Agnes Varda's movies are delightful. She's almost eighty but still on the move. And yesterday was the anniversary of the Archi-famous Portuguese Manuel de Oliveira, the oldest film director of the world: 101 ! yes 101 years , and as usual is thinking about his next movie. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Miguel, > > Thank you and Luis...This is very interesting... > > I need to read-up on this Agnes Varda, as well as locate something on the > titulo de Liras Vardas. > > But for now, I need to start wrapping Xmas gifts...so, "I'll be back," > later today. ;-))... > > Abs. Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:01:56 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Fwd: Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > No way. It's an European (roumanian, I think) name, like the famous French > moviemaker Agnes Varda. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Luis Beal <[email protected]> > Date: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 7:34 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > To: [email protected] > > > You are welcome. I don't know if Vardas is a variation of Vareda. I'd say > that's a question for either Miguel or Paulo :) > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 9:39:57 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > Luis, > > Once again Thank You so much... I didn't have any info on Joao Barreto > d'Amil, who married Antonia da Silva, nor his second marriage to D. Maria > da > Candelaria. > > Agueda Cesar and Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira are my direct line > ancestors. When I was researching them using Conego Vaz' publication > "Barretos, Do Arco, I didn't follow through with listing Joao Barreto de > Amil, though now I do see him listed along with Agueda as being siblings... > > Thank you for pointing out Joao... I'll update my file to include him and > his spouses. > > Titulo: Liras Vardas ? Do you know if Varda/s is a spelling variation of > Vareda? > > Abs, Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:58:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > Ha you got me there. He is not in Barretos da Ponta do Sol but in just > Barretos. > This record lists: > Joao Barreto and Ana Cesar daughter of Andre Cesar and Isabel de Sequeira - > Titulo de Cesar. > Children: > Andre Cesar de Andrade married 1653 to D. Antonia de Valdavesso; > Joao Barreto d'Amil, married 1 in 1656 to D. Antonia da Silva, 2 in 1660 in > Canhas to D. Maria da Candelaria; > Agueda Cesar married 1662 to Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira, titulo de > Liras Vardas. > > No mention of Agostinho. > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 6:36:40 PM > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > Luis, > > This will be the last one for awhile...;-) > > Barretos do Ponta do Sol: > > Interested in (2)Joao Barreto son of (1)Joao Barreto and Isabel de Amil. > (2) married in the Calheta on 20 Feb 1629 to Ana Cesar. > (2) was also married to Maria da Camara daughter of Bras de Amil and > Catarina da Camara. > > I have three children for (2)Joao and Ana - Agostinho; Agueda and Andre > with > surnames of Cesar de Andrade for Agosinho and Andre, but for Agueda the > surname is Cesar Abreu Andrade... > > Interested if there's a reference made in the pages that you have for the > different surnames that the children used... > > Appreciate your help... > Pat > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Pat, That's it. Thanks. No mention of Catarina Anes Afonso. Just of Catarina Anes (not Nunes, as it appears below per mistake). Miguel On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Cece and Miguel, > > Here's what's in HHH Pat > > > Per HHH Titulo - Acciaioli > "Nº 1 - Simão Acciaioli, Florentino de nação e primeiro que passou > a esta Ilha, como d´os documentos referidos e d´outros muitosconsta, > era filho(1) de Zenobio Accioioli, o Moço, e de sua mulher Catharina > Delphina, aquele a quem o Imperador Carlos 5º comcedeu os privile- > gios que vimos n´o documento referido; viveu n´esta Ilha para onde > veio pel-os annos 1515, segundo se deixa ver d´a certidão que trouxe, já > allegada; fez assento n´esta Cidade, onde fabricou casas nobres n´a > rua, que d´elle conserva o nome instituio um morgado com uma Capella > dedicada á Natividade d´a Senhora, ná sua Quinta, que se sagrou n´o > anno de .... foi fundador outrosi d´o capitulo velho d´o Convento > de São Francisco d´esta Cidade, de Nossa Senhora d´a Piedade, para seu > enterro; n´elle jaz com sua mulher, defronte d´o altar, em cuja campa se > lê um e outro nome; e n´as ilhargas d´a dicta sepultura as de seus filhos > morreu em 15 de fevereiro de 1544 annos. > > Casou com Catharina Pimentel, filha de Pedro Rodrigues Pimentel(2) > fidalgo n´os Livros d´El Rei, d´os Pimenteis de Torres Novas de Por- > tugal, e de sua mulher Izabel Ferreira Drummond, que era filha de > Gaspar Gonçalves Ferreira e de Catharina Nunes, em titulo de Ferreiras > d´a Costa Grande, § 2, Nº 2, fol.: ....., a qual falleceu em 12 de Ou- > tubro de 1541 annos. > (2) Na mesma margem externa está o seguinte teór : (2) Este Pedro > Rodrigues > Pimentel passou á Ilha d´a Madeira pelos annos 1460, sendo filho de Rodrigo > Pimen-tel que viveu em Tores Novaes, e de sua mulher D. Catharina de Brito, > como vi p’ uma Justificação tirada em 1547." > > > > > > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cece Camara" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:33:37 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > I'm getting nervous that I may have messed something up here and haven't > had > a chance to pull all the sources yet...but this is what I have in my tree: > > The Catherina Anes Afonso that is married to Pedro Gonçalves Camacho is the > daughter of Catherine Annes Drummond and Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira (and > thus > grandaughter of Joao Escocio). > > Make any better sense now? Or do I neeed to go and find my mistake??? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scot Austin > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > Cece, > > > > Can you find a reference about Pedro Gonçalves Camacho and Catarina > > Anes in the Acciolis title of HHN? > > > > There is in fact a Catarina Anes dau. of João Escócio, but it's > > another, an homonimous of the one geneall refers as wife of Pedro > Gonçalves Camacho. > > > I show her married to Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira > > Scot > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> Miguel, > >> Re your note below about : > >> "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about Catarina Anes > >> Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho connection through Catarina to > >> the Drummonds is not real.It is one of geneall flops. She was not a > >> Drummond. > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think." > >> > >> I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter > >> Isabel - and neither from Geneall. > >> My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras > >> Drummond & Lordello geneologies). > >> So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do > >> you have to disprove this? > >> Cece > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > >> Castro Henriques > >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >> > >> Pat, > >> > >> Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de > >> Andrade in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones > >> I'm looking for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who > >> married in 1650 Gaspar de Moura de Mendonça. > >> My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, > >> becoming