Dear All I have the same problem of knowing how to charge. I have got a timesheet containing a list of tasks and the amount of time they 'normally' take (sounds like what Ian from Scotland was recommending). I then count units of time instead of working with a stop watch in hand. But I've found that while this works for individual searches it doesn't for parish records. You can be looking at pages and pages of them in archaic handwriting, follow hunches in different parishes, trace back a long way before realising you can't link the earlier and later materialisations of a family name... I'm thinking now that for work pre-1837 only the package charging regime will work. What do other people do? Judith Attar London SW8 England

-----Original Message----- From: proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of proresearchers-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 12:01 AM To: proresearchers@rootsweb.com Subject: PRORESEARCHERS Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2 Today's Topics: 1. Re: How much should I charge for lookups at courthouses? (Imchad Ancestry) 2. Thanks for your replies, feedback and tips! (Lily Kansas) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 11:46:29 +0100 From: "Imchad Ancestry" <imchad@freeola.com> Subject: Re: [PRORESEARCHERS] How much should I charge for lookups at courthouses? To: <proresearchers@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <001d01cc7e95$0c02d1c0$24087540$@freeola.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Lily (OFF LIST) I am a professional in Scotland and have been for 11 years now. My advice is to lay out a set of charges which reflect the time that you use and include travelling time and travelling expenses. Remember to allow time for writing up reports and answering queries at home. Many people will try to take advantage of someone who is prepared to do lookups free or cheap. I know that I often end up doing freebies, but it has to be my decision when and where I do them. There is also the issue of 'who's research'. If you do a lookup for someone and charge them for it, that research belongs to them and they can do what they want with it. If you do something for yourself and later someone claims it to be theirs, it can be quite frustrating. It is always useful to know what the end purpose of the research is. Best wishes Ian A McClumpha Researching Scottish Family History; please look at our website> www.imchad.freeola.com -----Original Message----- From: proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lily Kansas Sent: 29 September 2011 01:47 To: proresearchers@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRORESEARCHERS] How much should I charge for lookups at courthouses? Hi Leslie, Thank you for your reply. I have B.S. in Computer Science and a minor in English Literature. I am a freelance writer - not my day job. I write about local history, genealogy and humor. This, of course, involves a great deal of research, except for the humor which requires a great deal of life. Some of my articles have been published in local and regional newspapers and magazines. I have volunteered to research and write articles and chapters in books published by local museums, and historical and genealogical organizations. I am a regular speaker at fundraising events and tours for these same organizations. I have been researching my own and others' family histories and genealogies since I was a teenager - many, many, many moons ago. I have also conducted many audio and video oral histories since that time. I get my kicks trying to figure out whether or not I am related to Doc Holliday and how many times I have been removed. After working and traveling around the country and a good bit of the world, I have returned to my hometown. I am an eighth-generation native. I live in a place where most native families have been here so long that it is quite easy for us to trace our ancestors back to pre-revolutionary times. The disadvantage is that we don't know where we emigrated from. I finally broke through a "brick wall" after "barking up the wrong tree" for way too long. My big, painful, time-consuming mistake - I assumed that an award-winning, albeit amateur genealogist's work did not need to be verified. Well. you know what they say about assuming! To recover I had to learn a lot about period handwriting and surname spelling variations and derivations. I had to compare records using an Excel spreadsheet before finally arriving at a theory: that one ancestor from one branch emigrated from London via Barbados. I am in the process of obtaining and verifying records. This is my passion. I would like to become a fulltime professional genealogist eventually. I have worked too independently and too long, in amateurish fashion and scholarly isolation, all the while trying to manage a day job that I hate, a household, and my volunteer work. Here are some of the things, I understand, I need to do??? Enroll in a certificate program, become certified or accredited, subscribe to journals, attend conferences - all of which costs money which I don't have. Anyone need an assistant? So I thought I'd start out by doing lookups. If I could sit in a library or a register of deeds office, all day every day, I would be sublimely happy! To address your question about citations - as a writer I am constantly referring to the *Chicago Manual of Style*. I understand that citing sources must be done rigorously. I've searched CMOS - nothing. I did find *The BCG Genealogical Standards Manual* on Amazon. What stylebook would you recommend? Which is considered most up-to-date and authoritative? As for other repositories, I am located within a short distance of two state capitals, ergo two state libraries, two state archives, and many museums. I have easy access to three major universities with local and regional history and indigenous peoples study programs. Within approximately 250 miles there are two more state capitals and that many more academic, state, and non-profit collections. Again, I gratefully appreciate any advice. If you have read this far, you have more patience than a genealogist! Thank you. Lily ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:41:36 -0400 From: Lily Kansas <lilykansas@gmail.com> Subject: [PRORESEARCHERS] Thanks for your replies, feedback and tips! To: PRORESEARCHERS@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CAC_LqPdDYpXTiETM-A-+zVr_AXqCcktpV-KnztnwpvevqPvMYA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I so appreciate the information and insight you have provided! It's been a very long day, so I will pick up our conversations tomorrow. I just wanted to say, thank you for responding! Lily ------------------------------ To contact the PRORESEARCHERS list administrator, send an email to PRORESEARCHERS-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the PRORESEARCHERS mailing list, send an email to PRORESEARCHERS@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of PRORESEARCHERS Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2 ********************************************

I so appreciate the information and insight you have provided! It's been a very long day, so I will pick up our conversations tomorrow. I just wanted to say, thank you for responding! Lily

Hi Lily (OFF LIST) I am a professional in Scotland and have been for 11 years now. My advice is to lay out a set of charges which reflect the time that you use and include travelling time and travelling expenses. Remember to allow time for writing up reports and answering queries at home. Many people will try to take advantage of someone who is prepared to do lookups free or cheap. I know that I often end up doing freebies, but it has to be my decision when and where I do them. There is also the issue of 'who's research'. If you do a lookup for someone and charge them for it, that research belongs to them and they can do what they want with it. If you do something for yourself and later someone claims it to be theirs, it can be quite frustrating. It is always useful to know what the end purpose of the research is. Best wishes Ian A McClumpha Researching Scottish Family History; please look at our website> www.imchad.freeola.com -----Original Message----- From: proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lily Kansas Sent: 29 September 2011 01:47 To: proresearchers@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRORESEARCHERS] How much should I charge for lookups at courthouses? Hi Leslie, Thank you for your reply. I have B.S. in Computer Science and a minor in English Literature. I am a freelance writer - not my day job. I write about local history, genealogy and humor. This, of course, involves a great deal of research, except for the humor which requires a great deal of life. Some of my articles have been published in local and regional newspapers and magazines. I have volunteered to research and write articles and chapters in books published by local museums, and historical and genealogical organizations. I am a regular speaker at fundraising events and tours for these same organizations. I have been researching my own and others' family histories and genealogies since I was a teenager - many, many, many moons ago. I have also conducted many audio and video oral histories since that time. I get my kicks trying to figure out whether or not I am related to Doc Holliday and how many times I have been removed. After working and traveling around the country and a good bit of the world, I have returned to my hometown. I am an eighth-generation native. I live in a place where most native families have been here so long that it is quite easy for us to trace our ancestors back to pre-revolutionary times. The disadvantage is that we don't know where we emigrated from. I finally broke through a "brick wall" after "barking up the wrong tree" for way too long. My big, painful, time-consuming mistake - I assumed that an award-winning, albeit amateur genealogist's work did not need to be verified. Well. you know what they say about assuming! To recover I had to learn a lot about period handwriting and surname spelling variations and derivations. I had to compare records using an Excel spreadsheet before finally arriving at a theory: that one ancestor from one branch emigrated from London via Barbados. I am in the process of obtaining and verifying records. This is my passion. I would like to become a fulltime professional genealogist eventually. I have worked too independently and too long, in amateurish fashion and scholarly isolation, all the while trying to manage a day job that I hate, a household, and my volunteer work. Here are some of the things, I understand, I need to do??? Enroll in a certificate program, become certified or accredited, subscribe to journals, attend conferences - all of which costs money which I don't have. Anyone need an assistant? So I thought I'd start out by doing lookups. If I could sit in a library or a register of deeds office, all day every day, I would be sublimely happy! To address your question about citations - as a writer I am constantly referring to the *Chicago Manual of Style*. I understand that citing sources must be done rigorously. I've searched CMOS - nothing. I did find *The BCG Genealogical Standards Manual* on Amazon. What stylebook would you recommend? Which is considered most up-to-date and authoritative? As for other repositories, I am located within a short distance of two state capitals, ergo two state libraries, two state archives, and many museums. I have easy access to three major universities with local and regional history and indigenous peoples study programs. Within approximately 250 miles there are two more state capitals and that many more academic, state, and non-profit collections. Again, I gratefully appreciate any advice. If you have read this far, you have more patience than a genealogist! Thank you. Lily ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Leslie, Thank you for your reply. I have B.S. in Computer Science and a minor in English Literature. I am a freelance writer – not my day job. I write about local history, genealogy and humor. This, of course, involves a great deal of research, except for the humor which requires a great deal of life. Some of my articles have been published in local and regional newspapers and magazines. I have volunteered to research and write articles and chapters in books published by local museums, and historical and genealogical organizations. I am a regular speaker at fundraising events and tours for these same organizations. I have been researching my own and others' family histories and genealogies since I was a teenager – many, many, many moons ago. I have also conducted many audio and video oral histories since that time. I get my kicks trying to figure out whether or not I am related to Doc Holliday and how many times I have been removed. After working and traveling around the country and a good bit of the world, I have returned to my hometown. I am an eighth-generation native. I live in a place where most native families have been here so long that it is quite easy for us to trace our ancestors back to pre-revolutionary times. The disadvantage is that we don’t know where we emigrated from. I finally broke through a “brick wall” after “barking up the wrong tree” for way too long. My big, painful, time-consuming mistake – I assumed that an award-winning, albeit amateur genealogist's work did not need to be verified. Well… you know what they say about assuming! To recover I had to learn a lot about period handwriting and surname spelling variations and derivations. I had to compare records using an Excel spreadsheet before finally arriving at a theory: that one ancestor from one branch emigrated from London via Barbados. I am in the process of obtaining and verifying records. This is my passion. I would like to become a fulltime professional genealogist eventually. I have worked too independently and too long, in amateurish fashion and scholarly isolation, all the while trying to manage a day job that I hate, a household, and my volunteer work. Here are some of the things, I understand, I need to do??? Enroll in a certificate program, become certified or accredited, subscribe to journals, attend conferences – all of which costs money which I don’t have. Anyone need an assistant? So I thought I’d start out by doing lookups. If I could sit in a library or a register of deeds office, all day every day, I would be sublimely happy! To address your question about citations – as a writer I am constantly referring to the *Chicago Manual of Style*. I understand that citing sources must be done rigorously. I’ve searched CMOS – nothing. I did find *The BCG Genealogical Standards Manual* on Amazon. What stylebook would you recommend? Which is considered most up-to-date and authoritative? As for other repositories, I am located within a short distance of two state capitals, ergo two state libraries, two state archives, and many museums. I have easy access to three major universities with local and regional history and indigenous peoples study programs. Within approximately 250 miles there are two more state capitals and that many more academic, state, and non-profit collections. Again, I gratefully appreciate any advice. If you have read this far, you have more patience than a genealogist! Thank you. Lily

The current authority on genealogical citations is Evidence Explained by Elizabeth Shown Mills. This work and Professional Genealogy, edited by Ms. Mills are must haves for the genealogist thinking about taking clients! On 9/28/2011 7:47 PM, Lily Kansas wrote: > Hi Leslie, > > > > Thank you for your reply. I have B.S. in Computer Science and a minor in > English Literature. I am a freelance writer – not my day job. I write about > local history, genealogy and humor. This, of course, involves a great deal > > of research, except for the humor which requires a great deal of life. > > > > Some of my articles have been published in local and regional newspapers and > magazines. I have volunteered to research and write articles and chapters in > books published by local museums, and historical and genealogical > organizations. I am a regular speaker at fundraising events and tours for > these same organizations. > > > > I have been researching my own and others' family histories and genealogies > since I was a teenager – many, many, many moons ago. I have also conducted > many audio and video oral histories since that time. I get my kicks trying > > to figure out whether or not I am related to Doc Holliday and how many times > I have been removed. > > > After working and traveling around the country and a good bit of the world, > I have returned to my hometown. I am an eighth-generation native. I live in > a place where most native families have been here so long that it is quite > > easy for us to trace our ancestors back to pre-revolutionary times. The > disadvantage is that we don’t know where we emigrated from. I finally broke > through a “brick wall” after “barking up the wrong tree” for way too long. > > > > My big, painful, time-consuming mistake – I assumed that an award-winning, > albeit amateur genealogist's work did not need to be verified. Well… you > > know what they say about assuming! To recover I had to learn a lot about > period handwriting and surname spelling variations and derivations. I had to > compare records using an Excel spreadsheet before finally arriving at a > theory: that one ancestor from one branch emigrated from London via > Barbados. I am in the process of obtaining and verifying records. > > > This is my passion. I would like to become a fulltime professional > genealogist eventually. I have worked too independently and too long, in > amateurish fashion and scholarly isolation, all the while trying to manage a > day job that I hate, a household, and my volunteer work. Here are some of > the things, I understand, I need to do??? Enroll in a certificate program, > > become certified or accredited, subscribe to journals, attend conferences – > all of which costs money which I don’t have. Anyone need an assistant? > > > > So I thought I’d start out by doing lookups. If I could sit in a library or > a register of deeds office, all day every day, I would be sublimely happy! > > > > > To address your question about citations – as a writer I am constantly > referring to the *Chicago Manual of Style*. I understand that citing sources > must be done rigorously. I’ve searched CMOS – nothing. I did find *The BCG > Genealogical Standards Manual* on Amazon. What stylebook would you > recommend? Which is considered most up-to-date and authoritative? > > > > As for other repositories, I am located within a short distance of two state > capitals, ergo two state libraries, two state archives, and many museums. I > have easy access to three major universities with local and regional history > and indigenous peoples study programs. Within approximately 250 miles there > are two more state capitals and that many more academic, state, and > non-profit collections. > > > > Again, I gratefully appreciate any advice. If you have read this far, you > have more patience than a genealogist! Thank you. > > > > Lily > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1809 / Virus Database: 2085/4525 - Release Date: 09/28/11 > > -- Mary Clement Douglass Your Kansas research specialist www.historical-matters.com

