canhas." >> >> Mundos de Nóbrega and not Mendo de Nóbrega. It also makes all the >> difference, since he is probably the only Mundos of all history of >> Madeira >> and of Portugal. His name could be Edmundo, but he is known as Mundos. He >> is >> José Fernandes', as well as Cece's and mine too (and also other in this >> list) direct ancestor. In José's case "directissimo", since it comes via >> his >> mother. In mine through a maternal, gg. mother. >> >> Leonor Marchena and not Lenor Machina. (I had a discussion about this >> Marchena in this list w+ith prima Pat, long ago, if I am not wrong) >> >> And one question - how do you know that Maria Tello married with Frutuoso >> Pires, was a Maria Telo de Meneses? >> >> I mean she may be, she most probably is, but in António Fernandes CL >> marriage with Catarina Fernandes >> ( I have the document, and am a direct descendant) ) she appears only as >> Maria Tello. >> About Frutuoso Pires I am convinced he is Pires de Canha, or Pires >> d'Ocanha. >> Just intuition and because of the witness Francisco Martins de Canha and >> Hilário Rodrigues (another Canha in disguise, IMO)- Francisco martions de >> Canha was a descedant of João Pires de Canha. Check geneall. They copied >> it >> from HHN. So it's bound to be right. >> >> If you're interested will try to send you the ascendancy of Matias de >> Andrada (you already have him) , who links with the Noronhas of Caniço, >> and >> with Alfonso Henriques. Conde de Noroña y Gijón. (A colourful character, >> attacked Cascais, the famous Portuguese cosmopolitan tourist resort (The >> Portuguese Cannes or Nice). Was in war for years with his half-brother, >> who >> happened to be the King of Spain. Almost won the war. But finally lost it >> and was sent into exile to France. He lost his title, fortune, position, >> and >> he and his wife , Isabel of Portugal (illegitimate daughter of a >> Portuguese >> King) etc. led a life of poverty until their deaths. It was not a small >> loss >> since he was probably the second most powerful man in Spain and the chief >> of >> a considerable part of the titled nobility. >> >> His sons, because of their kinship with the Kin of Portugal all went to >> Portugal. Where they received nobility titles and married into the >> highest >> nobility. Since then, among the old genealogists, there is saying "quem >> não >> tem sangue de Noronha, não é da nobreza a valer." Who has no Noronha >> blood >> is not from the real nobility." Whatever. Our times are more democratic. >> But >> it's worth remembering the social and historical importance the Noronhas >> had. They were Vice-Roys in the Portuguese India, Counts of this and >> that, >> Marquis, Bishops, and had the right to use "Dom" before their name. (Dom >> is >> a short word for Dominus, in latin, Lord or Sir). So to sum up, after the >> Royal House there was the House of the Noronhas. >> And then,hmmmmm, the others. >> >> >> >> regards, >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:40 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > hey Miguel, >> > >> > you are MORE THAN WELCOME to make suggestions and add new info. >> Actually, >> > not only you but all our cousins from the forum, which im so proud to >> be >> > related to. These cyber space is quite nice actually, it feels like a >> big >> > family. Thank you for your compliments and im looking forward to hear >> from >> > you >> > all. >> > >> > Leandro >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 06/12/2009 17:30:40 Romance Standard Time, >> > mig[email protected] writes: >> > >> > Hi Leandro, >> > >> > >> > Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - >> it >> > shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't >> mind >> > if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? >> > Some >> > I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and >> documents. >> > >> > Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to >> > significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. >> > >> > Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was >> > Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the >> founding >> > fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel >> de >> > Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). >> It >> > seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since >> it's >> > medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL >> specialists >> > who >> > were these Freitas. >> > >> > Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz >> > "probably" >> > belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. >> But >> > I >> > don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they >> > descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. >> > Fernando. >> > (I was never able to confirm this title) >> > >> > Well, >> > >> > Once again congratulations and >> > >> > regards, >> > >> > >> > Miguel >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website >> > > >> > > hey guys, >> > > >> > > especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, >> > > >> > > I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ >> > > (http://teles.tribalpages.com) >> > > >> > > and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in >> that >> > way >> > > would be easier to follow p how close we are related. >> > > >> > > let me know what you guys think >> > > >> > > thank u >> > > >> > > leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > Lou, >> > > >> > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever >> be. >> > For >> > > us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >> > expected >> > > names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if >> not >> > > all >> > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many >> people. >> > > >> > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from >> > the >> > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also >> have >> > > Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As >> we >> > know >> > > there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de >> Sousa, >> > > Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple >> at >> > all, >> > > because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three >> > types). >> > > >> > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic >> taken >> > from >> > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a >> very >> > > ancient Portuguese family. >> > > >> > > >> > > Well, I hope I was of some help, >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > >> > > Miguel >> > > >> > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his >> marriage >> > to >> > > Maria Lopes? >> > > >> > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo >> as >> > > ascendant. >> > > >> > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <deepsea0 [email protected] >> > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn >> mode >> > > > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >> is >> > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >> Rodrigues >> > > > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >> > > > >> > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >> Maria >> > > Lopes >> > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book >> #454, >> > fl >> > > > 81) >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > Lou >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > From: [email protected] >> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >> > > > Castro Henriques >> > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >> > > > To: [email protected] >> > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > > >> > > > Hello Lu, >> > > > >> > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >> > > > typical names from these times. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >> > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. >> Any >> > > Drummond >> > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >> > > > daughter >> > > ? >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III >> <[email protected]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > All, >> > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am >> sending >> > > > > them >> > > > out >> > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or >> hints >> > > > > are appreciated. >> > > > > >> > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar >> de >> > > Baixo >> > > > > >> > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >> > > > > >> > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >> > > > > >> > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >> > > > > >> > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >> > > > > >> > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >> > > > > >> > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is >> welcomed. >> > > > > >> > > > > Lou >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > the >> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: >> > 12/05/09 >> > > 08:13:00 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject >> > and the body of the message >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel, I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira parents of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > Does anyone has any info about this couple: Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? Thanks in advance for any news. Miguel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Leandro, Forget the former sequence. I forgot to add D. João Henriques de Noronha. Here is goes again > Voilà: > > Genealogy of the Ferreiras de Noronha from Caniço - according to Morgado > Pereira de Agrela, HHN nobiliário, RGMPS (Clode), TGM II. from geneall, ARM > database, Alão de Morais, Felisberto Bettencourt de Miranda. > > 1. King Henrique II of Castille * and Elvira Iñiguez de La Vega , (from > the famous and ancient Lasso de La Vega family. who among others had the > Inka Garcilaso de La Vega, and the poet homonymous Garcilaso de La Vega) > 1.1 Don Alfonso Henriques, Conde de Noroña e Gijón had from N.: > 1.2. D. João Henriques de Noronha had from