Hello, I have not been viewing all of the email regarding the POYTHREFF and POYTHRESS info and while I am sure that there has been discussion regarding this already I would like to be advised of a response. In the Colonial era a caligraphied S was often written looking like an F (but with more of a 'flair' that I cannot produce with my current email font at the moment,) which would, obviously, account for this error. Has this previously been covered? Sincerely, Bellinda Myrick - Barnett

Craig.... Re Poythreff.....I disagree but let it go, I said it wasn't a federal case. On the second point, we agree 100%.....and that's what I thought I was saying....maybe not too well it seems. Maynard

I think that there are two different issues here. First, to transcribe Poythreff as Poythress is not a transcription error. To not do so is to demonstrate that you do not understand the colonial hand. I have similiar problems with people who transcribe Ye as Ye instead of The, which it really is. The Y is not actually a Y but a T character that my email program can not reproduce. I believe it is called a "thorn". Second, I disagree that a variation in the surname should be converted to the politically correct surname. Variations should be kept as they are. One never knows when a side of the family decides that it should be this way. There are just too many similiar surnames that have no connection. In our own discussions we have eliminated some variations as not belonging to us, although for the life of me I can't remember what they are. I do know that they begin with the letter 'P.' <G> Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:41 PM Subject: A Modest Proposal > I saw my first example the other day of someone RE-PUBLISHING "Poythreff" > from a PREVIOUS TRANSCRIPTION of an early Poythress document. > > I suppose it hadn't even ocurred to me until now, but to re-copy a > transcription citing "Poythreff" or "Poythrefs" is actually to put a > handwriting interpretation ERROR back into the stream. In these instances > the "re-re-publisher", almost by definition, is simply compounding an albeit > innocent error of transcriber # 1. > > The proposal is that we simply correct the "Poythreff/Poythrefs" errors as we > transfer a RE-transcription to our own page, knowing that it was simply a > previous transcriber's error in the first place. > > To me, this is completely distinct from actual variants; i. e. Poytress, > Portriss, etc. appearing in either original documents OR transcriptions. > These can (should) be cited as written and be "sic'ed" or qualified or even > transcribed literally as the author deems appropriate because this is very > likely a variant spelling and probably true to the original document whether > the clerk got it right or wrong. > > None of this addresses the issue of phonetic/misspellings by court > clerks,etc. which is an issue we have learned to live with and is likely the > source of some variants to begin with. > > I don't make this to be a federal case, just a consideration. The object is > to avoid the almost universal stigmatizing of "Poythreff" documents as "there > goes a genealogist unaware of period handwriting conventions." > > Maynard > > > > > ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ==== > Poythress Geneaology Research Web > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~poythress/ > >

Al: Oooo-Ahhhh, what a nice lick....to put the search engine and the archives and threads right on the page hit-self. I suppose I would have thought of that probably sometime in the next million years. Maynard

I saw my first example the other day of someone RE-PUBLISHING "Poythreff" from a PREVIOUS TRANSCRIPTION of an early Poythress document. I suppose it hadn't even ocurred to me until now, but to re-copy a transcription citing "Poythreff" or "Poythrefs" is actually to put a handwriting interpretation ERROR back into the stream. In these instances the "re-re-publisher", almost by definition, is simply compounding an albeit innocent error of transcriber # 1. The proposal is that we simply correct the "Poythreff/Poythrefs" errors as we transfer a RE-transcription to our own page, knowing that it was simply a previous transcriber's error in the first place. To me, this is completely distinct from actual variants; i. e. Poytress, Portriss, etc. appearing in either original documents OR transcriptions. These can (should) be cited as written and be "sic'ed" or qualified or even transcribed literally as the author deems appropriate because this is very likely a variant spelling and probably true to the original document whether the clerk got it right or wrong. None of this addresses the issue of phonetic/misspellings by court clerks,etc. which is an issue we have learned to live with and is likely the source of some variants to begin with. I don't make this to be a federal case, just a consideration. The object is to avoid the almost universal stigmatizing of "Poythreff" documents as "there goes a genealogist unaware of period handwriting conventions." Maynard