a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would > >> be ostracized for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very > >> least let one year go by. > >> > >> There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. > >> > >> Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO > >> 1651, parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some > >> Barreto. And there were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or > Tuim) around in S. > >> Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you > >> know very well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the > >> Barretos. > >> > >> . > >> > >> The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about > >> > >> > >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho > >> > >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of > >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. > >> > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> > >> Miguel > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Miguel, > >>> > >>> I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira > >>> parents of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. > >>> > >>> Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... > >>> Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. > >>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via > >>> John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate > >>> that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). > >>> > >>> John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel > >>> Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). > >>> > >>> Pat > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > >>> Pacific > >>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >>> > >>> > >>>> Does anyone has any info about this couple: > >>>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? > >>> > >>> Thanks in advance for any news. > >>> > >>> Miguel > >>> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Miguel, Thank you and Luis...This is very interesting... I need to read-up on this Agnes Varda, as well as locate something on the titulo de Liras Vardas. But for now, I need to start wrapping Xmas gifts...so, "I'll be back," later today. ;-))... Abs. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:01:56 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Fwd: Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) No way. It's an European (roumanian, I think) name, like the famous French moviemaker Agnes Varda. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Luis Beal <[email protected]> Date: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) To: [email protected] You are welcome. I don't know if Vardas is a variation of Vareda. I'd say that's a question for either Miguel or Paulo :) Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 9:39:57 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Luis, Once again Thank You so much... I didn't have any info on Joao Barreto d'Amil, who married Antonia da Silva, nor his second marriage to D. Maria da Candelaria. Agueda Cesar and Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira are my direct line ancestors. When I was researching them using Conego Vaz' publication "Barretos, Do Arco, I didn't follow through with listing Joao Barreto de Amil, though now I do see him listed along with Agueda as being siblings... Thank you for pointing out Joao... I'll update my file to include him and his spouses. Titulo: Liras Vardas ? Do you know if Varda/s is a spelling variation of Vareda? Abs, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:58:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Ha you got me there. He is not in Barretos da Ponta do Sol but in just Barretos. This record lists: Joao Barreto and Ana Cesar daughter of Andre Cesar and Isabel de Sequeira - Titulo de Cesar. Children: Andre Cesar de Andrade married 1653 to D. Antonia de Valdavesso; Joao Barreto d'Amil, married 1 in 1656 to D. Antonia da Silva, 2 in 1660 in Canhas to D. Maria da Candelaria; Agueda Cesar married 1662 to Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira, titulo de Liras Vardas. No mention of Agostinho. Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 6:36:40 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Luis, This will be the last one for awhile...;-) Barretos do Ponta do Sol: Interested in (2)Joao Barreto son of (1)Joao Barreto and Isabel de Amil. (2) married in the Calheta on 20 Feb 1629 to Ana Cesar. (2) was also married to Maria da Camara daughter of Bras de Amil and Catarina da Camara. I have three children for (2)Joao and Ana - Agostinho; Agueda and Andre with surnames of Cesar de Andrade for Agosinho and Andre, but for Agueda the surname is Cesar Abreu Andrade... Interested if there's a reference made in the pages that you have for the different surnames that the children used... Appreciate your help... Pat ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Cece and Miguel, Here's what's in HHH Pat Per HHH Titulo - Acciaioli "Nº 1 - Simão Acciaioli, Florentino de nação e primeiro que passou a esta Ilha, como d´os documentos referidos e d´outros muitosconsta, era filho(1) de Zenobio Accioioli, o Moço, e de sua mulher Catharina Delphina, aquele a quem o Imperador Carlos 5º comcedeu os privile- gios que vimos n´o documento referido; viveu n´esta Ilha para onde veio pel-os annos 1515, segundo se deixa ver d´a certidão que trouxe, já allegada; fez assento n´esta Cidade, onde fabricou casas nobres n´a rua, que d´elle conserva o nome instituio um morgado com uma Capella dedicada á Natividade d´a Senhora, ná sua Quinta, que se sagrou n´o anno de .... foi fundador outrosi d´o capitulo velho d´o Convento de São Francisco d´esta Cidade, de Nossa Senhora d´a Piedade, para seu enterro; n´elle jaz com sua mulher, defronte d´o altar, em cuja campa se lê um e outro nome; e n´as ilhargas d´a dicta sepultura as de seus filhos morreu em 15 de fevereiro de 1544 annos. Casou com Catharina Pimentel, filha de Pedro Rodrigues Pimentel(2) fidalgo n´os Livros d´El Rei, d´os Pimenteis de Torres Novas de Por- tugal, e de sua mulher Izabel Ferreira Drummond, que era filha de Gaspar Gonçalves Ferreira e de Catharina Nunes, em titulo de Ferreiras d´a Costa Grande, § 2, Nº 2, fol.: ....., a qual falleceu em 12 de Ou- tubro de 1541 annos. (2) Na mesma margem externa está o seguinte teór : (2) Este Pedro Rodrigues Pimentel passou á Ilha d´a Madeira pelos annos 1460, sendo filho de Rodrigo Pimen-tel que viveu em Tores Novaes, e de sua mulher D. Catharina de Brito, como vi p’ uma Justificação tirada em 1547." Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cece Camara" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:33:37 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho I'm getting nervous that I may have messed something up here and haven't had a chance to pull all the sources yet...but this is what I have in my tree: The Catherina Anes Afonso that is married to Pedro Gonçalves Camacho is the daughter of Catherine Annes Drummond and Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira (and thus grandaughter of Joao Escocio). Make any better sense now? Or do I neeed to go and find my mistake??? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scot Austin Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Cece, > > Can you find a reference about Pedro Gonçalves Camacho and Catarina > Anes in the Acciolis title of HHN? > > There is in fact a Catarina Anes dau. of João Escócio, but it's > another, an homonimous of the one geneall refers as wife of Pedro Gonçalves Camacho. > I show her married to Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira Scot > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Miguel, >> Re your note below about : >> "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about Catarina Anes >> Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho connection through Catarina to >> the Drummonds is not real.It is one of geneall flops. She was not a >> Drummond. >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the >> Pimentel, I think." >> >> I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter >> Isabel - and neither from Geneall. >> My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras >> Drummond & Lordello geneologies). >> So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do >> you have to disprove this? >> Cece >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >> Castro Henriques >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho >> >> Pat, >> >> Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de >> Andrade in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones >> I'm looking for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who >> married in 1650 Gaspar de Moura de Mendonça. >> My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, >> becoming a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would >> be ostracized for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very >> least let one year go by. >> >> There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. >> >> Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO >> 1651, parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some >> Barreto. And there were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or Tuim) around in S. >> Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you >> know very well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the >> Barretos. >> >> . >> >> The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about >> >> >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> >> >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho >> >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. >> >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the >> Pimentel, I think. >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> >>> Miguel, >>> >>> I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira >>> parents of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. >>> >>> Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... >>> Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. >>> >>> Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via >>> John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate >>> that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). >>> >>> John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel >>> Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). >>> >>> Pat >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" >>> <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>> Pacific >>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho >>> >>> >>>> Does anyone has any info about this couple: >>>> >>> Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any news. >>> >>> Miguel >>>

Cece, It makes sense, but sorry to say it's not accurate. Catarina Anes Afonso does not appear in any of the major Madeiran Drummond's genealogies. (HHN, Meneses Vaz, Pereira de Agrela). Neither in iother sources. Look, I may be wrong, but to my knowledge she only appears like you say on geneall, which quotes the ADNB (one book about the Bettencourt's origins, that has some mistakes and this - I was informed by a very competent genealogist is one of them.). OK. You saw it in Felisberto? That would ,be matter for consideration. Where? and in the Acciolis title in HHN? (In the last one I can not find it.) Maybe you made some confusion or you followed somebody's else confusion? (No problem. We are all the time making confusions in genealogy or following people who made these confuions centuries ago or recently. genealogy is complex, tricky. Names are very similar. In one doc. they appear one way then in another in another way, Genealogies, even by the leading genealogists are tricky, Misleading, Erroneous. And well established mistakes last for centuries. And I think this connection of the Camachos with the Drummonds is one of them. regards, Miguel On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm getting nervous that I may have messed something up here and haven't > had > a chance to pull all the sources yet...but this is what I have in my tree: > > The Catherina Anes Afonso that is married to Pedro Gonçalves Camacho is the > daughter of Catherine Annes Drummond and Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira (and > thus > grandaughter of Joao Escocio). > > Make any better sense now? Or do I neeed to go and find my mistake??? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scot Austin > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > Cece, > > > > Can you find a reference about Pedro Gonçalves Camacho and Catarina > > Anes in the Acciolis title of HHN? > > > > There is in fact a Catarina Anes dau. of João Escócio, but it's > > another, an homonimous of the one geneall refers as wife of Pedro > Gonçalves Camacho. > > > I show her married to Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira > > Scot > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> Miguel, > >> Re your note below about : > >> "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about Catarina Anes > >> Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho connection through Catarina to > >> the Drummonds is not real.It is one of geneall flops. She was not a > >> Drummond. > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think." > >> > >> I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter > >> Isabel - and neither from Geneall. > >> My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras > >> Drummond & Lordello geneologies). > >> So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do > >> you have to disprove this? > >> Cece > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > >> Castro Henriques > >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >> > >> Pat, > >> > >> Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de > >> Andrade in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones > >> I'm looking for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who > >> married in 1650 Gaspar de Moura de Mendonça. > >> My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, > >> becoming a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would > >> be ostracized for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very > >> least let one year go by. > >> > >> There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. > >> > >> Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO > >> 1651, parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some > >> Barreto. And there were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or > Tuim) around in S. > >> Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you > >> know very well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the > >> Barretos. > >> > >> . > >> > >> The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about > >> > >> > >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho > >> > >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of > >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. > >> > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> > >> Miguel > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Miguel, > >>> > >>> I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira > >>> parents of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. > >>> > >>> Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... > >>> Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. > >>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via > >>> John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate > >>> that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). > >>> > >>> John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel > >>> Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). > >>> > >>> Pat > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > >>> Pacific > >>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >>> > >>> > >>>> Does anyone has any info about this couple: > >>>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? > >>> > >>> Thanks in advance for any news. > >>> > >>> Miguel > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found > >> in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.99/2553 - Release Date: > >> 12/10/09 07:36:00 > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this > incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.102/2556 - Release Date: 12/11/09 > 10:06:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It seems that Mary is set on the right track. Porto da Cruz, Santa Cruz and Gaula are all contiguous. The names Nóbrega and Freitas are typical from Gaula, where you have the Freitas de Gaula and the Barretos from Duarte Barreto. Estêvão is probably a g.son of Duarte Barreto, or closely related to him. Miguel On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > I forgot to mention that this Estevao has a brother who used the Fernades > name - so we're lookiing pretty good as far as name matches go!! Estevao's > siblings were Gaspar Fernandes (born 1616) who married Maria de Freitas in > Porto da Cruz in 1638, Simao Barreto (born 1623) who had children with > Isabel Dias in Porto da Cruz starting about 1655 (don't have their > marriage), and a sister Maria Barreto (born 1627)-nothing further on her. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cece Camara > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:55 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto > > I do have this family in my tree- Joao Barreto, married in 1611 to Catarina > Dias and I do have 4 children listed for them - and one of them is named > Estevao...so we could very well be on the right track here. Unfortunately, > I > never took this down any further than this - so I do not have Estevao's > marriage. I have him listed as Estavao Barreto as I only have his year of > birth from his baptismal record and don't really know which name he went > by. > As it says about 1618 - it means it was at the point in my research where I > was writing down the baptisms of everyone in Porto da Cruz to try to tie > them all together in my tree, so I do not have the actually record for him > - > although I may have for his 3 siblings as they all have actual baptismal > dates. > If you believe this is the correct Estevao, (son of Joao Barreto and > Catherine Dias) then I can give you one more generation. His paternal > grandparents are Gaspar FERNANDES & Joana BARRETO(and my directs as well). > His maternal grandparents are Antonio Fernandes de Vivieros & Maria Tomas. > And unfortunately, this is the last of either of their lines that I > have...so if anyone knows who Antonio Fernandes de Vivieros & Maria Tomas > parents are - or whom Gaspar FERNANDES & Joana BARRETO's parents are - > please let us know!! > Cece > > > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Luis Beal > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto > > In the Barretos do Porto da Cruz there is one Joao Barreto, married in 1611 > to Catarina Dias, daughter of Antonio Fernandes e Maria Tomas. He is the > son > of Gaspar Fernandes and Joana Barreto and lived in Porto da Cruz around > 1580. > There is no mention of children but he has 3 brothers and a sister listed. > Pedro Barreto and Guiomar Lourenco, married 1610; Simao Barreto married > first Maria Dias, then Leonor de Freitas; Gaspar Fernandes and Maria > Figueiredo, married 1621; Madalena Barreto and Andre' Lourenco, married > 1602. > > Don't know if that fits your family. > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 4:56:29 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto > > Hello Mary, > > If his daus. used Freitas e de Nóbrega he is a Barreto from Gaula. I bet. > So he is a descendant of Duarte Barreto ( a g. son probably) the first > Barreto from Gaula. Clode says he was not noble. Gouveia e Freitas says he > definitely was. A Fidalgo. Whatever the case he was wealthy- "abastado > proprietário - and from him came all sorts of Barretos from Gaula and some > went to S. Gonçalo and elsewhere. In the book Famílias de Gaula these > Barretos are said to be one of the old families from Gaula. > I'm also descended from them. > > > Miguel > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Mary Frost > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Hello Luis: > > > > I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know > > where or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he > > was married to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to > > adulthood and marry in Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the > > surname Fernandes and his daughters used the surnames of de Freitas > > and de Nobrega. > > > > Any info would be enlightening. > > > > Thank you > > > > Mary da Silva Frost > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this > incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2559 - Release Date: 12/11/09 > 19:37:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this > incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2559 - Release Date: 12/11/09 > 19:37:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

No way. It's an European (roumanian, I think) name, like the famous French moviemaker Agnes Varda. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Luis Beal <[email protected]> Date: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) To: [email protected] You are welcome. I don't know if Vardas is a variation of Vareda. I'd say that's a question for either Miguel or Paulo :) Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 9:39:57 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Luis, Once again Thank You so much... I didn't have any info on Joao Barreto d'Amil, who married Antonia da Silva, nor his second marriage to D. Maria da Candelaria. Agueda Cesar and Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira are my direct line ancestors. When I was researching them using Conego Vaz' publication "Barretos, Do Arco, I didn't follow through with listing Joao Barreto de Amil, though now I do see him listed along with Agueda as being siblings... Thank you for pointing out Joao... I'll update my file to include him and his spouses. Titulo: Liras Vardas ? Do you know if Varda/s is a spelling variation of Vareda? Abs, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:58:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Ha you got me there. He is not in Barretos da Ponta do Sol but in just Barretos. This record lists: Joao Barreto and Ana Cesar daughter of Andre Cesar and Isabel de Sequeira - Titulo de Cesar. Children: Andre Cesar de Andrade married 1653 to D. Antonia de Valdavesso; Joao Barreto d'Amil, married 1 in 1656 to D. Antonia da Silva, 2 in 1660 in Canhas to D. Maria da Candelaria; Agueda Cesar married 1662 to Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira, titulo de Liras Vardas. No mention of Agostinho. Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 6:36:40 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Luis, This will be the last one for awhile...;-) Barretos do Ponta do Sol: Interested in (2)Joao Barreto son of (1)Joao Barreto and Isabel de Amil. (2) married in the Calheta on 20 Feb 1629 to Ana Cesar. (2) was also married to Maria da Camara daughter of Bras de Amil and Catarina da Camara. I have three children for (2)Joao and Ana - Agostinho; Agueda and Andre with surnames of Cesar de Andrade for Agosinho and Andre, but for Agueda the surname is Cesar Abreu Andrade... Interested if there's a reference made in the pages that you have for the different surnames that the children used... Appreciate your help... Pat ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm getting nervous that I may have messed something up here and haven't had a chance to pull all the sources yet...but this is what I have in my tree: The Catherina Anes Afonso that is married to Pedro Gonçalves Camacho is the daughter of Catherine Annes Drummond and Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira (and thus grandaughter of Joao Escocio). Make any better sense now? Or do I neeed to go and find my mistake??? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scot Austin Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Cece, > > Can you find a reference about Pedro Gonçalves Camacho and Catarina > Anes in the Acciolis title of HHN? > > There is in fact a Catarina Anes dau. of João Escócio, but it's > another, an homonimous of the one geneall refers as wife of Pedro Gonçalves Camacho. > I show her married to Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira Scot > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Miguel, >> Re your note below about : >> "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about Catarina Anes >> Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho connection through Catarina to >> the Drummonds is not real.It is one of geneall flops. She was not a >> Drummond. >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the >> Pimentel, I think." >> >> I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter >> Isabel - and neither from Geneall. >> My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras >> Drummond & Lordello geneologies). >> So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do >> you have to disprove this? >> Cece >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de >> Castro Henriques >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho >> >> Pat, >> >> Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de >> Andrade in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones >> I'm looking for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who >> married in 1650 Gaspar de Moura de Mendonça. >> My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, >> becoming a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would >> be ostracized for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very >> least let one year go by. >> >> There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. >> >> Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO >> 1651, parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some >> Barreto. And there were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or Tuim) around in S. >> Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you >> know very well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the >> Barretos. >> >> . >> >> The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about >> >> >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> >> >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho >> >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. >> >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the >> Pimentel, I think. >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> Miguel >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> >>> Miguel, >>> >>> I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira >>> parents of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. >>> >>> Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... >>> Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. >>> >>> Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via >>> John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate >>> that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). >>> >>> John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel >>> Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). >>> >>> Pat >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" >>> <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >>> Pacific >>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho >>> >>> >>>> Does anyone has any info about this couple: >>>> >>> Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any news. >>> >>> Miguel >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found >> in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.99/2553 - Release Date: >> 12/10/09 07:36:00 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.102/2556 - Release Date: 12/11/09 10:06:00

I forgot to mention that this Estevao has a brother who used the Fernades name - so we're lookiing pretty good as far as name matches go!! Estevao's siblings were Gaspar Fernandes (born 1616) who married Maria de Freitas in Porto da Cruz in 1638, Simao Barreto (born 1623) who had children with Isabel Dias in Porto da Cruz starting about 1655 (don't have their marriage), and a sister Maria Barreto (born 1627)-nothing further on her. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cece Camara Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto I do have this family in my tree- Joao Barreto, married in 1611 to Catarina Dias and I do have 4 children listed for them - and one of them is named Estevao...so we could very well be on the right track here. Unfortunately, I never took this down any further than this - so I do not have Estevao's marriage. I have him listed as Estavao Barreto as I only have his year of birth from his baptismal record and don't really know which name he went by. As it says about 1618 - it means it was at the point in my research where I was writing down the baptisms of everyone in Porto da Cruz to try to tie them all together in my tree, so I do not have the actually record for him - although I may have for his 3 siblings as they all have actual baptismal dates. If you believe this is the correct Estevao, (son of Joao Barreto and Catherine Dias) then I can give you one more generation. His paternal grandparents are Gaspar FERNANDES & Joana BARRETO(and my directs as well). His maternal grandparents are Antonio Fernandes de Vivieros & Maria Tomas. And unfortunately, this is the last of either of their lines that I have...so if anyone knows who Antonio Fernandes de Vivieros & Maria Tomas parents are - or whom Gaspar FERNANDES & Joana BARRETO's parents are - please let us know!! Cece From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Luis Beal Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto In the Barretos do Porto da Cruz there is one Joao Barreto, married in 1611 to Catarina Dias, daughter of Antonio Fernandes e Maria Tomas. He is the son of Gaspar Fernandes and Joana Barreto and lived in Porto da Cruz around 1580. There is no mention of children but he has 3 brothers and a sister listed. Pedro Barreto and Guiomar Lourenco, married 1610; Simao Barreto married first Maria Dias, then Leonor de Freitas; Gaspar Fernandes and Maria Figueiredo, married 1621; Madalena Barreto and Andre' Lourenco, married 1602.   Don't know if that fits your family. Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 4:56:29 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Hello Mary, If his daus. used Freitas e de Nóbrega he is a Barreto from Gaula. I bet. So he is a descendant of Duarte Barreto ( a g. son probably) the first Barreto from Gaula. Clode says he was not noble. Gouveia e Freitas says he definitely was. A Fidalgo. Whatever the case he was wealthy- "abastado proprietário -  and from him came all sorts of Barretos from Gaula and some went to S. Gonçalo and elsewhere. In the book Famílias de Gaula these Barretos are said to be one of the old families from Gaula. I'm also descended from them. Miguel On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello Luis: > > I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know > where or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he > was married to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to > adulthood and marry in Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the > surname Fernandes and his daughters used the surnames of de Freitas > and de Nobrega. > > Any info would be enlightening. > > Thank you > > Mary da Silva Frost > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2559 - Release Date: 12/11/09 19:37:00 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2559 - Release Date: 12/11/09 19:37:00

