Typically, the LVA bimonthly library newsletter has an article in each issue covering new material now placed on line at the LVA web site. This month the article is quite long and details the materials of the "Virginia Historical Inventory" that are now on line. This is a collection of WPA works accumulating writings, maps and other materials collected in the 30's. On the surface, that would say little of interest to us other than curios. However, some of this material details "inventories" back into the 18th and 19th centuries. You might find a search interesting. Maynard

I found this on line, and I thought it worth sharing. Newent, as you are aware, is the spot where Francis Poythress, original immigrant Poythress, was baptized. I checked http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/ in the archives for Newent. Diana Newent starting to be chronicled "And we shall need help," said Dr Nicholas Herbert, who has been editor of the Gloucestershire project for more than 30 years. Newent doesn't have a modern history or even a good old history.They already have source material in three books written by Newent historian David Bick, in particular on the Mines of Newent and Ross and the Hereford and Gloucester Canal. "We hope also to be getting material from private individuals who have dug out things in their attics, from solicitors' offices, public institutions and parish councils," said Dr Herbert. 31/05/01

Thought I'd past this to this list in case these folks are monitoring this list... Carol From: "Charles Dozier" <[email protected]> | Block Address | Add to Address Book To: <[email protected]> Subject: Information, Please Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:15:01 -0400 Dear Carol, I have recently found the NORTHAMPTON County sight on the internet. This is in North Carolina. However, when I e -mail these addresses they are returned to me. The one that I am most interested in at this time is one for a Jean Poythross Spille [email protected] com Another one that I was interested in was: Bill Kemp at [email protected] I know these two people could help me and I am sure that could help them with this inquiry regarding Turners, Poythress and Peters/Peterson. Is there any e-mail address that I could find out where these people in hopes of calling them. As I said both e-mails came back as if the servers were out of use. Any help you can give me will be appreciated. Elsie [email protected]

Be off the air for a few days folks. Have an opportunity to run down to Hilton Head for a high cotton two night freebie and figure to spend a couple of days in the Smokies on the way back. Back about Tues or Wed of next week. Y'all behave. Maynard

An issue or so back the LVA news bulletin announced that a searchable index for these records would be placed on line. From the progress todate, it appears that they are moving slowly or perhaps the job is bigger than they figured. It appears that only 15 or so counties have been indexed. While I searched "all" counties, only 3 of "ours" are indexed: Brunswick, Chesterfield and Mecklenburg. It is possible to search for "any" name in the document, not only the plaintiff and the defendent. This makes the search as broad as possible and the name Poythress appears in all of the documents below. Unfortunately, none have been filmed but all are available for use in the records room of the LVA. Copies must be made by library personnel. Copies may be ordered by mail for 50 cents per page and one is cautioned that some chancery cases can run long. Out of state requests are, as usual, socked with a $20 PER CASE charge. Obviously, we need to do the search either in the library or have a Virginian order them for us. To reach the index page go to the library site: http://www.lva.lib.va.us/ .....go to The Chancery Records Index. An extensive FAQ page is helpful. I have pulled the records in which a Poythress is mentioned in any capacity. The key for the case "number" is four digits representing the year of the conclusion of the case, a dash, and three digits in numerical sequence for the order of indexing at the library. Locality LVA Reel# Local Reel# Plaintiffs vs. Defendants Index # Brunswick Co. Not filmed Not filmed William Warwick Thomas Poythress 1788-008 Brunswick Co. Not filmed Not filmed William Mallory, etc. Thomas Poythress 1792-007 Brunswick Co. Not filmed Not filmed William Warwick Thomas Poythress 1793-008 Brunswick Co. Not filmed Not filmed William Warwick Thomas Poythress 1796-017 Brunswick Co. Not filmed Not filmed William Warwick Excrs of James Mason 1796-017 Brunswick Co. Not filmed Not filmed John Walton, etc. Heir(s) of James Mason, etc.1804-031 Brunswick Co. Not filmed Not filmed Benjamin Mosely & Wife J. J. Singleton Etc. 1890-038 Chesterfield Co. Not filmed Not filmed Robert Elam the elder, etc. Frederick Raines, etc. 1783-031 Chesterfield Co. Not filmed Not filmed Tabitha Randolph Exr. of Peter Poythress 1798-023 Mecklenburg Co. Not filmed Not filmed Joshua Smith, etc. Hutchins Ferrell 1808-008 Mecklenburg Co. Not filmed Not filmed Lewis Poythress Edward Giles, Admr. etc. 1820-012 Mecklenburg Co. Not filmed Not filmed Petition of Sarah W. Crowder &C by etc. (sic) Blank 1852-013 Mecklenburg Co. Not filmed Not filmed Jones, etc. Admr. of Harwell, etc. 1858-015 CC (?) Mecklenburg Co. Not filmed Not filmed Edward Thomas, etc. Richard S. Thomas &C by etc. 1865-011 Mecklenburg Co. Not filmed Not filmed Everett King Mansfield R. Seymour etc. 1867-027 CC Mecklenburg Co. Not filmed Not filmed William L. Poythress Exr. of Nancy Thomas 1880-030 CC Mecklenburg Co. Not filmed Not filmed R. P. Cleaton Harriet Thomas, etc. 1889-007 CC The above total 17 cases. Frankly, the admonition for ordering copies @ .50 that "some of these cases are quiet long" is more interesting than intimidating; I assume that means just all the more detail. Even if its an average of 8 pages per case that works out to less than $70. Obviously, to pay the out-of-state fee is a $340 choker that we avoid at all costs. How to proceed? I guess first question is to we have anyone ready to kill a day in the library? If not, do we have a VA resident that will order them? I suppose we could split them up for transcribing purposes. Thoughts? Maynard

