I don't know if the book present in Picasa has an index at the end. It may. I have the work in files that my cousin sent me long time ago. Some files, which interested me particularly, I have printed - like the Correias Mirandas., the Chaves, the Afonso Pires, etc. Anyway, now we have almost all the Nobiliaries at our disposal. But what about the França e Vasconcelos nobiliary? Anyone can locate it? On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Luis Beal <[email protected]> wrote: > I have no idea. You guys were talking about this book so I googled it and > came across that link. My first thought was of an index too but if one > exists it will be at the very end of the book, the end of the last tomo. > Sorry that I can't be of more help, maybe Miguel knows, I believe he was > the one who made reference to the book. > Good luck, > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: JAndrade1 <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 5:50:20 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > Hey Luis, > I was looking at the picassa pages you linked to here. I hadn't seen > any references to this source before. What is its focus and how is it > organized? Seems that each of the tomes has 100s of pages so > searching it without an index of some type is tough, Could you give > me some guidance here, at least some idea of where to look? > > On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Luis Beal wrote: > > > http://picasaweb.google.pt/cisne888/ This lady posted 9 books online > of Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain > perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it > is woven into the life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 4:32:21 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > You can also try Pereira de Agrela in Google books instead of Pereira > d'Agrela. > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will > > find > > some mention of possibly him. > > > > I found the following passage: > > > > aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho > > Pereira > > d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. > > Eran > > ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara, > > por ouja > > morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo, > > que era o > > successor no morgadio. > > > > I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this > > may or > > may > > not be your d'Agrela. > > > > Tom Freitas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > Take a look at this tree: > > > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php? > > title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > > > Thanks, Scot > > > > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >> Hello David, > >> > >> Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > >> Madeira, > >> transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the > >> genealogist is > >> probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > > Madeira. > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> > >> Miguel > >> > >> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >>> Thanks, > >>> David DeGrella > >>> Tennessee, USA > >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> writes: > >>> > >>>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & > >>>> Mendonca > >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, > >>>> seems > >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, > >>>> and > >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > >>>> going > >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>>> thanks > >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to > >>>> check > >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was > >>>>> a > > >>>>> field day > >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>>> > >>>> to Pereira d'Agrela. > >>>> > >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>>> Travassos m. > >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>>> manifests 2 or > >>>>> three generations later. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>>> > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm > >>>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this > >>>>>> line, but > >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>>> Janette > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>>>>> > >>>> Castro > >>>> > >>>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>>>>>> > >>> case > >>> > >>>>>>> he was > >>>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>>>>> > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>>>>>>> > >>> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >>> > >>>> it was > >>>> > >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>>>>>> > >>>> particular > >>>> > >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>>>>>> > >>>> sent me > >>>> > >>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, > >>>>>>>>> You > >>>>>>>>> > >>> have > >>> > >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > >>>>>>>>> Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Once I > >>>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose > >>>>>>>>> alcunha > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of > >>>>>>>>> Porto > >>>>>>>>> > >>> Santo prison. > >>> > >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>>>>>>>> > >>> job? > >>> > >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. > >>>>>>>>> answer- > >>>>>>>>> > >>> Idon't > >>> > >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>>>>>>>> > >>> friend, > >>> > >>>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very > >>>>>>>>> small > >>>>>>>>> > >>> in stature, but not in dignity. > >>> > >>>>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>>>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Cece: I am starting a new thread because this was getting too long. It seems we have common Gaula ancestors. I have researched both couples Manuel Pires and Maria da Mata and eventually both of these couples go back to Afonso Pires and Isabel de Freitas. In one couple, the link is through Manuel Pires, in the other couple the link is through Maria da Mata. So we are definitely cousins through them, one way or another. :-) In one couple I come through Cristovao Pires and Bastiao Pires, sons of Bastiao Pires and Ana Martins. In the other couple I come through Isabel Fernandes, daughter of Bastiao Pires and Ana Martins and also through Simao Vieira and Catarina Jeronima. My Manuel Pires and Maria da Mata had a daughter whose children and grandchildren were baptized and raised in Machico. They eventually become the de Freitas in my line and, for those who are familiar with him, the ancestors of my great granduncle, Dr. Antonio Aurelio da Costa Ferreira. And his esteemed uncle, Joao Joaquim de Freitas. Mary

Hello Miguel: I have three notations regarding this: 1) Gaula 1690 879 150v Andre Martins da Mata filho Andre Martis da Mata e Isabel Vieira falaceu m Simoa da Mata filha of Pedro Goncalves Caxaxo, filho do escravo e Maria Jorge. 2) Gaula 1688 879 147v Felipe da Mata filho Joao Rodrigues e Barbara? Fernandes m Isabel da Mata filha Pedro Goncalves, filho do escravo e Maria Jorge 3) Gaula 1649 878 159 Pedro Goncalves filho Pedro Goncalves, Escravo e Maria da Mata falaceu m Maria Jorge filha Francisco Fernandes e Ana Jorge The marriage record of 1625 877 82v appears to be a different couple. That record states that Pedro Goncalves filho (unclear) Rodrigues? , falaceu e Isabel (unclear) m Maria da Mata filha Joao Martins (falaceu) e Juliana Rodrigues. I plan to go back to the FHC in the early part of the New Year. If the film is still there, I will be happy to go take another look. Since it was not in my line, I did not take extensive notes or concern myself with significance. I hope this helps clarify things. Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:11 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Hello Mary I checked ARM database and they have: Pedro Gonçalves Maria da Mata Gaula 1625 877 82 v.º However they don't report Pedro Gonçalves as slave. And if he was he would be indicated as slave. Even if he was freed he would be referred as "Escravo forro"- Do you still remember where did you got that info? Thanks in advance for any info. Miguel On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello Miguel: > I have some data on file that includes your people. > First- Pedro Goncalves who married Maria Jorge 1649 Gaula-occupation? > Caxaxo > Was the son of Pedro Goncalves a slave and Maria da Mata (deceased athe > time > of the wedding). Maria Jorge was the daughter of Francisco Fernandes and > Ana > Jorge. > I have wedding information on three of their children, including the > marriage of Andre Martins da Mata and Simoa da Mata 1690. > Does this help you? > Mary da Silva Frost > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:18 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Am looking for Pedro Gonçalves m ( 1649 Gaula) Maria Jorge. They had > Simoa > > da Mata. m. André Martins from the Martins da Mata. > > > > Thanks for any any info, > > > > > > Miguel de CH > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Mary I checked ARM database and they have: Pedro Gonçalves Maria da Mata Gaula 1625 877 82 v.º However they don't report Pedro Gonçalves as slave. And if he was he would be indicated as slave. Even if he was freed he would be referred as "Escravo forro"- Do you still remember where did you got that info? Thanks in advance for any info. Miguel On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello Miguel: > I have some data on file that includes your people. > First- Pedro Goncalves who married Maria Jorge 1649 Gaula-occupation? > Caxaxo > Was the son of Pedro Goncalves a slave and Maria da Mata (deceased athe > time > of the wedding). Maria Jorge was the daughter of Francisco Fernandes and > Ana > Jorge. > I have wedding information on three of their children, including the > marriage of Andre Martins da Mata and Simoa da Mata 1690. > Does this help you? > Mary da Silva Frost > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:18 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Am looking for Pedro Gonçalves m ( 1649 Gaula) Maria Jorge. They had > Simoa > > da Mata. m. André Martins from the Martins da Mata. > > > > Thanks for any any info, > > > > > > Miguel de CH > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I read very recenttly in one Madeira's blog (sorry did not took note) that Isabel de Freitas, supposed to be from the Freitas of Santa Cruz, actually is from the Freitas of Terras de Bouro, in Portugal. So she may link to the medieval Freitas. It will be perhaps rewarding to explore these Freitas of Terras do Bouro. I don't know nothing about them. I already asked on another list but to no avail. Afonso da Mata was an Escudeiro, and is supposed to link with the Matas from Certâ.