To get more work, you tell us the names of these facilities so that we know where you are and can hire you when our client work takes us to that area! :) I'll respond to the rest of your email privately as I have some things to share! Leslie Brinkley Lawson 5180 SW 198th Ave., Aloha, OR 97007 503-649-6679 or 503-848-3614 fax Lawson Research Services, LLC; http://www.lawsonresearch.net Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/LawsonResearch Twitter: @llawson3967 Member: APG, Oregon Chapter; GSG; NGS On 9/28/2011 5:47 PM, Lily Kansas wrote: > As for other repositories, I am located within a short distance of two state > capitals, ergo two state libraries, two state archives, and many museums. I > have easy access to three major universities with local and regional history > and indigenous peoples study programs. Within approximately 250 miles there > are two more state capitals and that many more academic, state, and > non-profit collections.

Any advice appreciated!

How much experience with the records do you have? Do you know how to write a full citation regardless of the type of record you are pulling? (That's a big one for me.) How long have you been doing this? What other facilities do you have available to do research in? If you've not done this type of work before you might ask for a small dollar amount to help pay for gas and parking (if there is a fee), plus copy costs. Then ask for feedback from the person who has hired you. Did they get what they were looking for? Are there other records within your area they might be interested in knowing more about that you might access for them, library, historical society, genealogy society, state library, state archives, or ?? Is it your goal to do this more often than once and a while? Just my 2 cents worth of thoughts, and questions with no answers! Good luck! Leslie Brinkley Lawson 5180 SW 198th Ave., Aloha, OR 97007 503-649-6679 or 503-848-3614 fax Lawson Research Services, LLC; http://www.lawsonresearch.net Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/LawsonResearch Twitter: @llawson3967 Member: APG, Oregon Chapter; GSG; NGS On 9/28/2011 11:52 AM, Lily Kansas wrote: > Any advice appreciated! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Cindy, I think your questions are valid but not specific enough. I think professionals do a good job of teaching about citing sources and that most earnest researchers cite as well as they can. But they are sometimes lured into thinking that some of these old compilations are correct when it has been shown by many researchers to not be the case. I myself have a problem where a researcher published his history of his family in an old genealogical newsletter in 1970 and that article is quoted as a solid source and it is wrong. He used some of those old books published by the old societies, but he disregarded the fact that there were others in the area with the same last name. I don't know who he thought they were but he just ignored them. I have deeds, wills, and now DNA to prove that his research is wrong and yet people still use his family history as a proven source. I've written on the source notes on Ancestry and I have emailed people directly the clear proof we have and where to find it and yet people still link it to their trees. The people who are really serious about their family and getting it right, do something about it. Others just don't care. Some people think that anything on Ancestry is a fact or anything that the LDS did is too. While it is great that they are getting interested in their family history, I really don't want them taking my ancestor away even when they don't know that they are doing it. So it is possible that if they had to source every link in their tree to put it online it might make them more aware of finding the truth, but until the bad trees are fixed with the correct info and sources, it won't help. Ancestry is letting people use the trees that are up online already as sources so it goes round and round. How do we fix that? Right now, when you start your tree and get far enough back to link up with someone who has put up their history, the software programs and online programs pop up with all of these hints and new people don't realize how bad some of these online trees are. I tell people to not use those trees at all but only to look at them and never tie their tree to any of them. Find the source they are using and read it for themselves. In the above mentioned article, there was a man cited as living in an area because he was on another man's will but the researcher was using the abstract. When you find the full will, it only states that some land to be given to his daughter was cleared by a Mr. So & So. No time frame is given when that happened, nor does it use his first name so it could have been a completely different person. Those are the kinds of things I caution new researchers to be on the lookout for. But how do we stop this from continuing? As you say, education is the key but that only works if someone comes to a seminar before they begin and we all know that it doesn't happen that way. So should Ancestry require a new member to pass a citing test before they can start their tree? It wouldn't hurt I guess. Good luck with your paper, Amanda Welborn Dicken -----Original Message----- From: proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Cindy Leigh Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 7:21 PM To: PRORESEARCHERS@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRORESEARCHERS] Posting a Message >From cindy@rahman.com Hello! I am a grad student doing an online genealogy research degree from the University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland, and my thesis is on the practice of citing sources in the amateur genealogist population. There has been much concern among professionals about the integrity of family histories floating around the internet and the amount of misinformation being shared due to lack of proper documentation of sources. Your opinion/s on this subject would add tremendously to my research. A few short questions: 1. Obviously, education is the key. Do you think professionals are doing enough to help educate the general population about the importance of citing sources? 2. Do you think one solution would be to lobby the largest subscription services, such as Ancestry.com, to provide more up-front and visible prompts to add ANY kind of information as to where the information as obtained - in their public family trees? 3. Can you refer me to others who may have an opinion on this subject? Other thoughts or comments? Thank you, Cynthia Leigh ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes. Very interesting and I understand what you're saying. Thanks for taking the time. Cindy -----Original Message----- From: proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joyce Gaston Reece Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:54 PM To: proresearchers@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRORESEARCHERS] Posting a Message Cindy In some ways you are looking at the situation incorrectly. All professional researchers will cite their sources as much as possible its just what we must do BUT among amateur genealogists you have a lot of people with different ambitions, different goals, and differing amounts of dedication to what they are doing. I've been doing genealogical research for almost 45 years...way back when one had to physically do the research themselves...long before the internet. I've done internet research since 1994 so I've seen quit a few 'personalities' in those years. There are those who are definitely dedicated to researching their family trees by documenting their research...these are strictly 'by the book'. Then there is another group of researchers who aren't quite so strict in documenting their work. Sometimes this is because they just don't know what the classification of different resource are and other times because they choose to believe everything they read. Then there are those 'wannabee' researchers who locate someone's family tree online and say 'yea!' I'm done! I've run into two separate families who have members who insist on believing fallacies promoted by others and no amount of asking them for documentation on what they are saying will change their minds. One can talk to them until they are blue in the face and it does no good, changes nothing. In this case it would not do a professional any good to tell them they are wrong because they don't want to hear it. So, IMO, your question is too generalized. Ancestry, Footnote, Family Search and other online companies/organizations already offer the means to upload data. Joyce Gaston Reece Friends of the Archives Historical & Preservation Society, Monroe Co., TN., Secretary American Local History Network, Board of Directors, Vice President -------------------------------------------------- From: "Cindy Leigh" <cindy@rahman.com> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:20 PM To: <PRORESEARCHERS@rootsweb.com> Subject: [PRORESEARCHERS] Posting a Message >>From cindy@rahman.com > > > > Hello! > > > > I am a grad student doing an online genealogy research degree from the > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland, and my thesis is on the > practice of citing sources in the amateur genealogist population. There > has > been much concern among professionals about the integrity of family > histories floating around the internet and the amount of misinformation > being shared due to lack of proper documentation of sources. > > > > Your opinion/s on this subject would add tremendously to my research. A > few > short questions: > > > > 1. Obviously, education is the key. Do you think professionals are > doing enough to help educate the general population about the importance > of > citing sources? > > > > > > 2. Do you think one solution would be to lobby the largest subscription > services, such as Ancestry.com, to provide more up-front and visible > prompts > to add ANY kind of information as to where the information as obtained - > in > their public family trees? > > > > 3. Can you refer me to others who may have an opinion on this subject? > > > > > > Other thoughts or comments? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Cynthia Leigh > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Very interesting. Thank you for taking the time. Cynthia -----Original Message----- From: proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:proresearchers-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lauren Kinter Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 10:30 PM To: proresearchers@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRORESEARCHERS] Posting a Message I disagree. There isn't enough being done about bogus genealogies on the Internet these days. I've come across many with major problems and when asked for the sources, they refuse to tell where they got their information. yes- writing to the courthouses, churches, archives is still best. Ancestry is one of the worst offenders becasue their setup makes the amateur genealogist believe that they are as credible as the actual records( census, birth,etc.) .I don't believe that your question is too open-ended. It is a starting point for a much bigger study of the subject. Lauren On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Joyce Gaston Reece <bjreece@bellsouth.net>wrote: > Cindy > > In some ways you are looking at the situation incorrectly. All > professional > researchers will cite their sources as much as possible its just what we > must do BUT among amateur genealogists you have a lot of people with > different ambitions, different goals, and differing amounts of dedication > to > what they are doing. > > I've been doing genealogical research for almost 45 years...way back when > one had to physically do the research themselves...long before the > internet. > I've done internet research since 1994 so I've seen quit a few > 'personalities' in those years. There are those who are definitely > dedicated to researching their family trees by documenting their > research...these are strictly 'by the book'. Then there is another group > of > researchers who aren't quite so strict in documenting their work. > Sometimes > this is because they just don't know what the classification of different > resource are and other times because they choose to believe everything they > read. Then there are those 'wannabee' researchers who locate someone's > family tree online and say 'yea!' I'm done! > > I've run into two separate families who have members who insist on > believing > fallacies promoted by others and no amount of asking them for documentation > on what they are saying will change their minds. One can talk to them > until > they are blue in the face and it does no good, changes nothing. In this > case it would not do a professional any good to tell them they are wrong > because they don't want to hear it. > > So, IMO, your question is too generalized. > > Ancestry, Footnote, Family Search and other online companies/organizations > already offer the means to upload data. > > Joyce Gaston Reece > Friends of the Archives Historical & Preservation Society, Monroe Co., TN., > Secretary > American Local History Network, Board of Directors, Vice President > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Cindy Leigh" <cindy@rahman.com> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:20 PM > To: <PRORESEARCHERS@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [PRORESEARCHERS] Posting a Message > > >>From cindy@rahman.com > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > I am a grad student doing an online genealogy research degree from the > > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland, and my thesis is on the > > practice of citing sources in the amateur genealogist population. There > > has > > been much concern among professionals about the integrity of family > > histories floating around the internet and the amount of misinformation > > being shared due to lack of proper documentation of sources. > > > > > > > > Your opinion/s on this subject would add tremendously to my research. A > > few > > short questions: > > > > > > > > 1. Obviously, education is the key. Do you think professionals are > > doing enough to help educate the general population about the importance > > of > > citing sources? > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Do you think one solution would be to lobby the largest subscription > > services, such as Ancestry.com, to provide more up-front and visible > > prompts > > to add ANY kind of information as to where the information as obtained - > > in > > their public family trees? > > > > > > > > 3. Can you refer me to others who may have an opinion on this subject? > > > > > > > > > > > > Other thoughts or comments? > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > Cynthia Leigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Cindy In some ways you are looking at the situation incorrectly. All professional researchers will cite their sources as much as possible its just what we must do BUT among amateur genealogists you have a lot of people with different ambitions, different goals, and differing amounts of dedication to what they are doing. I've been doing genealogical research for almost 45 years...way back when one had to physically do the research themselves...long before the internet. I've done internet research since 1994 so I've seen quit a few 'personalities' in those years. There are those who are definitely dedicated to researching their family trees by documenting their research...these are strictly 'by the book'. Then there is another group of researchers who aren't quite so strict in documenting their work. Sometimes this is because they just don't know what the classification of different resource are and other times because they choose to believe everything they read. Then there are those 'wannabee' researchers who locate someone's family tree online and say 'yea!' I'm done! I've run into two separate families who have members who insist on believing fallacies promoted by others and no amount of asking them for documentation on what they are saying will change their minds. One can talk to them until they are blue in the face and it does no good, changes nothing. In this case it would not do a professional any good to tell them they are wrong because they don't want to hear it. So, IMO, your question is too generalized. Ancestry, Footnote, Family Search and other online companies/organizations already offer the means to upload data. Joyce Gaston Reece Friends of the Archives Historical & Preservation Society, Monroe Co., TN., Secretary American Local History Network, Board of Directors, Vice President -------------------------------------------------- From: "Cindy Leigh" <cindy@rahman.com> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:20 PM To: <PRORESEARCHERS@rootsweb.com> Subject: [PRORESEARCHERS] Posting a Message >>From cindy@rahman.com > > > > Hello! > > > > I am a grad student doing an online genealogy research degree from the > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland, and my thesis is on the > practice of citing sources in the amateur genealogist population. There > has > been much concern among professionals about the integrity of family > histories floating around the internet and the amount of misinformation > being shared due to lack of proper documentation of sources. > > > > Your opinion/s on this subject would add tremendously to my research. A > few > short questions: > > > > 1. Obviously, education is the key. Do you think professionals are > doing enough to help educate the general population about the importance > of > citing sources? > > > > > > 2. Do you think one solution would be to lobby the largest subscription > services, such as Ancestry.com, to provide more up-front and visible > prompts > to add ANY kind of information as to where the information as obtained - > in > their public family trees? > > > > 3. Can you refer me to others who may have an opinion on this subject? > > > > > > Other thoughts or comments? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Cynthia Leigh > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I disagree. There isn't enough being done about bogus genealogies on the Internet these days. I've come across many with major problems and when asked for the sources, they refuse to tell where they got their information. yes- writing to the courthouses, churches, archives is still best. Ancestry is one of the worst offenders becasue their setup makes the amateur genealogist believe that they are as credible as the actual records( census, birth,etc.) .I don't believe that your question is too open-ended. It is a starting point for a much bigger study of the subject. Lauren On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Joyce Gaston Reece <bjreece@bellsouth.net>wrote: > Cindy > > In some ways you are looking at the situation incorrectly. All > professional > researchers will cite their sources as much as possible its just what we > must do BUT among amateur genealogists you have a lot of people with > different ambitions, different goals, and differing amounts of dedication > to > what they are doing. > > I've been doing genealogical research for almost 45 years...way back when > one had to physically do the research themselves...long before the > internet. > I've done internet research since 1994 so I've seen quit a few > 'personalities' in those years. There are those who are definitely > dedicated to researching their family trees by documenting their > research...these are strictly 'by the book'. Then there is another group > of > researchers who aren't quite so strict in documenting their work. > Sometimes > this is because they just don't know what the classification of different > resource are and other times because they choose to believe everything they > read. Then there are those 'wannabee' researchers who locate someone's > family tree online and say 'yea!' I'm done! > > I've run into two separate families who have members who insist on > believing > fallacies promoted by others and no amount of asking them for documentation > on what they are saying will change their minds. One can talk to them > until > they are blue in the face and it does no good, changes nothing. In this > case it would not do a professional any good to tell them they are wrong > because they don't want to hear it. > > So, IMO, your question is too generalized. > > Ancestry, Footnote, Family Search and other online companies/organizations > already offer the means to upload data. > > Joyce Gaston Reece > Friends of the Archives Historical & Preservation Society, Monroe Co., TN., > Secretary > American Local History Network, Board of Directors, Vice President > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Cindy Leigh" <cindy@rahman.com> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:20 PM > To: <PRORESEARCHERS@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [PRORESEARCHERS] Posting a Message > > >>From cindy@rahman.com > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > I am a grad student doing an online genealogy research degree from the > > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland, and my thesis is on the > > practice of citing sources in the amateur genealogist population. There > > has > > been much concern among professionals about the integrity of family > > histories floating around the internet and the amount of misinformation > > being shared due to lack of proper documentation of sources. > > > > > > > > Your opinion/s on this subject would add tremendously to my research. A > > few > > short questions: > > > > > > > > 1. Obviously, education is the key. Do you think professionals are > > doing enough to help educate the general population about the importance > > of > > citing sources? > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Do you think one solution would be to lobby the largest subscription > > services, such as Ancestry.com, to provide more up-front and visible > > prompts > > to add ANY kind of information as to where the information as obtained - > > in > > their public family trees? > > > > > > > > 3. Can you refer me to others who may have an opinion on this subject? > > > > > > > > > > > > Other thoughts or comments? > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > Cynthia Leigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRORESEARCHERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

>From cindy@rahman.com Hello! I am a grad student doing an online genealogy research degree from the University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland, and my thesis is on the practice of citing sources in the amateur genealogist population. There has been much concern among professionals about the integrity of family histories floating around the internet and the amount of misinformation being shared due to lack of proper documentation of sources. Your opinion/s on this subject would add tremendously to my research. A few short questions: 1. Obviously, education is the key. Do you think professionals are doing enough to help educate the general population about the importance of citing sources? 2. Do you think one solution would be to lobby the largest subscription services, such as Ancestry.com, to provide more up-front and visible prompts to add ANY kind of information as to where the information as obtained - in their public family trees? 3. Can you refer me to others who may have an opinion on this subject? Other thoughts or comments? Thank you, Cynthia Leigh

I just subscribed to the list and this link doesn't work. http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/p/proresearchers.html Connie Barnum http://familyhistory1.homestead.com/

