BPW, thanks so much for your message summarizing the known & your speculation on Lewis & David Poythress being father & son. I must be slipping: I just don't recall *knowing* that their land bordered that of each other -- Is your recollection that if I go dig thru stuff & find their deeds, that there is something in the deeds themselves that indicates the other as one of the adjacent property holders? (If that is your recollection, I'll be glad to hunt thru & find the deeds & decipher the handwriting to see it for myself -- I just hesitate, due to lack of spare time, to try the deciphering if that is *not* the reason you/we know of the land bordering each other.) Or is your recollection based on something else that I should dig thru & re-examine? Also, I'd appreciate something to help remind me where to look, since I'm blanking out on this, too -- what sort of business dealings do you recall them having with one another? Thanks, BPN

In a message dated 4/22/2002 10:55:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Subj:Re: Today's Question? Constable James? > Date:4/22/2002 10:55:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time > From:<A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A> > To:<A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A> > Sent from the Internet > > > > Maynard, > I would like copies, Thank you. Ah!! entirely to many James!!!!! Well, we > > will just keep trying to connect the dots. In your message 30 June 1997, > GDAH Microfilm; it says that a John S. Maner, be appointed guardian of > person and property of John Mercer, and James P. Poythress be taken as his > security. Is John S. Maner connected to you ? > > Elaine Too many James'es? Just wait until you tangle with the Francis'es, Thomas'es and John in Virginia <g> John S. Maner, among other children, had a son named John S. Maner and a daugthter Susan R. Maner. Susan R. Maner m. Meredith Poythress, Jr. Meredith Poythress, Jr. is my g-g-grandfather. Their child John Maner Poythress is my g-grandfather, etc. Sending you all those James P. Poythress deeds, etc. as an attachment to an e-mail to you. If anyone else wants them I'd be happy to send. Best, Maynard (originally Maner) > > > >

Maynard, I would like copies, Thank you. Ah!! entirely to many James!!!!! Well, we will just keep trying to connect the dots. In your message 30 June 1997, GDAH Microfilm; it says that a John S. Maner, be appointed guardian of person and property of John Mercer, and James P. Poythress be taken as his security. Is John S. Maner connected to you ? Elaine

For clarification, the entry that Elaine was asking about was in the Meredith Poythress Sr. Event Line posted 2 Feb 1998, not the "Meredith Poythress Jr" event line message that had also been posted on the same day. The particular entry read as follows: "2 May 1822 Sheriff’s sale...courthouse in Jacksonborough, Screven County...106 acres of land levied on as the property of Meredith Poythress, Senior to satisfy sundry executions issued out of justices’s court in favor of H. M. Williamson versus Cleton Poythress and Meredith Poythress, Senior, said land adjoins land of Henry Joyce and others. Levied and returned by constable James Poythress. Signed James Brown, SSC. (Augusta Chronicle 08/05/1822, 3, 6)" This serves as a good example of why it is more helpful if we all try to put both a year and a place in all of our queries to the List. I had to track down the entry for my own satisfaction, to be sure just where we were talking about there being a Constable James Poythress -- because I knew that if it had been in Mecklenburg Co, VA (prior to Meredith's move to GA) then I might've missed some possible clue important to me re my own direct ancestor. Instead, since the question pertained to Screven County, GA in May of 1822, I now know that the "Constable James" asked about in Elaine's message could *not* have been my own direct ancestor. You see, my own ancestor, James E. Poythress, was elected Constable in March 1856 in Sumter Co, AL, where he had earlier moved from Mecklenburg Co, VA. Since I know he did not earlier live in Screven Co, GA, and since he would've been too young to serve as a Constable in May of 1822 (he was born in Aug of 1803), I am now assured that this "Constable James" just represents a coincidence of same name & same position served, by different men in different places. BPN = = = From: [email protected] Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:47:27 EDT Subject: Today's Question? Constable James? To: [email protected] Who is this Constable James Poythress, mentioned in Sheffiffs Sale, 2 May 1822, on List Message, Meredith Poythress Event Line, 2 Feb. 1998? There seems to be a James P. Poythress also, popping up alot in Screven Co., GA area, at the same time that the Meredith Poythress and Group showed up. Is he this Constable mentioned above or is he a different James? Is he connected to Meredith in some way? Elaine