I do have this family in my tree- Joao Barreto, married in 1611 to Catarina Dias and I do have 4 children listed for them - and one of them is named Estevao...so we could very well be on the right track here. Unfortunately, I never took this down any further than this - so I do not have Estevao's marriage. I have him listed as Estavao Barreto as I only have his year of birth from his baptismal record and don't really know which name he went by. As it says about 1618 - it means it was at the point in my research where I was writing down the baptisms of everyone in Porto da Cruz to try to tie them all together in my tree, so I do not have the actually record for him - although I may have for his 3 siblings as they all have actual baptismal dates. If you believe this is the correct Estevao, (son of Joao Barreto and Catherine Dias) then I can give you one more generation. His paternal grandparents are Gaspar FERNANDES & Joana BARRETO(and my directs as well). His maternal grandparents are Antonio Fernandes de Vivieros & Maria Tomas. And unfortunately, this is the last of either of their lines that I have...so if anyone knows who Antonio Fernandes de Vivieros & Maria Tomas parents are - or whom Gaspar FERNANDES & Joana BARRETO's parents are - please let us know!! Cece From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Luis Beal Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto In the Barretos do Porto da Cruz there is one Joao Barreto, married in 1611 to Catarina Dias, daughter of Antonio Fernandes e Maria Tomas. He is the son of Gaspar Fernandes and Joana Barreto and lived in Porto da Cruz around 1580. There is no mention of children but he has 3 brothers and a sister listed. Pedro Barreto and Guiomar Lourenco, married 1610; Simao Barreto married first Maria Dias, then Leonor de Freitas; Gaspar Fernandes and Maria Figueiredo, married 1621; Madalena Barreto and Andre' Lourenco, married 1602.   Don't know if that fits your family. Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 4:56:29 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Hello Mary, If his daus. used Freitas e de Nóbrega he is a Barreto from Gaula. I bet. So he is a descendant of Duarte Barreto ( a g. son probably) the first Barreto from Gaula. Clode says he was not noble. Gouveia e Freitas says he definitely was. A Fidalgo. Whatever the case he was wealthy- "abastado proprietário -  and from him came all sorts of Barretos from Gaula and some went to S. Gonçalo and elsewhere. In the book Famílias de Gaula these Barretos are said to be one of the old families from Gaula. I'm also descended from them. Miguel On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello Luis: > > I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know > where or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he > was married to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to > adulthood and marry in Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the > surname Fernandes and his daughters used the surnames of de Freitas > and de Nobrega. > > Any info would be enlightening. > > Thank you > > Mary da Silva Frost > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2559 - Release Date: 12/11/09 19:37:00

Luis, Once again Thank You so much... I didn't have any info on Joao Barreto d'Amil, who married Antonia da Silva, nor his second marriage to D. Maria da Candelaria. Agueda Cesar and Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira are my direct line ancestors. When I was researching them using Conego Vaz' publication "Barretos, Do Arco, I didn't follow through with listing Joao Barreto de Amil, though now I do see him listed along with Agueda as being siblings... Thank you for pointing out Joao... I'll update my file to include him and his spouses. Titulo: Liras Vardas ? Do you know if Varda/s is a spelling variation of Vareda? Abs, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:58:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Ha you got me there. He is not in Barretos da Ponta do Sol but in just Barretos. This record lists: Joao Barreto and Ana Cesar daughter of Andre Cesar and Isabel de Sequeira - Titulo de Cesar. Children: Andre Cesar de Andrade married 1653 to D. Antonia de Valdavesso; Joao Barreto d'Amil, married 1 in 1656 to D. Antonia da Silva, 2 in 1660 in Canhas to D. Maria da Candelaria; Agueda Cesar married 1662 to Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira, titulo de Liras Vardas. No mention of Agostinho. Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 6:36:40 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Luis, This will be the last one for awhile...;-) Barretos do Ponta do Sol: Interested in (2)Joao Barreto son of (1)Joao Barreto and Isabel de Amil. (2) married in the Calheta on 20 Feb 1629 to Ana Cesar. (2) was also married to Maria da Camara daughter of Bras de Amil and Catarina da Camara. I have three children for (2)Joao and Ana - Agostinho; Agueda and Andre with surnames of Cesar de Andrade for Agosinho and Andre, but for Agueda the surname is Cesar Abreu Andrade... Interested if there's a reference made in the pages that you have for the different surnames that the children used... Appreciate your help... Pat

Luis, This will be the last one for awhile...;-) Barretos do Ponta do Sol: Interested in (2)Joao Barreto son of (1)Joao Barreto and Isabel de Amil. (2) married in the Calheta on 20 Feb 1629 to Ana Cesar. (2) was also married to Maria da Camara daughter of Bras de Amil and Catarina da Camara. I have three children for (2)Joao and Ana - Agostinho; Agueda and Andre with surnames of Cesar de Andrade for Agosinho and Andre, but for Agueda the surname is Cesar Abreu Andrade... Interested if there's a reference made in the pages that you have for the different surnames that the children used... Appreciate your help... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:06:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira List, I don't know if I ever mentioned that I have copies of pages of the "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was online before the Nesos site went down. I have pages for these Genealogies: Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias Costa Azevedos Azevedos Cardosos Baioes Barretos Barretos da Ponta do Sol Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge Barretos do Porto da Cruz Baptistas Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos Lobos Berengueres Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo - Teixeiras Bragas Coelhos do Porto Santo Gomes Eannes Cunhas Conego Menezes Vaz Freitas Martins Cabrais Amis Ferrazes Vaz Rebelos Rodrigues de Gouveia Uzeis Andradas do Arco Pontes de Gouveias Carvalhos Pais Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do Monte Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa Teles do Campanario Giz do Campanario Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de Braga 1501-1544 Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau Vales Titulos nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira Jardins do Arco da Calheta Pintos de Lemos Araujos Vares Abreus Santos Caiados e Caiados Goncalves Freitas do Vale da Bica Pitas Fernandes Lopes Esteves Antepassados dos Araujos Rodrigues Lourencos Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII Monizes Agonsecas If you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not have copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry. Have a great day, hopefully a warm one too ;) Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Luis, Thank you so much... This is great! Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:10:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] (Amis)