Poythress List, We've added a new direct link to the Poythress mailing list archives. Its possible to browse the messages and message threads month by month or search the records year by year. This isn't new for Rootsweb list -- just easier to find and use in relation to the other information resources at the Poythress website. The link can be found in the Document Index frame on a link names Message Archives at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~poythress/ Best, Al Tims

--part1_93.f62a771.28bd0d35_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_93.f62a771.28bd0d35_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (rly-xa04.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.73]) by air-xa01.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINXA11-0828093144; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:31:44 -0400 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.123]) by rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXA46-0828093124; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:31:24 -0400 Received: (from [email protected]) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f7SDUf325049; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:30:41 -0600 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:30:41 -0600 X-Original-Sender: [email protected] Tue Aug 28 07:30:40 2001 Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:30:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Sandy <[email protected]> Old-To: NCVance list <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [NCVANCE] Cemetery laws Resent-Message-ID: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Resent-From: [email protected] X-Mailing-List: <[email protected]> archive/latest/54 X-Loop: [email protected] Precedence: list Resent-Sender: [email protected] X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Listers, The following websites provide state laws concerning cemeteries. You may want to bookmark them. They are excellent resources. North Carolina: http://www.arch.dcr.state.nc.us/cemetery.htm South Carolina: http://www.lpitr.state.sc.us/code/t27c043.htm -Sandy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ==== NCVANCE Mailing List ==== Vance County History & Genealogy: http://lightning.prohosting.com/~ncvance/ --part1_93.f62a771.28bd0d35_boundary--

Lisa, Yes, I have the Peter Poythress reference Diana Diamond asked about and have reviewed all of the variant spellings of Poythress found in the Colonial Records Project surveys. As it turns out I just today received a microfilm from the Library of Virginia with several of the documents related to the Evans case. I'm amazed that these documents were in such good shape when they were filmed (1957). Once I've reviewed the current set of letters I'll move along to the second set of documents that detail the specific ships and ship masters involved in the case against Francis Poythress. As for Peter Poythress, this loyalist claim mentions him as a partner of a loyalist who claims that Poythress and their other partner seized his property when he hightailed it back to England. I'd like to get the full record of all these early documents. The LVA did not get reproduction rights when they surveyed these documents in England, so we'd have to get a copyright release before I could publish the image documents to the web. I'm prepared to do this when the time comes. I will scan the 1638 documents and share them with anyone wishing to help with the transcription. As many of you know, reading script from this period is something of an art :-). We have several good documents on the website related to the Wynne connections. I remain of the opinion that a deeper study of the Wynne and Woodlief ties may yield further insight into the origins of Francis Poythress. Finally, we now have PDF versions of the Robert Bolling Batte charts up on the web (in the studies and charts section) courtesy of Diana Diamond. These files are fairly large but when downloaded will provide high quality reproductions. Chart A will need to be printed in landscape mode on legal size paper. Best, Al Tims > > Nice find, Diana. And there were a couple more hiding under variant > > spellings that turned up when I hit the scroll button by mistake: > > > > Poyethres, Francis # SR 00631 - which is the Poythres-Evans suit as > > Lawrence Evans is listed two lines up as the other party in the suit. Al, > > is this the one you already have so I don't have to add it to my check list? > > > > Poythres, Francis Capt. # SR 03718 - Probate for the will of Robert Wynne. > > This is obviously Francis Jr. as Robert Wynne married widow Mary Poythres. > > > > > While these lists of principles in suits and court "cases" appear to be > unrelated and "only" alphabetical, in reality the names are alphabetical > relative specifically to the particular "S. R." ( I assume "Search Result"). > Therefore, the "other party or parties" involved are often only a couple of > lines away on the same page. For example in the Robert Wynne Probate case > there are 4 Wynnes on the same page with Capt. Francis Poythres, one of whom > is his mother Mary. No way someone would not already have turned up her > maiden name via this search (if it's there) but I guess we'll never know > until we check it. > > As my list of stuff to photocopy or transcribe in the LVA grows towards > "lifetime" proportions I am casting about for alternatives vs. moving to > Richmond. > > CRAIG ! .......you got a biz to run rather than herding cats. HOWEVER... > > ..surely you have in your address book a sweet little senior citizen looking > to pick up a few easy bucks, most especially a Richmond resident and a > Virginia citizen? In this particular "project" the 5 cases have a total of > 7 pages to be photocopied. Maybe an additional 4 or 5 pages tops for other > names "in the case" although typically they will be on the same pages as the > Poythress entries. > > We can make it nice and easy because we'll have the reference numbers and > names all laid out, even the microfilm reel numbers in the cases where its on > microfilm. It's easy (and economical) for us because copies made for persons > IN the library are free (up to 20 I think it said), our "contract agent" has > no out-of-state fee, plus we don't need to get the LVA to mail us those > quadruplicate "request forms" by the ream. And library personnel even make > the copies for said agent in the case of original documents plus the library > has a photocoping machine for microfilm in those instances. Call this one an > hour or so worth of work tops, plus postage and some incidental copying fees > for the stuff on microfilm reels. > > This ringing any bells for you, Craig? > > Maynard > > > > > > > > ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ==== > The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by RootsWeb. If you'd like to learn more about Rootsweb please visit http://www.rootsweb.com/ > >