Thanks, Lyn, for the clarifying info. Cheers, Barbara

I had the pleasure of going to the S.C. Genealogical Society Conference in Columbia, SC this past weekend. It was a pleasure, losing 3rd gear was not, but that is another more expensive story. So coming down 95 and 301 I touched such places where Poythresses were and are. For the first time, north of Wilson on 301 I noticed Poythress Road. So I got to thinking and when I came home I found more Poythress Roads: Gloria B. Poythress 252.237.2711 (B) 1994 03-31-2001 1917-B Poythress Road 252.291.9166 (H) 03-09-1998 (Reappointment) Wilson, NC 27893 happens to be on the Board of Adjustment there not to mention being an event coordinator. RED CLAY RAMBLERS - bluegrass, Sat., Oct. 1 & Sun., Oct. 2, Camp Pow Wow, Poythress Road, Chatham Country. 7 p.m. $20/$10 forv12 and under. [I assume North Carolina] Mr. Willie T. Gates, of Poythress Road, Newnan, died Nov. 29, 1998 at Newnan Hospital. Mr. Gates was the husband of Mrs. Leona Gates. Funeral arrangements will be announced later. Sellers-Smith Funeral Home Inc., Newnan. and Mr. Brison "Brad" Evans, 28, of Poythress Road in Newnan passed away Sept. 8, 1997 at Peachtree Regional Hospital. Born Feb. 28, 1969, Mr. Evans was the son of the late Charlie A. Evans. He was preceded in death by a brother, Charlie Albert Evans Jr. Memorial services were held Sept. 11 at Sellers-Smith Funeral Home with the Rev. Marion H. Price Sr. officiating, assisted by the Rev. J.C. Strickland and minister Mary Nell Burden. ON MOTION of Commissioner McGuffey, seconded by Commissioner Schlumper, passing unanimously, the Board voted to approve the minutes from Regular Meeting held on March 20, 2001 with clarification that the county does not need to obtain right-of-way on Poythress Road, and approved the minutes from their Called Meeting held on March 26, 2001. {Coweta County, Ga.} 15. Final Approval of Glen Ridge, Phase Two: Consideration of a request by Musigny, Inc. for final approval of Glen Ridge, Phase Two, consisting of four (4) lots on approximately 19.9 acres, off SR #1534 (Poythress Road) in Baldwin Township {Chatham County, N.C.} I guess you had to be there. Craig Craig R. Scott, CGRS Willow Bend Books 65 East Main Street Westminster, MD 21157-5026 [email protected] www.WillowBendBooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Diamond" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:54 PM Subject: Virginia Graveyards > Interesting, Maynard. > > The article you posted late last week about a Prince William record book > posted on Ebay reminded me of this article . Old grave stones are another > possible source of new genealogical material in Virginia. > > Who knows? Some of those missing Poythress links may turn up yet. > > Diana > > > Reclaiming Forgotten Family Graveyards > Counties Are Mapping Obscure Cemeteries In Bid to Shield Them > > By Michael Amon > Washington Post Staff Writer > Sunday, July 8, 2001; Page C01 > > > In fast-growing Prince William County, the sleep of the dead is disturbed > just as the sleep of the living -- by the din of construction. > > For years, residents believe, bulldozers making way for fancy town houses > have paved over family graveyards and slave burial sites. The county, like > much of Virginia and Maryland, is full of centuries-old cemeteries -- many > of which are almost undetectable to developers. > > "On just about any development of any size, there's bound to be a cemetery > within a stone's throw that needs to be protected," said Don Wilson, a > historian at the Bull Run Regional Library near Manassas. > > But Prince William officials face a problem common across the expanding > Washington region: They don't know where the graves are. So the county is > taking measures to keep cemeteries away from the cement. Over the next year, > it will search for and document every graveyard in the county -- from the > large Manassas city cemetery to those as small as a couple of fieldstones > that date to the Revolutionary War. > > The effort is similar to others across the Washington region. In Loudoun > County, private historians at the Thomas Balch Library in Leesburg have been > documenting graveyards and supplying the information to the county for 18 > months. Fairfax completed a study of its cemeteries in 1995. And this year, > Maryland embarked upon a project to identify and map each of the state's > 6,000 to 9,000 burial sites. > > "The new people who come in are just plain ignorant of the graveyards," said > Kristin Kraske, president of the Coalition to Protect Maryland Burial Sites > Inc. "Nobody has mapped them out or anything. You don't see them until you > hit them, and that has happened." > > In Prince William, the new cemetery information will update county maps that > the planning office uses when reviewing potential developments. Current maps > display about 255 cemeteries, but they're not accurate, said county planner > Robert Bainbridge. > > "The map will protect people from violating Virginia law," Bainbridge said. > It is a misdemeanor to intentionally disturb a cemetery in Virginia. > > Ron Turner, the local historian hired to conduct the survey, predicted that > he would find at least 150 forgotten cemeteries before next spring. With the > help of satellites, Turner will pinpoint the longitude and latitude of every > graveyard he finds. > > Not knowing where the cemeteries are has been a problem for developers. > > In 1985, the Potomac Mills shopping center had to build around two small > family burial grounds. Mills Corp., which built and operates the mall, > preserves and maintains the graveyards of the Pattersons, who were > 19th-century dairy farmers, and the Nashes, a family that lived in the > Dumfries District since the turn of the century. Each is isolated from the > shopping center by a fence. > > Construction crews at Baltimore-Washington International Airport once turned > up a potter's field. > > And several graves have been found on what will soon become one of Prince > William's largest subdivisions -- the $3 billion, 2,500-home Southbridge > development on the Cherry Hill Peninsula. > > One of them is Dunnington Cemetery. Typical of many old family plots, > Dunnington is little more than a few depressions in the ground surrounded by > vegetation and forest and covered with periwinkle, a flower often planted on > graves before the 20th century. > > It is in the middle of what planners hope will become a Reston-style town > center with more than 3.7 million square feet of commercial office space. > Southbridge developer Mike Anderson said he is going to try to make the > graveyard a prominent feature of the development. > > "When all is said and done, you'd rather not have a cemetery on the land > because it adds a constraint, but you can also use it to make a connection > between the past and the future," Anderson said. > > Not far from Dunnington is Tebbsdale Cemetery, where Revolutionary War Col. > Willoughby Tebbs was buried in 1803. The graveyard is named on county maps, > but when Anderson began surveying the land, he found it on the other side of > a creek, about a half-mile from its purported location. > > Cemetery documentation efforts are common in the South, where family plots > often outnumber church and city cemeteries. The issue is particularly keen > in Virginia, said Brian Conley, a Fairfax historian who documented > cemeteries. > ***** > In 1623, the Virginia House of Burgesses passed a law requiring large > plantations to have cemeteries, eliminating the need for large community and > church plots, Conley said. "That same idea was passed on to smaller > plantations and family farms," Conley said. "The model followed into the > early 20th century." > ******* > In Maryland, family cemeteries have rubbed shoulders with development and > expansion. > > In May, the King and White families in Howard County persuaded public > officials not to take land from their 172-year-old family cemetery to widen > a road. > > The King-White cemetery has 29 headstones, but the family believes there are > many unmarked graves and slaves who might have been buried closer to the > road, said Sylvia Crutchfield, a White descendant who lives in Alexandria. > > In the next year, the families will have an archaeologist survey the land > and identify all the graves. > > And many Kings and Whites want the family cemetery to be their own final > resting place. > > "I will be buried there myself," Crutchfield said. "These are my ancestors. > This is my family. This land belonged to us for centuries. It's something > that you know is permanent." > > > > © 2001 The Washington Post Company > > > ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ==== > The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/ > > > > >

I guess it has escaped me in the past that the Poythress family and submarines have a long history. I entered--Poythress submarine--into google, and it gave me the URL below, wherein a Poythress was part of the operations behind the Hunley, if I read this correctly. I used Control-F and entered Poythress on Microsoft Explorer, to find the name in a long list of names on this site: http://www.thistlegroup.net/holyloch/hunley3.htm But, Maynard, you should check out the other listings--Poythress submarine--spits out. Two pages. Some more interesting than others. In the Archives I found these two mentions of Jack and the submarine. http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ifetch2?/u1/textindices/P/POYTHRESS +2000+193444850+F http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ifetch2?/u1/textindices/P/POYTHRESS +1997+158292988+F Diana