Hello Mary, If his daus. used Freitas e de Nóbrega he is a Barreto from Gaula. I bet. So he is a descendant of Duarte Barreto ( a g. son probably) the first Barreto from Gaula. Clode says he was not noble. Gouveia e Freitas says he definitely was. A Fidalgo. Whatever the case he was wealthy- "abastado proprietário - and from him came all sorts of Barretos from Gaula and some went to S. Gonçalo and elsewhere. In the book Famílias de Gaula these Barretos are said to be one of the old families from Gaula. I'm also descended from them. Miguel On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello Luis: > > I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know where > or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he was married > to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to adulthood and marry > in > Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the surname Fernandes and his > daughters used the surnames of de Freitas and de Nobrega. > > Any info would be enlightening. > > Thank you > > Mary da Silva Frost > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

You are welcome. I don't know if Vardas is a variation of Vareda. I'd say that's a question for either Miguel or Paulo :)   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 9:39:57 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Luis, Once again Thank You so much... I didn't have any info on Joao Barreto d'Amil, who married Antonia da Silva, nor his second marriage to D. Maria da Candelaria. Agueda Cesar and Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira are my direct line ancestors. When I was researching them using Conego Vaz' publication "Barretos, Do Arco, I didn't follow through with listing Joao Barreto de Amil, though now I do see him listed along with Agueda as being siblings... Thank you for pointing out Joao... I'll update my file to include him and his spouses. Titulo: Liras Vardas ? Do you know if Varda/s is a spelling variation of Vareda? Abs, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:58:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Ha you got me there. He is not in Barretos da Ponta do Sol but in just Barretos. This record lists: Joao Barreto and Ana Cesar daughter of Andre Cesar and Isabel de Sequeira - Titulo de Cesar. Children: Andre Cesar de Andrade married 1653 to D. Antonia de Valdavesso; Joao Barreto d'Amil, married 1 in 1656 to D. Antonia da Silva, 2 in 1660 in Canhas to D. Maria da Candelaria; Agueda Cesar married 1662 to Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira, titulo de Liras Vardas. No mention of Agostinho. Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 6:36:40 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Luis, This will be the last one for awhile...;-) Barretos do Ponta do Sol: Interested in (2)Joao Barreto son of (1)Joao Barreto and Isabel de Amil. (2) married in the Calheta on 20 Feb 1629 to Ana Cesar. (2) was also married to Maria da Camara daughter of Bras de Amil and Catarina da Camara. I have three children for (2)Joao and Ana - Agostinho; Agueda and Andre with surnames of Cesar de Andrade for Agosinho and Andre, but for Agueda the surname is Cesar Abreu Andrade... Interested if there's a reference made in the pages that you have for the different surnames that the children used... Appreciate your help... Pat ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Luis, Not sure I'm doing this correctly... I would be interested in whatever you have for the surname of Amis...which I believe has a spelling variation of Amil... specially Joao Fernandes de Amil married to Ana Vaz, with daughters Inacia and Margarida. Thank You, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:06:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira List, I don't know if I ever mentioned that I have copies of pages of the "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was online before the Nesos site went down. I have pages for these Genealogies: Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias Costa Azevedos Azevedos Cardosos Baioes Barretos Barretos da Ponta do Sol Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge Barretos do Porto da Cruz Baptistas Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos Lobos Berengueres Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo - Teixeiras Bragas Coelhos do Porto Santo Gomes Eannes Cunhas Conego Menezes Vaz Freitas Martins Cabrais Amis Ferrazes Vaz Rebelos Rodrigues de Gouveia Uzeis Andradas do Arco Pontes de Gouveias Carvalhos Pais Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do Monte Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa Teles do Campanario Giz do Campanario Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de Braga 1501-1544 Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau Vales Titulos nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira Jardins do Arco da Calheta Pintos de Lemos Araujos Vares Abreus Santos Caiados e Caiados Goncalves Freitas do Vale da Bica Pitas Fernandes Lopes Esteves Antepassados dos Araujos Rodrigues Lourencos Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII Monizes Agonsecas If you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not have copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry. Have a great day, hopefully a warm one too ;) Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Luis: I am sorry, I think I misunderstood. The family name is Barreto. His name is Estevao Fernandes Barreto but I do not know who his parents were or where they came from. If you can find anything on him, I would be most grateful. Thanks you Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Luis Beal Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Mary, I really need a bit more info like your 7g gfather's name. I also need you to tell me where you want me to look for it (which family name from the list I posted). I have over 300 pages so I can't just scan for names.   Thanks,   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Mary Frost <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 3:59:14 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Estevao Fernandes Barreto Hello Luis: I am looking for any information on my 7 g grandfather. I do not know where or when he was born. Marriage docs of his children indicate he was married to Catarina Dias. They had four children who lived to adulthood and marry in Agua de Pena in late 1600s. His son used the surname Fernandes and his daughters used the surnames of de Freitas and de Nobrega. Any info would be enlightening. Thank you Mary da Silva Frost ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For those who descend from Manuel Fernandes Ruivo m, around 162...163... Isabel Bettencourt de Sá, it will be interesting to know that there was another Manuel Fernandes Ruivo m. Luzia Dias, and father of Baltasar Fernandes Leão- who married around 1626, Catarina Rocha. >From him (BFL) descended, "por varonia" Teodoro Joâo Baião, tabelião, D. Albertina de Alencastre Baião. and all the Leões from Porto Santo. (According to Cónego Meneses Vaz). So probably this first Manuel Fernandes Ruivo or his wife, Luzia Dias, were connected to the Baiões- The Leão, according to Clode, were an Italian family from Genova, who settled in Madeira around 1472. The first ones were Leão Fernandes and his brothers, "sugar contractors". So, chronologically the first Manuel Fernandes Ruivo from Porto Santo. fits very well. He could be the father of the second Manuel Fernandes Ruivo, the so called Alferes da Cancela (m. to the well known Isabel de Bettencourt e Sá). Ruivo meaning Red-Haired, was certainly an "alcunha falante " of the descriptive type. This first Manuel Fernandes Ruivo could also be a descendant of the Italian family that setlled in Funchal, around 1472. Miguel

