David, Scan and send the records that you do have from the Archives, and I'll see if I can translate them for you.. I found the marriage info for Joao de Agrella and Perpetua Rosa on the Archive Data Base this morning... it's ... Marriage May 31, 1827 Arco da Calheta - 1827 Book 1034 Page 39... Is that what was provided to you "years ago?" I also did not locate any info for Francisca Candida da Silva on the Archive site either. I was hoping that their marriage record would provide a location/village for her. Since they married in the Se' in Funchal, it's possible that she was not from there... If you feel comfortable about scanning the records that you do have and sending them to me... I'd be more than happy to see if I can add additional info for you. Who did the English translation for you? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "david-nancy degrella" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2010 1:39:16 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Pat, I have marriage records from the Madeira Archives for: Alexandre de Agrella and Francisca Candida, 1851 (which has been translated for me into English); Joao de Agrella and Anna Maria Joaquina, 1804; Antonio Jose Goncalves and Isabel Joaquina, 1792 (the later two have not been translated. The attempt to do it myself was a failure.). The information I have on the marriage of Joao de Agrella and Perpetura Rose in Arco da Calheta on May 31, 1827, was provided by a member of this list several years ago. I was unable to find any apparent matches on the Madeira Archives web site for the family of Francisca Candida. David On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > Denise and David, > > Denise, the posting/e-mail exchange that focused on the name of > "Chicaro," had to do with my cousin...at this point I'm not too sure > it was anything to do with David's research...but I need to re-read > that complete exchange. > > David, > > Have you obtained copies of the vital records from the Madeira > Archives for your ancestors that you listed on the pedigree chart > that you sent to me? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:26:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > Hi Pat and David, > > Pat - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never > answered > you. > Unfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I > have > never viewed the Cani�o films. I do have his birthdate of 25 Aug > 1906 and he > died in Pico do Funcho, S�o Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. > Clarisse was > born in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 > May 1987. > They did not have any children. They were married around 1960. I > agree > with you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I would > love to > pursue it. If you have access to the Cani�o films, maybe you > could look > up Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be > what we > need right now. > Maybe that information would help establish a link with David as > well. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Denise and Pat, > > In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which > was > written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New > York. > The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". > It is > in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from > Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts > and > Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you > make > any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe > Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already > there. > Thanks, > David DeGrella > Tennessee, USA > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera > <[email protected]> writes: > > Hi Denise, > > > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> > October>16> > > Manchuria > > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' > brother, > > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > Denise, > > > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis > Nobrega > > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > > > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in > Middlesex > > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also > Middlesex > > County. > > > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are > also > > linked with this family. > > > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > > > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his > mother's > > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > > > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > > online input. > > > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > > continue to play > > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > > Martinho. > > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge > MA. > > > > Denise D'Antona > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Prima Linda, Have you been following the postings by David DeGrella? With your "keen," knowledge of Arco da Calheta, any info that you can add to this search would be greatly appreciated. I noticed that you have Agrela/Silva ancestors from Arco... do you see any connection/s with your family and David's? Prima Pat

Denise and David, Denise, the posting/e-mail exchange that focused on the name of "Chicaro," had to do with my cousin...at this point I'm not too sure it was anything to do with David's research...but I need to re-read that complete exchange. David, Have you obtained copies of the vital records from the Madeira Archives for your ancestors that you listed on the pedigree chart that you sent to me? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:26:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Hi Pat and David, Pat - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never answered you. Unfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I have never viewed the Caniço films. I do have his birthdate of 25 Aug 1906 and he died in Pico do Funcho, São Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. Clarisse was born in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 May 1987. They did not have any children. They were married around 1960. I agree with you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I would love to pursue it. If you have access to the Caniço films, maybe you could look up Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be what we need right now. Maybe that information would help establish a link with David as well. Denise D'Antona In a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Denise and Pat, In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which was written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New York. The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It is in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts and Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you make any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already there. Thanks, David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > Hi Denise, > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> > Manchuria > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' brother, > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Denise, > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex > County. > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also > linked with this family. > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his mother's > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > online input. > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > continue to play > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > Martinho. > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge MA. > > Denise D'Antona ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Denise and José, As one can see in the "Tombo da Câmara" Francisco Cairos de Orta was "escrivão judicial." (a top bureaucrat of the Funchal Court). Prior to him and probably his ancestor we have a certain Diogo de Orta, who was a land owner of some dimension. a) Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos were relatives. Cousins in the 4 th degree. Maria de Cairos had an aunt ; Beatriz Vaz. b) Gabriel Vaz was a dweller in Camacha when he married. c) Manuel Tavares was the "nephew " of Maria Tavares.- (He married Aldonça Godiunho, 1582), dau of João Godinho (Escudeiro) and Isabel Cré (form the interesting Crés. Felisberto says they come from Creagh - Irish name. The myth says they come from Guillaume de la Longue Epée) .d) Manuel Tavares was the son of Bernardo Martins (Mascarenhas, according to Felisberto). Beatriz Vaz was the dau of Brás Afonso and sister of Francisco Brás married with Juliana de Cairos. All this alows us to infer which was the social frame in which these Cairos were inserted. Upper middle class, top bureaucrats. Connections to nobility. Fleisbetro considers Fernardo Martins borther of Duar6tye Martins, FCR (Fidalgo da Casa Real). They are most certainly related to the famous Constantino de Cairos, Knight and warrior. As a foot note, from these Cairos Vaz, proceed the Freitas leal who had a hiuse and miorgadio in Lombo do Folhadal - Porto da Cruz - later known as Lombo dos Leais. NOTE - al these references were taken from FMPS, pg 392 Cheers, Miguel Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello José, > > Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos and do > you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the marriage was > given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe they were from > Camacha. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Miguel, > Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz or > Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage and he > doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a D'Orta. Is it > possible it is just that he had a "horta"? > We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my 11th, > from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! > > I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. > This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. > > As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras de > Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I shall visit > itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore the castle? I > like > the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all over the world now! > > The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. > > On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married in > 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de > Castro > (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. Can't > find > that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the way, Gonçalo is a > "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro Afonso, he was a "lavrador" > and > seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's mother > a > widow- Gregória Martins. > Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? > > José > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:p > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:27 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > José, > > He is the same Francisco. Sometimes name were shortened > Anyway the d'Orta name puzzles me. There are the Hurtere, Flemish, from > Açores (which gave the name to cidade da Horta), and the Horta, from > Spain. > Could he be from Açores ? From the Hurtere branch? Never heard someone > raising this question before. May be I am 100% wrong. > > The Sás or Sousas e Sás from Caniço are, in part Sousas (by way of > Jerónimo > de Sousa, the trunk of that line) from Açores. I can't remember now their > Sá > name origin. It was a mighty name then, not common, though there were some > Sás commoners and a few Sás nobles. Anyway a noble having Sá as a name > would > use it proudly. Like the Bettencourts de Sá did. > Curuosly the Sás originate in Porto (Portugal) from bourgeois origins, > around the mid 14 th century. So it's not that old. (A really old name in > Portugal is a name existing before 1143, before King Afonso Henriques > declared independence from Castille) when Portugal was still Comitat > Portucalensis. > > I also have lots of Corrêas de Miranda (from Caniço) , coming from the > first > Corrêa de Miranda settler. Do you have them too? Actually my g.grand > mother > was Eulália de Jesus Corrêa de Miranda, her godfather was Morgado Jacinto > de > Freitas Lomelino, still a relative. She married a Nóbrega from the line of > Mundos da Nóbrega. (They say Mundos name was Edmundo. It's quite probable. > But I like the way it stayed for posterity : Mundos. The translation in > English, of course, is "Worlds". Quite meaningful. At least I give it a > lot > of meaning, though Mundos was illiterate. I have his signature, a typical > cross. ) > > The point about the origin of the Nóbrega surname is: was Nóbrega a > toponymic, or not? In short , did the first Madeira Nóbrega came from the > "Terras de Nóbrega", or did they carry the name Nóbrega? In the later case > they could be a branch of the Aboim. But I have not seen this problem > satisfactorily solved. One day, if Nóbrega is an added patronymic then wi > will have to dive in the Gonçalves of Terras de Anóbrega - another way of > saying Nóbrega. And that's for sure cnossian! > > The Regos seems to be from Algarve. The trunk of the Vianas, according to > primo Clode, was Afonso Viana, from Caniço. > > >From him was descended João de Viana, Fidalgo Escudeiro da Casa Real, > "whose > descendants mixed with the Cairos from Caniço".