In a message dated 8/26/01 11:27:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > http://eagle.vsla.edu/cgi-bin/colonial.gateway?searchtype=subject&conf=01000 > 0++++++++++++++&searcharg=Poythres%2c+Peter+--+1711%2f12%2c+SR+01476%2c+p. > > Nice find, Diana. And there were a couple more hiding under variant > spellings that turned up when I hit the scroll button by mistake: > > Poyethres, Francis # SR 00631 - which is the Poythres-Evans suit as > Lawrence Evans is listed two lines up as the other party in the suit. Al, > is this the one you already have so I don't have to add it to my check list? > > Poythres, Francis Capt. # SR 03718 - Probate for the will of Robert Wynne. > This is obviously Francis Jr. as Robert Wynne married widow Mary Poythres. > While these lists of principles in suits and court "cases" appear to be unrelated and "only" alphabetical, in reality the names are alphabetical relative specifically to the particular "S. R." ( I assume "Search Result"). Therefore, the "other party or parties" involved are often only a couple of lines away on the same page. For example in the Robert Wynne Probate case there are 4 Wynnes on the same page with Capt. Francis Poythres, one of whom is his mother Mary. No way someone would not already have turned up her maiden name via this search (if it's there) but I guess we'll never know until we check it. As my list of stuff to photocopy or transcribe in the LVA grows towards "lifetime" proportions I am casting about for alternatives vs. moving to Richmond. CRAIG ! .......you got a biz to run rather than herding cats. HOWEVER... ..surely you have in your address book a sweet little senior citizen looking to pick up a few easy bucks, most especially a Richmond resident and a Virginia citizen? In this particular "project" the 5 cases have a total of 7 pages to be photocopied. Maybe an additional 4 or 5 pages tops for other names "in the case" although typically they will be on the same pages as the Poythress entries. We can make it nice and easy because we'll have the reference numbers and names all laid out, even the microfilm reel numbers in the cases where its on microfilm. It's easy (and economical) for us because copies made for persons IN the library are free (up to 20 I think it said), our "contract agent" has no out-of-state fee, plus we don't need to get the LVA to mail us those quadruplicate "request forms" by the ream. And library personnel even make the copies for said agent in the case of original documents plus the library has a photocoping machine for microfilm in those instances. Call this one an hour or so worth of work tops, plus postage and some incidental copying fees for the stuff on microfilm reels. This ringing any bells for you, Craig? Maynard

