That's my cousin, Maria do Monte the gg.dau. of Pereira de Agrela. Until quite recently they were not available. But now, I see , they are. On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:45 AM, Luis Beal <[email protected]> wrote: > > http://picasaweb.google.pt/cisne888/ This lady posted 9 books online of > Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 4:32:21 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > You can also try Pereira de Agrela in Google books instead of Pereira > d'Agrela. > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will > > find > > some mention of possibly him. > > > > I found the following passage: > > > > aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho Pereira > > d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. > > Eran > > ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara, por > ouja > > morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo, que era > o > > successor no morgadio. > > > > I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this may or > > may > > not be your d'Agrela. > > > > Tom Freitas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > Take a look at this tree: > > > > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > > > Thanks, Scot > > > > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Hello David, > > > > > > Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > > > Madeira, > > > transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist > is > > > probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > > Madeira. > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > >> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > > >> Thanks, > > >> David DeGrella > > >> Tennessee, USA > > >> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> > > >> writes: > > >> > > >>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca > > >>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems > > >>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and > > >>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > > >>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > > >>> going > > >>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > > >>> thanks > > >>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > > >>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check > > >>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > > >>> Janette > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> Hello Janette, > > >>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > > > >>>> field day > > >>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > > >>>> > > >>> to Pereira d'Agrela. > > >>> > > >>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > > >>>> Travassos m. > > >>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > > >>>> manifests 2 or > > >>>> three generations later. > > >>>> > > >>>> Cheers, > > >>>> Miguel > > >>>> > > >>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > > >>>> > > >>> <[email protected]> > > >>> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> Hello Miguel, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm > > >>>>> sincerely grateful. > > >>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > > >>>>> little > > >>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, > but > > >>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > > >>>>> Janette > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Hello Janette, > > >>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > > >>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > > >>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > > >>>>>> ( dau. of > > >>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > > >>>>>> Baltazar > > >>>>>> Manuel > > >>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > > >>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > > >>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > > >>>>>> > > >>> Castro > > >>> > > >>>>>> and Luzia > > >>>>>> Fernandes > > >>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > > >>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > > >>>>>> > > >> case > > >> > > >>>>>> he was > > >>>>>> not accurate. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Cheers, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Miguel > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > > >>>>>> > > >>> <[email protected]> > > >>> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > > >>>>>>> > > >> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > > >> > > >>> it was > > >>> > > >>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > > >>>>>>> > > >>> particular > > >>> > > >>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > > >>>>>>> > > >>> sent me > > >>> > > >>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>> the Gois family. > > >>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > > >>>>>>> haven't > > >>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Janette > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You > > >>>>>>>> > > >> have > > >> > > >>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > > >>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > Agrela. > > >>>>>>>> Geneall has > > >>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > > >>>>>>>> Madeiran > > >>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > > >>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > > >>>>>>>> looked for > > >>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > > >>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> was > > >>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of > Porto > > >>>>>>>> > > >> Santo prison. > > >> > > >>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > > >>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > > >>>>>>>> > > >> job? > > >> > > >>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- > > >>>>>>>> > > >> Idon't > > >> > > >>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > > >>>>>>>> > > >> friend, > > >> > > >>>>>>>> such is > > >>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > > >>>>>>>> position as myself." > > >>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small > > >>>>>>>> > > >> in stature, but not in dignity. > > >> > > >>>>>>>> Miguel > > >>>>>>>> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

You can also try Pereira de Agrela in Google books instead of Pereira d'Agrela. On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will > find > some mention of possibly him. > > I found the following passage: > > aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho Pereira > d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. > Eran > ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara, por ouja > morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo, que era o > successor no morgadio. > > I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this may or > may > not be your d'Agrela. > > Tom Freitas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > Miguel, > > Take a look at this tree: > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > Thanks, Scot > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > Hello David, > > > > Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > > Madeira, > > transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is > > probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > Madeira. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >> Thanks, > >> David DeGrella > >> Tennessee, USA > >> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >> writes: > >> > >>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca > >>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems > >>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and > >>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > >>> going > >>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>> thanks > >>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check > >>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>> Janette > >>> > >>> > >>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hello Janette, > >>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > > >>>> field day > >>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>> > >>> to Pereira d'Agrela. > >>> > >>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>> Travassos m. > >>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>> manifests 2 or > >>>> three generations later. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Miguel > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>> > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>> > >>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm > >>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >>>>> little > >>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but > >>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>> Janette > >>>>> > >>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>>>> > >>> Castro > >>> > >>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>>>>> > >> case > >> > >>>>>> he was > >>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>>>> > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>>>>>> > >> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >> > >>> it was > >>> > >>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>>>>> > >>> particular > >>> > >>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>>>>> > >>> sent me > >>> > >>>>>>> on > >>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You > >>>>>>>> > >> have > >> > >>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > >>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto > >>>>>>>> > >> Santo prison. > >> > >>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>>>>>>> > >> job? > >> > >>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- > >>>>>>>> > >> Idon't > >> > >>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>>>>>>> > >> friend, > >> > >>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small > >>>>>>>> > >> in stature, but not in dignity. > >> > >>>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>>> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Tom, Madeira is a small place. So far, Families are quite identified and analyzed. People with the same name from the same area and and the same time are almost "condemned" to be from the same family. Unless the Agrella was a name given to a slave - and that could happen, because slaves used to have the name of their owner - all the Agrellas from Madeira are relatives. So I support your bet ;- ) Miguel de CH. On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Scott, > > I would bet that your de Agrella's are related to mine but I do not see any > connection. They are all from the same place in Madeira. You can view my > de Agrella's at http://freitasfamily.tribalpages.com/ Password is madeira > > Tom Freitas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > Miguel, > > Take a look at this tree: > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > Thanks, Scot > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > Hello David, > > > > Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > > Madeira, > > transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is > > probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > Madeira. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >> Thanks, > >> David DeGrella > >> Tennessee, USA > >> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >> writes: > >> > >>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca > >>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems > >>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and > >>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > >>> going > >>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>> thanks > >>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check > >>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>> Janette > >>> > >>> > >>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hello Janette, > >>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > > >>>> field day > >>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>> > >>> to Pereira d'Agrela. > >>> > >>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>> Travassos m. > >>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>> manifests 2 or > >>>> three generations later. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Miguel > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>> > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>> > >>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm > >>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >>>>> little > >>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but > >>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>> Janette > >>>>> > >>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>>>> > >>> Castro > >>> > >>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>>>>> > >> case > >> > >>>>>> he was > >>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>>>> > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>>>>>> > >> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >> > >>> it was > >>> > >>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>>>>> > >>> particular > >>> > >>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>>>>> > >>> sent me > >>> > >>>>>>> on > >>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You > >>>>>>>> > >> have > >> > >>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > >>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto > >>>>>>>> > >> Santo prison. > >> > >>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>>>>>>> > >> job? > >> > >>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- > >>>>>>>> > >> Idon't > >> > >>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>>>>>>> > >> friend, > >> > >>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small > >>>>>>>> > >> in stature, but not in dignity. > >> > >>>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>>> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Is this the same Pedro Goncalves Cesar that married Maria Goncalves in Camara de Lobos in 1670? If so, I have different parents (sourced as Leandro). I show his parents to be Manuel Ferreira (son of Domingos Ferreira & Andresa Lopes)m Beatriz Jorge (daughter of Pedro Goncalves & Mecia Goncalves), 10 Aug 1633, in Camara de Lobos...which works much better as far as timeline, don't you agree? Leandro might have more details about this... Cece -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Chaves from Câmara de Lobos I have (as ancestors of Pedro Gonçalves César) Manuel Afonso m. 1588 CL Beatriz Jorge. Found in Pereira de Agrela that Beatriz Jorge was the dau. of Estêvão Luís and Catarina de Chaves. So, becuase as far as I know there are not many Chaves in that time (excluding the Figueira de Chaves, but these will use Figueira or Figueira de Chaves) ) , I suppose that Catarina de Chaves was the dau. of Gonçalo Jorge (de Chaves) son of Jorge Fernandes de Chaves and Ana Luís.( p.d. of Vasco Gonçalves de Chaves and Catarina Fernandes de Vares) m- Leonor Teixeira (dau. of João Teixeira Escórcio and Branca de Vasconcelos. p.d. of Pedro Teixeira and Catarina Escórcio. What do you think? Miguel de CH - ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.114/2575 - Release Date: 12/21/09 19:13:00

I think the couple Manuel de Agrela Maria Preta is referred in FMPS, but not in the Agrela's title. I am going to have a look and see if I can find them there. Anyway they look like the real stuff. I mean, descended from the original Agrellas who settled in Madeira. On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Scot Austin <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel, > > Take a look at this tree: > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > Thanks, Scot > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > Hello David, > > > > Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > Madeira, > > transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is > > probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > Madeira. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >> Thanks, > >> David DeGrella > >> Tennessee, USA > >> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >> writes: > >> > >>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca > >>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems > >>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and > >>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > >>> going > >>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>> thanks > >>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check > >>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>> Janette > >>> > >>> > >>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hello Janette, > >>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > > >>>> field day > >>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>> > >>> to Pereira d'Agrela. > >>> > >>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>> Travassos m. > >>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>> manifests 2 or > >>>> three generations later. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Miguel > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>> > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>> > >>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm > >>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >>>>> little > >>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but > >>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>> Janette > >>>>> > >>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>>>> > >>> Castro > >>> > >>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>>>>> > >> case > >> > >>>>>> he was > >>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>>>> > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>>>>>> > >> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >> > >>> it was > >>> > >>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>>>>> > >>> particular > >>> > >>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>>>>> > >>> sent me > >>> > >>>>>>> on > >>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You > >>>>>>>> > >> have > >> > >>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > >>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto > >>>>>>>> > >> Santo prison. > >> > >>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>>>>>>> > >> job? > >> > >>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- > >>>>>>>> > >> Idon't > >> > >>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>>>>>>> > >> friend, > >> > >>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small > >>>>>>>> > >> in stature, but not in dignity. > >> > >>>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>>> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Juanita, Sorry about that. When I get to my office after January 4 I will see if I can put it into PDF. If I forget, please remind me. If everything else fails I will mail it or fax it. Jose Fernandes -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: December 21, 2009 4:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira Jose: We cannot read the genealogy of the Berenguers in the form you sent it. Is there any other way you can scan this information or fax it to me? I will gladly reimburse you for any costs involved. I really appreciate your help. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jose: We cannot read the genealogy of the Berenguers in the form you sent it. Is there any other way you can scan this information or fax it to me? I will gladly reimburse you for any costs involved. I really appreciate your help.

