Hello Linda, Caxuxo is the name of a fish and Feiticeiro is a wizard. (shaman, healer). The talent subsides? The Agrelas solo or with another name annexed stem from the same original Agrelas, so they are all related . Unless they are the descendants of a slave who took the name of his/her owner. Cheers, Miguel On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:32 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Pat and list, > yes, I have been following right along with all the postings. I remember > being in touch with David a few years back concerning his Agrella line. And > yes, there are some of his line in Arco da Calheta, however, my line is > exclusively "Souza Agrella" and there does seem to be an exclusive "Agrella" > line. When viewing the microfilm it is easy to take note of the two > separate families. > -To David, I have in my line Caxuxo. I have a Manuel Rodrigues Caxuxo m. > 4 Aug 1687 in Arco da Calheta to a Maria Jozeph or Joze who had 3 sons > (Antonio, Manuel, and Joao) who took the Rodrigues Caxuxo name. I have no > clue what Caxuxo means, but it only lasted a generation or two in my family. > -I have a question for the list. I have come across a character in my > research - not a direct line, but also connected with the Rodrigues Caxuxo I > mentioned above. His name is Francisco Vieira 'o feiticeiro' whose father > was Manuel Vieira 'o feiticeiro (time frame about 1685-1740 in Arco da > Calheta/Madelena do Mar area). How does one interpret "feiticeiro" as it > translates to wizard. Being unfamiliar with the culture of the time what > can one assume? Was he a healer, an entertainer, or one who did magic > tricks? > Linda Teixeira Crandall > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:31 pm > Subject: PRT-MADEIRA Digest, Vol 5, Issue 5 > > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: FYI:caxaxo? (Miguel de Castro Henriques) > 2. Re: Ordonhes e Cairos (Miguel de Castro Henriques) > 3. Re: Nobrega Clan (Pat Corbera) > 4. Attn: Linda T. Crandall (Pat Corbera) > 5. Re: Nobrega Clan ([email protected]) > > > Attached Message > > > From: > Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> > > To: > [email protected] > > Subject: > Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FYI:caxaxo? > > Date: > Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:27:28 +0000 > > > > Scot, > Good try. Bu I don't think so. Cachaça (rum) is a specific brazilian term. > axaxo must be some slang specific from Madeira. > The nearest - homophonycally speaking - is cachaço. The back of the neckt > f an ox. > Cheers, > Miguel > > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Scot Austin <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Could it be Cachaça? > > Scot > > Mary Frost wrote: > > Good morning Miguel: > > I did not find the word in any of my multiple dictionaries so I went > back > to > > my notes to locate the source of my information. I find I did not state > the > > source. As you are the native speaker, I will stand corrected. > > Mary > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > > Henriques > > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:35 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FYI:caxaxo? > > > > Hello Mary, > > > > You say "Caxaxo: it means the person in question was > > either lame or had one leg shorter than the other." > > > > That would be c o x o. Caxaxo is something else. > > > > regards, > > > > MIguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > >> Hello All: > >> > >> I have just a quick comment regarding this word found in a document. > >> > > Caxaxo > > > >> is not an occupation but a descriptive: it means the person in question > >> > > was > > > >> either lame or had one leg shorter than the other. > >> > >> Mary > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > Attached Message > > > From: > Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> > > To: > [email protected] > > Subject: > Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > Date: > Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:49:05 +0000 > > > > Denise and José, > As one can see in the "Tombo da Câmara" Francisco Cairos de Orta was > escrivão judicial." (a top bureaucrat of the Funchal Court). > rior to him and probably his ancestor we have a certain Diogo de Orta, who > as a land owner of some dimension. > a) Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos were relatives. Cousins in the 4 th > egree. Maria de Cairos had an aunt ; Beatriz Vaz. > b) Gabriel Vaz was a dweller in Camacha when he married. > c) Manuel Tavares was the "nephew " of Maria Tavares.- (He married Aldonça > odiunho, 1582), dau of João Godinho (Escudeiro) and Isabel Cré (form the > nteresting Crés. Felisberto says they come from Creagh - Irish name. The > yth says they come from Guillaume de la Longue Epée) > .d) Manuel Tavares was the son of Bernardo Martins (Mascarenhas, according > o Felisberto). > > Beatriz Vaz was the dau of Brás Afonso and sister of Francisco Brás married > ith Juliana de Cairos. > > All this alows us to infer which was the social frame in which these Cairos > ere inserted. Upper middle class, top bureaucrats. Connections to > obility. Fleisbetro considers Fernardo Martins borther of Duar6tye Martins, > CR (Fidalgo da Casa Real). > They are most certainly related to the famous Constantino de Cairos, Knight > nd warrior. > > As a foot note, from these Cairos Vaz, proceed the Freitas leal who had a > iuse and miorgadio in Lombo do Folhadal - Porto da Cruz - later known as > ombo dos Leais. > > NOTE - al these references were taken from FMPS, pg 392 > > Cheers, > Miguel > > > > Miguel > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hello José, > > Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos and > do > you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the marriage was > given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe they were from > Camacha. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Miguel, > Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz or > Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage and he > doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a D'Orta. Is it > possible it is just that he had a "horta"? > We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my > 11th, > from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! > > I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. > This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. > > As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras de > Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I shall > visit > itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore the castle? I > like > the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all over the world now! > > The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. > > On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married in > 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de > Castro > (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. Can't > find > that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the way, Gonçalo is a > "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro Afonso, he was a "lavrador" > and > seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's mother > a > widow- Gregória Martins. > Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? > > José > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:p > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:27 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos > > José, > > He is the same Francisco. Sometimes name were shortened > Anyway the d'Orta name puzzles me. There are the Hurtere, Flemish, from > Açores (which gave the name to cidade da Horta), and the Horta, from > Spain. > Could he be from Açores ? From the Hurtere branch? Never heard someone > raising this question before. May be I am 100% wrong. > > The Sás or Sousas e Sás from Caniço are, in part Sousas (by way of > Jerónimo > de Sousa, the trunk of that line) from Açores. I can't remember now their > Sá > name origin. It was a mighty name then, not common, though there were > some > Sás commoners and a few Sás nobles. Anyway a noble having Sá as a name > would > use it proudly. Like the Bettencourts de Sá did. > Curuosly the Sás originate in Porto (Portugal) from bourgeois origins, > around the mid 14 th century. So it's not that old. (A really old name in > Portugal is a name existing before 1143, before King Afonso Henriques > declared independence from Castille) when Portugal was still Comitat > Portucalensis. > > I also have lots of Corrêas de Miranda (from Caniço) , coming from the > first > Corrêa de Miranda settler. Do you have them too? Actually my g.grand > mother > was Eulália de Jesus Corrêa de Miranda, her godfather was Morgado Jacinto > de > Freitas Lomelino, still a relative. She married a Nóbrega from the line > of > Mundos da Nóbrega. (They say Mundos name was Edmundo. It's quite > probable. > But I like the way it stayed for posterity : Mundos. The translation in > English, of course, is "Worlds". Quite meaningful. At least I give it a > lot > of meaning, though Mundos was illiterate. I have his signature, a typical > cross. ) > > The point about the origin of the Nóbrega surname is: was Nóbrega a > toponymic, or not? In short , did the first Madeira Nóbrega came from the > "Terras de Nóbrega", or did they carry the name Nóbrega? In the later > case > they could be a branch of the Aboim. But I have not seen this problem > satisfactorily solved. One day, if Nóbrega is an added patronymic then wi > will have to dive in the Gonçalves of Terras de Anóbrega - another way of > saying Nóbrega. And that's for sure cnossian! > > The Regos seems to be from Algarve. The trunk of the Vianas, according to > primo Clode, was Afonso Viana, from Caniço. > > >From him was descended João de Viana, Fidalgo Escudeiro da Casa Real, > "whose > descendants mixed with the Cairos from Caniço".