Hello, I am interested in whether anyone researching the BARNETT - ROLFE - POYTHRESS, BARNETT - MERIWETHER, and FIELDER - LEWIS - BENGE - WATTS and KING - NICHOLS family groups has any additional information on a the parents and ancestry of my husband's paternal 2nd great grandfather who was named Shadrick/Shadrack/Shadrach/Shadrac BARNETT ......born: 13 April 1826 .......died: 04 April 1896 .......buried: in Pleasant View Baptist Church ...................in Carrolton, Georgia, ...................(Carroll County, I believe) md: Ann FIELDER as in the following tree of information. Please see it below. Looking forward to hearing from anyone who might connect. Thank you. Sincerely, Bellinda Myrick - Barnett (see tree below) father: Thomas Henry "Tom/Tommy" BARNETT, Jr ....born: June, 1926 in Macon or Temple, Georgia ....mother: Emily BUTLER ........Born: Abt. 1800, ........Died: Abt. 1938 in car wreck on .................Memorial or Labor Day ....father: Thomas Henry Shedrick "Tom" BARNETT, Sr. ........Born: Abt. 1889 in Temple, Georgia .........mother: Alice Lucinda NICHOLS ..............born: 23 Sep 1860 ..............md: 25 Feb 1884 ..............mother: Martha W. KING ..................born: 28 Sep 1828 ..................died: 04 Oct 1916 ..................buried at Macedonia Baptist Church Cemetery ..................at Sand Hill, Carroll County, Georgia ..................father: Henry W. NICHOLS ....................Children of Martha W. KING and ....................Henry W. NICHOLS include: (9 children) ....................[1.] John Thomas NICHOLS ...............................(1.) John Burtus NICHOLS ....................[2.] Alice Lucinda NICHOLS .........father: James Thomas BARNETT ............Born: Jan 1862 in Temple, Georgia ............Died: 25 Aug 1893 ............mother: Ann/Martha? Ann FIELDER ................born: 02 July 1841 ................died: 01 April 1896 ................(It is possible but not sure that this is her .................ancestral information below:) .................father: Josiah FIELDER (is this her father?) .....................born: 1791 in South Carolina .....................father: James FIELDER, (Rev. War) .........................born: 1750 in South Carolina .........................died: 1813 in Georgia ..........................mother: Sallie BENGE ...............................born: 1760 ...............................died: 1830 at age 70 years ...............................mother: Elizabeth LEWIS ....................................(does her TERRELL - LEWIS family .....................................connect with the WARNER - LEWIS .....................................family in Virginia?) ....................................md: husb. # 1: John "Trader/Old Trader" BENGE ........................................md: wife # 1: Elizabeth LEWIS ........................................md: wife # 2: Wurteh WATTS ............................................(Cherokee) ............................................(mother of Cherokee "SEQUOYAH") ........................................Children of John "Trader/Old Trader" BENGE ...........................................and Wurteh WATTS include: ........................................(1.) Chief Robert "Bob" BENGE ............................................md: husb. # 2: ? FIELDER, ............................................(cousin of the above James FIELDER) ..............................father: John "Trader/Old Trader" BENGE ............................mother: Sarah "Salley" LEWIS .................................(is this her mother?) ............father: Shedrick/Shadrach BARNETT ................born: 13 April 1826 ................died: 04 April 1896 ................buried: in Pleasant View Baptist Church ............................in Carrolton, Georgia ...............(there is a Shedrick BARNETT listed in the ................1850 Census for Coweta Co., Georgia who .................lived near a John P. BARNETT with an .................almost one year old child. Coweta Co. .................was near the town Temple, Georgia which .................is where Shedrick's son, .................James Thomas BARNETT, lived later. .................Also, there was a William Ezra BARNETT, .................born: 1849 in Georgia and could be that .................the son of the mentioned John P. BARNETT .................and ths William later moved to .................Randolph?/Calhoun?/Clay?, in .................Talladegha County, Alabama. Also there is .................information regarding Shadrack P. BARNETT, .................age 44, male, born in Georgia, roll 139, page 150 .................in the 1870 Carroll County, Georgia Census, .................which is next door.to Coweta Co., GA, and also .................in this same census is an Absolum BARNETT, .................age 68, male, white, born .................in South Carolina, roll 139, page 138, this could .................be a parents for Shadrack P. BARNETT. ..................And info from 1847 Census for Coweta Co., ..................Georgia, in the home of Valentine HARLIN, 60 yrs old, ..................carpenter, born in SC, ..................and Susan HARLIN, 58, and their children probably, ..................Al HARLIN, 44 yrs, born in SC, and James P. HARLIN, ..................age 33 years, male carpenter, ..................and probable grandchild, Thomas prob. HARLIN, ..................age 6 yrs old male, was a Shadrack BARNETT, ..................age 27 years old, male, carpenter, born in ..................South Carolina, ..................Per info from Carolyn BARNETT SENOR,) ..................(Either James Thomas BARNETT or his father, ...................Shedrick/Shadrach BARNETT served in the ...................Confederate Army in the Civil War and carried mail ...................on horseback to the troops.) ..................(Some of the NICHOLS, KING and BARNETT ...................information comes from Anne ALLEN, descendant ...................above mentioned John Burtus NICHOLS.)