Interesting, Maynard. The article you posted late last week about a Prince William record book posted on Ebay reminded me of this article . Old grave stones are another possible source of new genealogical material in Virginia. Who knows? Some of those missing Poythress links may turn up yet. Diana Reclaiming Forgotten Family Graveyards Counties Are Mapping Obscure Cemeteries In Bid to Shield Them By Michael Amon Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, July 8, 2001; Page C01 In fast-growing Prince William County, the sleep of the dead is disturbed just as the sleep of the living -- by the din of construction. For years, residents believe, bulldozers making way for fancy town houses have paved over family graveyards and slave burial sites. The county, like much of Virginia and Maryland, is full of centuries-old cemeteries -- many of which are almost undetectable to developers. "On just about any development of any size, there's bound to be a cemetery within a stone's throw that needs to be protected," said Don Wilson, a historian at the Bull Run Regional Library near Manassas. But Prince William officials face a problem common across the expanding Washington region: They don't know where the graves are. So the county is taking measures to keep cemeteries away from the cement. Over the next year, it will search for and document every graveyard in the county -- from the large Manassas city cemetery to those as small as a couple of fieldstones that date to the Revolutionary War. The effort is similar to others across the Washington region. In Loudoun County, private historians at the Thomas Balch Library in Leesburg have been documenting graveyards and supplying the information to the county for 18 months. Fairfax completed a study of its cemeteries in 1995. And this year, Maryland embarked upon a project to identify and map each of the state's 6,000 to 9,000 burial sites. "The new people who come in are just plain ignorant of the graveyards," said Kristin Kraske, president of the Coalition to Protect Maryland Burial Sites Inc. "Nobody has mapped them out or anything. You don't see them until you hit them, and that has happened." In Prince William, the new cemetery information will update county maps that the planning office uses when reviewing potential developments. Current maps display about 255 cemeteries, but they're not accurate, said county planner Robert Bainbridge. "The map will protect people from violating Virginia law," Bainbridge said. It is a misdemeanor to intentionally disturb a cemetery in Virginia. Ron Turner, the local historian hired to conduct the survey, predicted that he would find at least 150 forgotten cemeteries before next spring. With the help of satellites, Turner will pinpoint the longitude and latitude of every graveyard he finds. Not knowing where the cemeteries are has been a problem for developers. In 1985, the Potomac Mills shopping center had to build around two small family burial grounds. Mills Corp., which built and operates the mall, preserves and maintains the graveyards of the Pattersons, who were 19th-century dairy farmers, and the Nashes, a family that lived in the Dumfries District since the turn of the century. Each is isolated from the shopping center by a fence. Construction crews at Baltimore-Washington International Airport once turned up a potter's field. And several graves have been found on what will soon become one of Prince William's largest subdivisions -- the $3 billion, 2,500-home Southbridge development on the Cherry Hill Peninsula. One of them is Dunnington Cemetery. Typical of many old family plots, Dunnington is little more than a few depressions in the ground surrounded by vegetation and forest and covered with periwinkle, a flower often planted on graves before the 20th century. It is in the middle of what planners hope will become a Reston-style town center with more than 3.7 million square feet of commercial office space. Southbridge developer Mike Anderson said he is going to try to make the graveyard a prominent feature of the development. "When all is said and done, you'd rather not have a cemetery on the land because it adds a constraint, but you can also use it to make a connection between the past and the future," Anderson said. Not far from Dunnington is Tebbsdale Cemetery, where Revolutionary War Col. Willoughby Tebbs was buried in 1803. The graveyard is named on county maps, but when Anderson began surveying the land, he found it on the other side of a creek, about a half-mile from its purported location. Cemetery documentation efforts are common in the South, where family plots often outnumber church and city cemeteries. The issue is particularly keen in Virginia, said Brian Conley, a Fairfax historian who documented cemeteries. ***** In 1623, the Virginia House of Burgesses passed a law requiring large plantations to have cemeteries, eliminating the need for large community and church plots, Conley said. "That same idea was passed on to smaller plantations and family farms," Conley said. "The model followed into the early 20th century." ******* In Maryland, family cemeteries have rubbed shoulders with development and expansion. In May, the King and White families in Howard County persuaded public officials not to take land from their 172-year-old family cemetery to widen a road. The King-White cemetery has 29 headstones, but the family believes there are many unmarked graves and slaves who might have been buried closer to the road, said Sylvia Crutchfield, a White descendant who lives in Alexandria. In the next year, the families will have an archaeologist survey the land and identify all the graves. And many Kings and Whites want the family cemetery to be their own final resting place. "I will be buried there myself," Crutchfield said. "These are my ancestors. This is my family. This land belonged to us for centuries. It's something that you know is permanent." © 2001 The Washington Post Company