(source: Clode. FMPS pg > 333). > > The Vianas in that time were very rich, had a marble tomb, much envied, > because they were perhaps the only ones in Madeira to afford such a > luxury. > (There is no marble in Madeira). Other noble families wanted to have a > marble tomb " na feissão da de João de Vianna) (similar to the marble tom > of > the magnífico Viana). > > Don' forget ti tell me about your Dias Saldanha. > > Mine were Manuel Dias Saldanha m. Maria de Andrada ( from the Ferreira > Noronhas). His parents were Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. (m. > around 162...) > Perdo Dias Saldanha was a natural son of Diogo Annes Saldanha (ouvidor de > Machico) and Concórdia Fernandes. (I suppose Concórdia was a black woman, > or > mestiça. But I don't know why I suppose so. Perhaps Paulo can shed some > light in here* She was Diogo's "amiga". (lovely expression for lover.) > Ana Henriques, obviously, interests me. Now the Henriques name, being a > patronymic, is a hard bone to crunch. Unfortunately there is no marriage > certificate for Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. > > The interesting thing is to find Saldanhas in Madeira, at an early time. > Almost after the first settlement. I am almost sure . due to their > status, > that they were from the Saldanhas that came to Portugal from Spain. > > And as I lived quite near Praça do Saldanha , in Lisbon ( Duke of > Saldanha > Square) during many years, this name interests me a lot. I also have > friends > with that name, direct descendants of the first Saldanhas who came to > Portugal. > > About Madalena Jorge, i have scores of Jorges too. Some, were from Porto > Santo, descendants of Pedro Jorge (From the terrible mess of the mid 16 > th > Calaças). Others from Gaula, and have nothing to do with the former. And > still others like BeatrizJorge married to Manuel Afonso, (16 th century) > that I can't track. > > > Regards, > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > Attached Message > > > From: > Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > > To: > [email protected] > > Subject: > Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Date: > Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:22:55 +0000 (UTC) > > > > Denise and David, > Denise, the posting/e-mail exchange that focused on the name of "Chicaro," > had > o do with my cousin...at this point I'm not too sure it was anything to do > with > avid's research...but I need to re-read that complete exchange. > David, > Have you obtained copies of the vital records from the Madeira Archives for > your > ncestors that you listed on the pedigree chart that you sent to me? > Pat > ---- Original Message ----- > rom: [email protected] > o: [email protected] > ent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:26:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > i Pat and David, > > at - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never answered > ou. > nfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I have > ever viewed the Caniço films. I do have his birthdate of 25 Aug 1906 and > he > ied in Pico do Funcho, São Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. Clarisse was > orn in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 May 1987. > They did not have any children. They were married around 1960. I agree > ith you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I would love to > ursue it. If you have access to the Caniço films, maybe you could look > p Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be what we > eed right now. > aybe that information would help establish a link with David as well. > > enise D'Antona > > n a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > Denise and Pat, > In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which was > ritten by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New York. > he letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It is > n Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from > adeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts and > obrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you make > ny connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe > assachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already there. > hanks, > avid DeGrella > ennessee, USA > On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera > [email protected]> writes: > Hi Denise, > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> > Manchuria > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' brother, > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Denise, > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex > County. > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also > linked with this family. > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his mother's > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > online input. > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > continue to play > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > Martinho. > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge MA. > > Denise D'Antona > > ------------------------------- > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > n the subject > nd the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > he message > > > > > > > Attached Message > > > From: > Pat Corbera <[email protected]> > > To: > Prt-Madeira List Group <[email protected]> > > Subject: > [PT-MADEIRA] Attn: Linda T. Crandall > > Date: > Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:34:25 +0000 (UTC) > > > > Hi Prima Linda, > Have you been following the postings by David DeGrella? > With your "keen," knowledge of Arco da Calheta, any info that you can add > to > his search would be greatly appreciated. > I noticed that you have Agrela/Silva ancestors from Arco... do you see any > onnection/s with your family and David's? > Prima Pat > > > > > > Attached Message > > > From: > [email protected] > > To: > [email protected] > > Subject: > Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Date: > Sun, 3 Jan 2010 14:14:43 EST > > > > > i Pat, > > also did check my file and Clarisse did have a cousin named Elisa but she > was born in 1899. Though that Elisa could have been a child that died and > the one in 1904 could be a sister of hers. > > enise > > n a message dated 1/3/2010 12:23:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > Denise and David, > Denise, the posting/e-mail exchange that focused on the name of "Chicaro," > ad to do with my cousin...at this point I'm not too sure it was anything > o do with David's research...but I need to re-read that complete exchange. > David, > Have you obtained copies of the vital records from the Madeira Archives > or your ancestors that you listed on the pedigree chart that you sent to > me? > Pat > ---- Original Message ----- > rom: [email protected] > o: [email protected] > ent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:26:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Hi Pat and David, > Pat - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never answered > ou. > nfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I have > ever viewed the Caniço films. I do have his birthdate of 25 Aug 1906 > nd he > ied in Pico do Funcho, São Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. Clarisse > as > orn in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 May > 987. > hey did not have any children. They were married around 1960. I agree > ith you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I would love > o > ursue it. If you have access to the Caniço films, maybe you could look > p Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be what we > eed right now. > aybe that information would help establish a link with David as well. > Denise D'Antona > In a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > Denise and Pat, > In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which was > ritten by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New York. > he letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It is > n Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from > adeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts and > obrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you make > ny connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe > assachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already there. > hanks, > avid DeGrella > ennessee, USA > On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera > [email protected]> writes: > Hi Denise, > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> > Manchuria > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' brother, > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Denise, > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex > County. > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also > linked with this family. > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his mother's > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > online input. > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > continue to play > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > Martinho. > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge MA. > > Denise D'Antona > > ------------------------------- > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > uotes in the subject > nd the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > n the subject > nd the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > n the subject > nd the body of the message > > > > > To contact the PRT-MADEIRA list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > o post a message to the PRT-MADEIRA mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > > _________________________________________________________ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > ith the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > he > mail with no additional text. > > = > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I am looking for any information on Francisco Lucas &Maria J. (Pereira) Lucas far as I know born and married in Maderia do not know what village Their daughter was Margaret R. Lucas I believe her middle name was Rodgigues born June 12, 1912 IN Fall River Mass. They lived in Rochester NY and Mass. and R.I. through out their lives.