Beatriz, Lady of Mirabel: > 1.3.. D. Mécia de Noronha. m. 146...João Gonçalves da Câmara, "O Porrinha", > son of João Gonçalves da Câmara 1st. Capitão Donatário and Constança > Rodrigues, had: > 1.4. Manuel de Noronha (Poeta do Cancioneiro) and Isabel Soares Ferreira > (mulher nobre de Câmara de Lobos) had: > 1.5. Maria de Noronha. m.1520 João Gonçalves de Aguiar, they had > 1.6. Simão Gonçalves de Noronha m. 1560 Inês Ferreira de Andrade, they had: > 1.7. João Ferreira de Noronha m 1601 Caniço, Inês de Andrade. dau. > Francisco de Cairos Ribeiro and Catarina Fernandes, they had: > 1.8. António Ferreira m. Maria Mendes (From the Mendo Enes); Belchior > Soares; Maria de Andrade m. 1651 Caniço Manuel Dias Saldanha, son of Pedro > Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques, they had: > *1.9. Matias de Andrad*e m 1691 Caniço. Francisca de Nóbrega, dau of > Gabriel de Nóbrega and Maria Jorge., > > > * The genealogy of King Henrique II, of Castille, El de Las mercedes, is > well known. It's on geneall and on more sites. He is also a descendant of D. > Afonso Henriques, 1st King of Portugal. > > > Regards, > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:06 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Miguel.... >> >> Corrections made already. Thank you very much. >> >> About Frutuoso Pires, i got their names from their marriage certificate >> when it was available in NESOS. >> >> I would love to receive from you the ancestry of Matias de Andrada. Will >> be >> looking forward to that. Thank you >> >> Leandro >> >> >> In a message dated 12/10/2009 5:25:17 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Leandro, >> >> Since I have to start somewhere here are my suggestions of corrections: >> >> Gabriel de Nóbrega married Francisca d'Ocanha and not Francisca de Cunha >> - >> It makes all the difference, the D'OCanhas orginate in João d'Ocanha, >> Escudeiro. It was one of the first families to settle in Madeira. Minor >> nobility, of Spanish origin. But they very early linked with the Câmaras, >> with Henriques Alemão, etc. check HHN, "Canhas." >> >> Mundos de Nóbrega and not Mendo de Nóbrega. It also makes all the >> difference, since he is probably the only Mundos of all history of >> Madeira >> and of Portugal. His name could be Edmundo, but he is known as Mundos. He >> is >> José Fernandes', as well as Cece's and mine too (and also other in this >> list) direct ancestor. In José's case "directissimo", since it comes via >> his >> mother. In mine through a maternal, gg. mother. >> >> Leonor Marchena and not Lenor Machina. (I had a discussion about this >> Marchena in this list w+ith prima Pat, long ago, if I am not wrong) >> >> And one question - how do you know that Maria Tello married with Frutuoso >> Pires, was a Maria Telo de Meneses? >> >> I mean she may be, she most probably is, but in António Fernandes CL >> marriage with Catarina Fernandes >> ( I have the document, and am a direct descendant) ) she appears only as >> Maria Tello. >> About Frutuoso Pires I am convinced he is Pires de Canha, or Pires >> d'Ocanha. >> Just intuition and because of the witness Francisco Martins de Canha and >> Hilário Rodrigues (another Canha in disguise, IMO)- Francisco martions de >> Canha was a descedant of João Pires de Canha. Check geneall. They copied >> it >> from HHN. So it's bound to be right. >> >> If you're interested will try to send you the ascendancy of Matias de >> Andrada (you already have him) , who links with the Noronhas of Caniço, >> and >> with Alfonso Henriques. Conde de Noroña y Gijón. (A colourful character, >> attacked Cascais, the famous Portuguese cosmopolitan tourist resort (The >> Portuguese Cannes or Nice). Was in war for years with his half-brother, >> who >> happened to be the King of Spain. Almost won the war. But finally lost it >> and was sent into exile to France. He lost his title, fortune, position, >> and >> he and his wife , Isabel of Portugal (illegitimate daughter of a >> Portuguese >> King) etc. led a life of poverty until their deaths. It was not a small >> loss >> since he was probably the second most powerful man in Spain and the chief >> of >> a considerable part of the titled nobility. >> >> His sons, because of their kinship with the Kin of Portugal all went to >> Portugal. Where they received nobility titles and married into the >> highest >> nobility. Since then, among the old genealogists, there is saying "quem >> não >> tem sangue de Noronha, não é da nobreza a valer." Who has no Noronha >> blood >> is not from the real nobility." Whatever. Our times are more democratic. >> But >> it's worth remembering the social and historical importance the Noronhas >> had. They were Vice-Roys in the Portuguese India, Counts of this and >> that, >> Marquis, Bishops, and had the right to use "Dom" before their name. (Dom >> is >> a short word for Dominus, in latin, Lord or Sir). So to sum up, after the >> Royal House there was the House of the Noronhas. >> And then,hmmmmm, the others. >> >> >> >> regards, >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:40 