(source: Clode. FMPS pg > 333). > > The Vianas in that time were very rich, had a marble tomb, much envied, > because they were perhaps the only ones in Madeira to afford such a > luxury. > (There is no marble in Madeira). Other noble families wanted to have a > marble tomb " na feissão da de João de Vianna) (similar to the marble tom > of > the magnífico Viana). > > Don' forget ti tell me about your Dias Saldanha. > > Mine were Manuel Dias Saldanha m. Maria de Andrada ( from the Ferreira > Noronhas). His parents were Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. (m. > around 162...) > Perdo Dias Saldanha was a natural son of Diogo Annes Saldanha (ouvidor de > Machico) and Concórdia Fernandes. (I suppose Concórdia was a black woman, > or > mestiça. But I don't know why I suppose so. Perhaps Paulo can shed some > light in here* She was Diogo's "amiga". (lovely expression for lover.) > Ana Henriques, obviously, interests me. Now the Henriques name, being a > patronymic, is a hard bone to crunch. Unfortunately there is no marriage > certificate for Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. > > The interesting thing is to find Saldanhas in Madeira, at an early time. > Almost after the first settlement. I am almost sure . due to their status, > that they were from the Saldanhas that came to Portugal from Spain. > > And as I lived quite near Praça do Saldanha , in Lisbon ( Duke of Saldanha > Square) during many years, this name interests me a lot. I also have > friends > with that name, direct descendants of the first Saldanhas who came to > Portugal. > > About Madalena Jorge, i have scores of Jorges too. Some, were from Porto > Santo, descendants of Pedro Jorge (From the terrible mess of the mid 16 th > Calaças). Others from Gaula, and have nothing to do with the former. And > still others like BeatrizJorge married to Manuel Afonso, (16 th century) > that I can't track. > > > Regards, > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Scot, Good try. Bu I don't think so. Cachaça (rum) is a specific brazilian term. Caxaxo must be some slang specific from Madeira. The nearest - homophonycally speaking - is cachaço. The back of the neckt of an ox. Cheers, Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Scot Austin <[email protected]> wrote: > Could it be Cachaça? > > Scot > > Mary Frost wrote: > > Good morning Miguel: > > I did not find the word in any of my multiple dictionaries so I went back > to > > my notes to locate the source of my information. I find I did not state > the > > source. As you are the native speaker, I will stand corrected. > > Mary > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > > Henriques > > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FYI:caxaxo? > > > > Hello Mary, > > > > You say "Caxaxo: it means the person in question was > > either lame or had one leg shorter than the other." > > > > That would be c o x o. Caxaxo is something else. > > > > regards, > > > > MIguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > >> Hello All: > >> > >> I have just a quick comment regarding this word found in a document. > >> > > Caxaxo > > > >> is not an occupation but a descriptive: it means the person in question > >> > > was > > > >> either lame or had one leg shorter than the other. > >> > >> Mary > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Pat, I have marriage records from the Madeira Archives for: Alexandre de Agrella and Francisca Candida, 1851 (which has been translated for me into English); Joao de Agrella and Anna Maria Joaquina, 1804; Antonio Jose Goncalves and Isabel Joaquina, 1792 (the later two have not been translated. The attempt to do it myself was a failure.). The information I have on the marriage of Joao de Agrella and Perpetura Rose in Arco da Calheta on May 31, 1827, was provided by a member of this list several years ago. I was unable to find any apparent matches on the Madeira Archives web site for the family of Francisca Candida. David On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > Denise and David, > > Denise, the posting/e-mail exchange that focused on the name of > "Chicaro," had to do with my cousin...at this point I'm not too sure > it was anything to do with David's research...but I need to re-read > that complete exchange. > > David, > > Have you obtained copies of the vital records from the Madeira > Archives for your ancestors that you listed on the pedigree chart > that you sent to me? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:26:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > Hi Pat and David, > > Pat - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never > answered > you. > Unfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I > have > never viewed the Cani�o films. I do have his birthdate of 25 Aug > 1906 and he > died in Pico do Funcho, S�o Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. > Clarisse was > born in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 > May 1987. > They did not have any children. They were married around 1960. I > agree > with you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I would > love to > pursue it. If you have access to the Cani�o films, maybe you > could look > up Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be > what we > need right now. > Maybe that information would help establish a link with David as > well. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Denise and Pat, > > In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which > was > written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New > York. > The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". > It is > in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from > Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts > and > Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you > make > any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe > Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already > there. > Thanks, > David DeGrella > Tennessee, USA > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera > <[email protected]> writes: > > Hi Denise, > > > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> > October>16> > > Manchuria > > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' > brother, > > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > Denise, > > > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis > Nobrega > > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > > > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in > Middlesex > > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also > Middlesex > > County. > > > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are > also > > linked with this family. > > > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > > > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his > mother's > > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > > > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > > online input. > > > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > > continue to play > > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > > Martinho. > > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge > MA. > > > > Denise D'Antona > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pat, I also did check my file and Clarisse did have a cousin named Elisa but she was born in 1899. Though that Elisa could have been a child that died and the one in 1904 could be a sister of hers. Denise In a message dated 1/3/2010 12:23:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Denise and David, Denise, the posting/e-mail exchange that focused on the name of "Chicaro," had to do with my cousin...at this point I'm not too sure it was anything to do with David's research...but I need to re-read that complete exchange. David, Have you obtained copies of the vital records from the Madeira Archives for your ancestors that you listed on the pedigree chart that you sent to me? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:26:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Hi Pat and David, Pat - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never answered you. Unfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I have never viewed the Caniço films. I do have his birthdate of 25 Aug 1906 and he died in Pico do Funcho, São Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. Clarisse was born in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 May 1987. They did not have any children. They were married around 1960. I agree with you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I would love to pursue it. If you have access to the Caniço films, maybe you could look up Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be what we need right now. Maybe that information would help establish a link with David as well. Denise D'Antona In a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Denise and Pat, In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which was written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New York. The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It is in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts and Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you make any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already there. Thanks, David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > Hi Denise, > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> > Manchuria > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' brother, > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Denise, > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex > County. > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also > linked with this family. > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his mother's > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > online input. > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > continue to play > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > Martinho. > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge MA. > > Denise D'Antona ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David, You probably have already posted all the info that you do have, but if you don't mind, would you start with yourself working back to your parent, grandparents, etc. Plus include any know aunts/uncles/cousins... Yes, it would be nice to see a scanned copy of whatever you have. Just send them to my e-mail address: [email protected] I have Agrela/Agrellas in my data base, plus I know of two people that also have ancestors with that surname from Madeira, hopefully we all can help you with your research... ;-)). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "david-nancy degrella" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 9:59:35 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Pat, Yes, both Henry Nobrega and Francisca da Silva are related to me. Francisca da Silva is my great-grandmother. Henry Nobrega closed the letter with "Your nephew...". So Henry appears to be a son of a sibling of Francisca. I believe that would make Henry a First Cousin twice removed to me. My father's sister had this letter along with some other documents in family records she had kept after her parent's deaths. Would you like me to send you a scan of the letter? David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 03:02:06 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > David, > > Is Henry Nobrega and Francisca da Silva related to you? How did > you obtain this letter? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "david-nancy degrella" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, January 1, 2010 6:08:20 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Denise and Pat, > > In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which > was > written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New > York. > The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It > is > in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from > Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts > and > Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you > make > any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe > Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already > there. > Thanks, > David DeGrella > Tennessee, USA > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera > <[email protected]> writes: > > Hi Denise, > > > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> > > > Manchuria > > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' > brother, > > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > Denise, > > > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega > > > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > > > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex > > > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex > > > County. > > > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also > > > linked with this family. > > > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > > > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his > mother's > > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > > > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > > online input. > > > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > > continue to play > > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > > Martinho. > > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge > MA. > > > > Denise D'Antona > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pat and David, Pat - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never answered you. Unfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I have never viewed the Caniço films. I do have his birthdate of 25 Aug 1906 and he died in Pico do Funcho, São Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. Clarisse was born in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 May 1987. They did not have any children. They were married around 1960. I agree with you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I would love to pursue it. If you have access to the Caniço films, maybe you could look up Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be what we need right now. Maybe that information would help establish a link with David as well. Denise D'Antona In a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Denise and Pat, In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which was written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New York. The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It is in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts and Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you make any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already there. Thanks, David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > Hi Denise, > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> > Manchuria > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' brother, > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Denise, > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex > County. > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also > linked with this family. > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his mother's > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > online input. > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > continue to play > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > Martinho. > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge MA. > > Denise D'Antona ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello José, Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos and do you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the marriage was given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe they were from Camacha. Denise D'Antona In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Miguel, Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz or Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage and he doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a D'Orta. Is it possible it is just that he had a "horta"? We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my 11th, from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras de Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I shall visit itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore the castle? I like the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all over the world now! The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married in 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de Castro (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. Can't find that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the way, Gonçalo is a "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro Afonso, he was a "lavrador" and seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's mother a widow- Gregória Martins. Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? José -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:p [email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos José, He is the same Francisco. Sometimes name were shortened Anyway the d'Orta name puzzles me. There are the Hurtere, Flemish, from Açores (which gave the name to cidade da Horta), and the Horta, from Spain. Could he be from Açores ? From the Hurtere branch? Never heard someone raising this question before. May be I am 100% wrong. The Sás or Sousas e Sás from Caniço are, in part Sousas (by way of Jerónimo de Sousa, the trunk of that line) from Açores. I can't remember now their Sá name origin. It was a mighty name then, not common, though there were some Sás commoners and a few Sás nobles. Anyway a noble having Sá as a name would use it proudly. Like the Bettencourts de Sá did. Curuosly the Sás originate in Porto (Portugal) from bourgeois origins, around the mid 14 th century. So it's not that old. (A really old name in Portugal is a name existing before 1143, before King Afonso Henriques declared independence from Castille) when Portugal was still Comitat Portucalensis. I also have lots of Corrêas de Miranda (from Caniço) , coming from the first Corrêa de Miranda settler. Do you have them too? Actually my g.grand mother was Eulália de Jesus Corrêa de Miranda, her godfather was Morgado Jacinto de Freitas Lomelino, still a relative. She married a Nóbrega from the line of Mundos da Nóbrega. (They say Mundos name was Edmundo. It's quite probable. But I like the way it stayed for posterity : Mundos. The translation in English, of course, is "Worlds". Quite meaningful. At least I give it a lot of meaning, though Mundos was illiterate. I have his signature, a typical cross. ) The point about the origin of the Nóbrega surname is: was Nóbrega a toponymic, or not? In short , did the first Madeira Nóbrega came from the "Terras de Nóbrega", or did they carry the name Nóbrega? In the later case they could be a branch of the Aboim. But I have not seen this problem satisfactorily solved. One day, if Nóbrega is an added patronymic then wi will have to dive in the Gonçalves of Terras de Anóbrega - another way of saying Nóbrega. And that's for sure cnossian! The Regos seems to be from Algarve. The trunk of the Vianas, according to primo Clode, was Afonso Viana, from Caniço. >From him was descended João de Viana, Fidalgo Escudeiro da Casa Real, "whose descendants mixed with the Cairos from Caniço".