Elaine, thanks so much for giving the citations of the messages you had seen in the Poythress-List Archives. It makes it much easier to figure out which Thomas M, etc, to be able to read thru them again. In re-reading both the messages, it seems that the clearest statement on the subject was the paragraph I'll quote below, which was in the message "Re: Edward Poythress etc." on 18 Feb 1999, by LPB (or Lyn Poythress Baird). The pertinent Thomas you were asking about -- Thomas M. Poythress & his wife Lucy Thomas -- are direct ancestors of Lyn's. He & his Mom have done extensive research on that family. And the marriage you mentioned in posing your question, the marriage of Richard Poythress to Rosa Benton, is one of several Poythress marriages that Sarah Royster Poythress had found in a research trip to the Courthouse in "Boydton, Mecklenburg [County], Va yesterday [Sarah's message was dated Sat, 13 Feb 1999] ...I found and copied... [from] one of the large marriage books they have at the courthouse," which Sarah listed as: ">07 Jan 1880 (Hope I have right date on this one) Richard Poythress, 24, single, Mecklenburg Co. s/o Thomas and L. Poythress to Rosa A. Benton, 21 single, Mecklenburg, Co. d/o L. and C.E. Benton. J.M. Benton" By the way, in case it isn't clear to anyone, in that record the "s/o" means "son of" and the "d/o" means "daughter of" and the name added at the end of the record is the name of the minister, from the context of the first marriage Sarah had listed in her message. Thus I reckon the others of us just took it as "Yes, this Richard who married Rosa Benton is the son of Thomas M. Poythress & his wife Lucy Thomas" when LPB said in that 18 Feb 1999 message that you found: " -This Richard Poythress is also the son of my Thomas M. Poythress. This is shown by the marriage record and also by deeds around the settlement of the TMP estate. We think he might be the child identified as Peter in the 1870 census. Some of his descendants still live in the area." BPN

Elaine, I think this fellow should not be confused with Sheriff Thomas James P. of Burke Co. who dies 1800. This James (more correctly James P. Poythress) is a man I have chased all over the map, You correctly observe that he pops up all over the place. He comes along, roughly a contemporary of Meredith Poythress, Jr. and the first time we see him all over the books he is buying property in Screven 1811-15 and then selling property in Screven County, about 1820-27. Later we learn he is selling Screven property preparatory to a move to Gadsden County, FL where he patents land (1828) and fathers at least one son John by a Mary Dolan. We do know from two of the Screven deeds that James P. Poythress had a wife named "Mary" in Georgia and presumably she goes to FL with him. After arriving in FL James P. Poythress sells 250 acres of land in Screven to William T. Poythress for $5. This would be considered a "nominal" transaction and would suggest kinship. The problem is we don't know who William T. Poythress is either. Son John for some reason goes to LA to enlist in CSA service, returns to FL after the war. It's driving the Dolans more crazy than we because he is a key to the Dolan line. Our line of inquiry is to simply find out who he is.....and I have not gotten to first base and don't know enough to know if he is a "key" or not. I have not been remotely sucessful in hooking JPP to Meredith Poythress Sr. or Jr. It is not at all likely for him to be in same family group of Sr., even less likely to be in family group with Jr. I hope someone may produce James P. Poythress' connection one day. I have all these deeds on my hard drive and will be happy to e-mail them to you if you would like to have them. Maynard

Who is this Constable James Poythress, mentioned in Sheffiffs Sale, 2 May 1822, on List Message, Meredith Poythress Event Line, 2 Feb. 1998? There seems to be a James P. Poythress also, popping up alot in Screven Co., GA area, at the same time that the Meredith Poythress and Group showed up. Is he this Constable mentioned above or is he a different James? Is he connected to Meredith in some way? Elaine

I found the reference to Richard being son of Thomas M. Poythress that I was referring to yesterday. Check List Message: Re: Edward Poythress etc. 18 Feb 1999, and RE: Tanner-Poythress & Mills-Poythress 17 Aug 1998. I have not seen Richard mentioned on any of the other List messages and was unclear as to if , You Pros, had added Richard as son of Thomas M. Poythress and Lucy Poythress ,as proven fact, to your data. Elaine