(by PA) and Famílias de Gaula. I posted already something about them. Then I saw that Leandro's site has more or less the same line. I am also descended from Catarina Jerónima, and more of them. João Fernandes Pires seems to descend from the oldest Pires from Madeira. May be linked to licenciado Gonçalo Pires, who was a man of importance in his time. As Afonso da Mata was an Escudeiro, the Matas were minor nobility. Cheers, Miguel On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > I have a direct Mata line that eventually is found in Gaula... > Afonso da MATA & Isabel de FREITAS - they had > Isabel de FREITAS who m. Joao FERNANDES PIRES - they had > Joao PIRES DA MATA (m. Catarina DIAS) and Bastiao PIRES (m. Ana Martins) - > I > am descended from both of them. > It is about this generation that we begin seeing deaths and marriages in > Gaula...late 1500's. > Joao & Catarinas' daughter, Caterina Jeronima da MATA m. Simoa VIEIRA in > 1572 Gaula. (their son marries in Santa Cruz) > Bastiao and Ana's son, Bartolomeu PIRES m. Isabel GONCALVES 1587 in Gaula. > (they continue in Gaula) > > Cece > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:21 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula > > Thank you Mary, > > WOW! the information that has recently been posted by members of this list > group has been remarkable... I'm having a difficult time keeping up...but > love every minute of it!! ;-)... > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Frost" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:05:20 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula > > Pat: > Thank you but so far I do not have your Domingas da Mata in my family. Nor > do I have any links to Mendes de Vasconcelos. I always say "so far" > because > you know how that can change. :-) Through marriage and baptism records of > their various grandchildren in Machico, I know I am descended from Manuel > Pires and Maria da Mata of Gaula. > I am not absolutely positive which Manuel and Maria as there are two > couples > from Gaula with those exact names but I am somewhat certain that mine are > the couple married in 1650 in Gaula. > The records I presented for Miguel are only from the database I have > gathered during my research. Those people were not my ancestors. > > BTW- I just did a quick search in my Machico database and found a marriage > record for one of the children of your Domingas and Martim- son Joao > Baptista de Vasconcelos m 1633 Dona Isabel Calaca. Is this your direct > line? > > > Mary > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula > > Mary, > > I have a Domingas da Mata married to Martim Mendes de Vasconcelos,(Martim > is > my 5th cousin 11 times removed). > > Is Domingas one of your "Mata," family members? > She is the only Mata that I have in file, no additional info on her > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Frost" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:40:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula > > Hello Miguel: > I have some data on file that includes your people. > First- Pedro Goncalves who married Maria Jorge 1649 Gaula-occupation? > Caxaxo > Was the son of Pedro Goncalves a slave and Maria da Mata (deceased athe > time > of the wedding). Maria Jorge was the daughter of Francisco Fernandes and > Ana > Jorge. > I have wedding information on three of their children, including the > marriage of Andre Martins da Mata and Simoa da Mata 1690. > Does this help you? > Mary da Silva Frost > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:18 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Am looking for Pedro Gonçalves m ( 1649 Gaula) Maria Jorge. They had > > Simoa da Mata. m. André Martins from the Martins da Mata. > > > > Thanks for any any info, > > > > > > Miguel de CH > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this > incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date: 12/29/09 > 07:47:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Oops, I meant Tomo VI, not IV.   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Luis Beal <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 11:28:17 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela I looked at it and there is an index at the end of Tomo IV with pages listed under each book. The worst is that if you want to locate a page in a book it is guesswork as the pages have not been numbered. Just count 2 pages per sheet (meaning that for every 2 images it will be page 1 and page 1v.) and hopefully you can find the one you want :)   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 10:43:05 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela I don't know if the book present in Picasa has an index at the end. It may. I have the work in files that my cousin sent me long time ago. Some files, which interested me particularly, I have printed - like the Correias Mirandas., the Chaves, the Afonso Pires, etc. Anyway, now we have almost all the Nobiliaries at our disposal. But what about the França e Vasconcelos nobiliary? Anyone can locate it? On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Luis Beal <[email protected]> wrote: > I have no idea. You guys were talking about this book so I googled it and > came across that link. My first thought was of an index too but  if one > exists it will be at the very end of the book, the end of the last tomo. > Sorry that I can't be of more help, maybe Miguel knows, I believe he was > the one who made reference to the book. > Good luck, > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: JAndrade1 <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 5:50:20 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > Hey Luis, > I was looking at the picassa pages you linked to here. I hadn't seen > any references to this source before. What is its focus and how is it > organized? Seems that each of the tomes has 100s of pages so > searching it without an index of some type is tough, Could you give > me some guidance here, at least some idea of where to look? > > On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Luis Beal wrote: > > > http://picasaweb.google.pt/cisne888/ This lady posted 9 books online > of Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain > perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it > is woven into the life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 4:32:21 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > You can also try Pereira de Agrela in Google books instead of Pereira > d'Agrela. > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will > > find > > some mention of possibly him. > > > > I found the following passage: > > > > aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho > > Pereira > > d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. > >  Eran > > ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara, > > por ouja > > morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo, > > que era o > > successor no morgadio. > > > > I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this > > may or > > may > > not be your d'Agrela. > > > > Tom Freitas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > Take a look at this tree: > > > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php? > > title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > > > Thanks, Scot > > > > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >> Hello David, > >> > >> Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > >> Madeira, > >> transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the > >> genealogist is > >> probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > > Madeira. > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> > >> Miguel > >> > >> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I'm confused.  Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >>> Thanks, > >>> David DeGrella > >>> Tennessee, USA > >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> writes: > >>> > >>>> Thanks Miguel.  I find it quite interesting that the Gois & > >>>> Mendonca > >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, > >>>> seems > >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, > >>>> and > >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all.  I was > >>>> going > >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>>> thanks > >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : ))  Thanks Pat!  I will have to > >>>> check > >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was > >>>>> a  > > >>>>> field day > >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>>> > >>>> to  Pereira d'Agrela. > >>>> > >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>>> Travassos m. > >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>>> manifests 2 or > >>>>> three generations later. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>>> > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wow!  Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me.  I'm > >>>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know.  I'm still at a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this > >>>>>> line, but > >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>>> Janette > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>>>>> > >>>> Castro > >>>> > >>>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>>>>>> > >>> case > >>> > >>>>>>> he was > >>>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>>>>> > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel.  Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>>>>>>> > >>>  de Agrela.  