Wow - you are dancing all over my ancestors here - a & b are all are mine as well as Diogo D'orta although I do not have him tied to Francisco yet. I am actually decended from Diogo through his daughter Vitoria de Cairos who m. Joao de Lamego. (I love this ancestor - when we were in Portugal for Euro 2004 w actually tourned a famour ham factory in Lamego...which of course I had no idea of any connection to that name at that time!) Does anyone have the connection made netween Diogo D'orta and Francisco Cairos de Orta. Sounds like a great line for me to get to work on ;-) Cece -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fernandes, Jose Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 8:33 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos Denise, I also have the marriage in 1559. I don't have a copy of the certificate, but I will be ordering it in the future. Camacha is just up the mountain from Caniço. Many of the original families of Camacha are from Caniço (Nóbregas et al) or from Gaula which is just next door. I believe that Camacha separated from Caniço in 1673. José Fernandes -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos Denise and José, As one can see in the "Tombo da Câmara" Francisco Cairos de Orta was "escrivão judicial." (a top bureaucrat of the Funchal Court). Prior to him and probably his ancestor we have a certain Diogo de Orta, who was a land owner of some dimension. a) Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos were relatives. Cousins in the 4 th degree. Maria de Cairos had an aunt ; Beatriz Vaz. b) Gabriel Vaz was a dweller in Camacha when he married. c) Manuel Tavares was the "nephew " of Maria Tavares.- (He married Aldonça Godiunho, 1582), dau of João Godinho (Escudeiro) and Isabel Cré (form the interesting Crés. Felisberto says they come from Creagh - Irish name. The myth says they come from Guillaume de la Longue Epée) .d) Manuel Tavares was the son of Bernardo Martins (Mascarenhas, according to Felisberto). Beatriz Vaz was the dau of Brás Afonso and sister of Francisco Brás married with Juliana de Cairos. All this alows us to infer which was the social frame in which these Cairos were inserted. Upper middle class, top bureaucrats. Connections to nobility. Fleisbetro considers Fernardo Martins borther of Duar6tye Martins, FCR (Fidalgo da Casa Real). They are most certainly related to the famous Constantino de Cairos, Knight and warrior. As a foot note, from these Cairos Vaz, proceed the Freitas leal who had a hiuse and miorgadio in Lombo do Folhadal - Porto da Cruz - later known as Lombo dos Leais. NOTE - al these references were taken from FMPS, pg 392 Cheers, Miguel Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello José, > > Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos > and do you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the > marriage was given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe > they were from Camacha. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Miguel, > Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz > or Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage > and he doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a > D'Orta. Is it possible it is just that he had a "horta"? > We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my > 11th, from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! > > I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. > This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. > > As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras > de Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I > shall visit itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore > the castle? I like the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all > over the world now! > > The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. > > On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married > in > 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de > Castro (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda > Dias. Can't find that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the > way, Gonçalo is a "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro > Afonso, he was a "lavrador" > and > seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's > mother a > widow- Gregória Martins. > Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? > > José > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date: 01/03/10 09:41:00

I still did not see them properly. But I enjoyed reading "O Cavaleiro de Santa Catarina". I don't think it's necessary to have the password. Just follow the link that Jeff posted. Then you e-books option on the old Nesos front page- Miguel On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 9:48 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > yes...but i forgot my password, but probably im able to retrieve it, > right? > > if so...which e-books do u reccomend? whats the website? > > Thank u > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 1/4/2010 10:44:11 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Did you have an account of NESOS? > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 8:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > How can i access the e-books miguel? > > > > Thank u > > > > Leandro > > > > > > In a message dated 1/4/2010 7:07:37 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Yep, I got the same result. Looks like it only saved the front > > webpages, but NESOS had saved Das > > Artes e da Historia da Madeira (for example) as jpg's which were not > > stored. Well it was worth a try. > > Jeff > > > > On Jan 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > > I still have my password but can not open any page, They say no pages > > available. > > > > Anyway there are some e-books available. > > > > And that's good. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Miguel > > > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:09 PM, JAndrade1 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > I was looking at the posts about NESOS.net and may have found > > > something. > > > If you go to archive.org and enter "nesos.net: in the wayback > > > machine, you get links to the old versions of the site. > > > Now, the site is still password protected from the looks of it. Since > > > NESOS doesn't exist anymore, I can't get a password. so I'm not sure > > > if I can access the individual pages to see if anything is still > > > there on the subpages. > > > Does anybody remember there user name and password for the site? If > > > so, could I try them out to see if it is all still there? > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Did you have an account of NESOS? On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 8:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > How can i access the e-books miguel? > > Thank u > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 1/4/2010 7:07:37 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Yep, I got the same result. Looks like it only saved the front > webpages, but NESOS had saved Das > Artes e da Historia da Madeira (for example) as jpg's which were not > stored. Well it was worth a try. > Jeff > > On Jan 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > I still have my password but can not open any page, They say no pages > available. > > Anyway there are some e-books available. > > And that's good. > > Thanks, > > Miguel > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:09 PM, JAndrade1 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I was looking at the posts about NESOS.net and may have found > > something. > > If you go to archive.org and enter "nesos.net: in the wayback > > machine, you get links to the old versions of the site. > > Now, the site is still password protected from the looks of it. Since > > NESOS doesn't exist anymore, I can't get a password. so I'm not sure > > if I can access the individual pages to see if anything is still > > there on the subpages. > > Does anybody remember there user name and password for the site? If > > so, could I try them out to see if it is all still there? > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Pat and list, yes, I have been following right along with all the postings. I remember being in touch with David a few years back concerning his Agrella line. And yes, there are some of his line in Arco da Calheta, however, my line is exclusively "Souza Agrella" and there does seem to be an exclusive "Agrella" line. When viewing the microfilm it is easy to take note of the two separate families. -To David, I have in my line Caxuxo. I have a Manuel Rodrigues Caxuxo m. 4 Aug 1687 in Arco da Calheta to a Maria Jozeph or Joze who had 3 sons (Antonio, Manuel, and Joao) who took the Rodrigues Caxuxo name. I have no clue what Caxuxo means, but it only lasted a generation or two in my family. -I have a question for the list. I have come across a character in my research - not a direct line, but also connected with the Rodrigues Caxuxo I mentioned above. His name is Francisco Vieira 'o feiticeiro' whose father was Manuel Vieira 'o feiticeiro (time frame about 1685-1740 in Arco da Calheta/Madelena do Mar area). How does one interpret "feiticeiro" as it translates to wizard. Being unfamiliar with the culture of the time what can one assume? Was he a healer, an entertainer, or one who did magic tricks? Linda Teixeira Crandall -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:31 pm Subject: PRT-MADEIRA Digest, Vol 5, Issue 5 Today's Topics: 1. Re: FYI:caxaxo? (Miguel de Castro Henriques) 2. Re: Ordonhes e Cairos (Miguel de Castro Henriques) 3. Re: Nobrega Clan (Pat Corbera) 4. Attn: Linda T. Crandall (Pat Corbera) 5. Re: Nobrega Clan ([email protected]) Attached Message From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FYI:caxaxo? Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:27:28 +0000 Scot, Good try. Bu I don't think so. Cachaça (rum) is a specific brazilian term. axaxo must be some slang specific from Madeira. The nearest - homophonycally speaking - is cachaço. The back of the neckt f an ox. Cheers, Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Scot Austin <[email protected]> wrote: > Could it be Cachaça? Scot Mary Frost wrote: > Good morning Miguel: > I did not find the word in any of my multiple dictionaries so I went back to > my notes to locate the source of my information. I find I did not state the > source. As you are the native speaker, I will stand corrected. > Mary > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro > Henriques > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FYI:caxaxo? > > Hello Mary, > > You say "Caxaxo: it means the person in question was > either lame or had one leg shorter than the other." > > That would be c o x o. Caxaxo is something else. > > regards, > > MIguel > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Mary Frost <[email protected] >wrote: > > >> Hello All: >> >> I have just a quick comment regarding this word found in a document. >> > Caxaxo > >> is not an occupation but a descriptive: it means the person in question >> > was > >> either lame or had one leg shorter than the other. >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Attached Message From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:49:05 +0000 Denise and José, As one can see in the "Tombo da Câmara" Francisco Cairos de Orta was escrivão judicial." (a top bureaucrat of the Funchal Court). rior to him and probably his ancestor we have a certain Diogo de Orta, who as a land owner of some dimension. a) Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos were relatives. Cousins in the 4 th egree. Maria de Cairos had an aunt ; Beatriz Vaz. b) Gabriel Vaz was a dweller in Camacha when he married. c) Manuel Tavares was the "nephew " of Maria Tavares.- (He married Aldonça odiunho, 1582), dau of João Godinho (Escudeiro) and Isabel Cré (form the nteresting Crés. Felisberto says they come from Creagh - Irish name. The yth says they come from Guillaume de la Longue Epée) .d) Manuel Tavares was the son of Bernardo Martins (Mascarenhas, according o Felisberto). Beatriz Vaz was the dau of Brás Afonso and sister of Francisco Brás married ith Juliana de Cairos. All this alows us to infer which was the social frame in which these Cairos ere inserted. Upper middle class, top bureaucrats. Connections to obility. Fleisbetro considers Fernardo Martins borther of Duar6tye Martins, CR (Fidalgo da Casa Real). They are most certainly related to the famous Constantino de Cairos, Knight nd warrior. As a foot note, from these Cairos Vaz, proceed the Freitas leal who had a iuse and miorgadio in Lombo do Folhadal - Porto da Cruz - later known as ombo dos Leais. NOTE - al these references were taken from FMPS, pg 392 Cheers, Miguel Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello José, Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos and do you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the marriage was given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe they were from Camacha. Denise D'Antona In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Miguel, Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz or Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage and he doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a D'Orta. Is it possible it is just that he had a "horta"? We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my 11th, from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras de Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I shall visit itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore the castle? I like the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all over the world now! The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married in 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de Castro (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. Can't find that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the way, Gonçalo is a "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro Afonso, he was a "lavrador" and seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's mother a widow- Gregória Martins. Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? José -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:p [email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos José, He is the same Francisco. Sometimes name were shortened Anyway the d'Orta name puzzles me. There are the Hurtere, Flemish, from Açores (which gave the name to cidade da Horta), and the Horta, from Spain. Could he be from Açores ? From the Hurtere branch? Never heard someone raising this question before. May be I am 100% wrong. The Sás or Sousas e Sás from Caniço are, in part Sousas (by way of Jerónimo de Sousa, the trunk of that line) from Açores. I can't remember now their Sá name origin. It was a mighty name then, not common, though there were some Sás commoners and a few Sás nobles. Anyway a noble having Sá as a name would use it proudly. Like the Bettencourts de Sá did. Curuosly the Sás originate in Porto (Portugal) from bourgeois origins, around the mid 14 th century. So it's not that old. (A really old name in Portugal is a name existing before 1143, before King Afonso Henriques declared independence from Castille) when Portugal was still Comitat Portucalensis. I also have lots of Corrêas de Miranda (from Caniço) , coming from the first Corrêa de Miranda settler. Do you have them too? Actually my g.grand mother was Eulália de Jesus Corrêa de Miranda, her godfather was Morgado Jacinto de Freitas Lomelino, still a relative. She married a Nóbrega from the line of Mundos da Nóbrega. (They say Mundos name was Edmundo. It's quite probable. But I like the way it stayed for posterity : Mundos. The translation in English, of course, is "Worlds". Quite meaningful. At least I give it a lot of meaning, though Mundos was illiterate. I have his signature, a typical cross. ) The point about the origin of the Nóbrega surname is: was Nóbrega a toponymic, or not? In short , did the first Madeira Nóbrega came from the "Terras de Nóbrega", or did they carry the name Nóbrega? In the later case they could be a branch of the Aboim. But I have not seen this problem satisfactorily solved. One day, if Nóbrega is an added patronymic then wi will have to dive in the Gonçalves of Terras de Anóbrega - another way of saying Nóbrega. And that's for sure cnossian! The Regos seems to be from Algarve. The trunk of the Vianas, according to primo Clode, was Afonso Viana, from Caniço. >From him was descended João de Viana, Fidalgo Escudeiro da Casa Real, "whose descendants mixed with the Cairos from Caniço".(source: Clode. FMPS pg 333). The Vianas in that time were very rich, had a marble tomb, much envied, because they were perhaps the only ones in Madeira to afford such a luxury. (There is no marble in Madeira). Other noble families wanted to have a marble tomb " na feissão da de João de Vianna) (similar to the marble tom of the magnífico Viana). Don' forget ti tell me about your Dias Saldanha. Mine were Manuel Dias Saldanha m. Maria de Andrada ( from the Ferreira Noronhas). His parents were Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. (m. around 162...) Perdo Dias Saldanha was a natural son of Diogo Annes Saldanha (ouvidor de Machico) and Concórdia Fernandes. (I suppose Concórdia was a black woman, or mestiça. But I don't know why I suppose so. Perhaps Paulo can shed some light in here* She was Diogo's "amiga". (lovely expression for lover.) Ana Henriques, obviously, interests me. Now the Henriques name, being a patronymic, is a hard bone to crunch. Unfortunately there is no marriage certificate for Pedro Dias Saldanha and Ana Henriques. The interesting thing is to find Saldanhas in Madeira, at an early time. Almost after the first settlement. I am almost sure . due to their status, that they were from the Saldanhas that came to Portugal from Spain. And as I lived quite near Praça do Saldanha , in Lisbon ( Duke of Saldanha Square) during many years, this name interests me a lot. I also have friends with that name, direct descendants of the first Saldanhas who came to Portugal. About Madalena Jorge, i have scores of Jorges too. Some, were from Porto Santo, descendants of Pedro Jorge (From the terrible mess of the mid 16 th Calaças). Others from Gaula, and have nothing to do with the former. And still others like BeatrizJorge married to Manuel Afonso, (16 th century) that I can't track. Regards, Miguel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Attached Message From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Denise and David, Denise, the posting/e-mail exchange that focused on the name of "Chicaro," had o do with my cousin...at this point I'm not too sure it was anything to do with avid's research...but I need to re-read that complete exchange. David, Have you obtained copies of the vital records from