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > hey Miguel, >> > >> > you are MORE THAN WELCOME to make suggestions and add new info. >> Actually, >> > not only you but all our cousins from the forum, which im so proud to >> be >> > related to. These cyber space is quite nice actually, it feels like a >> big >> > family. Thank you for your compliments and im looking forward to hear >> from >> > you >> > all. >> > >> > Leandro >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 06/12/2009 17:30:40 Romance Standard Time, >> > [email protected] writes: >> > >> > Hi Leandro, >> > >> > >> > Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - >> it >> > shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't >> mind >> > if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? >> > Some >> > I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and >> documents. >> > >> > Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to >> > significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. >> > >> > Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was >> > Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the >> founding >> > fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel >> de >> > Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). >> It >> > seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since >> it's >> > medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL >> specialists >> > who >> > were these Freitas. >> > >> > Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz >> > "probably" >> > belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. >> But >> > I >> > don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they >> > descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. >> > Fernando. >> > (I was never able to confirm this title) >> > >> > Well, >> > >> > Once again congratulations and >> > >> > regards, >> > >> > >> > Miguel >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > [email protected] >> > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website >> > > >> > > hey guys, >> > > >> > > especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, >> > > >> > > I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ >> > > (http://teles.tribalpages.com) >> > > >> > > and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in >> that >> > way >> > > would be easier to follow p how close we are related. >> > > >> > > let me know what you guys think >> > > >> > > thank u >> > > >> > > leandro >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> > > [email protected] writes: >> > > >> > > Lou, >> > > >> > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever >> be. >> > For >> > > us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally >> > expected >> > > names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if >> not >> > > all >> > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many >> people. >> > > >> > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from >> > the >> > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also >> have >> > > Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As >> we >> > know >> > > there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de >> Sousa, >> > > Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple >> at >> > all, >> > > because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three >> > types). >> > > >> > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic >> taken >> > from >> > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a >> very >> > > ancient Portuguese family. >> > > >> > > >> > > Well, I hope I was of some help, >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > >> > > Miguel >> > > >> > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his >> marriage >> > to >> > > Maria Lopes? >> > > >> > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo >> as >> > > ascendant. >> > > >> > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected] >> > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn >> mode >> > > > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he >> is >> > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco >> Rodrigues >> > > > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) >> > > > >> > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter >> Maria >> > > Lopes >> > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book >> #454, >> > fl >> > > > 81) >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > Lou >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > From: [email protected] >> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >> > > > Castro Henriques >> > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM >> > > > To: [email protected] >> > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION >> > > > >> > > > Hello Lu, >> > > > >> > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean >> > > > typical names from these times. >> > > > >> > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? >> > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. >> Any >> > > Drummond >> > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or >> > > > daughter >> > > ? >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > Miguel >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III >> <[email protected]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > All, >> > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am >> sending >> > > > > them >> > > > out >> > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or >> hints >> > > > > are appreciated. >> > > > > >> > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar >> de >> > > Baixo >> > > > > >> > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded >> > > > > >> > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 >> > > > > >> > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 >> > > > > >> > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 >> > > > > >> > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 >> > > > > >> > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco >> > > > > >> > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 >> > > > > >> > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is >> welcomed. >> > > > > >> > > > > Lou >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > the >> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: >> > 12/05/09 >> > > 08:13:00 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject >> > and the body of the message >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Hello Mary, It's a very ancient town, from the time of the Romans (AD) and before it was a celtic town, and before that a paleolithic settlement. It was there that was born Nun'Álvares Pereira, our national hero, recently sanctified by Pope Benedictus. It's on the central region of Portugal, on the Castelo Branco area. You could also call it, a La Moisés Espírito Santo, "centrã" ; - )) Try this: http://www.mapadeportugal.net/localidade.asp?n=certa&c=0502&t=gr I have links two or three at least to the Mata line, through the Caiados, and through Manuel Martins and Ana Baptista (Spínola), etc. The Matas were into chivalry. Much before thus recent crave or craze for gothic novels they were - 500 hundreds beefor, full unto it. They, the Matas from Gaula, who was a Da Vinci Code area avant la lettre, named one of their scions: Galaz. Galaz da Mata. Galaz like Sir Galahad, of course. But then you have Lançarote, which is the Portuguese version of Lancelot.. The spirit of Knighthood was on full swing those days. Fortunately, I may add. Graciously too, I hope, with long term effects ; -)) Regrads, Miguel On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello Miguel: > > The information on the Mata family is interesting to me too as I can track > my line to Gaula and the Mata line(s). I tried to find a reference to the > location of Certa online but cannot. Where is it located? > > Thank you > > Mary da Silva Frost > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Leandro, Voilà: Genealogy of the Ferreiras de Noronha from Caniço - according to Morgado Pereira de Agrela, HHN nobiliário, RGMPS (Clode), TGM II. from geneall, ARM database, Alão de Morais, Felisberto Bettencourt de Miranda. 1. King Henrique II of Castille * and Elvira Iñiguez de La Vega , (from the famous and ancient Lasso de La Vega family. who among others had the Inka Garcilaso de La Vega, and the poet homonymous Garcilaso de La Vega) 1.1 Don Alfonso Henriques, Conde de Noroña e Gijón had from N.: 1.2. D. Mécia de Noronha. m. 146...João Gonçalves da Câmara, "O Porrinha", son of João Gonçalves da Câmara 1st. Capitão Donatário and Constança Rodrigues, had: 1.3. Manuel de Noronha (Poeta do Cancioneiro) and Isabel Soares Ferreira (mulher nobre de Câmara de Lobos) had: 1.4. Maria de Noronha. m.1520 João Gonçalves de Aguiar, they had 1.5. Simão Gonçalves de Noronha m. 1560 Inês Ferreira de Andrade, they had: 1.6. João Ferreira de Noronha m 1601 Caniço, Inês de Andrade. dau. Francisco de Cairos Ribeiro and Catarina Fernandes, they had: 1.7. António Ferreira m. Maria Mendes (From the Mendo Enes); Belchior Soares; Maria de Andrade m. 1651 Caniço Manuel Dias Saldanha, son of Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques, they had: *1.8. Matias de Andrad*e m 1691 Caniço. Francisca de Nóbrega, dau of Gabriel de Nóbrega and Maria Jorge., * The genealogy of King Henrique II, of Castille, El de Las mercedes, is well known. It's on geneall and on more sites. He is also a descendant of D. Afonso Henriques, 1st King of Portugal. Regards, Miguel On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:06 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Miguel.... > > Corrections made already. Thank you very much. > > About Frutuoso Pires, i got their names from their marriage certificate > when it was available in NESOS. > > I would love to receive from you the ancestry of Matias de Andrada. Will be > looking forward to that. Thank you > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 12/10/2009 5:25:17 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Leandro, > > Since I have to start somewhere