I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >>> > >>>> it was > >>>> > >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>>>>>> > >>>> particular > >>>> > >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>>>>>> > >>>> sent me > >>>> > >>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, > >>>>>>>>> You > >>>>>>>>> > >>> have > >>> > >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > >>>>>>>>> Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Once  I > >>>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose > >>>>>>>>> alcunha > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in  charge of > >>>>>>>>> Porto > >>>>>>>>> > >>>  Santo prison. > >>> > >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>>>>>>>> > >>> job? > >>> > >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. > >>>>>>>>> answer- > >>>>>>>>> > >>> Idon't > >>> > >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>>>>>>>> > >>> friend, > >>> > >>>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid,  one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very > >>>>>>>>> small > >>>>>>>>> > >>> in stature, but not in dignity. > >>> > >>>>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>>>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I looked at it and there is an index at the end of Tomo IV with pages listed under each book. The worst is that if you want to locate a page in a book it is guesswork as the pages have not been numbered. Just count 2 pages per sheet (meaning that for every 2 images it will be page 1 and page 1v.) and hopefully you can find the one you want :)   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 10:43:05 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela I don't know if the book present in Picasa has an index at the end. It may. I have the work in files that my cousin sent me long time ago. Some files, which interested me particularly, I have printed - like the Correias Mirandas., the Chaves, the Afonso Pires, etc. Anyway, now we have almost all the Nobiliaries at our disposal. But what about the França e Vasconcelos nobiliary? Anyone can locate it? On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Luis Beal <[email protected]> wrote: > I have no idea. You guys were talking about this book so I googled it and > came across that link. My first thought was of an index too but  if one > exists it will be at the very end of the book, the end of the last tomo. > Sorry that I can't be of more help, maybe Miguel knows, I believe he was > the one who made reference to the book. > Good luck, > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a > child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the > life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: JAndrade1 <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 5:50:20 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > Hey Luis, > I was looking at the picassa pages you linked to here. I hadn't seen > any references to this source before. What is its focus and how is it > organized? Seems that each of the tomes has 100s of pages so > searching it without an index of some type is tough, Could you give > me some guidance here, at least some idea of where to look? > > On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Luis Beal wrote: > > > http://picasaweb.google.pt/cisne888/ This lady posted 9 books online > of Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella > > Luis Beal > > "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain > perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it > is woven into the life of our ancestors." > Cicero, Roman orator > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 4:32:21 PM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > You can also try Pereira de Agrela in Google books instead of Pereira > d'Agrela. > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will > > find > > some mention of possibly him. > > > > I found the following passage: > > > > aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho > > Pereira > > d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. > >  Eran > > ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara, > > por ouja > > morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo, > > que era o > > successor no morgadio. > > > > I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this > > may or > > may > > not be your d'Agrela. > > > > Tom Freitas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > Take a look at this tree: > > > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php? > > title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > > > Thanks, Scot > > > > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >> Hello David, > >> > >> Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from > >> Madeira, > >> transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the > >> genealogist is > >> probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > > Madeira. > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> > >> Miguel > >> > >> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I'm confused.  Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >>> Thanks, > >>> David DeGrella > >>> Tennessee, USA > >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> writes: > >>> > >>>> Thanks Miguel.  I find it quite interesting that the Gois & > >>>> Mendonca > >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, > >>>> seems > >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, > >>>> and > >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all.  I was > >>>> going > >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>>> thanks > >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : ))  Thanks Pat!  I will have to > >>>> check > >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was > >>>>> a  > > >>>>> field day > >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>>> > >>>> to  Pereira d'Agrela. > >>>> > >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>>> Travassos m. > >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>>> manifests 2 or > >>>>> three generations later. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>>> > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wow!  Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me.  I'm > >>>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know.  I'm still at a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this > >>>>>> line, but > >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>>> Janette > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>>>>> > >>>> Castro > >>>> > >>>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>>>>>> > >>> case > >>> > >>>>>>> he was > >>>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>>>>> > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel.  Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>>>>>>> > >>>  de Agrela.  I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >>> > >>>> it was > >>>> > >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>>>>>> > >>>> particular > >>>> > >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>>>>>> > >>>> sent me > >>>> > >>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, > >>>>>>>>> You > >>>>>>>>> > >>> have > >>> > >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > >>>>>>>>> Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Once  I > >>>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose > >>>>>>>>> alcunha > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in  charge of > >>>>>>>>> Porto > >>>>>>>>> > >>>  Santo prison. > >>> > >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>>>>>>>> > >>> job? > >>> > >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. > >>>>>>>>> answer- > >>>>>>>>> > >>> Idon't > >>> > >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>>>>>>>> > >>> friend, > >>> > >>>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid,  one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very > >>>>>>>>> small > >>>>>>>>> > >>> in stature, but not in dignity. > >>> > >>>>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>>>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hey Luis, I was looking at the picassa pages you linked to here. I hadn't seen any references to this source before. What is its focus and how is it organized? Seems that each of the tomes has 100s of pages so searching it without an index of some type is tough, Could you give me some guidance here, at least some idea of where to look? On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Luis Beal wrote: http://picasaweb.google.pt/cisne888/ This lady posted 9 books online of Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 4:32:21 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela You can also try Pereira de Agrela in Google books instead of Pereira d'Agrela. On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will > find > some mention of possibly him. > > I found the following passage: > > aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho > Pereira > d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. > Eran > ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara, > por ouja > morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo, > que era o > successor no morgadio. > > I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this > may or > may > not be your d'Agrela. > > Tom Freitas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > Miguel, > > Take a look at this tree: > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php? > title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > Thanks, Scot > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >> Hello David, >> >> Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from >> Madeira, >> transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the >> genealogist is >> probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > Madeira. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Miguel >> >> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >>> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? >>> Thanks, >>> David DeGrella >>> Tennessee, USA >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun >>> <[email protected]> >>> writes: >>> >>>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & >>>> Mendonca >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, >>>> seems >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, >>>> and >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was >>>> going >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >>>> thanks >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to >>>> check >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >>>> Janette >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was >>>>> a > >>>>> field day >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >>>>> >>>> to Pereira d'Agrela. >>>> >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>>>> Travassos m. >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>>>> manifests 2 or >>>>> three generations later. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Miguel >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >>>>> >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Miguel, >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm >>>>>> sincerely grateful. >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >>>>>> little >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this >>>>>> line, but >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>>>> Janette >>>>>> >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>>>> ( dau. of >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>>>> Baltazar >>>>>>> Manuel >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >>>>>>> >>>> Castro >>>> >>>>>>> and Luzia >>>>>>> Fernandes >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular >>>>>>> >>> case >>> >>>>>>> he was >>>>>>> not accurate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >>>>>>> >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira >>>>>>>> >>> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >>> >>>> it was >>>> >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >>>>>>>> >>>> particular >>>> >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >>>>>>>> >>>> sent me >>>> >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, >>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>> >>> have >>> >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de >>>>>>>>> Agrela. >>>>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. >>>>>>>>> Once I >>>>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose >>>>>>>>> alcunha >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of >>>>>>>>> Porto >>>>>>>>> >>> Santo prison. >>> >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible >>>>>>>>> >>> job? >>> >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. >>>>>>>>> answer- >>>>>>>>> >>> Idon't >>> >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good >>>>>>>>> >>> friend, >>> >>>>>>>>> such is >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very >>>>>>>>> small >>>>>>>>> >>> in stature, but not in dignity. >>> >>>>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>>>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have no idea. You guys were talking about this book so I googled it and came across that link. My first thought was of an index too but  if one exists it will be at the very end of the book, the end of the last tomo.  Sorry that I can't be of more help, maybe Miguel knows, I believe he was the one who made reference to the book. Good luck,   Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: JAndrade1 <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 5:50:20 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela Hey Luis, I was looking at the picassa pages you linked to here. I hadn't seen  any references to this source before. What is its focus and how is it  organized? Seems that each of the tomes has 100s of pages so  searching it without an index of some type is tough, Could you give  me some guidance here, at least some idea of where to look? On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Luis Beal wrote: http://picasaweb.google.pt/cisne888/ This lady posted 9 books online  of Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella Luis Beal "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain  perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it  is woven into the life of our ancestors." Cicero, Roman orator ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 4:32:21 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela You can also try Pereira de Agrela in Google books instead of Pereira d'Agrela. On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > if you go to http://www.google.com/books and type in d'agrela you will > find > some mention of possibly him. > > I found the following passage: > > aquelas informacoas sido tambem asseguradas por Pedro Agostinho  > Pereira > d'Agrela da Camara e por aquele Joao Diogo de quem hoave o manuscrito. >  Eran > ambos fithos do Morgado Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela da Camara,  > por ouja > morte, em Favereiro de 1835, ficou herdeiro da copia este ultimo,  > que era o > successor no morgadio. > > I may not have copied it correctly as it is hard to read and this  > may or > may > not be your d'Agrela. > > Tom Freitas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scot Austin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > > Miguel, > > Take a look at this tree: > > http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php? > title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Person:Nicolau_Agrela_%281%29 > Nicolau is my wife's 4g-grandfather. Can you tell how they fit in? > > Thanks, Scot > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >> Hello David, >> >> Janette ansered you already. Anyway you must be a "de Agrella" from >> Madeira, >> transformed in De Grella. And if so Pereira de Agrela the  >> genealogist is >> probably your relative, since there are not that many Agrellas in > Madeira. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Miguel >> >> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]>  >> wrote: >> >> >>> I'm confused.  Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? >>> Thanks, >>> David DeGrella >>> Tennessee, USA >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun  >>> <[email protected]> >>> writes: >>> >>>> Thanks Miguel.  I find it quite interesting that the Gois &  >>>> Mendonca >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations,  >>>> seems >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother,  >>>> and >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all.  I was >>>> going >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >>>> thanks >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : ))  Thanks Pat!  I will have to  >>>> check >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >>>> Janette >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was  >>>>> a  > >>>>> field day >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >>>>> >>>> to  Pereira d'Agrela. >>>> >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>>>> Travassos m. >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>>>> manifests 2 or >>>>> three generations later. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Miguel >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >>>>> >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Miguel, >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow!  Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me.  I'm >>>>>> sincerely grateful. >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know.  I'm still at a >>>>>> little >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this  >>>>>> line, but >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>>>> Janette >>>>>> >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>>>> ( dau. of >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>>>> Baltazar >>>>>>> Manuel >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >>>>>>> >>>> Castro >>>> >>>>>>> and Luzia >>>>>>> Fernandes >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular >>>>>>> >>> case >>> >>>>>>> he was >>>>>>> not accurate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >>>>>>> >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel.  Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira >>>>>>>> >>>  de Agrela.  I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >>> >>>> it was >>>> >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >>>>>>>> >>>> particular >>>> >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >>>>>>>> >>>> sent me >>>> >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available,  >>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>> >>> have >>> >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de  >>>>>>>>> Agrela. >>>>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela.  >>>>>>>>> Once  I >>>>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose  >>>>>>>>> alcunha >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in  charge of  >>>>>>>>> Porto >>>>>>>>> >>>  Santo prison. >>> >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible >>>>>>>>> >>> job? >>> >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical.  >>>>>>>>> answer- >>>>>>>>> >>> Idon't >>> >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good >>>>>>>>> >>> friend, >>> >>>>>>>>> such is >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid,  one day you may be in the same >>>>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very  >>>>>>>>> small >>>>>>>>> >>> in stature, but not in dignity. >>> >>>>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>>>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe'  >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe'  > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe'  > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes  in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes  in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel, I had to get all the way down to Ana Ferreira before I could tie in to this post ;-) - so now as I am working my way back up, I have a question. You wrote: # 1 Afonso Pires and Ines Eanes had: 2 Pedro Afonso. 2 João Afonso 2 Aldonça Lopes m. João Homem # 3 2 Leonor Lopes m. Jorge Ennes de Araújo. # 2 Pedro Afonso was called "O Cavaleiro" because he was a Knight of the Royal House, He made his will in March 6 1551. He institued a "morgadio" and left it to his niece Ana Ferreira. # 2 2 Francisco Afonso married Isabel Cortês,. She was from Oporto, (from a "escritura" Oct 13, 1542) they had 3. Manuel Afonso Cortês trunk of the Cortês from CL. m.Ouriana Lopes. This last one is where there is an issue - who is Francisco Afonso?? - or did you mean to write Joao Afonso maybe? Cece ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:02:07 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Afonso Pires (the final truth about João Homem?) Dear list, As a little Xmas gift- Here goes what I have discovered in Pereira de Agrela that will give a new light about João Homem and his Pedro Afonso connection. To P. cousin and friend of mine AFONSO PIRES Afonso Pires was one of the first and main settlers of Madeira. Possibly brother of Aires Gonçalves he had land (sesmarias) from Ribeira de S. Bernardino to the Serra do caminho da Aldeia. He administered the Chapel of Gonçalo Pires (who wrote his will in 1483). He was a dweller in some "casas nobres" (noble houses) in Ribeira dos Frades - which later belonged to his descendant João de Carvalho ESMERALDO, In these houses there was a high and fortified Tower.... He married Inês Eaness. daughter of João Saraiva (in her will - written in 1537 . she appears as "dona viúva"- She etablished a 3ª- The will was aritten by João Rodrigues,her cousin. Pero Eanes was her brother and Afonso Pires nephew of her husband, # 1 Afonso Pires and Ines Eanes had: 2 Pedro Afonso. 2 João Afonso 2 Aldonça Lopes m. João Homem # 3 2 Leonor Lopes m. Jorge Ennes de Araújo. # 2 Pedro Afonso was called "O Cavaleiro" because he was a Knight of the Royal House, He made his will in March 6 1551. He institued a "morgadio" and left it to his niece Ana Ferreira. # 2 2 Francisco Afonso married Isabel Cortês,. She was from Oporto, (from a "escritura" Oct 13, 1542) they had 3. Manuel Afonso Cortês trunk of the Cortês from CL. m. Ouriana Lopes. # 3 João Homem was a Knight of the Royal House, as it is described in the "Escritura de dote" made to her daughtehr Beatrriz Homem in 1553, He was, according to Dr. Drummond, from the Homens de Sousa. (There is documented evidencer that indeed he was, as tit will be shown later). He married Aldonça Lopes (above #1, 2) and had: 4. Beatriz Homem, m Martim Annes 4. Ana Ferreira m. Baltazar Gonlçalves Ferreira, son of Francisco de Novaes and Joana Ferreira (título Homens) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: As it is documented that Ana Ferreira ( dau. of João Homem and Aldonça Lopes) was the niece of Pedro Afonso, it is possible that Leonor Homem (the wife of Pedro Afonso) was a very close relative of João Homem. A sister perhaps? Most probably. Or daughter. In any case it seems they were related. Now the claim of João Homem belonging to the Homens de Sousa is also documented. It appears in a document - "a causa original" between Diogo Ferreira de Novais and the sons of João Ferreirta Botelho (who was his brother) . Diogo Ferreira de Novais and João Ferreira Botelho were the sons of Bartolomeu Gonçalves Ferreira and Ana Ferreira - the documented NIECE of Pedro Afonso. Cheers, Miguel de Castro Henriques ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date: 12/29/09 07:47:00