Ever since the raising of the C. S. S. Hunley, people are discovering Confederate submarines practically in goldfish ponds. The following article is interesting. It cites what was apparently a widespread (and published) effort to encourage citizens to design and/or build underwater attack vessels as a quick response to the blockade problem. I don't have the date on the story of Jack Poythress and his ill-fated invention in which he presumably drowned but if that happened during the war years this article lends it some credibility. BY BRIAN HICKS Of The Post and Courier staff No one knows how the little Civil War-era submarine was built, how it operated or what happened to its crew. For more than a century those mysteries have stumped historians and scientists. Now the tiny submersible rests in a conservation lab, with scientists working to restore it to its former glory and unlock its many secrets. It is a familiar tale around Charleston, but this is not the story of the H.L. Hunley. This submarine, which belongs to the Louisiana State Museum, is undergoing rehabilitation anonymously in a New Orleans lab. If it ever had a name, it's long since been forgotten. Found in a clump of weeds on the bank of Lake Pontchartrain in 1878, the sub was long thought to be Horace Hunley and James McClintock's first effort, the Pioneer. New research by Louisiana scholars and Hunley historians indicates that's unlikely. If it's not the Pioneer, what is it? There is no shortage of theories. Some say a plantation owner built the sub and two slaves perished in it on a test run. Others believe it's a prototype for a submarine that a New Orleans businessman wanted to build. It may be one of a fleet of subs built during the war in Shreveport, La. Greg Lambousy, curator of exhibits for the Louisiana State Museum in New Orleans, says the best guess right now seems to be that the sub was built in New Orleans by one or two likely suspects. But he's ruling nothing out. "It could be related to McClintock and Hunley," Lambousy said. "But McClintock never mentioned it." The sub is 21 feet long - half the size of the Hunley - but shares many other characteristics with the world's first attack sub: It is made of iron; it had a propeller turned by men working a handcrank; it had diving fins and maybe even a spar. The lower part of the hull is rotted from poor early 20th-century preservation efforts, but it doesn't need the electrolysis treatment the Hunley requires to restore the health of its iron hull. Conservators estimate it needs another year or so of work before the submarine is ready for display. When it is put on exhibit, though, they aren't sure what beginning they will put on its long, strange history. The notion of underwater boats was in vogue among Southerners in the early days of the Civil War. Without a Navy of its own, the Confederates were desperately searching for a way to level the playing field on the water. Without the resources, money or time to build a fleet of warships, they had to improvise. A letter published in a Tennessee newspaper near the beginning of the war urged Southerners to build sneaky underwater war machines. The writer even provided a general blueprint - diving fins, screw propeller, etc. Whether that letter sparked it, several projects soon were under way across Dixie. Hunley and McClintock teamed up in this environment. Together with some wealthy investors, including Hunley's brother-in-law, they began work on a little sub they called, appropriately enough, the Pioneer. The Pioneer carried a crew of three: one man to steer and operate its diving fins; two to crank handles that turned the propeller. According to McClintock, it had no ballast tanks. The exact size is subject to debate. It could have been anywhere from 30- to 35-feet long. After the war, McClintock wrote, "She was made of iron a quarter-inch thick. The boat was of a cigar shape, 30 feet long, and 4 feet in diameter." In March 1862, the Pioneer received a privateer license. It was the only sub to receive official recognition from the Confederate government during the war. But it never saw combat - it was still undergoing test runs on Lake Pontchartrain when the Union invaded New Orleans in April 1862. There was no way to save the submarine. It was too heavy to carry out of the city, and it didn't have the range to escape upriver. Hunley and McClintock chose to scuttle the sub in a canal on the outskirts of town to keep it out of Yankee hands. Just before they escaped the city under siege, they watched as workers opened its hatch and let murky river water fill the hull until it disappeared. More than a decade after the end of the war, in 1878, workers dredging the mouth of Bayou St. John found a pumpkinseed-shaped submarine lying in the weeds on the banks of the lake. It piqued little interest, and the sub continued to lie there abandoned for years. Later it was moved to nearby Spanish Fort, then an amusement park. When William Alexander, the Mobile engineer who helped build the Hunley, published his lengthy history of the first attack sub in the New Orleans paper in 1902, an editor's note at the beginning of the article mentioned the abandoned sub out near Pontchartrain: "Visitors to Spanish Fort may still see, half submerged in the weeds and flowers growing on the bank of Bayou St. John, a rusty vessel of curious shape. It is built of