the Madeira Archives for your ncestors that you listed on the pedigree chart that you sent to me? Pat ---- Original Message ----- rom: [email protected] o: [email protected] ent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:26:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan i Pat and David, at - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never answered ou. nfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I have ever viewed the Caniço films. I do have his birthdate of 25 Aug 1906 and he ied in Pico do Funcho, São Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. Clarisse was orn in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 May 1987. They did not have any children. They were married around 1960. I agree ith you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I would love to ursue it. If you have access to the Caniço films, maybe you could look p Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be what we eed right now. aybe that information would help establish a link with David as well. enise D'Antona n a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Denise and Pat, In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which was ritten by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New York. he letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It is n Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from adeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts and obrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you make ny connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe assachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already there. hanks, avid DeGrella ennessee, USA On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera [email protected]> writes: Hi Denise, I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> Manchuria Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 (Source: Ancestry.com) Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico Final Destination - Cambridge MA Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' brother, that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Denise, This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex County. I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also linked with this family. To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his mother's maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM online input. I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others continue to play "hide and seek." ;-)). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao Martinho. My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge MA. Denise D'Antona ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes n the subject nd the body of the message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message Attached Message From: Pat Corbera <[email protected]> To: Prt-Madeira List Group <[email protected]> Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Attn: Linda T. Crandall Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:34:25 +0000 (UTC) Hi Prima Linda, Have you been following the postings by David DeGrella? With your "keen," knowledge of Arco da Calheta, any info that you can add to his search would be greatly appreciated. I noticed that you have Agrela/Silva ancestors from Arco... do you see any onnection/s with your family and David's? Prima Pat Attached Message From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 14:14:43 EST i Pat, also did check my file and Clarisse did have a cousin named Elisa but she was born in 1899. Though that Elisa could have been a child that died and the one in 1904 could be a sister of hers. enise n a message dated 1/3/2010 12:23:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Denise and David, Denise, the posting/e-mail exchange that focused on the name of "Chicaro," ad to do with my cousin...at this point I'm not too sure it was anything o do with David's research...but I need to re-read that complete exchange. David, Have you obtained copies of the vital records from the Madeira Archives or your ancestors that you listed on the pedigree chart that you sent to me? Pat ---- Original Message ----- rom: [email protected] o: [email protected] ent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:26:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Hi Pat and David, Pat - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never answered ou. nfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I have ever viewed the Caniço films. I do have his birthdate of 25 Aug 1906 nd he ied in Pico do Funcho, São Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. Clarisse as orn in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 May 987. hey did not have any children. They were married around 1960. I agree ith you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I would love o ursue it. If you have access to the Caniço films, maybe you could look p Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be what we eed right now. aybe that information would help establish a link with David as well. Denise D'Antona In a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Denise and Pat, In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which was ritten by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New York. he letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". It is n Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news from adeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With Massachusetts and obrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you make ny connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe assachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already there. hanks, avid DeGrella ennessee, USA On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera [email protected]> writes: Hi Denise, I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> October>16> Manchuria Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 (Source: Ancestry.com) Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico Final Destination - Cambridge MA Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' brother, that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal grandparents. What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Denise, This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis Nobrega Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born abt 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in Middlesex County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also Middlesex County. I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are also linked with this family. To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently came across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport Records... his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his mother's maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of my maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM online input. I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others continue to play "hide and seek." ;-)). Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao Martinho. My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge MA. Denise D'Antona ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject nd the body of the message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes n the subject nd the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes n the subject nd the body of the message To contact the PRT-MADEIRA list administrator, send an email to [email protected] o post a message to the PRT-MADEIRA mailing list, send an email to [email protected] _________________________________________________________ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of he mail with no additional text. =

Hi Jose, Thank you for the information about the two towns. My research has been mainly in Funchal and only recently have discovered the ties to Canico, Camara de Lobos, and Calheta. I have been fortunate enough to go to all of these places when I was younger and hope to go again in the next few years. Denise In a message dated 1/4/2010 9:33:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Denise, I also have the marriage in 1559. I don't have a copy of the certificate, but I will be ordering it in the future. Camacha is just up the mountain from Caniço. Many of the original families of Camacha are from Caniço (Nóbregas et al) or from Gaula which is just next door. I believe that Camacha separated from Caniço in 1673. José Fernandes -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos Denise and José, As one can see in the "Tombo da Câmara" Francisco Cairos de Orta was "escrivão judicial." (a top bureaucrat of the Funchal Court). Prior to him and probably his ancestor we have a certain Diogo de Orta, who was a land owner of some dimension. a) Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos were relatives. Cousins in the 4 th degree. Maria de Cairos had an aunt ; Beatriz Vaz. b) Gabriel Vaz was a dweller in Camacha when he married. c) Manuel Tavares was the "nephew " of Maria Tavares.