The question has been posed as to the relationship between Lewis and David. There is not any conclusive evidence that it is a father and son relationship. In my study of these two I found that their land bordered each other and that they had business dealings. The only two sons mentioned by Lewis are Thomas M. and Lewis Y. in 1845. David was a witness for Lewis when he gave his consent for the marriage of his daughter Rebecca to Benjamin Standley in 1832. So my speculation has been that David is a good candidate to be the son of Lewis and the brother of Rebecca. Barbara (BPW)

Below is my (BPN) response to part of an off-List message from Elaine, in which she mentioned a desire to help get documents: >Message text written by INTERNET:[email protected] I got the copies of the Letter of Administration today. Thank you so much. I got goose bumps. How exciting. Did you get this way when you first started researching? I would be happy to pay for a document that is needed for our research. I saw where it was $20 plus .50 cents per page. All of you have done so much for us beginners, I would like to return the favor, for all the time and energy, you pros have put into this. Think about it, and let me know what is needed and how to get it. I would like for myself, copies of - Marriage Certificate of David Poythress and Mary Speed Dortch (if one exists) , - Letter of Administration George Poythress got for his father Thomas' estate (If one exists) - Marriage Certificate of Lewis and Rebecca Taylor, (if one exists) - Administration of the Estate of Lewis, (if one exists). Do you know how I can find out if these records are available? I have tried some of the Websites and I am clueless. As you can tell, I am really inexperienced. Well, have a GREAT weekend!!!!!! Elaine = = = BPN response to last paragraph above: I don't know whether there exists any Letters of Administration for the estate of Thomas Poythress, applied for by George Poythress or by anyone else. Perhaps some other List-member knows whether any such item exists? I also don't know whether there exist any documents re Administration for the estate of Lewis Poythress. Seems to me that I have looked for any indication that such documents might exist, but have not found any such indication. Perhaps some other List-member (Lyn?) knows whether any such item exists? I know that no actual "Marriage Certificate" (as we currently think of it) exists for the marriages of David Poythress or Lewis Poythress. What they had back then were Marriage Bonds, copies of which are available for these 2 marriages. These Bonds have been examined & listed in numerous books of Marriages of Mecklenburg County, VA, too. They basically indicate that a marriage between a named man & a named woman was planned to take place in a certain county, and were signed by the man & a bondsman for him (frequently a relative). Some Marriage Bonds also indicate a "return" was filed by some minister vouching that the marriage was performed. If the woman was under legal age, there could also be an associated permission signed by her parent(s). (For a more thorough explanation of what Marriage Bonds are, see a discussion about them such as in the book by Val Greenwood, "The Researcher's Guide to American Genealogy" or some other helpful discussion going into detail about Marriage Bonds, in RootsWeb's or Cyndi's List's online sources of learning about genealogy, or possibly in the National Genealogical Society's online course.) The Marriage Bond of Lewis Poythress & Rebecca B. Taylor was dated 9 April 1802. The bond (handwritten on a plain piece of paper, not on a form) bears signatures of both Lewis Poythress and Thomas Watson, signed in the presence of witness John Dortch. For the marriage of David Poythress & Mary Speed Dortch, a Marriage Consent (handwritten on a plain piece of paper, not on a form) was signed by her mother, Ann Dortch, dated 16 Dec 1827, and witnessed by Isaac Taylor and Eliz. C. Dortch. The Marriage Bond, bearing marks of David Poytress and Isaac Taylor as bondsman, was dated 17 Dec 1827 (it is also handwritten on a plain piece of paper, not on a form). The Bonds & the Consent for these 2 above marriages are both filed in "Mecklenburg County, Virginia's Marriage Bonds and Consent Papers 1770-1810, [for surnames beginning] N-S" which material is at the Library of Virginia (LVA) & which has been microfilmed. I feel sure the scanned images of these are available from one or more of our List-members, or even possibly at the LVA website. BPN

