I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? Thanks, David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> writes: > Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca > names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems > to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and > now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > going > through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > thanks > to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check > my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > Janette > > > On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Hello Janette, > > You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > > > field day > > too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > to Pereira d'Agrela. > > Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > > Travassos m. > > Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > > manifests 2 or > > three generations later. > > > > Cheers, > > Miguel > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Hello Miguel, > >> > >> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm > >> sincerely grateful. > >> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >> little > >> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but > >> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >> Janette > >> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>> Hello Janette, > >>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>> ( dau. of > >>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>> Baltazar > >>> Manuel > >>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > Castro > >>> and Luzia > >>> Fernandes > >>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular case > >>> he was > >>> not accurate. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Miguel > >>> > >>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > it was > >>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > particular > >>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > sent me > >>>> on > >>>> the Gois family. > >>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>> haven't > >>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You have > >>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>> Geneall has > >>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>> Madeiran > >>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > >>>>> looked for > >>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > >>>>> was > >>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto Santo prison. > >>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible job? > >>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- Idon't > >>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good friend, > >>>>> such is > >>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>> position as myself." > >>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small in stature, but not in dignity. > >>>>> > >>>>> Miguel

Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and now, thanks to you, her grandmother. Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was going through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, thanks to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. Janette On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Hello Janette, > > You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > field day > too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks to > Pereira > d'Agrela. > > Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > Travassos m. > Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > manifests 2 or > three generations later. > > Cheers, > > Miguel > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hello Miguel, >> >> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm >> sincerely grateful. >> >> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >> little >> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but >> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >> >> Janette >> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >> >>> Hello Janette, >>> >>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>> >>> >>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>> ( dau. of >>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>> >>> Baltazar >>> Manuel >>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de Castro >>> and Luzia >>> Fernandes >>> >>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>> >>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular case >>> he was >>> not accurate. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Miguel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira de >>>> Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but it >>>> was >>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this particular >>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive sent me >>>> on >>>> the Gois family. >>>> >>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>> haven't >>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >>>> >>>> Janette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You have >>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. >>>>> Geneall has >>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>> Madeiran >>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I >>>>> looked for >>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>> >>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha >>>>> was >>>>> " O >>>>> Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto >>>>> Santo >>>>> prison. >>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>> station. What >>>>> you, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible job? >>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- I >>>>> don't >>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good >>>>> friend, >>>>> such is >>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>> position as >>>>> myself." >>>>> >>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small in >>>>> stature, >>>>> but not in dignity. >>>>> >>>>> Miguel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Miguel. I have a some information on the Calacas and >>>>>> Ornellas. >>>>>> Any pointers on other resources for informaton on the Texeiras, >>>>>> Castros, etc. ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Janette >>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 7:49 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Bingo! I was sure he was from Porto Santo. He probably connects >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> first Travassos from Porto Santo. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And so with the Teixeiras, Calaças, Castros, Mendonças. >>>>>>> Vasconcelos >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> Ornelas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected] >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Miguel, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1600s - the marriage date is 1649 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Manuel Travassos Isabel de Góis Porto Santo 1649 >>>>>>>> 991 >>>>>>>> 26 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 4:47 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From which year is he? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The name is not very common. It is very ancient. It is a >>>>>>>>> toponymic. >>>>>>>>> And the >>>>>>>>> Travassos from the XVI th century were considered as nobility. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Janette Chun <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With the invaluable help of Luis Beal, I now have an ancestor >>>>>>>>>> named >>>>>>>>>> Manuel Travassos. I've never come across this last name >>>>>>>>>> before - >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> a quick internet search revealed that there are quite a few. >>>>>>>>>> Does >>>>>>>>>> anyone know the origins of this name? Is it common in >>>>>>>>>> Madeira? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 9:40 PM, Janette Chun wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Luis! No not gothic yet....LOL >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I will email the pdf files to the address you provided. >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>> again. >>>>>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 10:14 AM, Luis Beal wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That was me. Just e-mail an attachment to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> 1600's I hope it isn't gothic cause that I can't read :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Luis Beal >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain >>>>>>>>>>>> perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life >>>>>>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>>>>>> it is woven into the life of our ancestors." >>>>>>>>>>>> Cicero, Roman orator >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Janette Chun <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: PRT-MADEIRA <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 9:27:18 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I've enjoyed the exchange of emails over the last few >>>>>>>>>>>> weeks. >>>>>>>>>>>> Great to >>>>>>>>>>>> see the forum active again. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I recall reading an offer to help read some certificates >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>>>>> remember who : ( - old age! I recently received two >>>>>>>>>>>> certificates >>>>>>>>>>>> from the 1600s which are a little difficult to decipher - I >>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>> sort of figured it out, but would welcome a second >>>>>>>>>>>> opinion as >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> familiar with some of the abbreviations. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Janette Chun >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >>>>>>>>>>>> subject >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> the body of the message >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >>>>>>>>>>>> subject >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> the body of the message >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>>> without the >>>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> the body of the message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>> without the >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>> without the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] >>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>>>> the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Hello Miguel, Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm sincerely grateful. I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a little confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. Janette On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Hello Janette, > > In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > > > 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis ( dau. of > Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > > Baltazar > Manuel > Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de Castro > and Luzia > Fernandes > > The Travassos were from the nobility. > > I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular case > he was > not accurate. > > Cheers, > > Miguel > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira de >> Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but it >> was >> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this particular >> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive sent me >> on >> the Gois family. >> >> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far haven't >> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >> >> Janette >> >> >> >> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >> >>> Well, >>> >>> >>> You proibably know already all that are available, You have >>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. >>> Geneall has >>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best Madeiran >>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>> >>> >>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I >>> looked for >>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>> >>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha was >>> " O >>> Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto Santo >>> prison. >>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>> station. What >>> you, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible job? >>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- I >>> don't >>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good friend, >>> such is >>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>> position as >>> myself." >>> >>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small in >>> stature, >>> but not in dignity. >>> >>> Miguel >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Miguel. I have a some information on the Calacas and >>>> Ornellas. >>>> Any pointers on other resources for informaton on the Texeiras, >>>> Castros, etc. ? >>>> >>>> Janette >>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 7:49 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>> >>>>> Bingo! I was sure he was from Porto Santo. He probably connects >>>>> with >>>>> the >>>>> first Travassos from Porto Santo. >>>>> >>>>> And so with the Teixeiras, Calaças, Castros, Mendonças. >>>>> Vasconcelos >>>>> and >>>>> Ornelas. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> regards, >>>>> Miguel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Miguel, >>>>>> >>>>>> 1600s - the marriage date is 1649 >>>>>> >>>>>> Manuel Travassos Isabel de Góis Porto Santo 1649 >>>>>> 991 >>>>>> 26 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Janette >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 4:47 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From which year is he? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The name is not very common. It is very ancient. It is a >>>>>>> toponymic. >>>>>>> And the >>>>>>> Travassos from the XVI th century were considered as nobility. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Janette Chun <[email protected] >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With the invaluable help of Luis Beal, I now have an ancestor >>>>>>>> named >>>>>>>> Manuel Travassos. I've never come across this last name >>>>>>>> before - >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> a quick internet search revealed that there are quite a few. >>>>>>>> Does >>>>>>>> anyone know the origins of this name? Is it common in Madeira? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 9:40 PM, Janette Chun wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks Luis! No not gothic yet....LOL >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I will email the pdf files to the address you provided. >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> again. >>>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 10:14 AM, Luis Beal wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That was me. Just e-mail an attachment to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> 1600's I hope it isn't gothic cause that I can't read :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Luis Beal >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain >>>>>>>>>> perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life >>>>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>>>> it is woven into the life of our ancestors." >>>>>>>>>> Cicero, Roman orator >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: Janette Chun <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> To: PRT-MADEIRA <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 9:27:18 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've enjoyed the exchange of emails over the last few weeks. >>>>>>>>>> Great to >>>>>>>>>> see the forum active again. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I recall reading an offer to help read some certificates but >>>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>>> remember who : ( - old age! I recently received two >>>>>>>>>> certificates >>>>>>>>>> from the 1600s which are a little difficult to decipher - I >>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>> sort of figured it out, but would welcome a second opinion as >>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> familiar with some of the abbreviations. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Janette Chun >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> the body of the message >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> the body of the message >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>> without the >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>> without the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] >>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>>>> the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Hello Janette, In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis ( dau. of Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: Baltazar Manuel Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de Castro and Luzia Fernandes The Travassos were from the nobility. I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular case he was not accurate. Cheers, Miguel On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira de > Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but it was > in fact through his work that I was able to get to this particular > ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive sent me on > the Gois family. > > I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far haven't > discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > > Janette > > > > On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Well, > > > > > > You proibably know already all that are available, You have > > Felsiberto, HHN, > > Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. > > Geneall has > > some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best Madeiran > > genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > > > > > > I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > > looked for > > them and it had valuable and original info about them. > > > > At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha was > > " O > > Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto Santo > > prison. > > A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > > station. What > > you, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible job? > > The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- I > > don't > > recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good friend, > > such is > > life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > > position as > > myself." > > > > To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small in > > stature, > > but not in dignity. > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Thanks Miguel. I have a some information on the Calacas and Ornellas. > >> Any pointers on other resources for informaton on the Texeiras, > >> Castros, etc. ? > >> > >> Janette > >> On 3-Dec-09, at 7:49 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >> > >>> Bingo! I was sure he was from Porto Santo. He probably connects with > >>> the > >>> first Travassos from Porto Santo. > >>> > >>> And so with the Teixeiras, Calaças, Castros, Mendonças. Vasconcelos > >>> and > >>> Ornelas. > >>> > >>> > >>> regards, > >>> Miguel > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Miguel, > >>>> > >>>> 1600s - the marriage date is 1649 > >>>> > >>>> Manuel Travassos Isabel de Góis Porto Santo 1649 > >>>> 991 > >>>> 26 > >>>> > >>>> Thanks. > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 4:47 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>> > >>>>>> From which year is he? > >>>>> > >>>>> The name is not very common. It is very ancient. It is a > >>>>> toponymic. > >>>>> And the > >>>>> Travassos from the XVI th century were considered as nobility. > >>>>> > >>>>> regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> With the invaluable help of Luis Beal, I now have an ancestor > >>>>>> named > >>>>>> Manuel Travassos. I've never come across this last name > >>>>>> before - > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> a quick internet search revealed that there are quite a few. Does > >>>>>> anyone know the origins of this name? Is it common in Madeira? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Janette > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 9:40 PM, Janette Chun wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks Luis! No not gothic yet....LOL > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I will email the pdf files to the address you provided. Thanks > >>>>>>> again. > >>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 10:14 AM, Luis Beal wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> That was me. Just e-mail an attachment to [email protected] > >>>>>>>> 1600's I hope it isn't gothic cause that I can't read :) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Luis Beal > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain > >>>>>>>> perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life > >>>>>>>> unless > >>>>>>>> it is woven into the life of our ancestors." > >>>>>>>> Cicero, Roman orator > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>> From: Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>> To: PRT-MADEIRA <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 9:27:18 AM > >>>>>>>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello all, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I've enjoyed the exchange of emails over the last few weeks. > >>>>>>>> Great to > >>>>>>>> see the forum active again. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I recall reading an offer to help read some certificates but > >>>>>>>> can't > >>>>>>>> remember who : ( - old age! I recently received two > >>>>>>>> certificates > >>>>>>>> from the 1600s which are a little difficult to decipher - I > >>>>>>>> think > >>>>>>>> I've > >>>>>>>> sort of figured it out, but would welcome a second opinion as > >>>>>>>> I'm > >>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>> familiar with some of the abbreviations. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Janette Chun > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> the body of the message > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> the body of the message > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>>>> without the > >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] > >>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > >>>>> the body of the message > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> without the > >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] > >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > >>> the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Juanita, Luis said the essential about the origin of the Berenguer and I just add that according to magister Frutuoso: Pedro Berenguer was a MD. (O Dr, da Calheta OPhisicoi and "doutor em medicina") see below:. " Acima da villa, pela terra dentro hum quarto de legoa, está o engenho dos Cabraes; e perto delle está outro do Dr. da Calheta Phisico, chamado Pedro Berenguer de Lemilhana, moço fidalgo e cavalleiro da Ordem de Christo. e ainda hoje na Calheta conserva o nome de Lombo do Doutor uma parte considerável das terras de sesmaria que ali teve Pedro de Berenguer: Era natural de Valença, em Espanha, doutor em medicina e fidalgo da casa real. Veio para a Madeira no ultimo quartel do século XVI e estabeleceu­se na freguesia da Calheta, onde instituiu um morgadio, que transmitiu aos seus descendentes. A ele ou a algum dos seus sucessores foi passada carta de brasão de armas, por alvará régio de 5 de Novembro de de 1524 São elas: campo vermelho e uma banda de azul perfilada de ouro e nela três flores de liz de prata, elmo de prata aberto, paquife de prata a vermelho, e por timbre um braço vestido de vermelho com uma das flores de liz na mão. O Dr. Pedro de Berenguer Lemilhana morreu na Calheta e foi sepultado no cruzeiro da capela­mor da igreja paroquial desta freguesia. Miguel On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Luis Beal <[email protected]> wrote: > According to the Berengueres genealogy the earliest was Doctor Pedro > Berenguer de Lumilhana, native of Valenca in Catalunha (Spain). He came to > Madeira in 1500 and lived in Calheta. He was a nobleman from the Royal > house, married Isabel Rodrigues de Andrade daughter of Rodrigues Anes, who > was a servant to the Infant D. Henrique, and of Isabel Rodrigues de Andrada. > They had, yikes, 16 kids recorded on this paper. > > There are a few Berengueres listed from the early 1700's so if you are that > far back shoot me a name and I'll try to see if it is listed. > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 2:06:07 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira > > We have Berneguers in our family. Could anyone give us information on the > earliest people in this line. JuanitaWS > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Juanita, There are some Berengueres living in Toronto, Canada. I hope you are able to understand Portuguese for I took the liberty of sending to you a scanned published Berenguer family list to your e-mail address. José -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira Hello Juanita, Luis said the essential about the origin of the Berenguer and I just add that according to magister Frutuoso: Pedro Berenguer was a MD. (O Dr, da Calheta OPhisicoi and "doutor em medicina") see below:. " Acima da villa, pela terra dentro hum quarto de legoa, está o engenho dos Cabraes; e perto delle está outro do Dr. da Calheta Phisico, chamado Pedro Berenguer de Lemilhana, moço fidalgo e cavalleiro da Ordem de Christo. e ainda hoje na Calheta conserva o nome de Lombo do Doutor uma parte considerável das terras de sesmaria que ali teve Pedro de Berenguer: Era natural de Valença, em Espanha, doutor em medicina e fidalgo da casa real. Veio para a Madeira no ultimo quartel do século XVI e estabeleceu­se na freguesia da Calheta, onde instituiu um morgadio, que transmitiu aos seus descendentes. A ele ou a algum dos seus sucessores foi passada carta de brasão de armas, por alvará régio de 5 de Novembro de de 1524 São elas: campo vermelho e uma banda de azul perfilada de ouro e nela três flores de liz de prata, elmo de prata aberto, paquife de prata a vermelho, e por timbre um braço vestido de vermelho