http://picasaweb.google.pt/cisne888/ This lady posted 9 books online  of Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 4:32:21 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela You can also try Pereira de Agrela in Google books instead of Pereira d'Agrela. On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will > find > some mention of possibly him. > > I found the following passage: > > aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho Pereira > d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. >  Eran > ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara, por ouja > morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo, que era o > successor no morgadio. > > I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this may or > may > not be your d'Agrela. > > Tom Freitas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > Miguel, > > Take a look at this tree: > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > Thanks, Scot > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > Hello David, > > > > Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > > Madeira, > > transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is > > probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > Madeira. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> I'm confused.  Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >> Thanks, > >> David DeGrella > >> Tennessee, USA > >> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >> writes: > >> > >>> Thanks Miguel.  I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca > >>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems > >>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and > >>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all.  I was > >>> going > >>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>> thanks > >>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>> record sent to me circa 2002 : ))  Thanks Pat!  I will have to check > >>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>> Janette > >>> > >>> > >>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hello Janette, > >>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a  > > >>>> field day > >>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>> > >>> to  Pereira d'Agrela. > >>> > >>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>> Travassos m. > >>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>> manifests 2 or > >>>> three generations later. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Miguel > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>> > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>> > >>>>> Wow!  Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me.  I'm > >>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know.  I'm still at a > >>>>> little > >>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but > >>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>> Janette > >>>>> > >>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>>>> > >>> Castro > >>> > >>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>>>>> > >> case > >> > >>>>>> he was > >>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>>>> > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks Miguel.  Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>>>>>> > >>  de Agrela.  I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >> > >>> it was > >>> > >>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>>>>> > >>> particular > >>> > >>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>>>>> > >>> sent me > >>> > >>>>>>> on > >>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You > >>>>>>>> > >> have > >> > >>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de  Agrela. > >>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once  I > >>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose  alcunha > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in  charge of Porto > >>>>>>>> > >>  Santo prison. > >> > >>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>>>>>>> > >> job? > >> > >>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical.  answer- > >>>>>>>> > >> Idon't > >> > >>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>>>>>>> > >> friend, > >> > >>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid,  one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very  small > >>>>>>>> > >> in stature, but not in dignity. > >> > >>>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>>> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tom, I think our Pedro was born about 1565. I don't read Portuguese, but it looks like this one was quite a bit later. Did he die in 1835 or was it his son? Scot [email protected] wrote: > if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will find > some mention of possibly him. > > I found the following passage: > > aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho Pereira > d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. Eran > ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara, por ouja > morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo, que era o > successor no morgadio. > > I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this may or may > not be your d'Agrela. > > Tom Freitas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > Miguel, > > Take a look at this tree: > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > Thanks, Scot > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >> Hello David, >> >> Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from >> Madeira, >> transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is >> probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in Madeira. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Miguel >> >> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? >>> Thanks, >>> David DeGrella >>> Tennessee, USA >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> >>> writes: >>> >>> >>>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was >>>> going >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >>>> thanks >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >>>> Janette >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > >>>>> field day >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >>>>> >>>>> >>>> to Pereira d'Agrela. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>>>> Travassos m. >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>>>> manifests 2 or >>>>> three generations later. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Miguel >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >>>>> >>>>> >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Miguel, >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm >>>>>> sincerely grateful. >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >>>>>> little >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>>>> Janette >>>>>> >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>>>> ( dau. of >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>>>> Baltazar >>>>>>> Manuel >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> Castro >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> and Luzia >>>>>>> Fernandes >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> case >>> >>> >>>>>>> he was >>>>>>> not accurate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >>> >>> >>>> it was >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> particular >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> sent me >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> have >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. >>>>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I >>>>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> Santo prison. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> job? >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> Idon't >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> friend, >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> such is >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> in stature, but not in dignity. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thank goodness some of these survived. And thankfully, there are still people interested in preserving history. I keep hoping (call me an optimist) that there will be an archeological discovery that will answer so many of our questions : ) Janette On 20-Dec-09, at 5:54 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Pereira d'Agrella work is a manuscript. It has several tomes, and > perhaps > 700 pages or more. I have not counted them. It is an interesting work > because it takes a broad view of some families that usually are not > referred > in the other nobiliaries. It is a nobiliary. Pereira de Agrela had > the > chance to see several documents that since him were lost, ruined or > eaten by > mice, moth, worms, and human carelessness (the worst and more > damaging). > Old documents could stay in damp places for ages. Some miraculously > survived > but many disappeared. And the worst thing is that many disappeared > or were > ruined due to lack of care during the 19 th century . Older people > respected > a bit more the written documents. But with the emergence of print, > old stuff > was groovy, old was outdated, considered rubish, except by some few > like > Pereira d'Agrela. > His g-gdaughter, an extremely generous person, told me several > things about > his ancestor. Curiously since him all the Agrellas have devoted > themselves > to genealogy until our days, where their representative - my > cousin- is > still investigating. > > > Miguel > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> He was a genealogist in Madeira during the 1700s. >> >> The title page on the extract I have is: Genealogias da ilha da >> Madeira por Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella. (Este autor nasceu em >> mais de 1777 no Funchal, onde morreu em fevereiro de 1835). It's all >> in script, so I hope I've read that correctly. Loosely translated it >> says Genealogies of the Island of Madeira by Joao Agostinho Pereira >> d'Agrela. (This author was born before 1777 in Funchal where he died >> in February 1835). >> >> I have no idea how extensive his volume of work is - as mentioned I >> only have 33 pages (that I know of : ) - but Miguel makes reference >> to >> pg 166, so my guess - extensive. I also don't know if this is >> available anywhere online. I will look to see if I have any more >> files that might complete this volume. I'm happy to share what I >> have >> on this particular genealogist if anyone is interested, please email >> me at [email protected] At this stage, it looks like the Aguares >> de Machico, Garros, Ferreiras de Arco, Pereiras das Florencas, >> Agrellas, Baioes, Borges. I've printed the pages off to try and make >> sense of them as most don't have any page numbers and it doesn't >> appear to be in alphabetical order. >> >> >> >> Janette >> >> >> On 19-Dec-09, at 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? >>> Thanks, >>> David DeGrella >>> Tennessee, USA >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun >>> <[email protected]> >>> writes: >>>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & >>>> Mendonca >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, >>>> seems >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, >>>> and >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was >>>> going >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >>>> thanks >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to >>>> check >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >>>> Janette >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was >>>>> a > >>>>> field day >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >>>> to Pereira d'Agrela. >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>>>> Travassos m. >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>>>> manifests 2 or >>>>> three generations later. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Miguel >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Miguel, >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> sincerely grateful. >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >>>>>> little >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, >>>>>> but >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>>>> Janette >>> >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>> >>>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>>>> ( dau. of >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>>>> Baltazar >>>>>>> Manuel >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >>>> Castro >>>>>>> and Luzia >>>>>>> Fernandes >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular >>> case >>>>>>> he was >>>>>>> not accurate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira >>> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >>>> it was >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >>>> particular >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >>>> sent me >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >>> >>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, >>>>>>>>> You >>> have >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de >>>>>>>>> Agrela. >>>>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. >>>>>>>>> Once I >>>>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose >>>>>>>>> alcunha >>> >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of >>>>>>>>> Porto >>> Santo prison. >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible >>> job? >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. >>>>>>>>> answer- >>> Idon't >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good >>> friend, >>>>>>>>> such is >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very >>>>>>>>> small >>> in stature, but not in dignity. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Miguel >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will find some mention of possibly him. I found the following passage: aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. Eran ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara, por ouja morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo, que era o successor no morgadio. I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this may or may not be your d'Agrela. Tom Freitas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela Miguel, Take a look at this tree: http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? Thanks, Scot Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Hello David, > > Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > Madeira, > transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is > probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in Madeira. > > > Cheers, > > > Miguel > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? >> Thanks, >> David DeGrella >> Tennessee, USA >> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> >> writes: >> >>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca >>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems >>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and >>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was >>> going >>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >>> thanks >>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check >>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >>> Janette >>> >>> >>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hello Janette, >>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > >>>> field day >>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >>>> >>> to Pereira d'Agrela. >>> >>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>>> Travassos m. >>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>>> manifests 2 or >>>> three generations later. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Miguel >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >>>> >>> <[email protected]> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Miguel, >>>>> >>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm >>>>> sincerely grateful. >>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >>>>> little >>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but >>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>>> Janette >>>>> >>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>>> ( dau. of >>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>>> Baltazar >>>>>> Manuel >>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >>>>>> >>> Castro >>> >>>>>> and Luzia >>>>>> Fernandes >>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular >>>>>> >> case >> >>>>>> he was >>>>>> not accurate. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Miguel >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >>>>>> >>> <[email protected]> >>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira >>>>>>> >> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >> >>> it was >>> >>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >>>>>>> >>> particular >>> >>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >>>>>>> >>> sent me >>> >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You >>>>>>>> >> have >> >>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. >>>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I >>>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto >>>>>>>> >> Santo prison. >> >>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible >>>>>>>> >> job? >> >>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- >>>>>>>> >> Idon't >> >>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good >>>>>>>> >> friend, >> >>>>>>>> such is >>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small >>>>>>>> >> in stature, but not in dignity. >> >>>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Scott, I would bet that your de Agrella's are related to mine but I do not see any connection. They are all from the same place in Madeira. You can view my de Agrella's at http://freitasfamily.tribalpages.com/ Password is madeira Tom Freitas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela Miguel, Take a look at this tree: http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? Thanks, Scot Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Hello David, > > Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > Madeira, > transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is > probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in Madeira. > > > Cheers, > > > Miguel > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? >> Thanks, >> David DeGrella >> Tennessee, USA >> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> >> writes: >> >>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca >>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems >>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and >>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was >>> going >>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >>> thanks >>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check >>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >>> Janette >>> >>> >>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hello Janette, >>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > >>>> field day >>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >>>> >>> to Pereira d'Agrela. >>> >>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>>> Travassos m. >>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>>> manifests 2 or >>>> three generations later. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Miguel >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >>>> >>> <[email protected]> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Miguel, >>>>> >>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm >>>>> sincerely grateful. >>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >>>>> little >>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but >>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>>> Janette >>>>> >>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>>> ( dau. of >>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>>> Baltazar >>>>>> Manuel >>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >>>>>> >>> Castro >>> >>>>>> and Luzia >>>>>> Fernandes >>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular >>>>>> >> case >> >>>>>> he was >>>>>> not accurate. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Miguel >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >>>>>> >>> <[email protected]> >>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira >>>>>>> >> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >> >>> it was >>> >>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >>>>>>> >>> particular >>> >>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >>>>>>> >>> sent me >>> >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You >>>>>>>> >> have >> >>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. >>>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I >>>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto >>>>>>>> >> Santo prison. >> >>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible >>>>>>>> >> job? >> >>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- >>>>>>>> >> Idon't >> >>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good >>>>>>>> >> friend, >> >>>>>>>> such is >>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small >>>>>>>> >> in stature, but not in dignity. >> >>>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel, Take a look at this tree: http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? Thanks, Scot Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Hello David, > > Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from Madeira, > transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is > probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in Madeira. > > > Cheers, > > > Miguel > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? >> Thanks, >> David DeGrella >> Tennessee, USA >> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> >> writes: >> >>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca >>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems >>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and >>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was >>> going >>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >>> thanks >>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check >>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >>> Janette >>> >>> >>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hello Janette, >>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > >>>> field day >>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >>>> >>> to Pereira d'Agrela. >>> >>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>>> Travassos m. >>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>>> manifests 2 or >>>> three generations later. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Miguel >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >>>> >>> <[email protected]> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Miguel, >>>>> >>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm >>>>> sincerely grateful. >>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >>>>> little >>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but >>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>>> Janette >>>>> >>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>>> ( dau. of >>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>>> Baltazar >>>>>> Manuel >>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >>>>>> >>> Castro >>> >>>>>> and Luzia >>>>>> Fernandes >>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular >>>>>> >> case >> >>>>>> he was >>>>>> not accurate. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Miguel >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >>>>>> >>> <jan[email protected]> >>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira >>>>>>> >> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >> >>> it was >>> >>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >>>>>>> >>> particular >>> >>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >>>>>>> >>> sent me >>> >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You >>>>>>>> >> have >> >>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. >>>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I >>>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto >>>>>>>> >> Santo prison. >> >>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible >>>>>>>> >> job? >> >>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- >>>>>>>> >> Idon't >> >>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good >>>>>>>> >> friend, >> >>>>>>>> such is >>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small >>>>>>>> >> in stature, but not in dignity. >> >>>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Oh thank you so much. I have been waiting to see my husband's mother's family names mentioned on this website, but so far none have appeared. We have had some genealogy done for us but it's still fascinating to acquire a little personal history of these people. Other names are Moniz, Vasconcellos, Meneses, Teixeira, Jaques and Dealencastre. Since several of our family carry the name Berenguer, I was especially interested in that line and the original Berenguer. I know it's a Catalan name. We have friends in Washington who can give us a translation. Again, thank you. Juanita Santos

I discovered this in Pereira d'Agrela: 1) Pedro de Figueiroa, came from the Island of Faial to Madeira, 154 ...son of João de Figueiroa and Aldonça Fernandes, they had: 2 F.co de Figueiroa m. Violante Vaz 2 M.el de Figueiroa 2 Catarina de Figueiroa 2) Manuel de Figueiroa, received a coat of arms in June 21, 1566, died in 1575 (instituted a "morgadio") m. Violante Dutra, dau of Barnabé Dutra form Galiza. 3 Barnabé Dutra 3 Manuel de Figueiró Dutra 3 Violante Dutra Cheers, Miguel