here are my suggestions of corrections: > > Gabriel de Nóbrega married Francisca d'Ocanha and not Francisca de Cunha - > It makes all the difference, the D'OCanhas orginate in João d'Ocanha, > Escudeiro. It was one of the first families to settle in Madeira. Minor > nobility, of Spanish origin. But they very early linked with the Câmaras, > with Henriques Alemão, etc. check HHN, "Canhas." > > Mundos de Nóbrega and not Mendo de Nóbrega. It also makes all the > difference, since he is probably the only Mundos of all history of Madeira > and of Portugal. His name could be Edmundo, but he is known as Mundos. He > is > José Fernandes', as well as Cece's and mine too (and also other in this > list) direct ancestor. In José's case "directissimo", since it comes via > his > mother. In mine through a maternal, gg. mother. > > Leonor Marchena and not Lenor Machina. (I had a discussion about this > Marchena in this list w+ith prima Pat, long ago, if I am not wrong) > > And one question - how do you know that Maria Tello married with Frutuoso > Pires, was a Maria Telo de Meneses? > > I mean she may be, she most probably is, but in António Fernandes CL > marriage with Catarina Fernandes > ( I have the document, and am a direct descendant) ) she appears only as > Maria Tello. > About Frutuoso Pires I am convinced he is Pires de Canha, or Pires > d'Ocanha. > Just intuition and because of the witness Francisco Martins de Canha and > Hilário Rodrigues (another Canha in disguise, IMO)- Francisco martions de > Canha was a descedant of João Pires de Canha. Check geneall. They copied > it > from HHN. So it's bound to be right. > > If you're interested will try to send you the ascendancy of Matias de > Andrada (you already have him) , who links with the Noronhas of Caniço, > and > with Alfonso Henriques. Conde de Noroña y Gijón. (A colourful character, > attacked Cascais, the famous Portuguese cosmopolitan tourist resort (The > Portuguese Cannes or Nice). Was in war for years with his half-brother, > who > happened to be the King of Spain. Almost won the war. But finally lost it > and was sent into exile to France. He lost his title, fortune, position, > and > he and his wife , Isabel of Portugal (illegitimate daughter of a > Portuguese > King) etc. led a life of poverty until their deaths. It was not a small > loss > since he was probably the second most powerful man in Spain and the chief > of > a considerable part of the titled nobility. > > His sons, because of their kinship with the Kin of Portugal all went to > Portugal. Where they received nobility titles and married into the highest > nobility. Since then, among the old genealogists, there is saying "quem > não > tem sangue de Noronha, não é da nobreza a valer." Who has no Noronha blood > is not from the real nobility." Whatever. Our times are more democratic. > But > it's worth remembering the social and historical importance the Noronhas > had. They were Vice-Roys in the Portuguese India, Counts of this and that, > Marquis, Bishops, and had the right to use "Dom" before their name. (Dom > is > a short word for Dominus, in latin, Lord or Sir). So to sum up, after the > Royal House there was the House of the Noronhas. > And then,hmmmmm, the others. > > > > regards, > > Miguel > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:40 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > hey Miguel, > > > > you are MORE THAN WELCOME to make suggestions and add new info. > Actually, > > not only you but all our cousins from the forum, which im so proud to be > > related to. These cyber space is quite nice actually, it feels like a > big > > family. Thank you for your compliments and im looking forward to hear > from > > you > > all. > > > > Leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 06/12/2009 17:30:40 Romance Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Hi Leandro, > > > > > > Great job! Looks like an anthology of almost all Madeiran families - it > > shows our many connections. For the moment I'm just seeing. You won't > mind > > if I point some corrections, namely in parts that are atributed to me? > > Some > > I have new data, others I have abandoned due to new facts and > documents. > > > > Anyway a genealogical work is always a work in progress, subject to > > significant changes sometimes, to minor alterations. > > > > Where to start? Well I picked , for a start, Afonso da Mata, who was > > Escudeiro, and Isabel de Freitas. They are well known amidst the > founding > > fathers of all Gaula families. Quite recently I discovered that Isabel > de > > Freitas comes from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro (North of Portugal). > It > > seems a promising line. Yet certainly very difficult to track since > it's > > medieval. I'll try to ask in another forum to some MEDIEVAL specialists > > who > > were these Freitas. > > > > Clode says that Isabel de Freitas, bescause she was from S. Cruz > > "probably" > > belonged to the well known Freitas of Santa Cruz. It's a possibility. > But > > I > > don't know the origin of these, apart