com uma das flores de liz na mão. O Dr. Pedro de Berenguer Lemilhana morreu na Calheta e foi sepultado no cruzeiro da capela­mor da igreja paroquial desta freguesia. Miguel On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Luis Beal <[email protected]> wrote: > According to the Berengueres genealogy the earliest was Doctor Pedro > Berenguer de Lumilhana, native of Valenca in Catalunha (Spain). He came to > Madeira in 1500 and lived in Calheta. He was a nobleman from the Royal > house, married Isabel Rodrigues de Andrade daughter of Rodrigues Anes, who > was a servant to the Infant D. Henrique, and of Isabel Rodrigues de Andrada. > They had, yikes, 16 kids recorded on this paper. > > There are a few Berengueres listed from the early 1700's so if you are that > far back shoot me a name and I'll try to see if it is listed. > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 2:06:07 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira > > We have Berneguers in our family. Could anyone give us information on the > earliest people in this line. JuanitaWS > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ooooppppssss.... I'm guility of typing HHH instead of HHN... sorry for the confusion. Happy Holidays - Merry Chirstmas Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:59:19 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Question Hello Don, The initial of Henrique Henriques de Noronha (HHN) . One famous Madeiran genealogist from the 18th century, Cheers, Miguel On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Don <[email protected]> wrote: > What is HHH ? I have seen it in many notices and am curious. > Thanks > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 1683 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry, the name is Berenguer. I might try Miguel for help on this. JuanitaWS

We have Berneguers in our family. Could anyone give us information on the earliest people in this line. JuanitaWS

According to the Berengueres genealogy the earliest was Doctor Pedro Berenguer de Lumilhana, native of Valenca in Catalunha (Spain). He came to Madeira in 1500 and lived in Calheta. He was a nobleman from the Royal house, married Isabel Rodrigues de Andrade daughter of Rodrigues Anes, who was a servant to the Infant D. Henrique, and of Isabel Rodrigues de Andrada. They had, yikes, 16 kids recorded on this paper. There are a few Berengueres listed from the early 1700's so if you are that far back shoot me a name and I'll try to see if it is listed.   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 2:06:07 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira We have Berneguers in our family.  Could anyone give us information on the earliest people in this line.  JuanitaWS ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Question > Hello Don, > > The initial of Henrique Henriques de Noronha (HHN) . One famous Madeiran > genealogist from the 18th century, > > Cheers, > > > Miguel > > > > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Don <[email protected]> wrote: > >> What is HHH ? I have seen it in many notices and am curious. >> Thanks >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. >> SPAMfighter has removed 1683 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> The Professional version does not have this message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1685 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Hello Don, The initial of Henrique Henriques de Noronha (HHN) . One famous Madeiran genealogist from the 18th century, Cheers, Miguel On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Don <[email protected]> wrote: > What is HHH ? I have seen it in many notices and am curious. > Thanks > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 1683 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

What is HHH ? I have seen it in many notices and am curious. Thanks -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1683 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

oh, im sorry..i misundertood..i thought that you could scan the page and send it. I just wanted to patch those families and check them on my database..so i dont have specific names. But thanks anyway In a message dated 14/12/2009 00:51:35 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Leandro, I can look up specific people if you give me their names and approximate date. I realize I was not terribly specific on my original e-mail but I meant that I would look up a name (like Joao Pedro) in one of the genealogies I posted (like the Braga geneology). If I had the pages saved on my computer I'd be happy to send you all that info but I don't have time to scan the book. So for now specific names only :) Thanks, Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, December 13, 2009 2:52:56 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira Hi Luis, Can you send me info on Barretos da Ponta do Sol, Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge, Uzeis, Andradas do Arco, Pontes de Gouveias, Carvalhos Pais, Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII and Monizes Agonsecas thank you very much, i really appreciate it Leandro In a message dated 11/12/2009 19:06:41 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: List, I don't know if I ever mentioned that I have copies of pages of the "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was online before the Nesos site went down. I have pages for these Genealogies: Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias Costa Azevedos Azevedos Cardosos Baioes Barretos Barretos da Ponta do Sol Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge Barretos do Porto da Cruz Baptistas Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos Lobos Berengueres Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo - Teixeiras Bragas Coelhos do Porto Santo Gomes Eannes Cunhas Conego Menezes Vaz Freitas Martins Cabrais Amis Ferrazes Vaz Rebelos Rodrigues de Gouveia Uzeis Andradas do Arco Pontes de Gouveias Carvalhos Pais Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do Monte Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa Teles do Campanario Giz do Campanario Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de Braga 1501-1544 Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau Vales Titulos nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira Jardins do Arco da Calheta Pintos de Lemos Araujos Vares Abreus Santos Caiados e Caiados Goncalves Freitas do Vale da Bica Pitas Fernandes Lopes Esteves Antepassados dos Araujos Rodrigues Lourencos Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII Monizes Agonsecas If you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not have copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry. Have a great day, hopefully a warm one too ;) Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Luis, Can you send me info on Barretos da Ponta do Sol, Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge, Uzeis, Andradas do Arco, Pontes de Gouveias, Carvalhos Pais, Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII and Monizes Agonsecas thank you very much, i really appreciate it Leandro In a message dated 11/12/2009 19:06:41 Romance Standard Time, [email protected] writes: List, I don't know if I ever mentioned that I have copies of pages of the "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was online before the Nesos site went down. I have pages for these Genealogies: Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias Costa Azevedos Azevedos Cardosos Baioes Barretos Barretos da Ponta do Sol Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge Barretos do Porto da Cruz Baptistas Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos Lobos Berengueres Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo - Teixeiras Bragas Coelhos do Porto Santo Gomes Eannes Cunhas Conego Menezes Vaz Freitas Martins Cabrais Amis Ferrazes Vaz Rebelos Rodrigues de Gouveia Uzeis Andradas do Arco Pontes de Gouveias Carvalhos Pais Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do Monte Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa Teles do Campanario Giz do Campanario Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de Braga 1501-1544 Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau Vales Titulos nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira Jardins do Arco da Calheta Pintos de Lemos Araujos Vares Abreus Santos Caiados e Caiados Goncalves Freitas do Vale da Bica Pitas Fernandes Lopes Esteves Antepassados dos Araujos Rodrigues Lourencos Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII Monizes Agonsecas If you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not have copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry. Have a great day, hopefully a warm one too ;) Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Leandro, I can look up specific people if you give me their names and approximate date. I realize I was not terribly specific on my original e-mail but I meant that I would look up a name (like Joao Pedro) in one of the genealogies I posted (like the Braga geneology).  If I had the pages saved on my computer I'd be happy to send you all that info but I don't have time to scan the book. So for now specific names only :) Thanks,   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, December 13, 2009 2:52:56 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira Hi Luis, Can you send me info on Barretos da Ponta do Sol, Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge, Uzeis, Andradas do Arco, Pontes de Gouveias, Carvalhos Pais,  Madeirenses no povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII and Monizes  Agonsecas thank you very much, i really appreciate it Leandro In a message dated 11/12/2009 19:06:41 Romance Standard Time,  [email protected] writes: List, I don't know if I ever mentioned that I  have copies of pages of the "Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira" book that was  online before  the Nesos site went down. I have pages for these  Genealogies: Atoguias Costas ou Atoguias  Costa Azevedos Azevedos Cardosos Baioes Barretos Barretos da Ponta  do Sol Barretos de S. Jorge e do Arco de S. Jorge Barretos do Porto da  Cruz Baptistas Baptista Serroes do Estreito da Camara dos  Lobos Berengueres Familias da Madeira e do Porto Santo -  Teixeiras Bragas Coelhos do Porto Santo Gomes  Eannes Cunhas Conego Menezes Vaz Freitas  Martins Cabrais Amis Ferrazes Vaz Rebelos Rodrigues de  Gouveia Uzeis Andradas do Arco Pontes de Gouveias Carvalhos  Pais Nunes Pereiras de Camara de Lobos Nunes Pereiras de N. Sra. do  Monte Sumarios matrimoniais da Camara Eclesiastica de Lisboa Teles do  Campanario Giz do Campanario Alguns Madeirenses que receberam ordens de  Braga 1501-1544 Freitas de N. Sra. do Calhau Vales Titulos  nobiliarios relacionados com a Madeira Jardins do Arco da Calheta Pintos  de Lemos Araujos Vares Abreus Santos Caiados e Caiados  Goncalves Freitas do Vale da Bica Pitas Fernandes Lopes  Esteves Antepassados dos Araujos Rodrigues Lourencos Madeirenses no  povoamento de Sta. Catarina, Brasil - Sec-XVIII Monizes Agonsecas If  you'd like me to look into a specific genealogy page put my name in the subject line. The names on these pages are not indexed so I really will only  look if you tell me which name on the above list you need. I also do not have  copies on my computer to e-mail out, sorry. Have a great day,  hopefully a warm one too ;) Luis Beal "Not to know what  happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what  is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our  ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list,  please send an email to [email protected] with the word  'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the  message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat, you're too kind. I am already an old dog ; -)) But staying active sure is one of the keys. cheers, Miguel On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > The key to longevity is staying active, and associating with youngsters > like yourself. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 8:07:49 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Fwd: Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > Agnes Varda's movies are delightful. She's almost eighty but still on the > move. And yesterday was the anniversary of the Archi-famous Portuguese > Manuel de Oliveira, the oldest film director of the world: 101 ! yes 101 > years , and as usual is thinking about his next movie. > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > Miguel, > > > > Thank you and Luis...This is very interesting... > > > > I need to read-up on this Agnes Varda, as well as locate something on the > > titulo de Liras Vardas. > > > > But for now, I need to start wrapping Xmas gifts...so, "I'll be back," > > later today. ;-))... > > > > Abs. Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:01:56 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Fwd: Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > > > No way. It's an European (roumanian, I think) name, like the famous > French > > moviemaker Agnes Varda. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Luis Beal <[email protected]> > > Date: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 7:34 AM > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > You are welcome. I don't know if Vardas is a variation of Vareda. I'd say > > that's a question for either Miguel or Paulo :) > > > > Luis Beal > > > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > > life of our ancestors." > > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 9:39:57 PM > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > > > Luis, > > > > Once again Thank You so much... I didn't have any info on Joao Barreto > > d'Amil, who married Antonia da Silva, nor his second marriage to D. Maria > > da > > Candelaria. > > > > Agueda Cesar and Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira are my direct line > > ancestors. When I was researching them using Conego Vaz' publication > > "Barretos, Do Arco, I didn't follow through with listing Joao Barreto de > > Amil, though now I do see him listed along with Agueda as being > siblings... > > > > Thank you for pointing out Joao... I'll update my file to include him and > > his spouses. > > > > Titulo: Liras Vardas ? Do you know if Varda/s is a spelling variation of > > Vareda? > > > > Abs, Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:58:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > > > Ha you got me there. He is not in Barretos da Ponta do Sol but in just > > Barretos. > > This record lists: > > Joao Barreto and Ana Cesar daughter of Andre Cesar and Isabel de Sequeira > - > > Titulo de Cesar. > > Children: > > Andre Cesar de Andrade married 1653 to D. Antonia de Valdavesso; > > Joao Barreto d'Amil, married 1 in 1656 to D. Antonia da Silva, 2 in 1660 > in > > Canhas to D. Maria da Candelaria; > > Agueda Cesar married 1662 to Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira, titulo de > > Liras Vardas. > > > > No mention of Agostinho. > > > > Luis Beal > > > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > > life of our ancestors." > > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 6:36:40 PM > > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > > > Luis, > > > > This will be the last one for awhile...;-) > > > > Barretos do Ponta do Sol: > > > > Interested in (2)Joao Barreto son of (1)Joao Barreto and Isabel de Amil. > > (2) married in the Calheta on 20 Feb 1629 to Ana Cesar. > > (2) was also married to Maria da Camara daughter of Bras de Amil and > > Catarina da Camara. > > > > I have three children for (2)Joao and Ana - Agostinho; Agueda and Andre > > with > > surnames of Cesar de Andrade for Agosinho and Andre, but for Agueda the > > surname is Cesar Abreu Andrade... > > > > Interested if there's a reference made in the pages that you have for the > > different surnames that the children used... > > > > Appreciate your help... > > Pat > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

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The key to longevity is staying active, and associating with youngsters like yourself. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 8:07:49 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Fwd: Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) Agnes Varda's movies are delightful. She's almost eighty but still on the move. And yesterday was the anniversary of the Archi-famous Portuguese Manuel de Oliveira, the oldest film director of the world: 101 ! yes 101 years , and as usual is thinking about his next movie. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Miguel, > > Thank you and Luis...This is very interesting... > > I need to read-up on this Agnes Varda, as well as locate something on the > titulo de Liras Vardas. > > But for now, I need to start wrapping Xmas gifts...so, "I'll be back," > later today. ;-))... > > Abs. Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:01:56 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Fwd: Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > No way. It's an European (roumanian, I think) name, like the famous French > moviemaker Agnes Varda. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Luis Beal <[email protected]> > Date: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 7:34 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > To: [email protected] > > > You are welcome. I don't know if Vardas is a variation of Vareda. I'd say > that's a question for either Miguel or Paulo :) > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 9:39:57 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > Luis, > > Once again Thank You so much... I didn't have any info on Joao Barreto > d'Amil, who married Antonia da Silva, nor his second marriage to D. Maria > da > Candelaria. > > Agueda Cesar and Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira are my direct line > ancestors. When I was researching them using Conego Vaz' publication > "Barretos, Do Arco, I didn't follow through with listing Joao Barreto de > Amil, though now I do see him listed along with Agueda as being siblings... > > Thank you for pointing out Joao... I'll update my file to include him and > his spouses. > > Titulo: Liras Vardas ? Do you know if Varda/s is a spelling variation of > Vareda? > > Abs, Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Luis Beal" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:58:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > Ha you got me there. He is not in Barretos da Ponta do Sol but in just > Barretos. > This record lists: > Joao Barreto and Ana Cesar daughter of Andre Cesar and Isabel de Sequeira - > Titulo de Cesar. > Children: > Andre Cesar de Andrade married 1653 to D. Antonia de Valdavesso; > Joao Barreto d'Amil, married 1 in 1656 to D. Antonia da Silva, 2 in 1660 in > Canhas to D. Maria da Candelaria; > Agueda Cesar married 1662 to Capitao Bartolomeu Veloso de Lira, titulo de > Liras Vardas. > > No mention of Agostinho. > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 6:36:40 PM > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Luis Beal (Barretos da Ponta do Sol) > > Luis, > > This will be the last one for awhile...;-) > > Barretos do Ponta do Sol: > > Interested in (2)Joao Barreto son of (1)Joao Barreto and Isabel de Amil. > (2) married in the Calheta on 20 Feb 1629 to Ana Cesar. > (2) was also married to Maria da Camara daughter of Bras de Amil and > Catarina da Camara. > > I have three children for (2)Joao and Ana - Agostinho; Agueda and Andre > with > surnames of Cesar de Andrade for Agosinho and Andre, but for Agueda the > surname is Cesar Abreu Andrade... > > Interested if there's a reference made in the pages that you have for the > different surnames that the children used... > > Appreciate your help... > Pat > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel, You're welcome... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 7:58:20 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho Pat, That's it. Thanks. No mention of Catarina Anes Afonso. Just of Catarina Anes (not Nunes, as it appears below per mistake). Miguel On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Cece and Miguel, > > Here's what's in HHH Pat > > > Per HHH Titulo - Acciaioli > "Nº 1 - Simão Acciaioli, Florentino de nação e primeiro que passou > a esta Ilha, como d´os documentos referidos e d´outros muitosconsta, > era filho(1) de Zenobio Accioioli, o Moço, e de sua mulher Catharina > Delphina, aquele a quem o Imperador Carlos 5º comcedeu os privile- > gios que vimos n´o documento referido; viveu n´esta Ilha para onde > veio pel-os annos 1515, segundo se deixa ver d´a certidão que trouxe, já > allegada; fez assento n´esta Cidade, onde fabricou casas nobres n´a > rua, que d´elle conserva o nome instituio um morgado com uma Capella > dedicada á Natividade d´a Senhora, ná sua Quinta, que se sagrou n´o > anno de .... foi fundador outrosi d´o capitulo velho d´o Convento > de São Francisco d´esta Cidade, de Nossa Senhora d´a Piedade, para seu > enterro; n´elle jaz com sua mulher, defronte d´o altar, em cuja campa se > lê um e outro nome; e n´as ilhargas d´a dicta sepultura as de seus filhos > morreu em 15 de fevereiro de 1544 annos. > > Casou com Catharina Pimentel, filha de Pedro Rodrigues Pimentel(2) > fidalgo n´os Livros d´El Rei, d´os Pimenteis de Torres Novas de Por- > tugal, e de sua mulher Izabel Ferreira Drummond, que era filha de > Gaspar Gonçalves Ferreira e de Catharina Nunes, em titulo de Ferreiras > d´a Costa Grande, § 2, Nº 2, fol.: ....., a qual falleceu em 12 de Ou- > tubro de 1541 annos. > (2) Na mesma margem externa está o seguinte teór : (2) Este Pedro > Rodrigues > Pimentel passou á Ilha d´a Madeira pelos annos 1460, sendo filho de Rodrigo > Pimen-tel que viveu em Tores Novaes, e de sua mulher D. Catharina de Brito, > como vi p’ uma Justificação tirada em 1547." > > > > > > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cece Camara" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:33:37 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > I'm getting nervous that I may have messed something up here and haven't > had > a chance to pull all the sources yet...but this is what I have in my tree: > > The Catherina Anes Afonso that is married to Pedro Gonçalves Camacho is the > daughter of Catherine Annes Drummond and Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira (and > thus > grandaughter of Joao Escocio). > > Make any better sense now? Or do I neeed to go and find my mistake??? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scot Austin > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > Cece, > > > > Can you find a reference about Pedro Gonçalves Camacho and Catarina > > Anes in the Acciolis title of HHN? > > > > There is in fact a Catarina Anes dau. of João Escócio, but it's > > another, an homonimous of the one geneall refers as wife of Pedro > Gonçalves Camacho. > > > I show her married to Gaspar Goncalves Ferreira > > Scot > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> Miguel, > >> Re your note below about : > >> "The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about Catarina Anes > >> Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho connection through Catarina to > >> the Drummonds is not real.It is one of geneall flops. She was not a > >> Drummond. > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think." > >> > >> I also have Catarina named as a Drummond as well as her daughter > >> Isabel - and neither from Geneall. > >> My sources are HHN- Acciolis and also Felisberto X 3 (from Ferreiras > >> Drummond & Lordello geneologies). > >> So do you think that all of these are wrong as well? If so, what do > >> you have to disprove this? > >> Cece > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de > >> Castro Henriques > >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:14 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >> > >> Pat, > >> > >> Thanks. I've come across that Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Inês de > >> Andrade in geneall, but chronologically they don't fit with the ones > >> I'm looking for. Though they had a g.dau. Maria de Andrade who > >> married in 1650 Gaspar de Moura de Mendonça. > >> My Maria de Andrade, was also married in 1650. I don't see a woman, > >> becoming a widow in one year and marrying in the same year. She would > >> be ostracized for the rest of her days. She had to let at the very > >> least let one year go by. > >> > >> There are many Fernandes Camacho and Andrades, indeed. > >> > >> Anyway my Manuel Fernandes Camacho and Maria de Andrade, S. GONÇALO > >> 1651, parents of António de Andrade Barreto, descend from some > >> Barreto. And there were some Fraguedos Barretos and Barretos Thoym (or > Tuim) around in S. > >> Gonçalo by that time. It can be another branch of Barretos. As you > >> know very well there are 4 at least!, possible trunks for the > >> Barretos. > >> > >> . > >> > >> The link to the Drummonds that geneall presents about > >> > >> > >> Catarina Anes Afonso <http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=41573> > >> > >> - * c. 1460 Pedro Gonçalves Camacho > >> > >> connection through Catarina to the Drummonds is not real.It is one of > >> geneall flops. She was not a Drummond. > >> > >> FAD indeed has one line, at least, to John Drummond. It's through the > >> Pimentel, I think. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> > >> Miguel > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pat Corbera > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Miguel, > >>> > >>> I have a Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1500 m. Maria Pereira > >>> parents of Manuel Fernandes Camacho b. abt 1530 m. Ines de Andrade. > >>> > >>> Not sure if this is the individuals that you're looking for... > >>> Source for the above - Sapo/GeneAll. > >>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes Camacho descends from John Drummond Escorcio, (via > >>> John's daughter Cararina or Clara Anes Drummond...My notes indicate > >>> that this daughter is FAD's ancestor). > >>> > >>> John DRUMMOND Escorcio is the 2rd great grandfather of Manuel > >>> Fernandes CAMACHO, the father.). > >>> > >>> Pat > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:48:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > >>> Pacific > >>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Camacho > >>> > >>> > >>>> Does anyone has any info about this couple: > >>>> > >>> Manuel Fernandes (Camacho) m. Maria de Andrade . 1650. S. Gonçalo.? > >>> > >>> Thanks in advance for any news. > >>> > >>> Miguel > >>> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message