iron, about 20 feet long, and besides a propeller at the stern, is adorned on either side by strangely shaped broad metal fins. .... It was built during the war by Captain Hunley as a submarine torpedo boat." Most likely, the sub had been misidentified as the Pioneer long before, but no one would question that claim for decades. In 1908, the funny fish-boat was moved to the nearby Camp Nicholls Confederate Home, where it would sit on display for more than 30 years. As the little sub began to rust out, it was partially filled with concrete - under the assumption that would preserve it. Dave Johnson, one of the conservators working on the sub project, said that well-meaning gesture did not help. The concrete trapped moisture in the sub, and the water sparked rust. As the concrete expanded, the hull began to crack. Slowly, the boat was being destroyed. In the mid-20th century, the Louisiana State Museum took ownership and moved the sub to Jackson Square across from the Cafe du Monde coffee shop. Eventually, its rudders and propeller blades disappeared - French Quarter souvenirs. Later, the sub was placed behind bars under a portico at the Presbytere arcade, one of the museum's exhibit halls. And there it sat until 1999, most of that time people still believing it was the Pioneer, the grandfather of the H.L. Hunley. After the Hunley was discovered in 1995, interest in Civil War submarines was revived. During that period, Mark Ragan, Hunley historian and author, found records that seemed to indicate the museum's boat was not one of the Hunley line. In late 1863, Union engineers stationed in New Orleans found the Pioneer lying in the mud around New Basin Canal, where McClintock had sunk his ship a year-and-a-half earlier. A sketch of the sub was sent to an assistant secretary of the Navy. The sketch looks more like an early version of the Hunley - which it was - and not the strange New Orleans boat. A few years later, the Pioneer apparently suffered a sad end. In 1868, a New Orleans paper reported that a torpedo submarine boat found in the New Basin Canal after the war would be sold at auction that day. The next edition reported the sub sold for scrap metal for $45. It was never seen again. It is almost fitting that the museum's sub was confused with the Pioneer for so long, because the Pioneer may have had its history mixed up with this submarine's. Lambousy says one historical account the museum found tells a strange tale about a wartime submarine boat. A wealthy plantation owner had built the submarine to send into battle against a Union ship. He ordered two slaves to test it in the river, and there they perished. The submarine sank. For years, that tale was dismissed as legend, but part of the story shows up in the Union's official report of its investigation of the Pioneer. William H. Shock, the Union engineer who found the Pioneer, told Navy officials that he'd been told two "contrabands" died in it on trial runs. That story doesn't mesh with McClintock's history of his first sub. The Pioneer was piloted by a friend of Hunley's and no one ever died on it, according to McClintock. Could this be the slave sub? Lambousy says there is no evidence either way. Historians have little to go on, but they believe the submarine was built in New Orleans - a number of foundries there could have done the work. It could have come from other cities - submarines were being built all across the South, and the North - at the time. Four submarines were built in Shreveport, La., and some of those have not been accounted for. The leading candidates as the sub's builders are John Nesmyth and John Roy. Historical records show Nesmyth created a "submarine mortar" and Roy experimented with cannon that fired underwater. But Lambousy concedes no one may ever know where the submarine really came from. Dave Johnson, a metals conservation expert, says the sub did not absorb much saltwater while in the lake, although Pontchartrain may not have been as salty in the 19th century as it is now. He says it appears the submarine was propelled by two men while another man drove - just like the Pioneer. The sub has iron ballast in its bottom but also may have allowed water in the crew compartment. "They may have cranked with their feet wet," Johnson says. There are some innovative design attributes on the sub - its forward hatch, long since gone, was offset to one side, away from the crankshaft. There appears to be a place to mount a spar. Its hull plates are formed in a strange pattern - this was not a converted boiler. "This was built to be a submarine," Johnson says. The conservators had to chip the concrete out of the hull, a painful and painstaking task. They are now scraping the rust, treating the sub gingerly and not doing anything that can't be reversed. Bob Neyland, Hunley project director, had a look at the sub and said he noted some similarities with the Hunley. The New Orleans sub is more primitive, and may predate the Hunley, he said, but the two boats share several attributes. Although he knows little about the sub, Neyland is fairly certain of one thing. "It's not the Pioneer, because it doesn't match the two existing drawings of it. But it certainly is Civil War-era." The little Louisiana State Museum sub shares one other trait with the H.L. Hunley - it is reluctant to give up its secrets. Copyright 2001 The Post and Courier