The Peter Poythress document which I have not retrieved lends the appearence of being a Loyalist claim and that he is in London. I have several books on Loyalist claims in the bookstore and will look them up on Monday. I had never thought to look for a Poythress there. This means that the possiblity exists that other Poythress descendants that we have yet to encounter. Unless Peter returns to the U.S. after the Revolution, which is doubtful. I don't remember any of us being descendants of this Peter. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Diamond" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 11:23 AM Subject: Peter Poythress documents > Has anyone ever retrieved these early documents? > > Diana > > LVA Documents on Peter Poythres(s) > > > http://eagle.vsla.edu/cgi-bin/colonial.gateway?searchtype=subject&conf=01000 > 0++++++++++++++&searcharg=Poythres%2c+Peter+--+1711%2f12%2c+SR+01476%2c+p. > > > ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ==== > The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by RootsWeb. If you'd like to learn more about Rootsweb please visit http://www.rootsweb.com/ > >

Not that I know of. Barbara (BPN)

Diana, I've never heard of him, but appreciate the sighting. LVA has added a lot of database info to search online since I had last been trolling there, so I appreciate this heads-up. Barbara (BPN)

P:oythess List, We have created a new index section on the web site for cemetery studies. The Screven Area study is up, both as a web page and as a PDF file for downloading with all the original page formatting. The document can be found by clicking on "Cemetery Records" on the home page of the Poythress web site. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~poythress/ Best, Al Tims ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:01 PM Subject: Cemeteries of Screven County Area > I have today sent this compilation of tombstone copies to all of the > Poythress list members who are in my e-mail address book. It was sent > directly as an attachment since the Rootsweb list-server format will not > accept attachments. I will have missed those of you who are not in my > address book. > > If you are interested in a copy of this document please just e-mail me and > I'll e-mail you one right back as an attachment. If you are not interested > in this area of southeastern Georgia or these families read no further, the > intent is for you to then just click this message off and I apologize for > having stuffed your mail box. > > A further description for those who might be interested: > > By "Screven Area" generally is meant Screven, Bulloch, Effingham, Burke, > Jenkins and even Chatham counties. The claim is not made that the list is > complete so if you have one I missed please send it to me for addition and I > will untimately send it to Al to put on the completed web-page. > > This complication of Poythress and related surnames results in part from Bud > and I fighting off man eating redbugs to record the data. Other sources are > available on county records microfilmed in the Georgia Archives. Bud and I > have snapshots of a number of these graves so if you are interested just let > me know and I'll scan you a copy if we have it. > > The list runs 19 pages but that is only because there "is so much white." > When available we tried to render the copy precisely as it appears on the > tombstone and to provide other comments that might be meaningful. That > "opens up" a lot of space. > > I was surprised to note that the list has so few individuals buried earlier > than the mid to even late 1800's. It then dawned on me that burials in > "maintained" church cemeteries with sexton records was not the custom in the > rural South until later. > Sadly, many of these cemeteries are now lost and the ones that aren't are > usually in bad condition. > > If you'd like a copy of the document just e-mail me. > > Best, > > Maynard Poythress > > > > > ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ==== > Poythress Geneaology Research Web > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~poythress/ > >