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Scot Austin <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > Cece, > > > > Can you find a reference about Pedro Gonçalves Camacho and Catarina Anes > in > > the Acciolis title of HHN? > > > > There is in fact a Catarina Anes dau. of João Escócio, but it's another, > an > > homonimous of the one geneall refers as wife of Pedro Gonçalves Camacho. > > > That's the one I meant. > I show her married to Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira > > Scot > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> Miguel, > >> Re your note below about : > >> "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about > >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho > >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of > >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think." > >> > >> I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter Isabel > - > >> and neither from Geneall. > >> My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras > >> Drummond & Lordello geneologies). > >> So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do you > >> have > >> to disprove this? > >> Cece > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > >> Henriques > >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >> > >> Pat, > >> > >> Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de > Andrade > >> in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones I'm looking > >> for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who married in 1650 > Gaspar > >> de > >> Moura de Mendonça. > >> My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, > >> becoming > >> a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would be > ostracized > >> for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very least let one year > go > >> by. > >> > >> There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. > >> > >> Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO > 1651, > >> parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some Barreto. And > there > >> were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or Tuim) around in S. > >> Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you know > >> very > >> well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the Barretos. > >> > >> . > >> > >> The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about > >> > >> > >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho > >> > >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of > >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. > >> > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> > >> Miguel > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Miguel, > >>> > >>> I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira parents > >>> of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. > >>> > >>> Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... > >>> Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. > >>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via > >>> John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate > >>> that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). > >>> > >>> John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel > >>> Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). > >>> > >>> Pat > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > >>> Pacific > >>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >>> > >>> > >>>> Does anyone has any info about this couple: > >>>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? > >>> > >>> Thanks in advance for any news. > >>> > >>> Miguel > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this > >> incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.99/2553 - Release Date: > 12/10/09 > >> 07:36:00 > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ha you got me there. He is not in Barretos da Ponta do Sol but in just Barretos. This record lists: Joao Barreto and Ana Cesar daughter of Andre Cesar and Isabel de Sequeira - Titulo de Cesar. Children: Andre Cesar de Andrade married 1653 to D. Antonia de Valdavesso; Joao Barreto d'Amil, married 1 in 1656 to D. Antonia da Silva, 2 in 1660 in Canhas to D. Maria da Candelaria; Agueda Cesar married 1662 to Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira, titulo de Liras Vardas.   No mention of Agostinho. Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 6:36:40 PM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Luis, This will be the last one for awhile...;-) Barretos do Ponta do Sol: Interested in (2)Joao Barreto son of (1)Joao Barreto and Isabel de Amil. (2) married in the Calheta on 20 Feb 1629 to Ana Cesar. (2) was also married to Maria da Camara daughter of Bras de Amil and Catarina da Camara. I have three children for (2)Joao and Ana - Agostinho; Agueda and Andre with surnames of Cesar de Andrade for Agosinho and Andre, but for Agueda the surname is Cesar Abreu Andrade... Interested if there's a reference made in the pages that you have for the different surnames that the children used... Appreciate your help... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:06:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira List, I don't know if I ever mentioned that I have copies of pages of the "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was online before  the Nesos site went down. I have pages for these Genealogies: Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias Costa Azevedos Azevedos Cardosos Baioes Barretos Barretos da Ponta do Sol Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge Barretos do Porto da Cruz Baptistas Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos Lobos Berengueres Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo - Teixeiras Bragas Coelhos do Porto Santo Gomes Eannes Cunhas Conego Menezes Vaz Freitas Martins Cabrais Amis Ferrazes Vaz Rebelos Rodrigues de Gouveia Uzeis Andradas do Arco Pontes de Gouveias Carvalhos Pais Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do Monte Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa Teles do Campanario Giz do Campanario Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de Braga 1501-1544 Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau Vales Titulos nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira Jardins do Arco da Calheta Pintos de Lemos Araujos Vares Abreus Santos Caiados e Caiados Goncalves Freitas do Vale da Bica Pitas Fernandes Lopes Esteves Antepassados dos Araujos Rodrigues Lourencos Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII Monizes Agonsecas If you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not have copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry. Have a great day, hopefully a warm one too ;) Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message