Barbara and all, the 1870 household includes only Benjamin, age 72, George, age 25, and Anna, age 23, all surname Stanley, all born Virginia. Ten years later, George, age 47, is listed as single and the only other household member is one black servant, George Valentine. Anna does not appear in either the 1860 or 1850 households and, of course, not in the will. She makes this 1870 cameo appearance and then is gone. Perhaps Anna is a familiar name used by Martha. (Martha is listed as age 14 in the 1860 census.) Perhaps the census taker received incorrect information, Martha being reported incorrectly as Anna. Perhaps Anna is a real other person, not Martha, in the household. In brief, the children of Benjamin Stanley and Rebecca Poythress are as follows: George M., single as of 1880 (age ~47) Sarah F., married to ____ Thomas as of 1876 Benjamin L., died 1861, age 23 and unmarried, reported by his father John D., married Lucy _____, died between 1870 and 1876 Martha R. J., single as of 1876 (age ~30) James W., died 1867, age 20 but no marital status returned, reported by his father Barring errors in the records (a big IF, as always, of course), it may be possible that Anna is the widowed and childless bride of James W. In summary then, we have at least four possibilities for "Anna" - 1) Anna does not exist; 2) Martha calls herself Anna; 3) Anna is the widow of James W.; 4) Anna is some other person as yet unknown to us. Oh well, lot's of discussion, no definitive answers. I guess that's what makes genealogy a blood sport. :-) -Lyn On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:36:12 -0400 Charles Neal <[email protected]> writes: > Thank you, Lyn & thanks to your mother for the transcription. > > I am curious re "In the 1870 census an Anna Stanley is present in > Benjamin's household. For whatever reason, she does not appear in > this > will, unless perhaps it is another name used by Martha or Sarah." > and I'm > not where I can get to any records of that household in the 1870 > census. > Can you refresh our memories -- were Martha &/or Sarah listed? > > Thanks again. > Barbara ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Maynard, thanks for sharing the Prince William find. Again it illustrates that not all the stones are yet turned! Best regards, Lyn P. Baird [email protected] ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