- (He married Aldonça Godiunho, 1582), dau of João Godinho (Escudeiro) and Isabel Cré (form the interesting Crés. Felisberto says they come from Creagh - Irish name. The myth says they come from Guillaume de la Longue Epée) .d) Manuel Tavares was the son of Bernardo Martins (Mascarenhas, according to Felisberto). Beatriz Vaz was the dau of Brás Afonso and sister of Francisco Brás married with Juliana de Cairos. All this alows us to infer which was the social frame in which these Cairos were inserted. Upper middle class, top bureaucrats. Connections to nobility. Fleisbetro considers Fernardo Martins borther of Duar6tye Martins, FCR (Fidalgo da Casa Real). They are most certainly related to the famous Constantino de Cairos, Knight and warrior. As a foot note, from these Cairos Vaz, proceed the Freitas leal who had a hiuse and miorgadio in Lombo do Folhadal - Porto da Cruz - later known as Lombo dos Leais. NOTE - al these references were taken from FMPS, pg 392 Cheers, Miguel Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello José, > > Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos and do > you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the marriage was > given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe they were from > Camacha. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Miguel, > Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz or > Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage and he > doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a D'Orta. Is it > possible it is just that he had a "horta"? > We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my 11th, > from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! > > I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. > This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. > > As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras de > Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I shall visit > itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore the castle? I > like > the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all over the world now! > > The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. > > On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married in > 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de > Castro > (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. Can't > find > that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the way, Gonçalo is a > "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro Afonso, he was a "lavrador" > and > seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's mother > a > widow- Gregória Martins. > Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? > > José > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here are the links to the only pdfs I could find via archive.org: reminiscencias.pdf : http://web.archive.org/web/20070315232453/ www.nesos.net/imgdocs/nesos_publicar/ebooks/reminiscencias/ reminiscencias.pdf corografia_madeira.pdf : http://web.archive.org/web/20051029050046/ www.nesos.net/imgdocs/nesos_publicar/ebooks/corografia_madeira/ corografia_madeira.pdf cavaleiro_scatarina.pdf : http://web.archive.org/web/20061129031130/ www.nesos.net/imgdocs/nesos_publicar/ebooks/cavaleiro_scatarina/ cavaleiro_scatarina.pdf Infante_Henrique.pdf : http://web.archive.org/web/20060408080412/ www.nesos.net/imgdocs/nesos_publicar/ebooks/Infante_Henrique/ Infante_Henrique.pdf Ponta_Sol.pdf : http://web.archive.org/web/20070310171246/ www.nesos.net/imgdocs/nesos_publicar/ebooks/Ponta_Sol/Ponta_Sol.pdf arquipelago_madeira.pdf : http://web.archive.org/web/20070310171246/ www.nesos.net/imgdocs/nesos_publicar/ebooks/arquipelago_madeira/ arquipelago_madeira.pdf too bad all those other links are dead ends... wish they had those jpg's stashed somewhere, but not to be... On Jan 4, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: I still did not see them properly. But I enjoyed reading "O Cavaleiro de Santa Catarina". I don't think it's necessary to have the password. Just follow the link that Jeff posted. Then you e-books option on the old Nesos front page- Miguel On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 9:48 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > yes...but i forgot my password, but probably im able to retrieve it, > right? > > if so...which e-books do u reccomend? whats the website? > > Thank u > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 1/4/2010 10:44:11 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Did you have an account of NESOS? > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 8:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> How can i access the e-books miguel? >> >> Thank u >> >> Leandro >> >> >> In a message dated 1/4/2010 7:07:37 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Yep, I got the same result. Looks like it only saved the front >> webpages, but NESOS had saved Das >> Artes e da Historia da Madeira (for example) as jpg's which were >> not >> stored. Well it was worth a try. >> Jeff >> >> On Jan 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: >> >> I still have my password but can not open any page, They say no >> pages >> available. >> >> Anyway there are some e-books available. >> >> And that's good. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Miguel >> >> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:09 PM, JAndrade1 <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >>> I was looking at the posts about NESOS.net and may have found >>> something. >>> If you go to archive.org and enter "nesos.net: in the wayback >>> machine, you get links to the old versions of the site. >>> Now, the site is still password protected from the looks of it. >>> Since >>> NESOS doesn't exist anymore, I can't get a password. so I'm not >>> sure >>> if I can access the individual pages to see if anything is still >>> there on the subpages. >>> Does anybody remember there user name and password for the >>> site? If >>> so, could I try them out to see if it is all still there? >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

yes...but i forgot my password, but probably im able to retrieve it, right? if so...which e-books do u reccomend? whats the website? Thank u Leandro In a message dated 1/4/2010 10:44:11 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Did you have an account of NESOS? On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 8:51 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > How can i access the e-books miguel? > > Thank u > > Leandro > > > In a message dated 1/4/2010 7:07:37 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Yep, I got the same result. Looks like it only saved the front > webpages, but NESOS had saved Das > Artes e da Historia da Madeira (for example) as jpg's which were not > stored. Well it was worth a try. > Jeff > > On Jan 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > I still have my password but can not open any page, They say no pages > available. > > Anyway there are some e-books available. > > And that's good. > > Thanks, > > Miguel > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:09 PM, JAndrade1 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I was looking at the posts about NESOS.net and may have found > > something. > > If you go to archive.org and enter "nesos.net: in the wayback > > machine, you get links to the old versions of the site. > > Now, the site is still password protected from the looks of it. Since > > NESOS doesn't exist anymore, I can't get a password. so I'm not sure > > if I can access the individual pages to see if anything is still > > there on the subpages. > > Does anybody remember there user name and password for the site? If > > so, could I try them out to see if it is all still there? > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How can i access the e-books miguel? Thank u Leandro In a message dated 1/4/2010 7:07:37 P.M. W. Europe Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Yep, I got the same result. Looks like it only saved the front webpages, but NESOS had saved Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira (for example) as jpg's which were not stored. Well it was worth a try. Jeff On Jan 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: I still have my password but can not open any page, They say no pages available. Anyway there are some e-books available. And that's good. Thanks, Miguel On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:09 PM, JAndrade1 <[email protected]> wrote: > I was looking at the posts about NESOS.net and may have found > something. > If you go to archive.org and enter "nesos.net: in the wayback > machine, you get links to the old versions of the site. > Now, the site is still password protected from the looks of it. Since > NESOS doesn't exist anymore, I can't get a password. so I'm not sure > if I can access the individual pages to see if anything is still > there on the subpages. > Does anybody remember there user name and password for the site? If > so, could I try them out to see if it is all still there? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I still have my password but can not open any page, They say no pages available. Anyway there are some e-books available. And that's good. Thanks, Miguel On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:09 PM, JAndrade1 <[email protected]> wrote: > I was looking at the posts about NESOS.net and may have found something. > If you go to archive.org and enter "nesos.net: in the wayback > machine, you get links to the old versions of the site. > Now, the site is still password protected from the looks of it. Since > NESOS doesn't exist anymore, I can't get a password. so I'm not sure > if I can access the individual pages to see if anything is still > there on the subpages. > Does anybody remember there user name and password for the site? If > so, could I try them out to see if it is all still there? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Pat, I have sent scans directly to you. Thanks for offering to translate. What you found in the Archive Data Base is the same that was provided to me except it was found in LDS microfilm #1103736. I have references in two different documents to Francisca Candida being a "native" of two different parishes in Funchal: Santa Luzia and Santa Maria. At the time of the marriage, she was noted to be a resident of the parish of Se'. When you asked about scanning the records that I have, do you mean the other records in Addison to those from the Archive? David On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:19:14 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera <[email protected]> writes: > David, > > Scan and send the records that you do have from the Archives, and I'll see if I can translate them for you.. > > I found the marriage info for Joao de Agrella and Perpetua Rosa on the Archive Data Base this morning... > it's ... > Marriage May 31, 1827 Arco da Calheta - 1827 Book 1034 Page 39... > Is that what was provided to you "years ago?" > > I also did not locate any info for Francisca Candida da Silva on the Archive site either. I was hoping that their marriage record would provide a location/village for her. Since they married in the Se' in Funchal, it's possible that she was not from there... > > If you feel comfortable about scanning the records that you do have and sending them to me... I'd be more than happy to see if I can add additional info for you. > > Who did the English translation for you? > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "david-nancy degrella" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2010 1:39:16 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > Pat, > I have marriage records from the Madeira Archives for: > Alexandre de Agrella and Francisca Candida, 1851 (which has been > translated for me into English); > Joao de Agrella and Anna Maria Joaquina, 1804; > Antonio Jose Goncalves and Isabel Joaquina, 1792 (the later two have > not > been translated. The attempt to do it myself was a failure.). > > The information I have on the marriage of Joao de Agrella and > Perpetura > Rose in Arco da Calheta on May 31, 1827, was provided by a member of > this > list several years ago. > > I was unable to find any apparent matches on the Madeira Archives > web > site for the family of Francisca Candida. > > David > > On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera > <[email protected]> writes: > > Denise and David, > > > > Denise, the posting/e-mail exchange that focused on the name of > > "Chicaro," had to do with my cousin...at this point I'm not too > sure > > it was anything to do with David's research...but I need to > re-read > > that complete exchange. > > > > David, > > > > Have you obtained copies of the vital records from the Madeira > > Archives for your ancestors that you listed on the pedigree chart > > that you sent to me? > > > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:26:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > Pacific > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > > > Hi Pat and David, > > > > Pat - I am so sorry, I think I missed a post somewhere and never > > answered > > you. > > Unfortunately, I do not know the names of Luis' parents because I > > > have > > never viewed the Cani?o films. I do have his birthdate of 25 > Aug > > 1906 and he > > died in Pico do Funcho, S?o Martinho, Funchal on 21 Sep 1986. > > Clarisse was > > born in the same Pico do Funcho on 14 Oct 1912 and died there 28 > > May 1987. > > They did not have any children. They were married around 1960. > I > > agree > > with you that the Chicaro name is a key connection here and I > would > > love to > > pursue it. If you have access to the Cani?o films, maybe you > > could look > > up Luis' birth record and get his parents names, that seems to be > > > what we > > need right now. > > Maybe that information would help establish a link with David as > > well. > > > > Denise D'Antona > > > > In a message dated 1/1/2010 9:42:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Denise and Pat, > > > > In our family papers, we have a letter dated May 20, 1962, which > > was > > written by a Henry Nobrega to his aunt Francisca da Silva in New > > York. > > The letter was written from aboard the U.S. Navy ship "Niagara". > > > It is > > in Portuguese and in the letter, Henry Nobrega asks about news > from > > Madeira. The USS Niagara home port was Boston. With > Massachusetts > > and > > Nobrega and Silva all in this series of posts, can either of you > > > make > > any connections? I know the time frame is different, but maybe > > Massachusetts was chosen to come to because of relatives already > > there. > > Thanks, > > David DeGrella > > Tennessee, USA > > > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:22:01 +0000 (UTC) Pat Corbera > > <[email protected]> writes: > > > Hi Denise, > > > > > > I located a New York Passenger Lists. 1820-1957> 1920> > > October>16> > > > Manchuria > > > Sailing from St. Michael's (Sao Miguel, Azores) Oct. 9, 1920 > > > (Source: Ancestry.com) > > > > > > Line 10 Chicharo, Jose N. age 20 married laborer > > > Line 11 Chicharo, Eliza A. age 16 wife domestic > > > from Canico... Next of kin is father Jose N. Chicharro - Canico > > > > Final Destination - Cambridge MA > > > Joining - Uncle Pedro Nobrega - 76 Fifth St. Cambridge, Mass. > > > > > > Denise, I think this is our connection. This must be Luis' > > brother, > > > that your dad said lived in Cambridge, MA. > > > > > > Jose and Eliza/Elisa are my cousin, Joe's maternal > grandparents. > > > > > > What additional info do you have on Luis' family...? > > > > > > Pat > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Pat Corbera" <[email protected]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > > > Pacific > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > > > Denise, > > > > > > This is interesting Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas and Luis > > Nobrega > > > Chicharro... there must be a connection with Joseph Nobrega > > > Chicharro and Elisa Freitas. > > > > > > Joseph Nobrega Chicharro born abt 1900 and Elisa Freitas born > abt > > > > > 1914... What are the birth dates for your Clarisse and Luis? > > > > > > I remember seeing Cambridge MA on the census as being in > > Middlesex > > > County... Joe's (my cousin) family lived in Lowell, also > > Middlesex > > > County. > > > > > > I think Mary Silva Frost, one of our list members also either > > > lives/lived or has family from Lowell... Maybe her Silvas are > > also > > > linked with this family. > > > > > > To add to this mystery/search of finding family, I recently > came > > > across a Manuel Jardim, while viewing the ARM Passport > Records... > > > > > his father is listed with a surname of da Silva Se' and his > > mother's > > > maiden name is Jardim... long story short he is the brother of > my > > > > > maternal grandfather, Antonio da Silva Se'... I would never had > > > > connected him to my da Silva Se' family had it not been for ARM > > > > online input. > > > > > > I think some ancestors/relatives want to be found, while others > > > > continue to play > > > "hide and seek." ;-)). > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:16:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > > > Pacific > > > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Nobrega Clan > > > > > > Thanks Pat. My aunt was Clarisse Goncalves de Freitas from Sao > > > > Martinho. > > > My father said that Luis had a brother that lived in Cambridge > > > MA. > > > > > > Denise D'Antona

Yep, I got the same result. Looks like it only saved the front webpages, but NESOS had saved Das Artes e da Historia da Madeira (for example) as jpg's which were not stored. Well it was worth a try. Jeff On Jan 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: I still have my password but can not open any page, They say no pages available. Anyway there are some e-books available. And that's good. Thanks, Miguel On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:09 PM, JAndrade1 <[email protected]> wrote: > I was looking at the posts about NESOS.net and may have found > something. > If you go to archive.org and enter "nesos.net: in the wayback > machine, you get links to the old versions of the site. > Now, the site is still password protected from the looks of it. Since > NESOS doesn't exist anymore, I can't get a password. so I'm not sure > if I can access the individual pages to see if anything is still > there on the subpages. > Does anybody remember there user name and password for the site? If > so, could I try them out to see if it is all still there? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I was looking at the posts about NESOS.net and may have found something. If you go to archive.org and enter "nesos.net: in the wayback machine, you get links to the old versions of the site. Now, the site is still password protected from the looks of it. Since NESOS doesn't exist anymore, I can't get a password. so I'm not sure if I can access the individual pages to see if anything is still there on the subpages. Does anybody remember there user name and password for the site? If so, could I try them out to see if it is all still there?