Hello Miguel, Your are correct. I am a decedent of a "de Agrella" from Madeira. My great-grandfather, Alexandre de Agrella and his wife, Francisca Candida da Silva, came from Madeira and arrived in New York City in September 1851. A few years back, a member of this list confirmed my theory that English speaking Americans could not hear the "A" in Agrella due to a tendency to run the "E" in "de" and the "A" in "Agrella together when the full name was spoken. As a result the name was written as either "DeGrella" or "DeGrilla". Thanks, David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:55:13 +0000 Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> writes: > Hello David, > > Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from Madeira, > transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is > probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in Madeira. > > Cheers, > > Miguel > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > > Thanks, > > David DeGrella > > Tennessee, USA > > On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun > <[email protected]> > > writes: > > > Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & > Mendonca > > > names, although carried by the male line in later generations, > seems > > > to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, > and > > > now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > > > Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I > was > > > going > > > through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > > > thanks > > > to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this > genealogical > > > record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to > check > > > my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed > away. > > > Janette > > > > > > > > > On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > > > > > Hello Janette, > > > > You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was > a > > > > > field day > > > > too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. > Thanks > > > to Pereira d'Agrela. > > > > Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first > Manuel > > > > Travassos m. > > > > Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > > > > manifests 2 or > > > > three generations later. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > > > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hello Miguel, > > > >> > > > >> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. > I'm > > > >> sincerely grateful. > > > >> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at > a > > > >> little > > > >> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this > line, but > > > >> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > > > >> Janette > > > > > >> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > > > >>> Hello Janette, > > > >>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > > > >>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > > > >>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de > Góis > > > >>> ( dau. of > > > >>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they > had: > > > >>> Baltazar > > > >>> Manuel > > > >>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > > > >>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > > > >>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > > > Castro > > > >>> and Luzia > > > >>> Fernandes > > > >>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > > > >>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this > particular > > case > > > >>> he was > > > >>> not accurate. > > > >>> > > > >>> Cheers, > > > >>> > > > >>> Miguel > > > >>> > > > >>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > > > <[email protected]> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado > Pereira > > de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, > but > > > it was > > > >>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > > > particular > > > >>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the > archive > > > sent me > > > >>>> on > > > >>>> the Gois family. > > > >>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so > far > > > >>>> haven't > > > >>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep > looking. > > > > > >>>> Janette > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are > available, You > > have > > > >>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > > > >>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > Agrela. > > > >>>>> Geneall has > > > >>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal > best > > > >>>>> Madeiran > > > >>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list > colleagues > > > >>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. > Once I > > > >>>>> looked for > > > >>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > > > >>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose > alcunha > > > > > >>>>> was > > > >>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge > of Porto > > Santo prison. > > > >>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such > a > > > >>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a > terrible > > job? > > > >>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. > answer- > > Idon't > > > >>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my > good > > friend, > > > >>>>> such is > > > >>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the > same > > > >>>>> position as myself." > > > >>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very > small > > in stature, but not in dignity. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Miguel > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Pereira d'Agrella work is a manuscript. It has several tomes, and perhaps 700 pages or more. I have not counted them. It is an interesting work because it takes a broad view of some families that usually are not referred in the other nobiliaries. It is a nobiliary. Pereira de Agrela had the chance to see several documents that since him were lost, ruined or eaten by mice, moth, worms, and human carelessness (the worst and more damaging). Old documents could stay in damp places for ages. Some miraculously survived but many disappeared. And the worst thing is that many disappeared or were ruined due to lack of care during the 19 th century . Older people respected a bit more the written documents. But with the emergence of print, old stuff was groovy, old was outdated, considered rubish, except by some few like Pereira d'Agrela. His g-gdaughter, an extremely generous person, told me several things about his ancestor. Curiously since him all the Agrellas have devoted themselves to genealogy until our days, where their representative - my cousin- is still investigating. Miguel On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> wrote: > He was a genealogist in Madeira during the 1700s. > > The title page on the extract I have is: Genealogias da ilha da > Madeira por Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella. (Este autor nasceu em > mais de 1777 no Funchal, onde morreu em fevereiro de 1835). It's all > in script, so I hope I've read that correctly. Loosely translated it > says Genealogies of the Island of Madeira by Joao Agostinho Pereira > d'Agrela. (This author was born before 1777 in Funchal where he died > in February 1835). > > I have no idea how extensive his volume of work is - as mentioned I > only have 33 pages (that I know of : ) - but Miguel makes reference to > pg 166, so my guess - extensive. I also don't know if this is > available anywhere online. I will look to see if I have any more > files that might complete this volume. I'm happy to share what I have > on this particular genealogist if anyone is interested, please email > me at [email protected] At this stage, it looks like the Aguares > de Machico, Garros, Ferreiras de Arco, Pereiras das Florencas, > Agrellas, Baioes, Borges. I've printed the pages off to try and make > sense of them as most don't have any page numbers and it doesn't > appear to be in alphabetical order. > > > > Janette > > > On 19-Dec-09, at 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > > Thanks, > > David DeGrella > > Tennessee, USA > > On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> > > writes: > >> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca > >> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems > >> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and > >> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > >> going > >> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >> thanks > >> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check > >> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >> Janette > >> > >> > >> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >> > >>> Hello Janette, > >>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > > >>> field day > >>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >> to Pereira d'Agrela. > >>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>> Travassos m. > >>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>> manifests 2 or > >>> three generations later. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Miguel > >>> > >>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >> <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>> > >>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm > >>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >>>> little > >>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, > >>>> but > >>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>> Janette > > > >>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > >>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>> Baltazar > >>>>> Manuel > >>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >> Castro > >>>>> and Luzia > >>>>> Fernandes > >>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > > case > >>>>> he was > >>>>> not accurate. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >> <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > > de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >> it was > >>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >> particular > >>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >> sent me > >>>>>> on > >>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>> haven't > >>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > > > >>>>>> Janette > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You > > have > >>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > >>>>>>> Agrela. > >>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > >>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > > > >>>>>>> was > >>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of > >>>>>>> Porto > > Santo prison. > >>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > > job? > >>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- > > Idon't > >>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > > friend, > >>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small > > in stature, but not in dignity. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Miguel > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello David, Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from Madeira, transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the genealogist is probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in Madeira. Cheers, Miguel On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > Thanks, > David DeGrella > Tennessee, USA > On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> > writes: > > Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca > > names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems > > to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and > > now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > > Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > > going > > through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > > thanks > > to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > > record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check > > my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > > Janette > > > > > > On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > > > Hello Janette, > > > You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > > > > field day > > > too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > > to Pereira d'Agrela. > > > Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > > > Travassos m. > > > Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > > > manifests 2 or > > > three generations later. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Miguel > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > > <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hello Miguel, > > >> > > >> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm > > >> sincerely grateful. > > >> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > > >> little > > >> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but > > >> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > > >> Janette > > > >> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > >>> Hello Janette, > > >>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > > >>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > > >>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > > >>> ( dau. of > > >>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > > >>> Baltazar > > >>> Manuel > > >>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > > >>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > > >>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > > Castro > > >>> and Luzia > > >>> Fernandes > > >>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > > >>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > case > > >>> he was > > >>> not accurate. > > >>> > > >>> Cheers, > > >>> > > >>> Miguel > > >>> > > >>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > > <[email protected]> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > > it was > > >>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > > particular > > >>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > > sent me > > >>>> on > > >>>> the Gois family. > > >>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > > >>>> haven't > > >>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > > > >>>> Janette > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You > have > > >>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > > >>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. > > >>>>> Geneall has > > >>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > > >>>>> Madeiran > > >>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > > >>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > > >>>>> looked for > > >>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > > >>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > > > >>>>> was > > >>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto > Santo prison. > > >>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > > >>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > job? > > >>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- > Idon't > > >>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > friend, > > >>>>> such is > > >>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > > >>>>> position as myself." > > >>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small > in stature, but not in dignity. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Miguel > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Janette, You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a field day too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks to Pereira d'Agrela. Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel Travassos m. Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor manifests 2 or three generations later. Cheers, Miguel On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Miguel, > > Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm > sincerely grateful. > > I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a little > confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, but > hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > > Janette > On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Hello Janette, > > > > In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > > > > > > 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > > 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis ( dau. of > > Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > > > > Baltazar > > Manuel > > Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > > Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > > Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de Castro > > and Luzia > > Fernandes > > > > The Travassos were from the nobility. > > > > I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular case > > he was > > not accurate. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira de > >> Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but it > >> was > >> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this particular > >> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive sent me > >> on > >> the Gois family. > >> > >> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far haven't > >> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >> > >> Janette > >> > >> > >> > >> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >> > >>> Well, > >>> > >>> > >>> You proibably know already all that are available, You have > >>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de Agrela. > >>> Geneall has > >>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best Madeiran > >>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>> > >>> > >>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I > >>> looked for > >>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>> > >>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha was > >>> " O > >>> Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of Porto Santo > >>> prison. > >>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>> station. What > >>> you, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible job? > >>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- I > >>> don't > >>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good friend, > >>> such is > >>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>> position as > >>> myself." > >>> > >>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small in > >>> stature, > >>> but not in dignity. > >>> > >>> Miguel > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks Miguel. I have a some information on the Calacas and > >>>> Ornellas. > >>>> Any pointers on other resources for informaton on the Texeiras, > >>>> Castros, etc. ? > >>>> > >>>> Janette > >>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 7:49 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Bingo! I was sure he was from Porto Santo. He probably connects > >>>>> with > >>>>> the > >>>>> first Travassos from Porto Santo. > >>>>> > >>>>> And so with the Teixeiras, Calaças, Castros, Mendonças. > >>>>> Vasconcelos > >>>>> and > >>>>> Ornelas. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> regards, > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Miguel, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1600s - the marriage date is 1649 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Manuel Travassos Isabel de Góis Porto Santo 1649 > >>>>>> 991 > >>>>>> 26 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks. > >>>>>> Janette > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 4:47 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> From which year is he? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The name is not very common. It is very ancient. It is a > >>>>>>> toponymic. > >>>>>>> And the > >>>>>>> Travassos from the XVI th century were considered as nobility. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> regards, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Janette Chun <[email protected] > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> With the invaluable help of Luis Beal, I now have an ancestor > >>>>>>>> named > >>>>>>>> Manuel Travassos. I've never come across this last name > >>>>>>>> before - > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> a quick internet search revealed that there are quite a few. > >>>>>>>> Does > >>>>>>>> anyone know the origins of this name? Is it common in Madeira? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 9:40 PM, Janette Chun wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thanks Luis! No not gothic yet....LOL > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I will email the pdf files to the address you provided. > >>>>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>>>> again. > >>>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 2-Dec-09, at 10:14 AM, Luis Beal wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> That was me. Just e-mail an attachment to [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> 1600's I hope it isn't gothic cause that I can't read :) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Luis Beal > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain > >>>>>>>>>> perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life > >>>>>>>>>> unless > >>>>>>>>>> it is woven into the life of our ancestors." > >>>>>>>>>> Cicero, Roman orator > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> From: Janette Chun <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>> To: PRT-MADEIRA <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 9:27:18 AM > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hello all, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I've enjoyed the exchange of emails over the last few weeks. > >>>>>>>>>> Great to > >>>>>>>>>> see the forum active again. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I recall reading an offer to help read some certificates but > >>>>>>>>>> can't > >>>>>>>>>> remember who : ( - old age! I recently received two > >>>>>>>>>> certificates > >>>>>>>>>> from the 1600s which are a little difficult to decipher - I > >>>>>>>>>> think > >>>>>>>>>> I've > >>>>>>>>>> sort of figured it out, but would welcome a second opinion as > >>>>>>>>>> I'm > >>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>> familiar with some of the abbreviations. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Janette Chun > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> the body of the message > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> the body of the message > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>>>>>> without the > >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> the body of the message > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>>>> without the > >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] > >>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > >>>>> the body of the message > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> without the > >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] > >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > >>> the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

He was a genealogist in Madeira during the 1700s. The title page on the extract I have is: Genealogias da ilha da Madeira por Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella. (Este autor nasceu em mais de 1777 no Funchal, onde morreu em fevereiro de 1835). It's all in script, so I hope I've read that correctly. Loosely translated it says Genealogies of the Island of Madeira by Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela. (This author was born before 1777 in Funchal where he died in February 1835). I have no idea how extensive his volume of work is - as mentioned I only have 33 pages (that I know of : ) - but Miguel makes reference to pg 166, so my guess - extensive. I also don't know if this is available anywhere online. I will look to see if I have any more files that might complete this volume. I'm happy to share what I have on this particular genealogist if anyone is interested, please email me at [email protected] At this stage, it looks like the Aguares de Machico, Garros, Ferreiras de Arco, Pereiras das Florencas, Agrellas, Baioes, Borges. I've printed the pages off to try and make sense of them as most don't have any page numbers and it doesn't appear to be in alphabetical order. Janette On 19-Dec-09, at 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: > I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > Thanks, > David DeGrella > Tennessee, USA > On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> > writes: >> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca >> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems >> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and >> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was >> going >> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >> thanks >> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check >> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >> Janette >> >> >> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >> >>> Hello Janette, >>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > >>> field day >>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >> to Pereira d'Agrela. >>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>> Travassos m. >>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>> manifests 2 or >>> three generations later. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Miguel >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >> <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Miguel, >>>> >>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm >>>> sincerely grateful. >>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >>>> little >>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, >>>> but >>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>> Janette > >>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>> ( dau. of >>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>> Baltazar >>>>> Manuel >>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >> Castro >>>>> and Luzia >>>>> Fernandes >>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > case >>>>> he was >>>>> not accurate. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Miguel >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >> <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >> it was >>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >> particular >>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >> sent me >>>>>> on >>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>> haven't >>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>>>> Janette >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You > have >>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de >>>>>>> Agrela. >>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I >>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of >>>>>>> Porto > Santo prison. >>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > job? >>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- > Idon't >>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > friend, >>>>>>> such is >>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small > in stature, but not in dignity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Miguel > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message