July 13, 2001 Virginia records thought lost in Civil War show up on eBay News-Journal wire services MANASSAS, Va. -- When Union troops raided the Prince William County courthouse in 1863, they stole batches of court papers from the Revolutionary War era, including some signed by the father of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee. The vital records -- oaths of soldiers, certificates of birth and death and deeds of property and business ownership -- tore a hole in the county's history and were considered lost forever. But many of the papers were recovered after a researcher for the state archives spotted pages for sale on eBay, the Internet auction house. The Library of Virginia in Richmond contacted the dealer, Charles Barger, of Mansfield, Ohio, and paid him $8,000 for a 200-page record book covering 1778 to 1784. When researchers received the book late last year, 46 pages were missing. Prince William County police tracked down one more page from the same dealer in April. "It's just a wealth of historical information," said Don Wilson, chief historic librarian for Prince William. "Without this kind of a record, we're at a loss to fill in the details of local history." Like other Southern states, Virginia's local governments lost many records to fire or theft during the Civil War. In the last couple of years, eBay has been added to the more traditional auction catalogs where workers in the state archivist's office routinely search for missing records and other historical documents. "We're constantly on the lookout. Virginia has lost so much public records, especially because of what happened during the Civil War," said Conley Edwards, the state archivist. About a dozen Virginia counties lost records in the war, most of them in the Tidewater region, Edwards said. Some local records were sent to Richmond for safekeeping during the war but were destroyed when the Confederate's capital city burned as the war ended, he said. The recovered book is a record of court minutes kept in the courthouse at Brentsville, the Prince William County seat from 1822 to 1890. Listing lawsuits, land transactions, business licenses and militia oaths, it is among at least dozens of deed books, surveyors plat books and marriage documents stolen by Union soldiers as they dismantled the courthouse in 1863 for bricks to set up camp nearby. Some pages are signed by Robert E. Lee's father, Henry "Light Horse Harry" Lee, who was a justice in the Prince William court before he became governor of Virginia. Police are still looking for the missing 45 pages, but county Police Chief Charlie T. Deane said the dealer won't be charged with a crime. Barger told police he bought the book at a local antique show. There was no answer at his home Thursday. "It's much better to work with someone than to try and strong-arm them," Edwards said Thursday. "Our fear is that in situations like this documents will go underground and we'll never see them." "The other 45 pages are out there somewhere," he said. "I hope that they're together somewhere." Copyright 2001 News-Journal Corporation

I agree, Lou. Thanks, Diana. I'll put it in the list of circumstantial but valued evidence. Steve

Oops! I just realized after sending my last that the Joshua Poythress of the subject deed could NOT be the Joshua who died in 1739, and who was -- I theorize -- the father of Ann who married John Wall, Jr. The Joshua of this deed, then, must be Ann's older brother. It still loosely ties the families together, though. Lou -----Original Message----- From: Lou Poole [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:50 PM To: '[email protected]' Subject: RE: Brunswick Co.1750 Transaction: Joshua Poythress Way to go, Diana! This is particularly important to Steve Wall, his father, and I. It certainly does not prove that John Wall married Joshua's daughter as we theorize, but it does prove that Joshua Poythress was in Brunswick County (which heretofore I had no proof of), and that John Wall, Jr., was at least acquainted with him. A small but significant find to me.... Lou -----Original Message----- From: Diana Diamond [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Brunswick Co.1750 Transaction: Joshua Poythress Came across this on web. I cross-checked the archives. Matthias Davis appeared in several exchanges in 1997, but this particularly citation which links him Joshua and J. Wall is not among them. See http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/p/poythress.html to get to the archives. Matthias Davis of Brunswick County for £35-13 Shillings & 2 pence, paid by Joshua Poythress of Prince George County, on negro woman Slave named Judy and her Child also one Negro boy named Dick, dated 27 September 1750. Signed Matts. Davis. Wit: J. Wall, Jr., John Taylor Duke. Court 26 December 1750, Deed proved by the oaths of John Wall Junr. Deed Book 4, Page 203. See source page www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/deeds/brundb4.htm Also see other names http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/deeds/ Diana ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ==== The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data Cooperative. If you'd like to become a supporter of Rootsweb please visit http://www.rootsweb.com/

Way to go, Diana! This is particularly important to Steve Wall, his father, and I. It certainly does not prove that John Wall married Joshua's daughter as we theorize, but it does prove that Joshua Poythress was in Brunswick County (which heretofore I had no proof of), and that John Wall, Jr., was at least acquainted with him. A small but significant find to me.... Lou -----Original Message----- From: Diana Diamond [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Brunswick Co.1750 Transaction: Joshua Poythress Came across this on web. I cross-checked the archives. Matthias Davis appeared in several exchanges in 1997, but this particularly citation which links him Joshua and J. Wall is not among them. See http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/p/poythress.html to get to the archives. Matthias Davis of Brunswick County for £35-13 Shillings & 2 pence, paid by Joshua Poythress of Prince George County, on negro woman Slave named Judy and her Child also one Negro boy named Dick, dated 27 September 1750. Signed Matts. Davis. Wit: J. Wall, Jr., John Taylor Duke. Court 26 December 1750, Deed proved by the oaths of John Wall Junr. Deed Book 4, Page 203. See source page www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/deeds/brundb4.htm Also see other names http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/deeds/ Diana ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ==== The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data Cooperative. If you'd like to become a supporter of Rootsweb please visit http://www.rootsweb.com/

Came across this on web. I cross-checked the archives. Matthias Davis appeared in several exchanges in 1997, but this particularly citation which links him Joshua and J. Wall is not among them. See http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/p/poythress.html to get to the archives. Matthias Davis of Brunswick County for £35-13 Shillings & 2 pence, paid by Joshua Poythress of Prince George County, on negro woman Slave named Judy and her Child also one Negro boy named Dick, dated 27 September 1750. Signed Matts. Davis. Wit: J. Wall, Jr., John Taylor Duke. Court 26 December 1750, Deed proved by the oaths of John Wall Junr. Deed Book 4, Page 203. See source page www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/deeds/brundb4.htm Also see other names http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/deeds/ Diana

There is an Associated Press news story today on Melungeons. I was unable to capture it on either my local paper's page or the Associated Press page in order to forward it to the list. The gist of it is a report that researchers are now using DNA sampling with some initial success in unraveling some of the Melungeon mysteries. One "report" that is cited is that Sir Francis Drake dropped about 1500 Turkish and Mediterranean captives on Roanoke Island in 1500's. First I've heard of that one but if true its likely a positive lead. Reporter does a fair job giving him the slack that he is paid to sell newspapers not deal in objectivity. Perhaps the story may be in the AP archives in a few days. Maynard

Hello Everyone! Awhile back, I think it was Diana, listed some websites for newspapers that were coming online. Was I incorrectly remembering this or is this correct? If correct, would you please be so kind as to send me the list again, as I'd like to check them out this time. Thank you so much! Debbie Poythress _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From our gracious mystery benefactor. No doubt the two Williams are the same guy listed for different purposes. "Francis" seems to be a "stand-alone". Revolutionary War Records VIRGINIA Section II (4), [Document No. 30--List No. I] Poythress, William   Capt. Lieut.   Cont'l.   4000   Nov. 8, 1783   3 years Revolutionary War Records VIRGINIA SECTION III 4256   Poythress, Francis (Mary Randolph, Representative)   Sgt.   War Revolutionary War Records VIRGINIA SECTION III (21) Virginia Military Land Warrants 1878   Poythress, William   Capt. Lt.   3 years