what is common knowledge . they > > descend from Gonçalo de Freitas. FCR, Monteiro. Mor do Infante D. > > Fernando. > > (I was never able to confirm this title) > > > > Well, > > > > Once again congratulations and > > > > regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > OK - now tell me how you did it?? :-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:14 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] website > > > > > > hey guys, > > > > > > especially Cece, Ed, Jeff, Lou, Zack, Jose, Pat and Zelia, > > > > > > I just updated my website: _http://teles.tribalpages.com_ > > > (http://teles.tribalpages.com) > > > > > > and put your ancestors of each of you with a coloured box, so in that > > way > > > would be easier to follow p how close we are related. > > > > > > let me know what you guys think > > > > > > thank u > > > > > > leandro > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2009 3:44:52 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > Sorry if I disturbed you. I'm in learn mode too, and will forever > be. > > For > > > us living in Portugal they are quite normal, I would say totally > > expected > > > names from that time, place and circunstances. And most of them, if > not > > > all > > > (Frutuoso may have disappeared) are still used today by many people. > > > > > > So Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from Ribeira Brava. He must be from > > the > > > Homens known to have lived in that place. That's a start. I also > have > > > Homens from RB and they certainly are all from the same family. As > we > > know > > > there are four main sources for the name Homem . either Homem de > Sousa, > > > Homem de Gouveia, Homem d'El-Rei and simply Homem ( not so simple at > > all, > > > because a simple Homem may have the name of one of the other three > > types). > > > > > > In any case the Homem (meaning Man, actually it's a toponymic taken > > from > > > people living close to the river Homem) or Homens (plural) are a > very > > > ancient Portuguese family. > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope I was of some help, > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > PS Who were Álvaro Rodirgues parents? And the witness of his > marriage > > to > > > Maria Lopes? > > > > > > Lopes being a patronymic,from Lopo, at one point Maria has a Lopo > as > > > ascendant. > > > > > > Feel free to ask any question you'd like to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Lou Abreu III <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > Forgive me, the names seem strange to me, I am still in learn > mode > > > > and have not seen these names on the list that often if at all. > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem is not listed has having a parish, he > is > > > > mentioned in his daughter Ines martins marriage to Francisco > Rodrigues > > > > Duarte on 16 Sept 1614, Ribeira Brava (book #389,Fl 153) > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes and Branca Afonco are mentioned in their daughter > Maria > > > Lopes > > > > marriage to Alvaro Rodrigues 21 Feb 1569, Ponta do Sol (book > #454, > > fl > > > > 81) > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > > > > Castro Henriques > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:35 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] GROUP QUESTION > > > > > > > > Hello Lu, > > > > > > > > Strange ones, how come? They all seem quite normal ones - I mean > > > > typical names from these times. > > > > > > > > Francisco Gonçalves Homem is from what parish? > > > > and Domingos Nunes m, Branca Afonso? She could be a Drummond. Any > > > Drummond > > > > or Escórcio witness in her marriage certificate, or his son or > > > > daughter > > > ? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Lou Abreu III > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > I have the following that appear to be dead ends so I am > sending > > > > > them > > > > out > > > > > to the group to see if anyone has these names, any help or hints > > > > > are appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > Gaspar Dias + Ana Rodrigues dates not recorded, dwelling: Lugar > de > > > Baixo > > > > > > > > > > Antao Serradas + Maria Rodrigues dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > Goncalo Dias + Margarida Rodrigues Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > > > Gregorio Sardinha + Isabel Fernandes dates not recorded > > > > > > > > > > Catarina Dias + Baltasar Fernandes Ponta do Sol? Prior to 1568 > > > > > > > > > > Frutuoso Enes + Cecilia Frenandes ca. 1570 > > > > > > > > > > Apolonia Dias + Pedro Goncalos Ponta do Sol May 12 1573 > > > > > > > > > > Joao Pires + Maria Fernandes Ponta do Sol Nov 29 1580 > > > > > > > > > > Domingos Anes + Branca Afonco > > > > > > > > > > Francisco Goncalves Homem + Isabel Pereira ca. 1590 > > > > > > > > > > As you can see I have some strange ones so anything is welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: > > 12/05/09 > > > 08:13:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >