You can't necessarily assume they were infants; they could have been children or adults who have just come to the Christian faith, or any age child. Infant Baptism is pretty much done by families who are already church menbers but anyone joining the Protestant church for the first time would need to be Baptised first... Only the adults and older children would also be recorded as church members when they were Baptised and took on thier own profession of faith, where smaller children and infants the parents make those promises on their behalf. Children who are baptised as infants or young children then at the age of ten or so go through classes similar to Confirmation classes in Episcopal and Lutheran denominations, to become full members when they assume the pledges their parents made for them at Baptism.. I was not trying to start a fire storm.. Catherine<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&amp; ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)</HTML>

The URL: http//:digital.library.pitt.edu/p/pittext/ is the home page for the full-text collection of books on historic Pittsburgh that can be viewed online. One is a two-volume set of the History of Allegheny County, published in 1889. Absolutely filled with great information - sections on religion, churches, etc. Many of the early pastors are named. There are lots of other books, too. Well indexed, searchable, etc. You may find a lead to the church records you need. Bettie

Sorry not necessarily what? I thought I made it clear that Presbyterians practiced Infant baptism > -----Original Message----- > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CackyCline@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:44 PM > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > Not necessarily, Edward. > > The records of Fishing Creek ( S.C.) Presbyterian Church have been > published and in them are where Presbyterian minister the Rev. John > Baird Davies > baptised his own children Amelia Hardy Davies and my 2 great grandmother, > her > sister, Louisa Susannah Davies, as infants very soon after each was born. > That would be in 1809 and 1810. ( and also his other children as each > came > along.). > > There was infant Baptism far earlier than that, but this was traditional > at > least by then. > > Catherine<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Need a job? Find employment help in > your area. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&amp; > ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)</HTML> > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

Sorry. I thought that you were trying to begin a discussion ion the Theology of baptism. I suspect that in the early 1800 Presbyterian infants were baptised. I also suspect that the age of Baptist children getting baptised would have been early teens, but I have absolutely no basis for that Edward > -----Original Message----- > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Davis, James R CIV OSD DMEA > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:54 PM > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > Thanks Edward, > A great answer, as always. > However I was just trying to narrow into the age of baptism for > Presbyterians expected for most people during various centuries. If > infant baptism then as an infant. If believer baptism then probably age > 6 to 15 or say age 10. If married then maybe age 20. I suspect the > original question was asked in an attempt to use the christening/baptism > date and the customs of the denomination to guess at a birth date. > Peace, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Edward Andrews > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:40 AM > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > By definition Presbyterians are paedobaptists. > > What your particular theological ideas on the topic of baptism are can > well be accommodated in some other site. Here we are interested the > specimen of Presbyterianism and the genealogy involved. > > The Westminster Confession (pretty well the basis of English Speaking > Presbyterianism and its derivatives says) > > CHAP. XXVIII. - Of Baptism. > I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus > Christ,(Matt. 28:19) not only for the solemn admission of the party > baptized into the visible church;(1 Cor. 12:13) but also, to be unto him > a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,(Rom. 4:11, Col. 2:11,12) of > his ingrafting into Christ,(Gal. 3:27, Rom. 6:5) of regeneration,(Tit. > 3:5) of remission of sins,(Mark 1:4) and of his giving up unto God, > through Jesus Christ, to walk in newness of life: (Rom. 6:3,4) which > sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in his church > until the end of the world.(Matt. > 28:19,20) > II. The outward element to be used in this sacrament is water, wherewith > the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, > and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the gospel, lawfully called > thereunto.(Matt. 3:11, John 1:33, Matt. 28:19,20) III. Dipping of the > person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly > administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person. (Heb. > 9:10,19,20,21,22, Acts 16:33, Mark 7:4) > IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto > Christ, (Mark 26:15,16, Acts 8:37,38) but also the infants of one, or > both, believing parents, are to be baptized.(Gen 17:7,9, Gal. 3:9,14, > Col. > 2:11,12, Acts 2:38,39, Rom. 4:11,12, 1 Cor. 7:14, Matt. 28:19, Mark > 10:13,14,15,16, Luke 18:15) V. Although it be a great sin to contemn or > neglect this ordinance, (Luke 7:30, Exod. 4:24,25,26) yet grace and > salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can > be regenerated, or saved, without it; (Rom. 4:11, Acts > 10:2,4,22,31,45,47) or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly > regenerated.(Acts 7:13,23) VI. > The efficacy of Baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is > administered;(John 3:5,8) yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this > ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, > and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as > that grace belongeth unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, > in his appointed time.(Gal. 3:27, Tit. 3:5, Eph. 5:26, Acts 2:38,41) > VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered unto any > person.(Tit. > 3:5) > > The Directory of Public Worship says > The child to be baptized after notice given to the minister the day > before, is to be presented by the father, or (in case of his necessary > absence) by some Christian friend in his place, professing his earnest > desire that the child may be baptized. > Before baptism, the minister is to use some words of instruction, > touching the institution, nature, use, and ends of this sacrament, > shewing, "That it is instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ: That it is a > seal of the covenant of grace, of our ingrafting into Christ, and of our > union with him, of remission of sins, regeneration, adoption, and life > eternal: That the water, in baptism, representeth and signifieth both > the blood of Christ, which taketh away all guilt of sin, original and > actual; and the sanctifying virtue of the Spirit of Christ against the > dominion of sin, and the corruption of our sinful nature: That > baptizing, or sprinkling and washing with water, signifieth the > cleansing from sin by the blood and for the merit of Christ, together > with the mortification of sin, and rising from sin to newness of life, > by virtue of the death and resurrection of Christ: That the promise is > made to believers and their seed; and that the seed and posterity of the > faithful, born within the church, have, by their birth, interest in the > covenant, and right to the seal of it, and to the outward privileges of > the church, under the gospel, no less than the children of Abraham in > the time of the Old Testament; the covenant of grace, for substance, > being the same; and the grace of God, and the consolation of believers, > more plentiful than before: That the Son of God admitted little children > into his presence, embracing and blessing them, saying, For of such is > the kingdom of God: That children, by baptism, are solemnly received > into the bosom of the visible church, distinguished from the world, and > them that are without, and united with believers; and that all who are > baptized in the name of Christ, do renounce, and by their baptism are > bound to fight against the devil, the world, and the flesh: That they > are Christians, and federally holy before baptism, and therefore are > they baptized: That the inward grace and virtue of baptism is not tied > to that very moment of time wherein it is administered; and that the > fruit and power thereof reacheth to the whole course of our life; and > that outward baptism is not so necessary, that, through the want > thereof, the infant is in danger of damnation, or the parents guilty, if > they do not contemn or neglect the ordinance of Christ, when and where > it may be had." > In these or the like instructions, the minister is to use his own > liberty and godly wisdom, as the ignorance or errors in the doctrine of > baptism, and the edification of the people, shall require. > He is also to admonish all that are present, "To look back to their > baptism; to repent of their sins against their covenant with God; to > stir up their faith; to improve and make right use of their baptism, and > of the covenant sealed thereby betwixt God and their souls." > He is to exhort the parent, > "To consider the great mercy of God to him and his child; to bring up > the child in the knowledge of the grounds of the Christian religion, > "and in the nurture and admonition of the Lord; and to let him know the > danger of God's wrath to himself and child, if he be negligent: > requiring his solemn promise for the performance of his duty." > This being done, prayer is also to be joined with the word of > institution, for sanctifying the water to this spiritual use; and the > minister is to pray to this or the like effect: > "That the Lord, who hath not left us as strangers without the covenant > of promise, but called us to the privileges of his ordinances, would > graciously vouchsafe to sanctify and bless his own ordinance of baptism > at this time: > That he would join the inward baptism of his Spirit with the outward > baptism of water; make this baptism to the infant a seal of adoption, > remission of sin, regeneration, and eternal life, and all other promises > of the covenant of grace: That the child may be planted into the > likeness of the death and resurrection of Christ; and that, the body of > sin being destroyed in him, he may serve God in newness of life all his > days." > Then the minister is to demand the name of the child; which being told > him, he is to say, (calling the child by his name,) I baptize thee in > the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. > As he pronounceth these words, he is to baptize the child with water: > which, for the manner of doing of it, is not only lawful but sufficient, > and most expedient to be, by pouring or sprinkling of the water on the > face of the child, without adding any other ceremony. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Davis, James R CIV OSD DMEA > > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:09 PM > > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > > > Hello All, > > Have Presbyterians always had the same sort of baptism? That is > we > > seem to baptise into the church as an infant as a preference or as > > part of a confirmation (joining) process for those who weren't > > baptised as infants. But did we ever, over the centuries, embrace the > > > concept of believer baptism as the prefered method? I prefer the > > later because it seems more scriptural to me, whereas infant baptism > > seems to be more about denominational organizational process. > > Anyone have any ideas on this. > > If the growing churches are more into believer baptism might > this > > cause some of us to rethink what the purpose of baptism is and maybe > > tend to go in this direction? > > James R. Davis, Sacramento, CA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Edward Andrews > > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:58 PM > > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > > > The unhelpful answer is any age. It would depend on where and when > > and who was about. > > Officially baptism in the reformed tradition (we don't christen, we > > baptise) was governed by the Directory for the Public Worship of God. > > Actually this 17th Century document was practically superseded by > > local custom and practice. However when we look at this part of the > > Directory we wee that there are a number of constraints. > > > > "BAPTISM, as it is not unnecessarily to be delayed, so it is not to be > > > administered in any case by any private person, but by a minister of > > Christ, called to be the steward of the mysteries of God. > > Nor is it to be administered in private places, or privately, but in > > the place of publick (sic) worship, and in the face of the > > congregation, where the people may most conveniently see and hear; and > > > not in the places where fonts, in the time of Popery, were unfitly and > > > superstitiously placed." > > > > These rules were very well in a country where there was a fair supply > > > of ministers with local Churches. Consider the situation in America, > > with a population scattered over a wide area. Given that only the > > Minister could baptise you had to wait until he was in the locality, > > or the community was gathered in worship (ISTR reading that baptism > > did happen at camp, meetings but I can't find the reference.) > > Certainly in Scotland by some time in the 19th Century baptism at home > > > was the norm in many communities. The result was that in America, as > > happened in Scotland it was not unusual for families to "save up their > > > baptisms" and have all the children "done" at once. You have to > > remember that it was not necessarily easy for Presbyterians to meet up > > > with a minister. It was because of the difficulties in getting > > preachers that there was the foundation of the Cumberland Presbyterian > > > Church and why that subsequently the frontier went Methodist - with a > > much simpler way of organising the live of the Christian Community, > > and then Baptist which was basically a form of independence. > > > > On your chronology while they might have had problems with a preacher > > > in Franklin, certainly they would not when they got to the city. > > > > Let's ask a few questions. Do you know that they were Presbyterian? > > Do you know what kind of minister married the parents? Simply because > > they were Scots you cannot assume that they were Presbyterian. In any > > case by 1800 there were several "Brands" of Presbyterianism in > > Scotland and it is not impossible that you family hung about until > > they could meet up with the same kind of Presbyterianism as they were > used to back home. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > > > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of acmbjc@aol.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:32 PM > > > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > > > > > Might anyone know what the age of christening was in the early > > 1800's?? > > > The location was Pittsburgh, Allegheny Co., PA, but unfortunately I > > > do?NOT known?what church this family attended.? I do know they lived > > > > in northern Allegheny Co., Ross Twp.; the first four children were > > > born in Franklin Co., PA, and the last three in Allegheny; dates of > > > birth were 1808-1812- 1815, and the family name was THOMSON (without > > > > the letter 'P').? They were Scottish, not Irish. > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > Marybeth C. > > > acmbjc@aol.com > > > _____________________________ > > > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > > > admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > > in > > > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > _____________________________ > > To contact the list admin send an email to: > > PRESBYTERIAN-admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PRESBYTERIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _____________________________ > > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > > admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: > PRESBYTERIAN-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRESBYTERIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

By definition Presbyterians are paedobaptists. What your particular theological ideas on the topic of baptism are can well be accommodated in some other site. Here we are interested the specimen of Presbyterianism and the genealogy involved. The Westminster Confession (pretty well the basis of English Speaking Presbyterianism and its derivatives says) CHAP. XXVIII. - Of Baptism. I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,(Matt. 28:19) not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible church;(1 Cor. 12:13) but also, to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,(Rom. 4:11, Col. 2:11,12) of his ingrafting into Christ,(Gal. 3:27, Rom. 6:5) of regeneration,(Tit. 3:5) of remission of sins,(Mark 1:4) and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in newness of life: (Rom. 6:3,4) which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in his church until the end of the world.(Matt. 28:19,20) II. The outward element to be used in this sacrament is water, wherewith the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the gospel, lawfully called thereunto.(Matt. 3:11, John 1:33, Matt. 28:19,20) III. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person. (Heb. 9:10,19,20,21,22, Acts 16:33, Mark 7:4) IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ, (Mark 26:15,16, Acts 8:37,38) but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.(Gen 17:7,9, Gal. 3:9,14, Col. 2:11,12, Acts 2:38,39, Rom. 4:11,12, 1 Cor. 7:14, Matt. 28:19, Mark 10:13,14,15,16, Luke 18:15) V. Although it be a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance, (Luke 7:30, Exod. 4:24,25,26) yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it; (Rom. 4:11, Acts 10:2,4,22,31,45,47) or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.(Acts 7:13,23) VI. The efficacy of Baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered;(John 3:5,8) yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongeth unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in his appointed time.(Gal. 3:27, Tit. 3:5, Eph. 5:26, Acts 2:38,41) VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.(Tit. 3:5) The Directory of Public Worship says The child to be baptized after notice given to the minister the day before, is to be presented by the father, or (in case of his necessary absence) by some Christian friend in his place, professing his earnest desire that the child may be baptized. Before baptism, the minister is to use some words of instruction, touching the institution, nature, use, and ends of this sacrament, shewing, "That it is instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ: That it is a seal of the covenant of grace, of our ingrafting into Christ, and of our union with him, of remission of sins, regeneration, adoption, and life eternal: That the water, in baptism, representeth and signifieth both the blood of Christ, which taketh away all guilt of sin, original and actual; and the sanctifying virtue of the Spirit of Christ against the dominion of sin, and the corruption of our sinful nature: That baptizing, or sprinkling and washing with water, signifieth the cleansing from sin by the blood and for the merit of Christ, together with the mortification of sin, and rising from sin to newness of life, by virtue of the death and resurrection of Christ: That the promise is made to believers and their seed; and that the seed and posterity of the faithful, born within the church, have, by their birth, interest in the covenant, and right to the seal of it, and to the outward privileges of the church, under the gospel, no less than the children of Abraham in the time of the Old Testament; the covenant of grace, for substance, being the same; and the grace of God, and the consolation of believers, more plentiful than before: That the Son of God admitted little children into his presence, embracing and blessing them, saying, For of such is the kingdom of God: That children, by baptism, are solemnly received into the bosom of the visible church, distinguished from the world, and them that are without, and united with believers; and that all who are baptized in the name of Christ, do renounce, and by their baptism are bound to fight against the devil, the world, and the flesh: That they are Christians, and federally holy before baptism, and therefore are they baptized: That the inward grace and virtue of baptism is not tied to that very moment of time wherein it is administered; and that the fruit and power thereof reacheth to the whole course of our life; and that outward baptism is not so necessary, that, through the want thereof, the infant is in danger of damnation, or the parents guilty, if they do not contemn or neglect the ordinance of Christ, when and where it may be had." In these or the like instructions, the minister is to use his own liberty and godly wisdom, as the ignorance or errors in the doctrine of baptism, and the edification of the people, shall require. He is also to admonish all that are present, "To look back to their baptism; to repent of their sins against their covenant with God; to stir up their faith; to improve and make right use of their baptism, and of the covenant sealed thereby betwixt God and their souls." He is to exhort the parent, "To consider the great mercy of God to him and his child; to bring up the child in the knowledge of the grounds of the Christian religion, "and in the nurture and admonition of the Lord; and to let him know the danger of God's wrath to himself and child, if he be negligent: requiring his solemn promise for the performance of his duty." This being done, prayer is also to be joined with the word of institution, for sanctifying the water to this spiritual use; and the minister is to pray to this or the like effect: "That the Lord, who hath not left us as strangers without the covenant of promise, but called us to the privileges of his ordinances, would graciously vouchsafe to sanctify and bless his own ordinance of baptism at this time: That he would join the inward baptism of his Spirit with the outward baptism of water; make this baptism to the infant a seal of adoption, remission of sin, regeneration, and eternal life, and all other promises of the covenant of grace: That the child may be planted into the likeness of the death and resurrection of Christ; and that, the body of sin being destroyed in him, he may serve God in newness of life all his days." Then the minister is to demand the name of the child; which being told him, he is to say, (calling the child by his name,) I baptize thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. As he pronounceth these words, he is to baptize the child with water: which, for the manner of doing of it, is not only lawful but sufficient, and most expedient to be, by pouring or sprinkling of the water on the face of the child, without adding any other ceremony. > -----Original Message----- > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Davis, James R CIV OSD DMEA > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:09 PM > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > Hello All, > Have Presbyterians always had the same sort of baptism? That is > we seem to baptise into the church as an infant as a preference or as > part of a confirmation (joining) process for those who weren't baptised > as infants. But did we ever, over the centuries, embrace the concept of > believer baptism as the prefered method? I prefer the later because it > seems more scriptural to me, whereas infant baptism seems to be more > about denominational organizational process. > Anyone have any ideas on this. > If the growing churches are more into believer baptism might > this cause some of us to rethink what the purpose of baptism is and > maybe tend to go in this direction? > James R. Davis, Sacramento, CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Edward Andrews > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:58 PM > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > The unhelpful answer is any age. It would depend on where and when and > who was about. > Officially baptism in the reformed tradition (we don't christen, we > baptise) was governed by the Directory for the Public Worship of God. > Actually this 17th Century document was practically superseded by local > custom and practice. However when we look at this part of the Directory > we wee that there are a number of constraints. > > "BAPTISM, as it is not unnecessarily to be delayed, so it is not to be > administered in any case by any private person, but by a minister of > Christ, called to be the steward of the mysteries of God. > Nor is it to be administered in private places, or privately, but in the > place of publick (sic) worship, and in the face of the congregation, > where the people may most conveniently see and hear; and not in the > places where fonts, in the time of Popery, were unfitly and > superstitiously placed." > > These rules were very well in a country where there was a fair supply > of ministers with local Churches. Consider the situation in America, > with a population scattered over a wide area. Given that only the > Minister could baptise you had to wait until he was in the locality, or > the community was gathered in worship (ISTR reading that baptism did > happen at camp, meetings but I can't find the reference.) Certainly in > Scotland by some time in the 19th Century baptism at home was the norm > in many communities. The result was that in America, as happened in > Scotland it was not unusual for families to "save up their baptisms" and > have all the children "done" at once. You have to remember that it was > not necessarily easy for Presbyterians to meet up with a minister. It > was because of the difficulties in getting preachers that there was the > foundation of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and why that > subsequently the frontier went Methodist - with a much simpler way of > organising the live of the Christian Community, and then Baptist which > was basically a form of independence. > > On your chronology while they might have had problems with a preacher > in Franklin, certainly they would not when they got to the city. > > Let's ask a few questions. Do you know that they were Presbyterian? Do > you know what kind of minister married the parents? Simply because they > were Scots you cannot assume that they were Presbyterian. In any case by > 1800 there were several "Brands" of Presbyterianism in Scotland and it > is not impossible that you family hung about until they could meet up > with the same kind of Presbyterianism as they were used to back home. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of acmbjc@aol.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:32 PM > > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > > > Might anyone know what the age of christening was in the early > 1800's?? > > The location was Pittsburgh, Allegheny Co., PA, but unfortunately I > > do?NOT known?what church this family attended.? I do know they lived > > in northern Allegheny Co., Ross Twp.; the first four children were > > born in Franklin Co., PA, and the last three in Allegheny; dates of > > birth were 1808-1812- 1815, and the family name was THOMSON (without > > the letter 'P').? They were Scottish, not Irish. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Marybeth C. > > acmbjc@aol.com > > _____________________________ > > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > > admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: > PRESBYTERIAN-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRESBYTERIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

Not necessarily, Edward. The records of Fishing Creek ( S.C.) Presbyterian Church have been published and in them are where Presbyterian minister the Rev. John Baird Davies baptised his own children Amelia Hardy Davies and my 2 great grandmother, her sister, Louisa Susannah Davies, as infants very soon after each was born. That would be in 1809 and 1810. ( and also his other children as each came along.). There was infant Baptism far earlier than that, but this was traditional at least by then. Catherine<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&amp; ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)</HTML>

Hello, I would like to ask you a theological question about the Reformed faith? If this should be off list please email me at: suepr1deaux@swva.netnospam (just remove the no spam please) Thank you, Sue Prideaux

The Presbyterian Church Baptises children as soon after birth as possible, but that depends on their health, Mama's recovery, and a lot of things, as well as in the past when the minsiter is in the area, or the family can travel to a church with a minister present, if they didn't live not where a full-time minister is in residence. In early years , many were " circuit-riders" and served several congregations, coming to each one on a regular schedule, but that also depended a lot of the weather and accessibility. No one is ever re-Baptised in the Presbyterian denomination. If someone has been Baptised in any other denomination, it still serves to make them Baptised in the eys of this denomination (and most other Protestant ones). When a young person is of the age to take on his/her own responsibility for the pledges made by his/her parents at his Baptism, he "joins the church" and becomes a full voting member. Of course when parents were not affiliated with a church and then join one, if they have not previously been Baptised, they and their children would be Baptised at whatever age they happened to be at the time...so a Baptism date can not be used to establish age or birthdate, (except, of course, that they had to be born before then). Also note Presbyterians do not have Godparents. The whole congregation pledges to support the parents in bringing up the child in the faith and in the church. Catherine Fryer Cline<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&amp; ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)</HTML>

Thanks Edward, A great answer, as always. However I was just trying to narrow into the age of baptism for Presbyterians expected for most people during various centuries. If infant baptism then as an infant. If believer baptism then probably age 6 to 15 or say age 10. If married then maybe age 20. I suspect the original question was asked in an attempt to use the christening/baptism date and the customs of the denomination to guess at a birth date. Peace, Jim -----Original Message----- From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Edward Andrews Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:40 AM To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question By definition Presbyterians are paedobaptists. What your particular theological ideas on the topic of baptism are can well be accommodated in some other site. Here we are interested the specimen of Presbyterianism and the genealogy involved. The Westminster Confession (pretty well the basis of English Speaking Presbyterianism and its derivatives says) CHAP. XXVIII. - Of Baptism. I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,(Matt. 28:19) not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible church;(1 Cor. 12:13) but also, to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,(Rom. 4:11, Col. 2:11,12) of his ingrafting into Christ,(Gal. 3:27, Rom. 6:5) of regeneration,(Tit. 3:5) of remission of sins,(Mark 1:4) and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in newness of life: (Rom. 6:3,4) which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in his church until the end of the world.(Matt. 28:19,20) II. The outward element to be used in this sacrament is water, wherewith the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the gospel, lawfully called thereunto.(Matt. 3:11, John 1:33, Matt. 28:19,20) III. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person. (Heb. 9:10,19,20,21,22, Acts 16:33, Mark 7:4) IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ, (Mark 26:15,16, Acts 8:37,38) but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.(Gen 17:7,9, Gal. 3:9,14, Col. 2:11,12, Acts 2:38,39, Rom. 4:11,12, 1 Cor. 7:14, Matt. 28:19, Mark 10:13,14,15,16, Luke 18:15) V. Although it be a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance, (Luke 7:30, Exod. 4:24,25,26) yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it; (Rom. 4:11, Acts 10:2,4,22,31,45,47) or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.(Acts 7:13,23) VI. The efficacy of Baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered;(John 3:5,8) yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongeth unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in his appointed time.(Gal. 3:27, Tit. 3:5, Eph. 5:26, Acts 2:38,41) VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.(Tit. 3:5) The Directory of Public Worship says The child to be baptized after notice given to the minister the day before, is to be presented by the father, or (in case of his necessary absence) by some Christian friend in his place, professing his earnest desire that the child may be baptized. Before baptism, the minister is to use some words of instruction, touching the institution, nature, use, and ends of this sacrament, shewing, "That it is instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ: That it is a seal of the covenant of grace, of our ingrafting into Christ, and of our union with him, of remission of sins, regeneration, adoption, and life eternal: That the water, in baptism, representeth and signifieth both the blood of Christ, which taketh away all guilt of sin, original and actual; and the sanctifying virtue of the Spirit of Christ against the dominion of sin, and the corruption of our sinful nature: That baptizing, or sprinkling and washing with water, signifieth the cleansing from sin by the blood and for the merit of Christ, together with the mortification of sin, and rising from sin to newness of life, by virtue of the death and resurrection of Christ: That the promise is made to believers and their seed; and that the seed and posterity of the faithful, born within the church, have, by their birth, interest in the covenant, and right to the seal of it, and to the outward privileges of the church, under the gospel, no less than the children of Abraham in the time of the Old Testament; the covenant of grace, for substance, being the same; and the grace of God, and the consolation of believers, more plentiful than before: That the Son of God admitted little children into his presence, embracing and blessing them, saying, For of such is the kingdom of God: That children, by baptism, are solemnly received into the bosom of the visible church, distinguished from the world, and them that are without, and united with believers; and that all who are baptized in the name of Christ, do renounce, and by their baptism are bound to fight against the devil, the world, and the flesh: That they are Christians, and federally holy before baptism, and therefore are they baptized: That the inward grace and virtue of baptism is not tied to that very moment of time wherein it is administered; and that the fruit and power thereof reacheth to the whole course of our life; and that outward baptism is not so necessary, that, through the want thereof, the infant is in danger of damnation, or the parents guilty, if they do not contemn or neglect the ordinance of Christ, when and where it may be had." In these or the like instructions, the minister is to use his own liberty and godly wisdom, as the ignorance or errors in the doctrine of baptism, and the edification of the people, shall require. He is also to admonish all that are present, "To look back to their baptism; to repent of their sins against their covenant with God; to stir up their faith; to improve and make right use of their baptism, and of the covenant sealed thereby betwixt God and their souls." He is to exhort the parent, "To consider the great mercy of God to him and his child; to bring up the child in the knowledge of the grounds of the Christian religion, "and in the nurture and admonition of the Lord; and to let him know the danger of God's wrath to himself and child, if he be negligent: requiring his solemn promise for the performance of his duty." This being done, prayer is also to be joined with the word of institution, for sanctifying the water to this spiritual use; and the minister is to pray to this or the like effect: "That the Lord, who hath not left us as strangers without the covenant of promise, but called us to the privileges of his ordinances, would graciously vouchsafe to sanctify and bless his own ordinance of baptism at this time: That he would join the inward baptism of his Spirit with the outward baptism of water; make this baptism to the infant a seal of adoption, remission of sin, regeneration, and eternal life, and all other promises of the covenant of grace: That the child may be planted into the likeness of the death and resurrection of Christ; and that, the body of sin being destroyed in him, he may serve God in newness of life all his days." Then the minister is to demand the name of the child; which being told him, he is to say, (calling the child by his name,) I baptize thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. As he pronounceth these words, he is to baptize the child with water: which, for the manner of doing of it, is not only lawful but sufficient, and most expedient to be, by pouring or sprinkling of the water on the face of the child, without adding any other ceremony. > -----Original Message----- > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Davis, James R CIV OSD DMEA > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:09 PM > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > Hello All, > Have Presbyterians always had the same sort of baptism? That is we > seem to baptise into the church as an infant as a preference or as > part of a confirmation (joining) process for those who weren't > baptised as infants. But did we ever, over the centuries, embrace the > concept of believer baptism as the prefered method? I prefer the > later because it seems more scriptural to me, whereas infant baptism > seems to be more about denominational organizational process. > Anyone have any ideas on this. > If the growing churches are more into believer baptism might this > cause some of us to rethink what the purpose of baptism is and maybe > tend to go in this direction? > James R. Davis, Sacramento, CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Edward Andrews > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:58 PM > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > The unhelpful answer is any age. It would depend on where and when > and who was about. > Officially baptism in the reformed tradition (we don't christen, we > baptise) was governed by the Directory for the Public Worship of God. > Actually this 17th Century document was practically superseded by > local custom and practice. However when we look at this part of the > Directory we wee that there are a number of constraints. > > "BAPTISM, as it is not unnecessarily to be delayed, so it is not to be > administered in any case by any private person, but by a minister of > Christ, called to be the steward of the mysteries of God. > Nor is it to be administered in private places, or privately, but in > the place of publick (sic) worship, and in the face of the > congregation, where the people may most conveniently see and hear; and > not in the places where fonts, in the time of Popery, were unfitly and > superstitiously placed." > > These rules were very well in a country where there was a fair supply > of ministers with local Churches. Consider the situation in America, > with a population scattered over a wide area. Given that only the > Minister could baptise you had to wait until he was in the locality, > or the community was gathered in worship (ISTR reading that baptism > did happen at camp, meetings but I can't find the reference.) > Certainly in Scotland by some time in the 19th Century baptism at home > was the norm in many communities. The result was that in America, as > happened in Scotland it was not unusual for families to "save up their > baptisms" and have all the children "done" at once. You have to > remember that it was not necessarily easy for Presbyterians to meet up > with a minister. It was because of the difficulties in getting > preachers that there was the foundation of the Cumberland Presbyterian > Church and why that subsequently the frontier went Methodist - with a > much simpler way of organising the live of the Christian Community, > and then Baptist which was basically a form of independence. > > On your chronology while they might have had problems with a preacher > in Franklin, certainly they would not when they got to the city. > > Let's ask a few questions. Do you know that they were Presbyterian? > Do you know what kind of minister married the parents? Simply because > they were Scots you cannot assume that they were Presbyterian. In any > case by 1800 there were several "Brands" of Presbyterianism in > Scotland and it is not impossible that you family hung about until > they could meet up with the same kind of Presbyterianism as they were used to back home. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of acmbjc@aol.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:32 PM > > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > > > Might anyone know what the age of christening was in the early > 1800's?? > > The location was Pittsburgh, Allegheny Co., PA, but unfortunately I > > do?NOT known?what church this family attended.? I do know they lived > > in northern Allegheny Co., Ross Twp.; the first four children were > > born in Franklin Co., PA, and the last three in Allegheny; dates of > > birth were 1808-1812- 1815, and the family name was THOMSON (without > > the letter 'P').? They were Scottish, not Irish. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Marybeth C. > > acmbjc@aol.com > > _____________________________ > > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > > admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: > PRESBYTERIAN-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRESBYTERIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message _____________________________ To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello All, Have Presbyterians always had the same sort of baptism? That is we seem to baptise into the church as an infant as a preference or as part of a confirmation (joining) process for those who weren't baptised as infants. But did we ever, over the centuries, embrace the concept of believer baptism as the prefered method? I prefer the later because it seems more scriptural to me, whereas infant baptism seems to be more about denominational organizational process. Anyone have any ideas on this. If the growing churches are more into believer baptism might this cause some of us to rethink what the purpose of baptism is and maybe tend to go in this direction? James R. Davis, Sacramento, CA -----Original Message----- From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Edward Andrews Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:58 PM To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question The unhelpful answer is any age. It would depend on where and when and who was about. Officially baptism in the reformed tradition (we don't christen, we baptise) was governed by the Directory for the Public Worship of God. Actually this 17th Century document was practically superseded by local custom and practice. However when we look at this part of the Directory we wee that there are a number of constraints. "BAPTISM, as it is not unnecessarily to be delayed, so it is not to be administered in any case by any private person, but by a minister of Christ, called to be the steward of the mysteries of God. Nor is it to be administered in private places, or privately, but in the place of publick (sic) worship, and in the face of the congregation, where the people may most conveniently see and hear; and not in the places where fonts, in the time of Popery, were unfitly and superstitiously placed." These rules were very well in a country where there was a fair supply of ministers with local Churches. Consider the situation in America, with a population scattered over a wide area. Given that only the Minister could baptise you had to wait until he was in the locality, or the community was gathered in worship (ISTR reading that baptism did happen at camp, meetings but I can't find the reference.) Certainly in Scotland by some time in the 19th Century baptism at home was the norm in many communities. The result was that in America, as happened in Scotland it was not unusual for families to "save up their baptisms" and have all the children "done" at once. You have to remember that it was not necessarily easy for Presbyterians to meet up with a minister. It was because of the difficulties in getting preachers that there was the foundation of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and why that subsequently the frontier went Methodist - with a much simpler way of organising the live of the Christian Community, and then Baptist which was basically a form of independence. On your chronology while they might have had problems with a preacher in Franklin, certainly they would not when they got to the city. Let's ask a few questions. Do you know that they were Presbyterian? Do you know what kind of minister married the parents? Simply because they were Scots you cannot assume that they were Presbyterian. In any case by 1800 there were several "Brands" of Presbyterianism in Scotland and it is not impossible that you family hung about until they could meet up with the same kind of Presbyterianism as they were used to back home. > -----Original Message----- > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of acmbjc@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:32 PM > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > Might anyone know what the age of christening was in the early 1800's?? > The location was Pittsburgh, Allegheny Co., PA, but unfortunately I > do?NOT known?what church this family attended.? I do know they lived > in northern Allegheny Co., Ross Twp.; the first four children were > born in Franklin Co., PA, and the last three in Allegheny; dates of > birth were 1808-1812- 1815, and the family name was THOMSON (without > the letter 'P').? They were Scottish, not Irish. > > > Thank you. > > > Marybeth C. > acmbjc@aol.com > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message _____________________________ To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The unhelpful answer is any age. It would depend on where and when and who was about. Officially baptism in the reformed tradition (we don't christen, we baptise) was governed by the Directory for the Public Worship of God. Actually this 17th Century document was practically superseded by local custom and practice. However when we look at this part of the Directory we wee that there are a number of constraints. "BAPTISM, as it is not unnecessarily to be delayed, so it is not to be administered in any case by any private person, but by a minister of Christ, called to be the steward of the mysteries of God. Nor is it to be administered in private places, or privately, but in the place of publick (sic) worship, and in the face of the congregation, where the people may most conveniently see and hear; and not in