I have today sent this compilation of tombstone copies to all of the Poythress list members who are in my e-mail address book. It was sent directly as an attachment since the Rootsweb list-server format will not accept attachments. I will have missed those of you who are not in my address book. If you are interested in a copy of this document please just e-mail me and I'll e-mail you one right back as an attachment. If you are not interested in this area of southeastern Georgia or these families read no further, the intent is for you to then just click this message off and I apologize for having stuffed your mail box. A further description for those who might be interested: By "Screven Area" generally is meant Screven, Bulloch, Effingham, Burke, Jenkins and even Chatham counties. The claim is not made that the list is complete so if you have one I missed please send it to me for addition and I will untimately send it to Al to put on the completed web-page. This complication of Poythress and related surnames results in part from Bud and I fighting off man eating redbugs to record the data. Other sources are available on county records microfilmed in the Georgia Archives. Bud and I have snapshots of a number of these graves so if you are interested just let me know and I'll scan you a copy if we have it. The list runs 19 pages but that is only because there "is so much white." When available we tried to render the copy precisely as it appears on the tombstone and to provide other comments that might be meaningful. That "opens up" a lot of space. I was surprised to note that the list has so few individuals buried earlier than the mid to even late 1800's. It then dawned on me that burials in "maintained" church cemeteries with sexton records was not the custom in the rural South until later. Sadly, many of these cemeteries are now lost and the ones that aren't are usually in bad condition. If you'd like a copy of the document just e-mail me. Best, Maynard Poythress

Anything known about him? Also at LVA http://eagle.vsla.edu/cgi-bin/colonial.gateway?searchtype=subject&conf=01000 0++++++++++++++&searcharg=Portis%2c+Richard+--+merchant+--+1635%2c+SR+ Portis, Richard -- merchant -- 1635, SR 10915, p. 8. Al, the pages are looking great. Away for a few days:) Diana

Has anyone ever retrieved these early documents? Diana LVA Documents on Peter Poythres(s) http://eagle.vsla.edu/cgi-bin/colonial.gateway?searchtype=subject&conf=01000 0++++++++++++++&searcharg=Poythres%2c+Peter+--+1711%2f12%2c+SR+01476%2c+p.

Poythress List Subscribers, I'd like to begin the process of updating and expanding the Poythress research website. The place to start is with the page for 17th century Virginia records. We've approached this period by building a timeline of primary records and surveys mentioning the Poythress surname. We have not included secondary sources or compilations, since these don't contribute to the document history. I believe what we have is correct, but may not be complete. It would be most helpful if each of you would compare the records we've compiled so far with your document records. Given the scaricity of records from this period we should take special care to catalog every extant record. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~poythress/date1633.html Your help and support is greatly appreciated. Best, Al Tims

Hello, FYI - for some of you who may have tried to contact me directly There was some kind of glitching going on with my email for about a week or more and it may have had an error message that indicated that my email wasn't working correctly....not sure....anyway.....wanted to let those of you that I have been communicating with that my email is still correct as: [email protected] and I am subscribing to some of the lists again, just in case, as it appears they are not functioning for me at this time. Thanks. Sincerely, Bellinda Myrick - Barnett

Any of you who know me, know I am a devout user of www.google.com for most everything, but, Maynard, I gave your page reference [http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/columns/george/4424.asp] a shot, and while stunned at all that writing (you warned us), I tried this one, and I think it is quite nifty. http://www.webbrain.com/html/default_win.html The trick to using this one is to clear your browser of as many toolbars as you can, because the actual links are at the bottom and you can't see them unless you have lots of space. I entered "genealogy" as they suggested. (This search engine didn't work well with initial choices that are too specific.) I then for kicks tried "royalty." Then I tried "historical personages." The point here is that you expand your thinking as well as your searching. The surnames search proved to be a bust unless you are searching your brain for a specific name and wanted a list, though a phone book could accomplish the same thing. On a second try I somehow got into Scottish clans, and found the Campbells, one of my families. It is a little like the lottery. I was amazed at how many clan web sites there are. Regrettably, the Poythress name didn't show up for me as much I teased this site in that direction. But for "Virginia," it quickly produced a list of all the counties (when I chose "counties"). Very neat. I imagine it would do well for other states as well. Diana