(source: Clode. FMPS pg 333). The Vianas in that time were very rich, had a marble tomb, much envied, because they were perhaps the only ones in Madeira to afford such a luxury. (There is no marble in Madeira). Other noble families wanted to have a marble tomb " na feissão da de João de Vianna) (similar to the marble tom of the magnífico Viana). Don' forget ti tell me about your Dias Saldanha. Mine were Manuel Dias Saldanha m. Maria de Andrada ( from the Ferreira Noronhas). His parents were Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. (m. around 162...) Perdo Dias Saldanha was a natural son of Diogo Annes Saldanha (ouvidor de Machico) and Concórdia Fernandes. (I suppose Concórdia was a black woman, or mestiça. But I don't know why I suppose so. Perhaps Paulo can shed some light in here* She was Diogo's "amiga". (lovely expression for lover.) Ana Henriques, obviously, interests me. Now the Henriques name, being a patronymic, is a hard bone to crunch. Unfortunately there is no marriage certificate for Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. The interesting thing is to find Saldanhas in Madeira, at an early time. Almost after the first settlement. I am almost sure . due to their status, that they were from the Saldanhas that came to Portugal from Spain. And as I lived quite near Praça do Saldanha , in Lisbon ( Duke of Saldanha Square) during many years, this name interests me a lot. I also have friends with that name, direct descendants of the first Saldanhas who came to Portugal. About Madalena Jorge, i have scores of Jorges too. Some, were from Porto Santo, descendants of Pedro Jorge (From the terrible mess of the mid 16 th Calaças). Others from Gaula, and have nothing to do with the former. And still others like BeatrizJorge married to Manuel Afonso, (16 th century) that I can't track. Regards, Miguel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Miguel, I have been reviewing some old email of mine and I was wondering if you would post your line from Manuel Dias Saldanha and Maria de Andrade. Thank you, Denise D'Antona

Pat, Yes, both Henry Nobrega and Francisca da Silva are related to me. Francisca da Silva is my great-grandmother. Henry Nobrega closed the letter with "Your nephew...". So Henry appears to be a son of a sibling of Francisca. I believe that would make Henry a First Cousin twice removed to me. My father's sister had this letter along with some other documents in family records she had kept after her parent's deaths. Would you like me to send you a scan of the letter? David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 03:02:06 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > David, > > Is Henry Nobrega and Francisca da Silva related to you? How did > you obtain this letter? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "david-nancy degrella" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, January 1, 2010 6:08:20 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Denise and Pat, > > In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which > was > written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New > York. > The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It > is > in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from > Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts > and > Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you > make > any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe > Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already > there. > Thanks, > David DeGrella > Tennessee, USA > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera > <[email protected]> writes: > > Hi Denise, > > > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> > > > Manchuria > > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' > brother, > > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > Denise, > > > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega > > > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > > > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex > > > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex > > > County. > > > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also > > > linked with this family. > > > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > > > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his > mother's > > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > > > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > > online input. > > > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > > continue to play > > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > > Martinho. > > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge > MA. > > > > Denise D'Antona > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Good morning Miguel: I did not find the word in any of my multiple dictionaries so I went back to my notes to locate the source of my information. I find I did not state the source. As you are the native speaker, I will stand corrected. Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FYI:caxaxo? Hello Mary, You say "Caxaxo: it means the person in question was either lame or had one leg shorter than the other." That would be c o x o. Caxaxo is something else. regards, MIguel On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello All: > > I have just a quick comment regarding this word found in a document. Caxaxo > is not an occupation but a descriptive: it means the person in question was > either lame or had one leg shorter than the other. > > Mary > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Could it be Cachaça? Scot Mary Frost wrote: > Good morning Miguel: > I did not find the word in any of my multiple dictionaries so I went back to > my notes to locate the source of my information. I find I did not state the > source. As you are the native speaker, I will stand corrected. > Mary > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FYI:caxaxo? > > Hello Mary, > > You say "Caxaxo: it means the person in question was > either lame or had one leg shorter than the other." > > That would be c o x o. Caxaxo is something else. > > regards, > > MIguel > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected]>wrote: > > >> Hello All: >> >> I have just a quick comment regarding this word found in a document. >> > Caxaxo > >> is not an occupation but a descriptive: it means the person in question >> > was > >> either lame or had one leg shorter than the other. >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