I have a direct Mata line that eventually is found in Gaula... Afonso da MATA & Isabel de FREITAS - they had Isabel de FREITAS who m. Joao FERNANDES PIRES - they had Joao PIRES DA MATA (m. Catarina DIAS) and Bastiao PIRES (m. Ana Martins) - I am descended from both of them. It is about this generation that we begin seeing deaths and marriages in Gaula...late 1500's. Joao & Catarinas' daughter, Caterina Jeronima da MATA m. Simoa VIEIRA in 1572 Gaula. (their son marries in Santa Cruz) Bastiao and Ana's son, Bartolomeu PIRES m. Isabel GONCALVES 1587 in Gaula. (they continue in Gaula) Cece -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Thank you Mary, WOW! the information that has recently been posted by members of this list group has been remarkable... I'm having a difficult time keeping up...but love every minute of it!! ;-)... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Frost" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:05:20 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Pat: Thank you but so far I do not have your Domingas da Mata in my family. Nor do I have any links to Mendes de Vasconcelos. I always say "so far" because you know how that can change. :-) Through marriage and baptism records of their various grandchildren in Machico, I know I am descended from Manuel Pires and Maria da Mata of Gaula. I am not absolutely positive which Manuel and Maria as there are two couples from Gaula with those exact names but I am somewhat certain that mine are the couple married in 1650 in Gaula. The records I presented for Miguel are only from the database I have gathered during my research. Those people were not my ancestors. BTW- I just did a quick search in my Machico database and found a marriage record for one of the children of your Domingas and Martim- son Joao Baptista de Vasconcelos m 1633 Dona Isabel Calaca. Is this your direct line? Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Mary, I have a Domingas da Mata married to Martim Mendes de Vasconcelos,(Martim is my 5th cousin 11 times removed). Is Domingas one of your "Mata," family members? She is the only Mata that I have in file, no additional info on her Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Frost" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:40:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Hello Miguel: I have some data on file that includes your people. First- Pedro Goncalves who married Maria Jorge 1649 Gaula-occupation? Caxaxo Was the son of Pedro Goncalves a slave and Maria da Mata (deceased athe time of the wedding). Maria Jorge was the daughter of Francisco Fernandes and Ana Jorge. I have wedding information on three of their children, including the marriage of Andre Martins da Mata and Simoa da Mata 1690. Does this help you? Mary da Silva Frost -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Am looking for Pedro Gonçalves m ( 1649 Gaula) Maria Jorge. They had > Simoa da Mata. m. André Martins from the Martins da Mata. > > Thanks for any any info, > > > Miguel de CH > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date: 12/29/09 07:47:00

Dear Miguel and Luis, Thank you both... I just read Luis' posting with the web address for the files...I'm going to download the files to disc... I still have some 50 e-mails that I need to read, and of course true to my Madeira Alcunha of Papagaio/a I'll being adding my comments... ;-)). Abs, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:03:22 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela Yes, Pat, that's the same file or files that my cousin Maria do Monte sent to Portugal-gen. However some days ago Luis posted a link in which there is that file and are more elements. Actually it consists of 5 or more books. Some have Part I and Part II-. All are handwritten. But they are easy to read. Now that you have a new computer it won't take that much. PA is indispensable, Miguel On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Miguel, > > Do you recall if this is the file/works that FAD or someone on the > Portuguese List actually scanned and made it available to list members for > downloading...?? > I recall a very large file, that took me days to download, but for the life > of me I can't put my hands on it now... I think it's the same file that I > sent to Janette. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janette Chun" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 2:36:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > Thank goodness some of these survived. And thankfully, there are still > people interested in preserving history. > > I keep hoping (call me an optimist) that there will be an > archeological discovery that will answer so many of our questions : ) > > Janette > On 20-Dec-09, at 5:54 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Pereira d'Agrella work is a manuscript. It has several tomes, and > > perhaps > > 700 pages or more. I have not counted them. It is an interesting work > > because it takes a broad view of some families that usually are not > > referred > > in the other nobiliaries. It is a nobiliary. Pereira de Agrela had > > the > > chance to see several documents that since him were lost, ruined or > > eaten by > > mice, moth, worms, and human carelessness (the worst and more > > damaging). > > Old documents could stay in damp places for ages. Some miraculously > > survived > > but many disappeared. And the worst thing is that many disappeared > > or were > > ruined due to lack of care during the 19 th century . Older people > > respected > > a bit more the written documents. But with the emergence of print, > > old stuff > > was groovy, old was outdated, considered rubish, except by some few > > like > > Pereira d'Agrela. > > His g-gdaughter, an extremely generous person, told me several > > things about > > his ancestor. Curiously since him all the Agrellas have devoted > > themselves > > to genealogy until our days, where their representative - my > > cousin- is > > still investigating. > > > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> He was a genealogist in Madeira during the 1700s. > >> > >> The title page on the extract I have is: Genealogias da ilha da > >> Madeira por Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella. (Este autor nasceu em > >> mais de 1777 no Funchal, onde morreu em fevereiro de 1835). It's all > >> in script, so I hope I've read that correctly. Loosely translated it > >> says Genealogies of the Island of Madeira by Joao Agostinho Pereira > >> d'Agrela. (This author was born before 1777 in Funchal where he died > >> in February 1835). > >> > >> I have no idea how extensive his volume of work is - as mentioned I > >> only have 33 pages (that I know of : ) - but Miguel makes reference > >> to > >> pg 166, so my guess - extensive. I also don't know if this is > >> available anywhere online. I will look to see if I have any more > >> files that might complete this volume. I'm happy to share what I > >> have > >> on this particular genealogist if anyone is interested, please email > >> me at [email protected] At this stage, it looks like the Aguares > >> de Machico, Garros, Ferreiras de Arco, Pereiras das Florencas, > >> Agrellas, Baioes, Borges. I've printed the pages off to try and make > >> sense of them as most don't have any page numbers and it doesn't > >> appear to be in alphabetical order. > >> > >> > >> > >> Janette > >> > >> > >> On 19-Dec-09, at 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> > >>> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >>> Thanks, > >>> David DeGrella > >>> Tennessee, USA > >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> writes: > >>>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & > >>>> Mendonca > >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, > >>>> seems > >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, > >>>> and > >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > >>>> going > >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>>> thanks > >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to > >>>> check > >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was > >>>>> a > > >>>>> field day > >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>> to Pereira d'Agrela. > >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>>> Travassos m. > >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>>> manifests 2 or > >>>>> three generations later. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. > >>>>>> I'm > >>>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, > >>>>>> but > >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>>> Janette > >>> > >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>> > >>>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>> Castro > >>>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>> case > >>>>>>> he was > >>>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >>>> it was > >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>> particular > >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>> sent me > >>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>> > >>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, > >>>>>>>>> You > >>> have > >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > >>>>>>>>> Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Once I > >>>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose > >>>>>>>>> alcunha > >>> > >>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of > >>>>>>>>> Porto > >>> Santo prison. > >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>> job? > >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. > >>>>>>>>> answer- > >>> Idon't > >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>> friend, > >>>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very > >>>>>>>>> small > >>> in stature, but not in dignity. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Miguel