Please feel free to forward this ; OFT stops misleading claims by Dutch family tree publisher 128/05 20 July 2005 The OFT has stopped the misleading claims and practices of a Dutch genealogist who claimed to produce individualized family trees for UK consumers with unusual family names. In the latest instance of the OFT using its cross border powers (see <http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+releases/2005/128-05.htm#note1>note 1), it has obtained undertakings from Historique, trading as William Pince Publishers, and the company's sole director Wilhelmus Pince Van der Aa that they will not mislead UK consumers and will abide by distance selling laws. The OFT acted after receiving a number of complaints that the company had supplied blank charts and little specific information, after claiming it had completed a detailed study and family tree of the recipient's name. Consumers also complained of delayed delivery, failure to deliver at all, and that the company did not provide the required 'cooling off' period or cancellation information (see <http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+releases/2005/128-05.htm#note1>note 2). William Pince Publishers approached consumers with unusual family names. Unsolicited mailings to consumers gave the impression that the company had completed research specifically into the recipient's family history and that the compilations were rigorously researched from rare sources. The undertakings mean that the company and Mr Pince have agreed in future not to make any misleading claims that: * the consumer's name dates back several centuries when there is no evidence for this * the genealogical books are published individually to the customer's order and cannot be revoked or returned * the family tree poster is printed on specially crafted paper and allows the family line to be traced back for numerous generations, when it is blank and has to be filled in by the consumer * a new data source has been discovered containing valuable information about the family name * the company has carried out intensive genealogical research into an individual consumer's family name over the last few decades, where this is not the case. The company and Mr Pince have also agreed not to breach the UK Distance Selling Regulations which protect consumers' rights when buying goods or services over the internet, by phone or by mail order. If any of the undertakings are breached the OFT could seek a court injunction and may request a substantial fine as the penalty. Sir John Vickers, OFT Chairman, said: 'This is another example of the OFT using its cross border powers to protect UK consumers. The claims made by this company were false and misled people into thinking that a study had been conducted into their family background and history. What they received fell far short of this and on occasion the consumer received nothing at all.' NOTES 1. The OFT has previously taken cross border action in Europe against Belgian company D Duchesne SA, trading as TV Direct Distribution and Just 4 You in the UK. The OFT took the company to court In Belgium to stop it sending misleading unsolicited mailings to UK consumers after it refused to sign undertakings (see press release 63/04). The Belgian court ruled in the OFT's favour preventing D Duchesne SA from sending any further misleading mailings to consumers in the UK (see press release 208/04). The OFT is currently defending this decision in appeal proceedings. 2. The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, commonly referred to as the Distance Selling Regulations (DSRs) came into force on 31 October 2000 giving additional rights to consumers in the area of home shopping. Under the DSRs consumers have additional rights including rights to: clear information on the identity of the supplier, what they are buying; such as a description of the product that is being bought, the quantity, price and delivery details and a cancellation period which starts, in respect of goods, when the order is placed and runs until the expiry of seven working days commencing the day after either the date of receipt of goods or when the consumer received certain written information. The DSRs provide that consumers who receive unsolicited goods or services have no obligations to pay for them. http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+releases/2005/128-05.htm

Submit your site to Cyndislist http://www.cyndislist.com/faq/submit.htm Also, answer questions (for free) on rootsweb mail lists that deal with your regions and ethnic groups. You will become know to the community. Add your web address in your signature. Good luck! Ceil Michigan Polonia http://mipolonia.net Cecile Marie Wendt Jensen, CGRS (sm) ===================================================================== CGRS, Certified Genealogical Records Specialist ----- Original Message ----- From: <ProResearchers-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <ProResearchers-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: ProResearchers-D Digest V04 #1

Thank you very much for all, the advice you have all sent me. Jonathan Walker Experienced Hispanic and Mexican family history researcher: www.mexicanfhr.com or jonathan@mexicanfhr.com -----Original Message----- From: ceil_jensen [mailto:cjensen@mipolonia.net] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 5:45 PM To: ProResearchers-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: ProResearchers-D Digest V04 #1 Submit your site to Cyndislist http://www.cyndislist.com/faq/submit.htm Also, answer questions (for free) on rootsweb mail lists that deal with your regions and ethnic groups. You will become know to the community. Add your web address in your signature. Good luck! Ceil Michigan Polonia http://mipolonia.net Cecile Marie Wendt Jensen, CGRS (sm) ===================================================================== CGRS, Certified Genealogical Records Specialist ----- Original Message ----- From: <ProResearchers-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <ProResearchers-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: ProResearchers-D Digest V04 #1 ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Hi Jonathan, I recommend purchasing Professional Genealogy by Elizabeth Shown Mills as a starting point. Also, you can gain valuable experience by offering your genealogy services to family and friends. Cheers, -- Kenyatta D. Berry kenyatta.berry@comcast.net http://www.discovergenealogy.com -------------- Original message -------------- > Hello, > > > > I am fairly new to this list and just starting my own genealogy business. I > just wanted to ask the group, “If anyone could give me, some advice or > pointers, on how to generate genealogy business?” > > > > Thanks, > > Jonathan Walker > > > > Experienced Hispanic and Mexican family history researcher: > www.mexicanfhr.com > or> or jonathan@mexicanfhr.com > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >