Cher, I had some comments - so I thought I would address your list here: 1. I will send my research to Barrie Petty so that it can be circulated to the non-computer users. I do realize that there are tons of those folks. And perhaps worse yet, my experience is that they are sometimes older folks with TONS of information that is useful to all of us and no way for us to get to them. Please do share your information! That is the entire point of being a member of Genealogy Association of any type! 2. Reunions: I'd love to come, but I think this is nearly impossible for me. I can barely make it to my own closer family reunions and they, tiny and infrequent as they are, are my first choice in such things. Broader Pennington reunions are great, but not much help to me. I, too, find it difficult to attend the reunions. I work full time and don't make a great deal of money. This isn't a very important aspect of my membership, but it is for many others who have the time and money to attend - more power to them! 3. Groups: I have to agree with Barb that most research takes place inside this various groups and not much outside them. Or at least it has been to this point. When everything comes online in February, that will change, theorectically. I said I offered to start a group. I know Gene told me something about this, but it does not appear to be an easy task. Let me ask a few questions - are you utilizing your free time to conduct research for others for free? Do you spend a great deal of time persuing information that has no bearing on your particular Pennington? The answer to both those question is probably no. Usually when you trade information with someone you are getting something back. Some of the group leaders are better than others at conduction research and communicating that research. The reasons may be lack of skill or knowledge or lack of time or interest. I joined the PRA in 1998 or so - I don't remember th exact date. John French was still alive and helped me discover who my Elizabeth Pennington was (There are more Elizabeth Pennington's in the database than you can imagine) and he is responsible for the file - he contributed the research and did the work of inputting. My input hasn't been all that much. 4. DNA studies: Suffice to say that I wish I could be tested as well! 5. Web Page: * Web Queries: rather than having them organized by month and year and therefore requiring somebody to wade through them, why not let them just exist as a long chain as many other such queries pages do. It is FAR easier to scan a long chain of things than opening and reviewing and closing each monthly set. I can scan quickly. I've never gone through all the PRA ones because I just don't have that many hours. A quick tip - use the Ctrl - F or Find function - That will make your life a whole lot easier. Also - many of the queries have been archived on the newslist. Search the Newslist archives! * Family Groups: if PRA is serious about getting lots of groups going and you should be because there are a ton of us who do not fit into the existing groups, then you need to do this in a manner that encourages formation. How about an online form requesting a new group that can be submitted and some kind of specified and easily understood way to accomplish this task. Telling people to contact Gene and then providing all that info. about the way groups must be named and all is intimidating at best, discouraging at worst. Instead of 34 groups, I'd like to see more than 100....whatever number it takes to get as much information about these lines available as possible. That is how we are going to connect the dots to each other. I disagree - we don't have enough active Family Group Leaders as it is. I think that we need to rethink some of our family groups and instead of create more - merge a few. The DNA studies are showing that many of us are closer than we think. The onlly way we are going to connect the dots is if we "put our money where our mouth is!" I don't expect the PRA or the Group Leader to instantly provide me with my line. I expect guidance and help - but when it comes down to it - I must do my research not expect someone else to have the magic pill. Some of us may never make that magical connection and we will all have brick walls. All we can do is add the info to the JFMF as best we can. If you feel that we need a new group - talk to Renee' and Gene and give them your reasons. That is what they are asking for. You can't expect a group to be started simply because you want it - you need to show a need for it. By going through the process of explaining the reasons for a new group you can better understand it yourself. * Research: I don't expect anyone from any group to do my research. I expect to do it myself. I also expect to gather up whatever I can about Pennington's (like the Greenmount line that is not mine) and share it. That being said. HOW? Give me some forms to fill out online. Give me some easily explained directions for submitting info. If you want to share your information online - send it to Renee', Gene or me. Put it on the web via newslists. I think that many people forget what a tremendous resource we have in the newslists. Just think that there are 5 or 6 years of newslist information that you can search through. Set up your information in a format that it can be submitted to the Pedigrees. Discuss your research - maybe some fresh eyes and brains can see something that you don't. * General Comment: I just find the PRA web page very difficult to get around. In some ways it provides way too much information about some things and then gives nearly no exact directions on others. If there isn't a web page committee, there needs to be one. A web page is first of all - very difficult to set up and also takes a great deal of time with upkeep. It takes a while to develop a format that you like. The format of the current page could be improved. I have to admit that I have never had a problem navigating around the web page and the chief page that I spend my time is the Family Group page. A web page committee is not really a good way to go - because in the end you don't want to many people muddying up the pot. I'm sure that there are ways that I can improve my page - I do my best to provide as much info as possible in as accurate a way as possible. There are certainly things that could be done to clean it up - but to be honest I haven't had the time. That is a project for the winter and according to the snow coming down outside - I need to work on it soon! I have to say that Gene does an incredible amount of work and deserves a great deal of credit for the inroads that have been made in the PRA. He has to be a diplomat and a visionary and those two things don't always go together. Gene is the one on the front lines and I am thankful that he is there. There are many people who work very hard and don't get the credit that they deserve. Renee' is doing a great job as the ARD for the family groups - Barrie works hard on the Pedigrees and all of the others like Shirley Erickson or Jim Pennington who are family group leaders put in a lot of hours of work with little thanks. I don't have the time that I would like to devote to research. I catch a few hours a nite if I am lucky. I work 8 hours a day in front of a computer and don't always have the time or energy to do it after work. Cher - there are many who aren't directly connected to a group. All you can look for as a researcher are patterns. I wish that I could tell you who you descend from - if you were an Ashe Co., NC/Lee Co., VA/ or Harlan Co., KY Pennnington I might be able to help you. As the Group Leader for Group 7 - Desc. of Micajah Pennington, I have concentrated on those areas. During the last year - I am starting to include other groups in my research like Groups 16, 30, 31, & 32 - They seem to have a rather close connection to Group 7. The DNA research being conducted is giving us some great info because of Nick Pennington's insight and analysis. There has been more coming out of the PRA during the last few years than any time that I can remember. We aren't perfect, but we do have a very good foundation! I took no offense to your comments but rather urge you to contribute and become an active member. Understand what is going on and then you can help make the PRA better than it already is! Carmen Assistant Research Director - JFMF www.penningtonresearch.org PRA Family Group 7 Leader http://carmenj.my100megs.com/PenningtonPage/PRAGroup7.htm -----Original Message----- From: Spaulding [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Pennington-L] OK, I'm confused about PRA family groups. Hi. Shirley. Okey Dokey....let's keep going and maybe this is going to get through my thick skull. I think I joined after the mailing of the Pennington Pedigree so that is probably why I had no idea what was going on. Taking my issues one by one: 4. DNA studies: Well what can I say ladies. For any of us who have female connections to this line and no male Penningtons, this is virtually useless to us. We just don't have the right stuff to use it. And whilst I wish the guys well, I am jealous. I wish I could prove my heritage so easily with some DNA work. By the way, I still harbor some misgivings about all DNA stuff that is goign on in genealogy. There are lots of questions yet to be answered about how to use this info. Tricky questions regarding ethics and such. 5. Web Page: Now I'm really going to put my foot in it. I think the PRA webpage needs help. I realize that this is all volunteers and since I am an officer in a couple volunteer organizations (not genealogical), I recognize that resources are always thin. That being said, it simply is not easy to understand. Some issues: * Web Queries: rather than having them organized by month and year and therefore requiring somebody to wade through them, why not let them just exist as a long chain as many other such queries pages do. It is FAR easier to scan a long chain of things than opening and reviewing and closing each monthly set. I can scan quickly. I've never gone through all the PRA ones because I just don't have that many hours. * Family Groups: if PRA is serious about getting lots of groups going and you should be because there are a ton of us who do not fit into the existing groups, then you need to do this in a manner that encourages formation. How about an online form requesting a new group that can be submitted and some kind of specified and easily understood way to accomplish this task. Telling people to contact Gene and then providing all that info. about the way groups must be named and all is intimidating at best, discouraging at worst. Instead of 34 groups, I'd like to see more than 100....whatever number it takes to get as much information about these lines available as possible. That is how we are going to connect the dots to each other. * Research: I don't expect anyone from any group to do my research. I expect to do it myself. I also expect to gather up whatever I can about Pennington's (like the Greenmount line that is not mine) and share it. That being said. HOW? Give me some forms to fill out online. Give me some easily explained directions for submitting info. * General Comment: I just find the PRA web page very difficult to get around. In some ways it provides way too much information about some things and then gives nearly no exact directions on others. If there isn't a web page committee, there needs to be one. OK, so now that I have annoyed most of the PRA world. You may ask, who the heck do I think I am. Why a Penington, of course. Regards, Cher At 10:04 PM 01/05/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Dear Cher, > >I think your question is very valid. Others may be equally confused. I will >certainly be happy to visit with you on all these questions as I'm sure >others will. You may email me personally at <[email protected]> or via >this PRA-L list. Other officers of the group may also want to respond to >the particular questions that concern their area of expertise. Please >forgive me if I don't answer these questions in an orderly manner but I will >certainly try. > >First, the "Journal" is the "Pennington Pedigrees" which is published twice >yearly. It includes articles by members and researchers to hopefully >further all of our research. As a member of the Pennington Research >Association, you should be receiving the Journals. You may also order back >copies of this journal for a fee. The list is available at the association >website of www.penningtonresearch.org .There is also an index available of >some of the back issues that might assist you in knowing which back issues >to order to assist in your research. Our editor is a wonderfully talented >and organized person who puts major effort into a quality publication. She >relies heavily on the membership to submit material for these publications. >The volunteer editor is Barrie Petty <[email protected]>. You can even send >the material via email to her or by snail mail. > >All our membership hopefully understands that the entire organization is >made up of volunteers interested in researching the Pennington surname and >maintaining friendships with Penningtons. There is a yearly reunion where >many of the membership (and some non-members) get together. This year's >reunion will be at Earlham College in Indiana where the newly established >Pennington archives are being housed and being overseen by member Dr. Jasper >Green Pennington (again a volunteer). These reunions are held in various >places and hosted by various members. > >You are definitely my kind of researcher. Whenever, I am researching >somewhere and see a Pennington name, I collect or photograph the information >and share it (usually via the journal). It has been amazing to me, how me >of my group 11 members do not use computers at all and contact me via the >normal mail service. In today's society, we simply take it for granted that >everyone has a computer. There is still no substitute for visiting >courthouses, libraries, cemeteries etc. to obtain the information needed to >further the research. > >Now then, you say you have offered to establish a group of your Pennington >family. I think that is a wonderful idea. There are several Ross that I've >seen in the various families. None seem to be quite as early as your's. >The earliest one I find is a Ross Benton Pennington born 1857 in >Pennsylvania. The progenitor of this group is Edmund of abt. 1753 (group >14). Of course, this may not be your group at all. Other members may have >other ideas on what direction you might go. The Josiah you mentioned is >another one that isn't really spoken to so it may mean researching both >families to figure out which way to go. > >I'm so pleased that you've brought up all these questions. They all need to >be addressed and without the questions, the officers cannot know where the >memberships needs lie. It sounds like you have done some excellent work >on your family. Please don't give up and I would like for others to >respond as well with suggestions. > >Regards, >Shirley Erickson (group 11, Abel died 1819 Alabama and yes, I'm still >looking for his parents) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Spaulding" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:50 AM >Subject: Re: [Pennington-L] OK, I'm confused about PRA family groups. > > > > Shirley, What is "the journal" that is available to people without > > computer ability? I don't know what you are talking about. I'd be happy > > to share anything I have with everyone, but I mostly find this nearly > > impossible to accomplish. > > > > What I have is this: > > * I have my particular line documented back to about Ross T. >Penington, > > Sr. born 1820 Baltimore, MD. I have produced the GedCom for this and > > submitted to PRA. > > * I have documented two family grave plots in Greenmount Cemetery, > > Baltimore, MD. One holds my direct family members Penington in the >"Mumma" > > family plot. This documentation included plotting it, photographing it >and > > getting the burial cards from Greenmount. > > * I have done the same in Greenmount for another plot that is > > Pennington, but is not so far as I am aware directly related to my > > line. This is the Josiah Pennington family back to 1803. I have plotted > > it, photographed it. I did not bother to get the burial cards as they do > > not seem to be mine and nobody expressed interest in the info. > > * I joined PRA as a member. > > * I have offered to establish a new group the contains my Baltimore > > Penington family. > > I admit that I must be dense because I don't seem to grasp how best to >work > > with