Yes, Pat, that's the same file or files that my cousin Maria do Monte sent to Portugal-gen. However some days ago Luis posted a link in which there is that file and are more elements. Actually it consists of 5 or more books. Some have Part I and Part II-. All are handwritten. But they are easy to read. Now that you have a new computer it won't take that much. PA is indispensable, Miguel On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Pat Corbera <[email protected]>wrote: > Miguel, > > Do you recall if this is the file/works that FAD or someone on the > Portuguese List actually scanned and made it available to list members for > downloading...?? > I recall a very large file, that took me days to download, but for the life > of me I can't put my hands on it now... I think it's the same file that I > sent to Janette. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janette Chun" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 2:36:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela > > Thank goodness some of these survived. And thankfully, there are still > people interested in preserving history. > > I keep hoping (call me an optimist) that there will be an > archeological discovery that will answer so many of our questions : ) > > Janette > On 20-Dec-09, at 5:54 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Pereira d'Agrella work is a manuscript. It has several tomes, and > > perhaps > > 700 pages or more. I have not counted them. It is an interesting work > > because it takes a broad view of some families that usually are not > > referred > > in the other nobiliaries. It is a nobiliary. Pereira de Agrela had > > the > > chance to see several documents that since him were lost, ruined or > > eaten by > > mice, moth, worms, and human carelessness (the worst and more > > damaging). > > Old documents could stay in damp places for ages. Some miraculously > > survived > > but many disappeared. And the worst thing is that many disappeared > > or were > > ruined due to lack of care during the 19 th century . Older people > > respected > > a bit more the written documents. But with the emergence of print, > > old stuff > > was groovy, old was outdated, considered rubish, except by some few > > like > > Pereira d'Agrela. > > His g-gdaughter, an extremely generous person, told me several > > things about > > his ancestor. Curiously since him all the Agrellas have devoted > > themselves > > to genealogy until our days, where their representative - my > > cousin- is > > still investigating. > > > > > > Miguel > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> He was a genealogist in Madeira during the 1700s. > >> > >> The title page on the extract I have is: Genealogias da ilha da > >> Madeira por Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella. (Este autor nasceu em > >> mais de 1777 no Funchal, onde morreu em fevereiro de 1835). It's all > >> in script, so I hope I've read that correctly. Loosely translated it > >> says Genealogies of the Island of Madeira by Joao Agostinho Pereira > >> d'Agrela. (This author was born before 1777 in Funchal where he died > >> in February 1835). > >> > >> I have no idea how extensive his volume of work is - as mentioned I > >> only have 33 pages (that I know of : ) - but Miguel makes reference > >> to > >> pg 166, so my guess - extensive. I also don't know if this is > >> available anywhere online. I will look to see if I have any more > >> files that might complete this volume. I'm happy to share what I > >> have > >> on this particular genealogist if anyone is interested, please email > >> me at [email protected] At this stage, it looks like the Aguares > >> de Machico, Garros, Ferreiras de Arco, Pereiras das Florencas, > >> Agrellas, Baioes, Borges. I've printed the pages off to try and make > >> sense of them as most don't have any page numbers and it doesn't > >> appear to be in alphabetical order. > >> > >> > >> > >> Janette > >> > >> > >> On 19-Dec-09, at 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> > >>> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > >>> Thanks, > >>> David DeGrella > >>> Tennessee, USA > >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> writes: > >>>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & > >>>> Mendonca > >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, > >>>> seems > >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, > >>>> and > >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. > >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was > >>>> going > >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, > >>>> thanks > >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical > >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to > >>>> check > >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. > >>>> Janette > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was > >>>>> a > > >>>>> field day > >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks > >>>> to Pereira d'Agrela. > >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel > >>>>> Travassos m. > >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor > >>>>> manifests 2 or > >>>>> three generations later. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> Miguel > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello Miguel, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. > >>>>>> I'm > >>>>>> sincerely grateful. > >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, > >>>>>> but > >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. > >>>>>> Janette > >>> > >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>> > >>>>>>> Hello Janette, > >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 > >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: > >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis > >>>>>>> ( dau. of > >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: > >>>>>>> Baltazar > >>>>>>> Manuel > >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares > >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos > >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de > >>>> Castro > >>>>>>> and Luzia > >>>>>>> Fernandes > >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. > >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > >>> case > >>>>>>> he was > >>>>>>> not accurate. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Miguel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > >>> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but > >>>> it was > >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this > >>>> particular > >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive > >>>> sent me > >>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>> the Gois family. > >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far > >>>>>>>> haven't > >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>> > >>>>>>>> Janette > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, > >>>>>>>>> You > >>> have > >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, > >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de > >>>>>>>>> Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Geneall has > >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best > >>>>>>>>> Madeiran > >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues > >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. > >>>>>>>>> Once I > >>>>>>>>> looked for > >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. > >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose > >>>>>>>>> alcunha > >>> > >>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of > >>>>>>>>> Porto > >>> Santo prison. > >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a > >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > >>> job? > >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. > >>>>>>>>> answer- > >>> Idon't > >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > >>> friend, > >>>>>>>>> such is > >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same > >>>>>>>>> position as myself." > >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very > >>>>>>>>> small > >>> in stature, but not in dignity. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Miguel > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] > >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > >>> the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you Mary, WOW! the information that has recently been posted by members of this list group has been remarkable... I'm having a difficult time keeping up...but love every minute of it!! ;-)... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Frost" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:05:20 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Pat: Thank you but so far I do not have your Domingas da Mata in my family. Nor do I have any links to Mendes de Vasconcelos. I always say "so far" because you know how that can change. :-) Through marriage and baptism records of their various grandchildren in Machico, I know I am descended from Manuel Pires and Maria da Mata of Gaula. I am not absolutely positive which Manuel and Maria as there are two couples from Gaula with those exact names but I am somewhat certain that mine are the couple married in 1650 in Gaula. The records I presented for Miguel are only from the database I have gathered during my research. Those people were not my ancestors. BTW- I just did a quick search in my Machico database and found a marriage record for one of the children of your Domingas and Martim- son Joao Baptista de Vasconcelos m 1633 Dona Isabel Calaca. Is this your direct line? Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Mary, I have a Domingas da Mata married to Martim Mendes de Vasconcelos,(Martim is my 5th cousin 11 times removed). Is Domingas one of your "Mata," family members? She is the only Mata that I have in file, no additional info on her Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Frost" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:40:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Hello Miguel: I have some data on file that includes your people. First- Pedro Goncalves who married Maria Jorge 1649 Gaula-occupation? Caxaxo Was the son of Pedro Goncalves a slave and Maria da Mata (deceased athe time of the wedding). Maria Jorge was the daughter of Francisco Fernandes and Ana Jorge. I have wedding information on three of their children, including the marriage of Andre Martins da Mata and Simoa da Mata 1690. Does this help you? Mary da Silva Frost -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Am looking for Pedro Gonçalves m ( 1649 Gaula) Maria Jorge. They had Simoa > da Mata. m. André Martins from the Martins da Mata. > > Thanks for any any info, > > > Miguel de CH > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Miguel, Do you recall if this is the file/works that FAD or someone on the Portuguese List actually scanned and made it available to list members for downloading...?? I recall a very large file, that took me days to download, but for the life of me I can't put my hands on it now... I think it's the same file that I sent to Janette. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janette Chun" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 2:36:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela Thank goodness some of these survived. And thankfully, there are still people interested in preserving history. I keep hoping (call me an optimist) that there will be an archeological discovery that will answer so many of our questions : ) Janette On 20-Dec-09, at 5:54 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Pereira d'Agrella work is a manuscript. It has several tomes, and > perhaps > 700 pages or more. I have not counted them. It is an interesting work > because it takes a broad view of some families that usually are not > referred > in the other nobiliaries. It is a nobiliary. Pereira de Agrela had > the > chance to see several documents that since him were lost, ruined or > eaten by > mice, moth, worms, and human carelessness (the worst and more > damaging). > Old documents could stay in damp places for ages. Some miraculously > survived > but many disappeared. And the worst thing is that many disappeared > or were > ruined due to lack of care during the 19 th century . Older people > respected > a bit more the written documents. But with the emergence of print, > old stuff > was groovy, old was outdated, considered rubish, except by some few > like > Pereira d'Agrela. > His g-gdaughter, an extremely generous person, told me several > things about > his ancestor. Curiously since him all the Agrellas have devoted > themselves > to genealogy until our days, where their representative - my > cousin- is > still investigating. > > > Miguel > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Janette Chun <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> He was a genealogist in Madeira during the 1700s. >> >> The title page on the extract I have is: Genealogias da ilha da >> Madeira por Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella. (Este autor nasceu em >> mais de 1777 no Funchal, onde morreu em fevereiro de 1835). It's all >> in script, so I hope I've read that correctly. Loosely translated it >> says Genealogies of the Island of Madeira by Joao Agostinho Pereira >> d'Agrela. (This author was born before 1777 in Funchal where he died >> in February 1835). >> >> I have no idea how extensive his volume of work is - as mentioned I >> only have 33 pages (that I know of : ) - but Miguel makes reference >> to >> pg 166, so my guess - extensive. I also don't know if this is >> available anywhere online. I will look to see if I have any more >> files that might complete this volume. I'm happy to share what I >> have >> on this particular genealogist if anyone is interested, please email >> me at [email protected] At this stage, it looks like the Aguares >> de Machico, Garros, Ferreiras de Arco, Pereiras das Florencas, >> Agrellas, Baioes, Borges. I've printed the pages off to try and make >> sense of them as most don't have any page numbers and it doesn't >> appear to be in alphabetical order. >> >> >> >> Janette >> >> >> On 19-Dec-09, at 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? >>> Thanks, >>> David DeGrella >>> Tennessee, USA >>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun >>> <[email protected]> >>> writes: >>>> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & >>>> Mendonca >>>> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, >>>> seems >>>> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, >>>> and >>>> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >>>> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was >>>> going >>>> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >>>> thanks >>>> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >>>> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to >>>> check >>>> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >>>> Janette >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was >>>>> a > >>>>> field day >>>>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >>>> to Pereira d'Agrela. >>>>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>>>> Travassos m. >>>>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>>>> manifests 2 or >>>>> three generations later. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Miguel >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Miguel, >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> sincerely grateful. >>>>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >>>>>> little >>>>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, >>>>>> but >>>>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>>>> Janette >>> >>>>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>> >>>>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>>>> ( dau. of >>>>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>>>> Baltazar >>>>>>> Manuel >>>>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >>>> Castro >>>>>>> and Luzia >>>>>>> Fernandes >>>>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular >>> case >>>>>>> he was >>>>>>> not accurate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Miguel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira >>> de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >>>> it was >>>>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >>>> particular >>>>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >>>> sent me >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. >>> >>>>>>>> Janette >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, >>>>>>>>> You >>> have >>>>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de >>>>>>>>> Agrela. >>>>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. >>>>>>>>> Once I >>>>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose >>>>>>>>> alcunha >>> >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of >>>>>>>>> Porto >>> Santo prison. >>>>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible >>> job? >>>>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. >>>>>>>>> answer- >>> Idon't >>>>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good >>> friend, >>>>>>>>> such is >>>>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very >>>>>>>>> small >>> in stature, but not in dignity. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Miguel >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Janette, I was looking for the info that I recall sending to you years ago...Think it's the same old genealogy file that you noted in your post... I'll keep looking for the entire file... recall it was very long, and took numerous e-mail attachments. I check my old computer, hope it's still there... Also think it was a file that I originally downloaded from the Portuguese List Group with Francisco Doria (FAD aka Chico)... I'm on the "hunt." to be continued... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janette Chun" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 10:50:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Help reading certificates/Pereira d'Agrela He was a genealogist in Madeira during the 1700s. The title page on the extract I have is: Genealogias da ilha da Madeira por Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrella. (Este autor nasceu em mais de 1777 no Funchal, onde morreu em fevereiro de 1835). It's all in script, so I hope I've read that correctly. Loosely translated it says Genealogies of the Island of Madeira by Joao Agostinho Pereira d'Agrela. (This author was born before 1777 in Funchal where he died in February 1835). I have no idea how extensive his volume of work is - as mentioned I only have 33 pages (that I know of : ) - but Miguel makes reference to pg 166, so my guess - extensive. I also don't know if this is available anywhere online. I will look to see if I have any more files that might complete this volume. I'm happy to share what I have on this particular genealogist if anyone is interested, please email me at [email protected] At this stage, it looks like the Aguares de Machico, Garros, Ferreiras de Arco, Pereiras das Florencas, Agrellas, Baioes, Borges. I've printed the pages off to try and make sense of them as most don't have any page numbers and it doesn't appear to be in alphabetical order. Janette On 19-Dec-09, at 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: > I'm confused. Who or what is"Pereira d'Agrela"? > Thanks, > David DeGrella > Tennessee, USA > On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:48:56 -0800 Janette Chun <[email protected]> > writes: >> Thanks Miguel. I find it quite interesting that the Gois & Mendonca >> names, although carried by the male line in later generations, seems >> to have its genesis in the female line with Beatriz, her mother, and >> now, thanks to you, her grandmother. >> Turns out that I had heard of Pereira d'Agrela after all. I was >> going >> through some old genealogy files yesterday, and lo and behold, >> thanks >> to Pat (on this forum) I have about 33 pages of this genealogical >> record sent to me circa 2002 : )) Thanks Pat! I will have to check >> my old laptop to see what other treasures I might have stowed away. >> Janette >> >> >> On 19-Dec-09, at 2:50 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >> >>> Hello Janette, >>> You're welcome. I am glad I was of some help. Yesterday it was a > >>> field day >>> too because I also solved another old genealogical puzzle. Thanks >> to Pereira d'Agrela. >>> Anyway, the Mendonça could come precisely from the first Manuel >>> Travassos m. >>> Maria Mendonça. On that era sometimes a name of an ancestor >>> manifests 2 or >>> three generations later. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Miguel >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Janette Chun >> <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Miguel, >>>> >>>> Wow! Thank you for solving this piece of the puzzle for me. I'm >>>> sincerely grateful. >>>> I'm not on the nobility quest but good to know. I'm still at a >>>> little >>>> confused on how or where the first Mendonca occurs in this line, >>>> but >>>> hopefully, once I get the documents, more will be revealed. >>>> Janette > >>>> On 18-Dec-09, at 1:32 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > >>>>> Hello Janette, >>>>> In Pereira de Agrela Tomo 1-6 parte, pg 166 >>>>> 1 Manuel Travassos m. Maria de Mendonça, they had: >>>>> 2 - Manuel Travassos. o pequeninho. m. (1609) Isabel de Góis >>>>> ( dau. of >>>>> Domingos Martins de Magalhâes and Catarina Nunes), they had: >>>>> Baltazar >>>>> Manuel >>>>> Maria Nunes m. Baltazar de Mendonça Soares >>>>> Isabel de Castro m. Duarte Teixeira de Vasconcelos >>>>> Beatriz de Góis m. Luís de Castro Ferreira. son of Diogo de >> Castro >>>>> and Luzia >>>>> Fernandes >>>>> The Travassos were from the nobility. >>>>> I don't know where Clode got his idea , but in this particular > case >>>>> he was >>>>> not accurate. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Miguel >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Janette Chun >> <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Miguel. Yes I know of these all except Morgado Pereira > de Agrela. I haven't really looked at any of the Clode works, but >> it was >>>>>> in fact through his work that I was able to get to this >> particular >>>>>> ancestor, thanks to a page from his book, which the archive >> sent me >>>>>> on >>>>>> the Gois family. >>>>>> I just recently took out a subscription to geneall but so far >>>>>> haven't >>>>>> discovered any new nuggets of information. Will keep looking. > >>>>>> Janette >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3-Dec-09, at 9:07 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Well,>>> You proibably know already all that are available, You > have >>>>>>> Felsiberto, HHN, >>>>>>> Clode, and FMPS Clode and Meneses and Morgado Pereira de >>>>>>> Agrela. >>>>>>> Geneall has >>>>>>> some info about Madeira genealogies. And the personal best >>>>>>> Madeiran >>>>>>> genealogies are to be found in some of our list colleagues >>>>>>> I'll try to find out the Travassos in Pereira de Agrela. Once I >>>>>>> looked for >>>>>>> them and it had valuable and original info about them. >>>>>>> At one point some a Travassos (from 15th century) whose alcunha > >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> " O Pequenininho) was the Carcereiro, the man in charge of >>>>>>> Porto > Santo prison. >>>>>>> A friend, a nobleman was quite schocked to see him in such a >>>>>>> station. Whatyou, from the noble Travassos, in such a terrible > job? >>>>>>> The Pequenininho had some flourished and philosophical. answer- > Idon't >>>>>>> recall the terms. But it was somnething like: " Alas my good > friend, >>>>>>> such is >>>>>>> life that, though God forbid, one day you may be in the same >>>>>>> position as myself." >>>>>>> To be called Pequenininho- - is because he was very very small > in stature, but not in dignity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Miguel

Dear Miguel, WOW! What a fountain of information... I'll post your findings to my file and comment later...too much to digest for now...many THANKS for sharing this wonderful find!! Abs, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miguel de Castro Henriques" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:02:07 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Afonso Pires (the final truth about João Homem?) Dear list, As a little Xmas gift- Here goes what I have discovered in Pereira de Agrela that will give a new light about João Homem and his Pedro Afonso connection. To P. cousin and friend of mine AFONSO PIRES Afonso Pires was one of the first and main settlers of Madeira. Possibly brother of Aires Gonçalves he had land (sesmarias) from Ribeira de S. Bernardino to the Serra do caminho da Aldeia. He administered the Chapel of Gonçalo Pires (who wrote his will in 1483). He was a dweller in some "casas nobres" (noble houses) in Ribeira dos Frades - which later belonged to his descendant João de Carvalho ESMERALDO, In these houses there was a high and fortified Tower.... He married Inês Eaness. daughter of João Saraiva (in her will - written in 1537 . she appears as "dona viúva"- She etablished a 3ª- The will was aritten by João Rodrigues,her cousin. Pero Eanes was her brother and Afonso Pires nephew of her husband, # 1 Afonso Pires and Ines Eanes had: 2 Pedro Afonso. 2 João Afonso 2 Aldonça Lopes m. João Homem # 3 2 Leonor Lopes m. Jorge Ennes de Araújo. # 2 Pedro Afonso was called "O Cavaleiro" because he was a Knight of the Royal House, He made his will in March 6 1551. He institued a "morgadio" and left it to his niece Ana Ferreira. # 2 2 Francisco Afonso married Isabel Cortês,. She was from Oporto, (from a "escritura" Oct 13, 1542) they had 3. Manuel Afonso Cortês trunk of the Cortês from CL. m. Ouriana Lopes. # 3 João Homem was a Knight of the Royal House, as it is described in the "Escritura de dote" made to her daughtehr Beatrriz Homem in 1553, He was, according to Dr. Drummond, from the Homens de Sousa. (There is documented evidencer that indeed he was, as tit will be shown later). He married Aldonça Lopes (above #1, 2) and had: 4. Beatriz Homem, m Martim Annes 4. Ana Ferreira m. Baltazar Gonlçalves Ferreira, son of Francisco de Novaes and Joana Ferreira (título Homens) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: As it is documented that Ana Ferreira ( dau. of João Homem and Aldonça Lopes) was the niece of Pedro Afonso, it is possible that Leonor Homem (the wife of Pedro Afonso) was a very close relative of João Homem. A sister perhaps? Most probably. Or daughter. In any case it seems they were related. Now the claim of João Homem belonging to the Homens de Sousa is also documented. It appears in a document - "a causa original" between Diogo Ferreira de Novais and the sons of João Ferreirta Botelho (who was his brother) . Diogo Ferreira de Novais and João Ferreira Botelho were the sons of Bartolomeu Gonçalves Ferreira and Ana Ferreira - the documented NIECE of Pedro Afonso. Cheers, Miguel de Castro Henriques ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Leandro, I'll check it out later... I'm still in a "catch-up," mode with commenting/replying to all the postings that took place during the week before Christmas... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:09:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Pat, If you go to my website you can see domingas ancestors. the pasword is madeira leandro In a message dated 12/29/2009 6:09:28 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Mary, I have a Domingas da Mata married to Martim Mendes de Vasconcelos,(Martim is my 5th cousin 11 times removed). Is Domingas one of your "Mata," family members? She is the only Mata that I have in file, no additional info on her Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Frost" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:40:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Hello Miguel: I have some data on file that includes your people. First- Pedro Goncalves who married Maria Jorge 1649 Gaula-occupation? Caxaxo Was the son of Pedro Goncalves a slave and Maria da Mata (deceased athe time of the wedding). Maria Jorge was the daughter of Francisco Fernandes and Ana Jorge. I have wedding information on three of their children, including the marriage of Andre Martins da Mata and Simoa da Mata 1690. Does this help you? Mary da Silva Frost -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Am looking for Pedro Gonçalves m ( 1649 Gaula) Maria Jorge. They had Simoa > da Mata. m. André Martins from the Martins da Mata. > > Thanks for any any info, > > > Miguel de CH > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mary, I have a Domingas da Mata married to Martim Mendes de Vasconcelos,(Martim is my 5th cousin 11 times removed). Is Domingas one of your "Mata," family members? She is the only Mata that I have in file, no additional info on her Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Frost" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:40:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Hello Miguel: I have some data on file that includes your people. First- Pedro Goncalves who married Maria Jorge 1649 Gaula-occupation? Caxaxo Was the son of Pedro Goncalves a slave and Maria da Mata (deceased athe time of the wedding). Maria Jorge was the daughter of Francisco Fernandes and Ana Jorge. I have wedding information on three of their children, including the marriage of Andre Martins da Mata and Simoa da Mata 1690. Does this help you? Mary da Silva Frost -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Am looking for Pedro Gonçalves m ( 1649 Gaula) Maria Jorge. They had Simoa > da Mata. m. André Martins from the Martins da Mata. > > Thanks for any any info, > > > Miguel de CH >

Pat: Thank you but so far I do not have your Domingas da Mata in my family. Nor do I have any links to Mendes de Vasconcelos. I always say "so far" because you know how that can change. :-) Through marriage and baptism records of their various grandchildren in Machico, I know I am descended from Manuel Pires and Maria da Mata of Gaula. I am not absolutely positive which Manuel and Maria as there are two couples from Gaula with those exact names but I am somewhat certain that mine are the couple married in 1650 in Gaula. The records I presented for Miguel are only from the database I have gathered during my research. Those people were not my ancestors. BTW- I just did a quick search in my Machico database and found a marriage record for one of the children of your Domingas and Martim- son Joao Baptista de Vasconcelos m 1633 Dona Isabel Calaca. Is this your direct line? Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected]ootsweb.com [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Corbera Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Mary, I have a Domingas da Mata married to Martim Mendes de Vasconcelos,(Martim is my 5th cousin 11 times removed). Is Domingas one of your "Mata," family members? She is the only Mata that I have in file, no additional info on her Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Frost" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:40:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula Hello Miguel: I have some data on file that includes your people. First- Pedro Goncalves who married Maria Jorge 1649 Gaula-occupation? Caxaxo Was the son of Pedro Goncalves a slave and Maria da Mata (deceased athe time of the wedding). Maria Jorge was the daughter of Francisco Fernandes and Ana Jorge. I have wedding information on three of their children, including the marriage of Andre Martins da Mata and Simoa da Mata 1690. Does this help you? Mary da Silva Frost -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] People from Gaula On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Am looking for Pedro Gonçalves m ( 1649 Gaula) Maria Jorge. They had Simoa > da Mata. m. André Martins from the Martins da Mata. > > Thanks for any any info, > > > Miguel de CH > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message