the places where fonts, in the time of Popery, were unfitly and superstitiously placed." These rules were very well in a country where there was a fair supply of ministers with local Churches. Consider the situation in America, with a population scattered over a wide area. Given that only the Minister could baptise you had to wait until he was in the locality, or the community was gathered in worship (ISTR reading that baptism did happen at camp, meetings but I can't find the reference.) Certainly in Scotland by some time in the 19th Century baptism at home was the norm in many communities. The result was that in America, as happened in Scotland it was not unusual for families to "save up their baptisms" and have all the children "done" at once. You have to remember that it was not necessarily easy for Presbyterians to meet up with a minister. It was because of the difficulties in getting preachers that there was the foundation of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and why that subsequently the frontier went Methodist - with a much simpler way of organising the live of the Christian Community, and then Baptist which was basically a form of independence. On your chronology while they might have had problems with a preacher in Franklin, certainly they would not when they got to the city. Let's ask a few questions. Do you know that they were Presbyterian? Do you know what kind of minister married the parents? Simply because they were Scots you cannot assume that they were Presbyterian. In any case by 1800 there were several "Brands" of Presbyterianism in Scotland and it is not impossible that you family hung about until they could meet up with the same kind of Presbyterianism as they were used to back home. > -----Original Message----- > From: presbyterian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:presbyterian- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of acmbjc@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:32 PM > To: presbyterian@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PRESBYTERIAN] age of christening question > > Might anyone know what the age of christening was in the early 1800's?? > The location was Pittsburgh, Allegheny Co., PA, but unfortunately I do?NOT > known?what church this family attended.? I do know they lived in northern > Allegheny Co., Ross Twp.; the first four children were born in Franklin > Co., PA, and the last three in Allegheny; dates of birth were 1808-1812- > 1815, and the family name was THOMSON (without the letter 'P').? They were > Scottish, not Irish. > > > Thank you. > > > Marybeth C. > acmbjc@aol.com > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: PRESBYTERIAN- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRESBYTERIAN- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

Might anyone know what the age of christening was in the early 1800's?? The location was Pittsburgh, Allegheny Co., PA, but unfortunately I do?NOT known?what church this family attended.? I do know they lived in northern Allegheny Co., Ross Twp.; the first four children were born in Franklin Co., PA, and the last three in Allegheny; dates of birth were 1808-1812-1815, and the family name was THOMSON (without the letter 'P').? They were Scottish, not Irish. Thank you. Marybeth C. acmbjc@aol.com

THE DAYS of MAKEMIE OR, THE VINE PLANTED. A.D. 1680-1708 WITH AN APPENDIX. BY THE Rev. L. P. BOWEN, D. D. 1885 Frances Makemie was one of the first Presbyterian ministers in the Maryland/ Virginia area. This is the history of his ministry as it was affected by the Church of England, Presbyterian Church and the Quaker Church in the early days of the colonies. Bowen tells what is happening in England, Ireland and the Colonies with respect to the C. of E. and how those things affect the Presbyterians and Quakers. Rev. Makemie jailed and put on trial for not preaching the doctrine of the Church of England. Also, in case anyone is interested in learning the dialect of the Nanticokes Indians, this will give you a start. This book is 568 pages with a short index. Here is the information on the book. If your local library does not have it and you cannot borrow it from the loaning library, you might want to check into this website. dmkheritage.com they have it on CD. INDEX: Ackworth, Adams, Addison, Alexander, Alexanders, Alleine, Allen, Almoner, Alsop, Anderson, Andersons, Andrews, Andros, Ash, Askew, Aydelotts, Backus, Bacon, Baily, Balch, Ballard, Banes, Barnabe, Barns, Barons, Barret, Barrets, Barrett, Bartholomew, Bartow, Baxter, Baynex, Baynums, Beall, Beau, Beauchamp, Beauchamps, Bekely, Benston, Bently, Berkeley, Berkley, Betts, Beverly, Bishop, Blackiston, Bladen, Blair, Blakiston, Boggs, Boggses, Bolton, Bonnewell, Boom, Boston, Bostons, Bowen, Bowens, Bowman, Bownas, Boyd, Bozman, Bradford, Bragg, Brandhurst, Bray, Brays, Brechin, Breekin, Brittinghams, Brown, Browne, Browns, Brugh, Bunyan, Burnet, Burt, Burton, Burwell, Butt, Buzzard, Cabot, Calvert, Cameron, Campbell, Camplin, Cardale, Cardwell, Carrell, Cartwright, Chalkley, Chambers, Chariton, Cheseldine, Cheseldyn, Chichely, Cillock, Clarendon, Clarke, Clarkes, Clayborne, Clayton, Clouds, Cohanzy, Coke, Colbourn, Colbourns, Colburn, Coldin, Collier, Collins, Colman, Coman, Congreve, Coode, Coodes, Cook, Copley, Corbin, Corbins, Cornbury, Cornelius, Cornish, Cornwallis, Corry, Cottman, Cotton, Coverdale, Covington, Covingtons, Cowman, Cox, Craighead, Crane, Cranmer, Crier, Cromline, Cromwell, Cropper, Crow, Culpeper, Curremuccos, Custis, Custises, Dashiel, Dashiell, Dashiels, Davies, Davis, Day, De Vries, Defoe, Dennis, Dennises, Dent, Dentons, Dents, Denwood, Dickinson, Dickinsons, Dickson, Divine, Dixon, Dixwell, Dorman, Dorsey, Doughty, Draper, Drummond, Dryden, Drydens, Du Moulin, Dubois, Dyer, Echo, Edgar, Edmundson, Edwards, Elgate, Elzey, Elzeys, English, Erskines, Evelyn, Evernden, Everndons, Fasset, Fassett, Fassetts, Fausett, Fendal, Fenton, Fentons, Finney, Fitz-Walter, Flavel, Fleet, Flemingses, Fletcher, Fontaines, Fookes, Fookses, Foord, Foote, Foreman, Fowace, Fowkes, Fox, Franklin, Frankling, Franklins, Freeman, Galbraith, Galbraiths, Gardener, Gay, Giffing, Gillett, Glass, Glover, Goddin, Godwin, Godwyn, Goffe, Goodall, Goode, Goodhue, Gookins, Gordon, Gray, Green, Guthrie, Hackston, Hale, Haliday, Hall, Hallet, Hamilton, Hamiltons, Hammond, Hampton, Handys, Harris, Harrison, Hart, Harvey, Haskins, Hast, Hawks, Heart, Heathcote, Heckewelder, Hempstead, Hempton, Henderson, Hendersons, Henry, Herman, Hewetson, Hewett, Hicks, Higby, Hill, Hodge, Hogue, Holden, Holland, Hooper, Hope, Hopes, Hopkins, Hopkinses, Horsey, Horseys, Horswell, Howard, Howards, Howe, Hubbard, Hudson, Hudsons, Humphreys, Hutchinson, Innis, Ives, Ivy, Jackson, Jacob, James, Jamison, Jarman, Jefferson, Jeffreys, Jenifer, Jenkins, Jenkinses, Johnson, Johnstone, Jollies, Jones, Joneses, Jowles, Keith, Kemp, Kemps, Kennedy, Ker, Key, Keyes, Kidd, Killen, King, King Daniel, King Wynicaco, Kings, Knox, Knusonum, Langford, Laronex, Latimer, Lauron, Law, Lawson, Layfield, Layfields, Leatherberry, Lee, Lenapes, Leonard, Lewis, Lingan, Liston, Littleton, Littletons, Livingston, Locke, Lowe, Loyd, Luff, Lyle, Mackay, Mackemy, Mackennan, Mackensie, Mackie, Macnish, Maddux, Madduxes, Magee, Makemie, Makemius, Manlove, Manton, Marshall, Martyr, Matchacoopah, Mather, Mathers, Matix, Maynard, McClelland, McDonald, McKemie, Mckemy, McMahon, McMaster, MCNISH, McSherry, Meade, Melyen, Middleton, Middletons, Milbourn, Miller, Milligan, Milton, Milward, Minifie, Miskell, Mompesson, Moncrieff, Monro, Moore, Moreau, Morgan, Morris, Morumsco, Morurnsco James, Mossom, Mulberry, Murray, Murry, Nearn, Neill, Newbold, Newton, Nichol, Nicholson, Noble, Nock, Norwood, Nott, Noyes, Oates, Palmer, Parker, Parkers, Parnell, Parris, Peden, Peel, Penn, Perkins, Perrin, Perry, Peterson, Phesey, Philpot, Pickman, Piper, Pipers, Pitt, Pitts, Pocohontas, Pool, Pope, Pory, Poulson, Poulsons, Powell, Power, Powhatan, Price, Prior, Prudden, Pullen, Purnell, Ramsey, Randolph, Ratcliff, Ratcliffe, Raymond, Reckliffe, Regniere, Reid, Renny, Renshaw, Renwick, Revell, Richards, Richardson, Richardsons, Richebourg, Riddel, Ridley, Rintaughton, Robbeson, Roberts, Robin, Robins, Robinson, Robinsons, Rodgers, Roe, Rogers, Round, Rounds, Rowat, Rowatt, Rule, Sandford, Sanfords, Sangster, Sangsters, Scanderet, Scarborough, Schofield, Schofields, Scholfield, Scott, Scotts, Selby, Semple, Seward, Seymour, Sharp, Shepherd, Sidney, Simcock, Sly, Smith, Sorrel, Spence, Spences, Spicer, Sprague, Squifortum, Stanfield, Stanton, Starret, Stephens, Stevens, Stevenson, Stevensons, Steward, Stewart, Stewarts, Stiles, Stockdale, Stockly, Stoddard, Stone, Story, Strawbridge, Stuart, Swift, Tailzior, Talbot, Tanguawton, Taylor, Taylors, Teackle, Temple, Tennent, Theobalds, Thomas, Thomson, Thorne, Tillotson, Titus, Toaf, Tomehawk, Trail, Trotter, Trueman, Truitt, Tull, Tully, Turlinge, Turvale, Upshur, Urquhart, Van Lear, Vanhorn, Vaughn, Venable, Venables, Vesey, Vigerous, Wale, Wales, Wali, Walker, Wallace, Waller, Wallis, Wallop, Walton, Ward, Wardrope, Warren, Warring, Washington, Wasposson, Watson, Watts, Weatherby, Webster, Weegnonah, Welburne, Welsh, Weningominsk, Weocomoconus, Wesley, West, Whaley, Whalley, Whitaker, White, Whitehead, Whites, Whitt, Whittington, Whittingtons, Whitty, Willard, Williams, Wilson, Wilsons, Winder, Winders, Windsor, Winikako, Winsmore, Winston, Winstone, Wise, Wises, Wishart, Witherow, Woodbridge, Wooden, Woodgate, Wormleys, Wren, Wright, Wyatt, Yard, Yeo, Yeos, Young,

My grandfather William Lewis, Jr was married to Mary John daughter of Thomas John who lived in Loudoun County, VA. William's father is William Lewis that married Jane Griffith 1740 in Philadelphia County, Pa. The Griffiiths that were listed in the tithables in the 1760's in Loudoun Co., Va are : John, William, Richard, and David Griffith. Possibly their birth records would have been 1740's are prior to that. I know there were Griffith's in Chester County but don't know much about the surrounding PA counties. One other item in Loudoun Co., Va is a record for William Griffith for an appraisal of 30 Dec 1776 for farm and household items. The settlement was with Excors Jonathan Myers and John Williams, beginning 1783 mentioning Martha Griffith. I am attempting to prove Jane Griffith's lineage which might include the list below at the First Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia Co., PA. I am wondering if any of this group moved or might be kin to the Griffith's in Chester Co., PA. ? I am really having a problem connecting these Griffiths in Philadelphia Co., Pa to others in surrounding counties. Any information would greatly be appreciated especially on the Griffith line. Thank you very much, Marianne Dillow These are marriage records where my Wlliam Lewis married Jane Griffith in 1740. They made a typo stating 1704. It is in the 1740 time frame. Church: Part I: FIRST PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH Marriages 1702-1745: Philadelphia, PA Contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives Joe Patterson jpatter@epix.net OCR'd and proofread by Judy Banja jbanja@email.msn.com USGENWEB NOTICE: Printing this file within by non-commercial individuals and libraries is encouraged, as long as all notices and submitter information are included. Any other use, including copying files to other sites, requires permission from the submitters PRIOR to uploading to any other sites. We encourage links to the state and county table of contents. ____________________________________________________________ NOTE: This file is a combined groom and bride alpha listing so each couple should appear twice. It is as shown in the book. Part II contains later marriages. Pennsylvania Archives. Second Series. Vol. IX. Published under direction of Matthew S. Quay, Secretary of the Commonwealth. Edited by John B. Linn and Wm. H. Egle, M.D. Harrisburg: Lane S. Hart, State Printer, 1880. "Marriage Record of the First Presbyterian Church of Philadelphia, 1702-1745," pp. 3-78 FIRST PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, PHILA. 1702-1745. 3 3, 9, 1744, Lewis, Abraham, and Rebekah Davis. 3, 17, 1740, Lewis, Anne, and William Reynolds. 4, 5, 1727, Lewis, Anne, and David Evans. 3, 22, 1725, Lewis, David, and Mary Simmons. 6, 1, 1733, Lewis, David, and Sarah Jones. 6, 3, 1744, Lewis, David, and Rachel Griffith, L. 10, 26, 1744, Lewis, Eliz, and John Davis. 1, 20, 1746, Lewis, George, and Mary McGeorge, L. 10, 29, 1732, Lewis, Hannah, and William Jones. 1, 31, 1742, Lewis, Henry, and Margaret James. 2, 4, 1739, Lewis, Joanna, and William South. 3, 16, 1744, Lewis, Joanna, and Richard Hood. 3, 17, 1739, Lewis, John, and Susanna Strickler. 6, 1, 1726, Lewis, John, and Sarah Kane, P.L. 8, 20, 1744, Lewis, John, and Anne Lydia. 10, 18, 1737, Lewis, Katherine, and William Collins. 5, 27, 1742, Lewis, Margaret, and Richard Griffith. 12, 11, 1737, Lewis, Margaret, and Roger Linen. 4, 24, 1744, Lewis, Martha, and Thomas Kelly. FIRST PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, PHILA. 43 10, 3, 1737, Lewis, Martha, and Joseph Thomas. 11, 21, 1741, Lewis, Mary, and Henry Trimble. 10, 31, 1733, Lewis, Mary, and Robert Cooper. 7, 22, 1744, Lewis, Peter, and Mary Williams. 7, 22, 1737, Lewis, Ralph, and Eliz Winn. 3, 9, 1744, Lewis, Sarah, and John Harper. 5, 27, 1743, Lewis, Sarah, and Jacob Kimmerlin. 11, 6, 1740, Lewis, Thomas, and Jane Thomas. 10, 18, 1744, Lewis, Thomas, and Anne Edwards, L. 11, 25, 1743, Lewis, William, and Margaret Davis. 3, 18, 1704, Lewis, William, and Jane Griffith. 8, 26, 1736, Griffith, Abraham, and Mary Jones. 2, 12, 1733, Grifth, Anne, and Samuel Bond. 4, 24, 1745, Griffith, Archibald, and Mary Marron. 4, 27, 1739, Griffith, Eleanor, and Isaac White. 2, 26, 1742, Griffith, Eunice, and Roger Hughs. FIRST PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, PHILA. 29 11, 23, 1742, Griffith, Evan, and Bathsheba Tunis. 3, 14, 1740, Griffith, Isaac, and Sarah Bacon. 8, 18, 1704, Griffith, Jane, and William Lewis. 9, 1, 1727, Griffith, Jane, and William Owen. 12, 26, 1739, Grifflth, John, and Agnes McClenan. 5, 11, 1745, Griffith, Mary, and James McKreckan. 2, 6, 1744, Griffith, Mary, and Daniel Beaton, L. 7, 5, 1738, Griffith, Mary, and Robert Malledy. 6, 3, 1744, Griffith, Rachel, and David Lewis, L. 5, 27, 1742, Griffith, Richard, and Margaret Lewis. 6, 12, 1740, Griffith, Sarah, and Henry McDonald. 11, 16, 1737, Griffith, William, and Elizabeth Hellings.

Does anyone know what the E. A. in E. A. Presb. might mean after a name in 1702 please? Also where such a qualification might have been awarded? Robyn

What location (country, etc.)? ----- Original Message ----- From: <robynmat@internode.on.net> To: <PRESBYTERIAN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:42 AM Subject: [PRESBYTERIAN] qualification E. A. Presb. > Does anyone know what the E. A. in E. A. Presb. might mean > after a name in 1702 please? Also where such a qualification > might have been awarded? > Robyn > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: > PRESBYTERIAN-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRESBYTERIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynda Lapine" <wac72@charter.net> To: "Marilyn Bess" <oldcountrybarn@verizon.net> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] Researching grandmother > Thanks. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <crhlwh@sbcglobal.net> > > To: <presbyterian@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:20 PM > > Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] Researching grandmother > > > > > >> Maybe Cumberland Presbyterian > >> > >> Charlie Humphrey > >>

to the list, since Lynda is not a member of this list, I forwarde your replies to her and she says thanks. Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynda Lapine" <wac72@charter.net> To: "Marilyn Bess" <oldcountrybarn@verizon.net> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [PRESBYTERIAN] Researching grandmother > Thanks for such a speedy response. I will research this. Lynda Lapine