PRA. Just tell me what you want me to do and I will happily provide > > whatever I can and share whatever I have. If you want my info. printed in > > "the journal" then just explain how. That goes for all manner of other > > things. I sincerely hope I am not the only dense person out here. > > Cher > > > > > > > > > > At 09:43 AM 01/05/2004 -0600, you wrote: > > >That would be a wonderful item for the website but please consider also > > >having it printed in the journal. That way those that have no computer > > >ability can also enjoy. > > > > > >Shirley Erickson > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Spaulding" <[email protected]> > > >To: <[email protected]> > > >Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 1:18 PM > > >Subject: Re: [Pennington-L] OK, I'm confused about PRA family groups. > > > > > > > > > > Hi. I still have the plot plan and so forth for the Pennington >Greenmount > > > > Cemetery Plot that I did last year. Will you have the ability on the >new > > > > web site to gather documents and photos and make them available to > > > > everyone? If so, I can post the entire map and the individual grave > > >cards. > > > > Cher > > > > > > > > At 10:18 AM 01/03/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >Hi Cheryl, > > > > > I certainly understand your frustration, I can't tell you how >many > > > > >places I posted my relative to in hopes of finding someone. I was >just > > > > >stubborn and probably somewhat of a pest until I found a will >probated in > > >MD > > > > >for my grandfather Thomas. Then I reposted that information to the >PRA > > >list > > > > >and got lucky in finding my cousins. While finding a Family Group in >the > > > > >PRA to belong is helpful and the cousins that share a common ancestor > > >makes > > > > >everyone's tree grow like > > > > >it is on hormones or something. It is also important for anyone >tracking > > > > >ancestors to continue working on the person they are stuck on. If you > > >find > > > > >them on some census, some year in someplace, follow-up in the same >area > > >for > > > > >any probate records. While you are there, look for the marriage and >go > > >back > > > > >to the census for the other surname. Many times I found missing >family > > > > >members and grandparents because they were living with the married > > >inlaws. > > > > > Keep posting to the lists !!! POST a family query; POST what >record > > >you > > > > >have for the person; POST a marriage ; POST EVERYTHING and keep >searching > > > > >and posting everything and I promise you, you will eventually find >your > > > > >cousins. > > > > > I agree with you, with the PRA opening the various family files >we > > >will > > > > >be reach more people, share more information and at a much shorter >time > > > > >span. And with the DNA testing, if some of you haven't found your > > >cousins, > > > > >the DNA could at least point a finger to a group of cousins. > > > > > Thanks for posting Cheryl and Bob. By the way, Cheryl I haven't > > >forgot > > > > >about your Ross Pennington. Oh, do you remember the cemetery plot of > > > > >Pennington at Green Mount you sent me? It might help others to post >the > > > > >information to the mailing lists as well. We aren't able to send > > >attachments > > > > >to the mailing lists but at least you could post the information for >the > > > > >others. That is what we are all about - sharing! > > > > > Hang in there - you guys ! > > > > > > > > > >Rene'e Davis, CFO > > > > >ARD, Family Groups > > > > >PRA - Group 9 > > > > >Pennington Research Association, Inc. > > > > >www.penningtonresearch.org > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Spaulding" <[email protected]> > > > > >To: <[email protected]> > > > > >Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 7:36 AM > > > > >Subject: Re: [Pennington-L] OK, I'm confused about PRA family groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I certainly have shared Bob's angst and frustration with the PRA > > > > > > groups. My line, which is Baltimore based is well documented but >does > > >not > > > > > > go back far enough yet to connect to any of the PRA groups. It is >all > > > > >well > > > > > > and good Barb to suggest that membership in PRA and in a group >isn't > > > > > > mandatory, but the reality is that, up until now, the focus of PRA >has > > > > > > understandably been on the groups where the vast majority of >active > > > > > > research is taking place. Those of us who have no group have been > > >left > > > > >out > > > > > > in the cold and told to keep researching so that we can find a > > >connection > > > > > > to a PRA group. That's not much help, or very encouraging, >frankly. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy to have joined PRA, but I frankly have found it > > >anticlimatic > > > > >for > > > > > > the present. I am waiting with great expectation to the coming >change > > >in > > > > > > PRA which I believe will alter it to the better. The opening up >of > > >ALL > > > > >the > > > > > > records of all these lines to everyone through the new web access > > >planned, > > > > > > I believe, for February is a major shift in PRA. It is welcome >and it > > >was > > > > > > needed. When that happens, I suspect membership in PRA will >become > > > > > > something far more useful to all of us and being able to connect >to a > > > > > > particular "group" will be easier to accomplish. > > > > > > > > > > > > So hang in there Bob, things are about to change. Membership >will be > > > > > > required to access this new web based information, I believe, and >that > > > > > > makes sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheryl > > > > > > > > > > > > At 12:56 AM 01/03/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > >Dear Bob, > > > > > > >You are far from the first person to become confused by the PRA > > >groups. > > > > > > >They were started as a way to distinguish between the different >lines > > >and > > > > > > >when two lines were found to connect via a mutual ancestor, > > > > > > >then the two lines were merged as one. I am a former member of >PRA > > >and > > > > > > >during my years with PRA, I believed myself linked to Groups 12, >7, > > >and > > > > > > >later to Group 32. But these are merely tools, not mandatory in >any > > >way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >As to the groups being mostly back to an ancestor who was found >here > > >on > > > > > > >American soil, we are all trying to get back across that big >ocean, > > >but > > > > > > >seldom with any success. So it looks like you may already be a >step > > > > > > >ahead in that your ancestors came over more recently than many of >our > > > > > > >ancestors. If you are a member of PRA, you may be able to start >a > > >group, > > > > > > >if one does not appear to exist for your line. However, >membership > > >in > > > > > > >either a Group or in PRA itself is not required to access a great > > >deal of > > > > > > >data through these lists. Most of us love to share with others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >As to the lists, Pennington-L is an independent group owned and >run > > >by > > > > > > >Steve Privett, and PRA-L is a list run by PRA, of course. I'd > > >suggest > > > > > > >remaining on the list and sending out an occasional query as you >just > > > > > > >did. I know there are a few folks who are over in Great Britain, >who > > >are > > > > > > >researching as we are, for our Pennington ancestors. Possibly >some > > >of > > > > > > >these list members may be helful to you. Otherwise, since there >is > > > > > > >probably a good paper trail, I'd go ahead and send off for as >much as > > >I > > > > > > >could afford from British offices and agencies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Have you done much research with the U.S. sources? If you have >been > > > > > > >researching for awhile, you probably have looked at many sources >of > > >data > > > > > > >on your family, but there may be more you might have missed. Let >us > > >know > > > > > > >what you have tried so far. Have you checked the 1930 Census? > > >Marriage > > > > > > >records? Church records? Let us know. Many of us would like to > > >help if > > > > > > >we can. Please be careful with the data found on the internet. > > > > > > >I have seen more that was proven false than was proven accurate. >Try > > >to > > > > > > >find some primary sources, to supplement compilations and family > > >history > > > > > > >books, etc. These take time and effort but are worth it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Good luck, > > > > > > >Barb T > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== PENNINGTON Mailing List ==== > > > > > > >Please do not post virus warnings on this list. > > > > > > >Practice safe e-mail habits and only open attachments you're > > >expecting > > > > > > >For addition virus info see http://www.symantec.com/us.index.html >or > > > > > > >http://www.mcafee.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > > > >This message has been scanned for viruses and > > > > > > >dangerous content by The CCIS.net MailScanner, and is > > > > > > >believed to be clean. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PENNINGTON Mailing List ==== > > > > > > The threaded archives can be found at > > > > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/pennington > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== PRA Mailing List ==== > > > > >==== PENNINGTON RESEARCH ASSOCIATION ==== > > > > >To learn about the PRA Family Groups, visit the PRA Web Site at > > > > >http://www.penningtonresearch.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > >This message has been scanned for viruses and > > > > >dangerous content by The CCIS.net MailScanner, and is > > > > >believed to be clean. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PRA Mailing List ==== > > > > ==== PENNINGTON RESEARCH ASSOCIATION ==== > > > > For help with your research, go to > > > > http://www.penningtonresearch.org and > > > > click on Research Tips. > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== PRA Mailing List ==== > > >==== PENNINGTON RESEARCH ASSOCIATION ==== > > >PRA publications are available at the PRA Web Site at > > >http://www.penningtonresearch.org > > > > > > > > >-- > > >This message has been scanned for viruses and > > >dangerous content by The CCIS.net MailScanner, and is > > >believed to be clean. > > > > > > ==== PRA Mailing List ==== > > ==== PENNINGTON RESEARCH ASSOCIATION List ==== > > For more information about the PRA visit our Web Site at > > http://www.penningtonresearch.org > > > > >==== PRA Mailing List ==== >==== PENNINGTON RESEARCH ASSOCIATION ==== >For more information about the PRA DNA Study, visit our Web Site at >http://www.penningtonresearch.org > > >-- >This message has been scanned for viruses and >dangerous content by The CCIS.net MailScanner, and is >believed to be clean. ==== PRA Mailing List ==== ==== PENNINGTON RESEARCH ASSOCIATION List ==== For more information about the PRA visit our Web Site at http://www.penningtonresearch.org