Denise, I also have the marriage in 1559. I don't have a copy of the certificate, but I will be ordering it in the future. Camacha is just up the mountain from Caniço. Many of the original families of Camacha are from Caniço (Nóbregas et al) or from Gaula which is just next door. I believe that Camacha separated from Caniço in 1673. José Fernandes -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Ordonhes e Cairos Denise and José, As one can see in the "Tombo da Câmara" Francisco Cairos de Orta was "escrivão judicial." (a top bureaucrat of the Funchal Court). Prior to him and probably his ancestor we have a certain Diogo de Orta, who was a land owner of some dimension. a) Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos were relatives. Cousins in the 4 th degree. Maria de Cairos had an aunt ; Beatriz Vaz. b) Gabriel Vaz was a dweller in Camacha when he married. c) Manuel Tavares was the "nephew " of Maria Tavares.- (He married Aldonça Godiunho, 1582), dau of João Godinho (Escudeiro) and Isabel Cré (form the interesting Crés. Felisberto says they come from Creagh - Irish name. The myth says they come from Guillaume de la Longue Epée) .d) Manuel Tavares was the son of Bernardo Martins (Mascarenhas, according to Felisberto). Beatriz Vaz was the dau of Brás Afonso and sister of Francisco Brás married with Juliana de Cairos. All this alows us to infer which was the social frame in which these Cairos were inserted. Upper middle class, top bureaucrats. Connections to nobility. Fleisbetro considers Fernardo Martins borther of Duar6tye Martins, FCR (Fidalgo da Casa Real). They are most certainly related to the famous Constantino de Cairos, Knight and warrior. As a foot note, from these Cairos Vaz, proceed the Freitas leal who had a hiuse and miorgadio in Lombo do Folhadal - Porto da Cruz - later known as Lombo dos Leais. NOTE - al these references were taken from FMPS, pg 392 Cheers, Miguel Miguel On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello José, > > Do you have the date of marriage for Gabriel Vaz and Maria de Cairos and do > you know who their parents were? When I looked at ARM the marriage was > given as 1559 in Caniço not Camacha, though I believe they were from > Camacha. > > Denise D'Antona > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 11:58:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Miguel, > Here, on Francisco it would be interesting to find where Gabriel Vaz or > Maria de Cairos come from. They marry in Camacha. In his marriage and he > doesn't use D'Orta and then suddenly at his son's he his a D'Orta. Is it > possible it is just that he had a "horta"? > We have had already had a conversation on the Sousas. Jerónimo is my 11th, > from Azores and so on. It is our Irish link! > > I do have a Vitória Miranda married to Marcos Francisco de Braga in 1567. > This is through my Fernandes Veloza main branch. > > As you know I too, Cecce and others link to Mundos de Nóbrega. Terras de > Nóbrega is a beautiful place, at least on the internet site. I shall visit > itr one of these days. FDo you have any money to restore the castle? I > like > the Mundos name. In fact, there are Nóbregas all over the world now! > > The Vianas must come from Viana do Castelo. Been there. Liked the place. > > On Madelena Jorge. It says she was from the Fragas, the one married in > 1622 to Pedro Gonçalves. Her parents were Jorge Dias and Catarina de > Castro > (Caniço, 1585). Jorge's parents are Gonçalo Jorge and Agueda Dias. Can't > find > that certificate. Any help is most welcome! By the way, Gonçalo is a > "mestre d'açucar. Catarina's parents are Pedro Afonso, he was a "lavrador" > and > seemed to have married twice, and Maria Alves. I only know Maria's mother > a > widow- Gregória Martins. > Any links here to Porto Santo. Perhaps through Martins? > > José > >

I was wondering why there are no marriage records available for Sao Vicente prior to 1605 in either the arquivo database or the FHC microfilms. There are pages missing in the films as well. Did they get destroyed somehow? There are baptismal records beginning 1591, so that may be a way to piece the info together. Thanks Jeff

I tried loading this but the pages just hang after a while. Maybe my system/connection that may be slow. If I recall correctly - my password: oneday and username:[email protected] Let me know if you're successful. I really miss that site! And thanks for sharing. Janette On 4-Jan-10, at 7:09 AM, JAndrade1 wrote: > I was looking at the posts about NESOS.net and may have found > something. > If you go to archive.org and enter "nesos.net: in the wayback > machine, you get links to the old versions of the site. > Now, the site is still password protected from the looks of it. Since > NESOS doesn't exist anymore, I can't get a password. so I'm not sure > if I can access the individual pages to see if anything is still > there on the subpages. > Does anybody remember there user name and password for the site? If > so, could I try them out to see if it is all still there? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Just reread this post and I see you wrote .... "Well, when I'll have more time I'll come to this subject one more time. Because I discovered some stuff linking the Cairos, of the line Cairos de Orta, to the Escórcios." This might do it for me ;-)...so, let me know when you have more time ;-O _____ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:10 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Joao Escorcio Drummond Problem begins with the name, Joâo Escórcio Drummond. He was not known by that name in his time, and is not known by that name in the nobiliaries. In his time he was known as João Escórcio or Escórcio. After his death - he revealed his real name on his deathbed (so the story goes) .His male issue took the name Drummond and the females Afonso, as it was the use and custom. After both males and females used either Escócio, Escórcio or Drummond ( and its many homologues: Doromondo, Doromundo, Aramanod, Dormund, etc.). He was also (later) known by João Escoto ( from Scotus - Latin for Scottish). In Portugal Latin was used in documents. He married two times. Branca Afonso was Branca Afonso da Cunha. She was the sister of a vigário - that is a fact. No one knows who these Cunhas were. Catarina Vaz I've seem her reported just as Catarina Vaz, and Vaz de Lordelo. I'd rather choose Catarina Vaz, tout court. In these times peole had just one name and surname. Even people very important like Diogo Afonso de Aguiar, who was a FCR (Fidalgo da Casa Real) and a Knight, was known just as Diogo Afonso, without the "de Aguiar." His name appears like that - Diogo Afonso, several times in the Tombo da Câmara (one of the most important books from Madeira). Well, when I'll have more time I'll come to this subject one more time. Because I discovered some stuff linking the Cairos, of the line Cairos de Orta, to the Escórcios. Cheers, Miguel On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Cece Camara <[email protected]> wrote: I just found a discrepancy on Leandro's site and am wondering which info may be correct...if it is known. I have Joao Escorcio Drummond married twice- once to Branca Afonso (no parents listed for her) with 9 children - one of them being Joana Escorcio who married Andre Pires. Joao married again with Catarina Vaz (no parents for her)...I show they had 1 daughter, Catarina Escorcio who married Pedro Teixiera. Leandro shows Joaos 2nd wife, Catarina Vaz, to be Catarina Vaz de Lordelo - and he shows 1 child for them names Ana Escorcio who is married to Andre Pires (this is obviously the person I refer to as Joana above). Leandro also shows the daughter Catarina Escorcio (the one I show above as the daughter of Catarina), who is married to Pedro Teixeira - to be the daughter of Branca. So the questions are - is Joao Escorcio Drummonds daughter (the one who married Andre Pires) named Joana or Ana and is her mother Catarina or Branca? And is Joao Escorcio Drummonds daughter, Catarina Escorcio (who married Pedro Teixeira) the daughter of Catarina or Branca? whewww...good luck to anyone who wishes to tackle this tangled web ;-) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date: 12/30/09 07:27:00

My ancestral link to Joao Escorcio Drummond was broken some time ago, so I still need to get back to finding a new one ;-) only a matter of time...I am sure of it. So which nobiliarios would you recommend I go back to first? I think 'll start with the site below to see if I can see any common descendants that might also be mine...maybe I'll get lucky ;-) Cece _____ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:45 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Joao Escorcio Drummond Cece and Pat and all João Escoto descendants Have a look on this site: http://martinromano.com/ps05/ps05_413.htm Seems well organized, with careful organized data. about the Drummonds of Madeira, of course. Enjoy, Miguel No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date: 12/31/09 08:52:00

I've spent the last few days going through this massive undertaking...yet to get to Gaspar - but enjoying everything in between! Just realized I never thanked you for posting the link! Cece -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel de Castro Henriques Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 4:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Gaspar de Moura Cece, This interests you and Paulo, I guess. Gapsar de Moura ancestors. http://picasaweb.google.pt/cisne888/TomoI_1#slideshow/525861 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date: 01/01/10 09:20:00