David, Is Henry Nobrega and Francisca da Silva related to you? How did you obtain this letter? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "david-nancy degrella" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 1, 2010 6:08:20 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Denise and Pat, In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which was written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New York. The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It is in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts and Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you make any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already there. Thanks, David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > Hi Denise, > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> > Manchuria > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' brother, > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Denise, > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex > County. > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also > linked with this family. > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his mother's > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > online input. > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > continue to play > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > Martinho. > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge MA. > > Denise D'Antona ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Cece, This interests you and Paulo, I guess. Gapsar de Moura ancestors. http://picasaweb.google.pt/cisne888/TomoI_1#slideshow/525861

Denise and Pat, In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which was written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New York. The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It is in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts and Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you make any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already there. Thanks, David DeGrella Tennessee, USA On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > Hi Denise, > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> > Manchuria > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' brother, > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Denise, > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex > County. > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also > linked with this family. > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his mother's > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > online input. > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > continue to play > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > Martinho. > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge MA. > > Denise D'Antona

João Escoto or João Drummond or João Escórcio is probably - genealogically speaking - the most famous man from Madeira. In Madeira he is probably one of the most famous Madeirans. He has descendants in Açores, of course. And everywhere. He is known, remembered and honoured in Scotland, nowadays. In Scotland they have kept strongly this clan philosophy. Even today people like the Sinclair (quite popular today because of the Da Vinci Code) pride themselves in being related to João Escoto, and they treasure as co clan fellows the João Escoto descendants. People like Jim Sinclair, from Scotland, who is an historian and genealogist have written about João Escoto quite recently, and have discovered some stuff about him in old scottish documents. For Jim Sinclair (who is also the descendant of the man who built the famous Rosslyn Chapel, in Scotland, a bizarre and intriguing jewel of architecture) there is no doubt that João Escoto or João Drummond from madeira was a scion of the Drummonds. Gang warily! Miguel On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques < [email protected]> wrote: > Cece and Pat and all João Escoto descendants > > Have a look on this site: > > http://martinromano.com/ps05/ps05_413.htm > > Seems well organized, with careful organized data. about the Drummonds of > Madeira, of course. > > Enjoy, > > Miguel >

Cece and Pat and all João Escoto descendants Have a look on this site: http://martinromano.com/ps05/ps05_413.htm Seems well organized, with careful organized data. about the Drummonds of Madeira, of course. Enjoy, Miguel

Cece, I'm "game," willing to tackle this tangled web... Here's what I have: John Drummond Escorcio m. Branca Afonso da Cunha April 1430 Santa Cruz, Funchal I have 8 children for this couple, of which Joanna (or Ana) Escorcio is one of them. I have her husband as being Andred Pires (Capitao-Mor). They have two children (1) Ines Pires Escorcio m. Rui Goncalves de Gramacho (2) Beatris Pires m. Fernao Favilla. Now for John Drummond Escorcio's other marriage to Catarina Vaz de Lordelo(or as Miguel stated just Catarina Vaz). I have one child for John and Catarina...a daughter by the name of Catarina Escorcia married to Pedro Ferreira Teixeira. I do not have any children listed for Catarina and Pedro... Hope this is correct...I wouldn't want to lose John Drummond Escorcio and Branca Afonso da Cunha for the currently are my 15th Great-Grandparents. ;-)). Happy New Year ! Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cece Camara" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:50:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Joao Escorcio Drummond I just found a discrepancy on Leandro's site and am wondering which info may be correct...if it is known. I have Joao Escorcio Drummond married twice- once to Branca Afonso (no parents listed for her) with 9 children - one of them being Joana Escorcio who married Andre Pires. Joao married again with Catarina Vaz (no parents for her)...I show they had 1 daughter, Catarina Escorcio who married Pedro Teixiera. Leandro shows Joaos 2nd wife, Catarina Vaz, to be Catarina Vaz de Lordelo - and he shows 1 child for them names Ana Escorcio who is married to Andre Pires (this is obviously the person I refer to as Joana above). Leandro also shows the daughter Catarina Escorcio (the one I show above as the daughter of Catarina), who is married to Pedro Teixeira - to be the daughter of Branca. So the questions are - is Joao Escorcio Drummonds daughter (the one who married Andre Pires) named Joana or Ana and is her mother Catarina or Branca? And is Joao Escorcio Drummonds daughter, Catarina Escorcio (who married Pedro Teixeira) the daughter of Catarina or Branca? whewww...good luck to anyone who wishes to tackle this tangled web ;-) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message