That is like my uncle's stone from VetAdmin being wrong...and the James Speed one. That one we found out from one of the cousins was because the stone listed him as a Union veteran, not a Confederate and my gfather had it sent back. Took Judy Scruggs and brothers to rectify it 2 yrs ago...nearly a century later. Hope it doesnt take that long. Patti ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Neal" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 PM Subject: Mother of David Poythress Dilemma > Elaine - > > Ah, yes - you are discovering first-hand some of the knotty problems that > keep all of us from blithely "finishing" our family's genealogy <g> > > I, too, tend toward Rebecca Taylor as being his mother due to the Edward > Giles will that doesn't mention him, but I also try to stay open to him > having been born in 1800. BPW, refresh my memory again, please, as to > exactly how we know for sure from your side of the family that David's > father was Lewis? > > My vantage point in trying to determine the birth year for David is > complicated somewhat by the fact that my own g-g-grandfather, James E. > Poythress was born in Mecklenburg Co, VA on 13 Aug 1803. (In my family's > record, which was apparently begun at the time of his marriage to > Catherine S. Preston in Feb 1828, James' own birthdate & place are listed, > but the identities of his father & mother are not listed.) > > Thus *if* James E Poythress was child of Lewis Poythress & Rebecca B. > Taylor who married in Apr 1802, and assuming David is a son of Lewis, then > David was either born by the earlier wife Patsey Giles, or David was born > after 1803... > > Maybe the person who chiselled David's gravemarker made a "typo" and put > 1800 when it should've been 1806 (the census' calculated birthdate) and the > family never fixed the marker. (They made an error on my own father's > marker & I insisted that it be re-done; turns out they just turned it over > & re-chiselled the other side of the same marker with the correct date - > bet that will confuse somebody someday) But even so, to me an error left > in David's marker seems a little less plausible than him actually having > been born in 1800. > > So then I circle back around to wondering why David wasn't mentioned in the > Edw Giles will, and wondering how sure it is that Lewis was David's father > (and of course again wondering if Lewis was the father of James E > Poythress). > > Frustrating - > BPN > == = = = > > Message text written by INTERNET:[email protected] > > > Since there are varying birth years for David Poythress, (1800 Grave > Marker) and (1806 VA 1850 census) listing him as 44 yrs. old, that raises > the question as to who is his mother. Is he the youngest child of Lewis > and Patsey Giles d. before 4/9/1802 or is he the second child of Lewis and > Rebecca B. Taylor, who married Lewis 4/9/1802? I would really like your > vote on this one and your reasoning. I am leaning toward Rebecca Taylor > being his mother, because David wasn't mentioned in the Edward Giles will, > as were John and Edward Poythress. > > Elaine > < > > > ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ==== > Poythress Geneaology Research Web > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~poythress/ >

Elaine: This one has always troubled me too but since it's a adjunct line and I couldn't even fry my own fish, I never really dug into it (not to imply that if I had I'd have the answer by now). I also got stuck on that will issue and almost convinced myself that David's having not been mentioned decided the issue. HOWEVER, I ultimatly came to think that the evidence that John and Edward WERE mentioned in the will and David was not.....was something of a non-starter. After all Giles did specifically refer to them as grandsons which seems to SUGGEST to that he might well have intended to omit the father no matter whom the father might have been. And there is no evidence that I have seen that Giles might have been "mad" at either candidate and thus purposefully omitted him from the will. I did however make something out of leaving $25 to John and $100 to Edward even if it only shows Giles was not just giving token "start out in life behests to grandsons" and that he was capable for whatever reason of showing favoritism to one or the other.....so maybe he did the same for sons-in-law. I assume you have tussled with this one also.......good luck. Maynard

I saw somewhere in the Archives, I'll have to find it again, that a Richard Poythress and his wife Rosa Benton Poythress, had signed Estate of Thomas M.Poythress (died July 1891) ,Mecklenberg, VA. It was assumed that Richard was a son of Thomas M. Poythress. Thomas M. was a son of Lewis Poythress and Rebecca B. Taylor, Mecklenberg, VA. I was just wondering if anyone found out for sure that Richard was a son? Elaine

Elaine, I'm not clear on who or where or when either of these men mentioned in your below message, lived? (And if you got any responses off the List that would answer your original question, would appreciate seeing those, too.) Thanks, BPN = = = = = From: [email protected] Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:09:27 EDT Subject: Richard Poythress To: [email protected] Could someone tell me if Thomas M. Poythress also had a son named Richard Poythress who married Rosa A. Benton? Thanks, Elaine

Elaine - Ah, yes - you are discovering first-hand some of the knotty problems that keep all of us from blithely "finishing" our family's genealogy <g> I, too, tend toward Rebecca Taylor as being his mother due to the Edward Giles will that doesn't mention him, but I also try to stay open to him having been born in 1800. BPW, refresh my memory again, please, as to exactly how we know for sure from your side of the family that David's father was Lewis? My vantage point in trying to determine the birth year for David is complicated somewhat by the fact that my own g-g-grandfather, James E. Poythress was born in Mecklenburg Co, VA on 13 Aug 1803. (In my family's record, which was apparently begun at the time of his marriage to Catherine S. Preston in Feb 1828, James' own birthdate & place are listed, but the identities of his father & mother are not listed.) Thus *if* James E Poythress was child of Lewis Poythress & Rebecca B. Taylor who married in Apr 1802, and assuming David is a son of Lewis, then David was either born by the earlier wife Patsey Giles, or David was born after 1803... Maybe the person who chiselled David's gravemarker made a "typo" and put 1800 when it should've been 1806 (the census' calculated birthdate) and the family never fixed the marker. (They made an error on my own father's marker & I insisted that it be re-done; turns out they just turned it over & re-chiselled the other side of the same marker with the correct date - bet that will confuse somebody someday) But even so, to me an error left in David's marker seems a little less plausible than him actually having been born in 1800. So then I circle back around to wondering why David wasn't mentioned in the Edw Giles will, and wondering how sure it is that Lewis was David's father (and of course again wondering if Lewis was the father of James E Poythress). Frustrating - BPN == = = = Message text written by INTERNET:[email protected] > Since there are varying birth years for David Poythress, (1800 Grave Marker) and (1806 VA 1850 census) listing him as 44 yrs. old, that raises the question as to who is his mother. Is he the youngest child of Lewis and Patsey Giles d. before 4/9/1802 or is he the second child of Lewis and Rebecca B. Taylor, who married Lewis 4/9/1802? I would really like your vote on this one and your reasoning. I am leaning toward Rebecca Taylor being his mother, because David wasn't mentioned in the Edward Giles will, as were John and Edward Poythress. Elaine <

When I visited the cemetery in 1992 I did a chalk impression of David's headstone and read it as 1800. So it does bring into question which date is correct, this or the census records. I lean towards Rebecca Taylor too for the same reason you do. BPW

Since there are varying birth years for David Poythress, (1800 Grave Marker) and (1806 VA 1850 census) listing him as 44 yrs. old, that raises the question as to who is his mother. Is he the youngest child of Lewis and Patsey Giles d. before 4/9/1802 or is he the second child of Lewis and Rebecca B. Taylor, who married Lewis 4/9/1802? I would really like your vote on this one and your reasoning. I am leaning toward Rebecca Taylor being his mother, because David wasn't mentioned in the Edward Giles will, as were John and Edward Poythress. Elaine

-----Original Message----- From: First Families [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 4:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [KENTUCKIANA-L] Children Sent to America Before The Mayflower! Hello Everyone: We have posted a list of early VA immigrants that should be of help to those of you who may be having problems with establishing your early lines there. This concerns the Children Ordered Sent to Virginia 1618-1642 and contains a listing of 468 children, including 337 before the Mayflower landed in 1620! This would represent many thousands of lines! You will find the list located on the web site at; http://www.linkline.com/personal/xymox/ AOL members may have to copy and paste the URL to access the site. Once you get there you will be looking for the link Family Pages Index which you will enter. On the Family Index Page enter CHILDREN SENT TO VA 1618-1642. Enjoy Harold Oliver America's First Families

Elaine, thank you so much for the further info about your photocopies of the family pages from the Poythress-Raiford Bible. Great to hear that in July you'll be able to get new copies of all the pertinent pages (including the title page, too, this time). I also am grateful that you plan, while you are in Laurel, Mississippi, to go thru the old papers and things that belonged to your grandfather Carl Hutton Poythress, to see if you can find additional info of interest. Even finding any items that are about more distant then-current relatives who didn't bear the name of "Poythress" can turn out to give us good links to other Poythress lines (children of Poythress daughters in other lines). Thanks again. BPN

Go to www.atomica.com and download. Then, when you see word on screen that you wish clarified, pronounced, list of nuanced meanings, spelling, etc., just put your cursor (or I-beam) over the word, hold it down, and click on alt key. Up pops all the details. And it's free, runs quietly in the background and you don't even know its there. Only downside is you have to be on-line to use it because the program "goes to fetch" the word in question. If you are running on DSL or Cable Modem that's not a problem because technically you are "always" on line even if you aren't hooked to your ISP. Maynard