Hello List, Can someone tell me at what point the practice of using a mother's surname, or perhaps a father's forename, as a child's surname started to wane? Was this practice popular all over Wales, or in certain areas more than others? Thank you.Tomi

I'm not sure about using a mother's surname. In the vast majority of cases, if not all, this would happen when the child was illegitimate. Using the father's forename however was the Welsh custom and died out in different area in different ways. Before surnames, Welsh were identified by a patronymic name, e.g. Jevan ap Gryffydd ap Batho ap Heylin. Areas changed to using English-style surnames by the 1500s, though some nobles adopted surnames earlier. Adoption of English surnames happened at different times in different places. For example, in Oswestry, Shropshire, most people had adopted English surnames by around 1650. However, in the neighbouring parish of Llansilin, Denbighshire. I have an ancestor who used his father's forename as a surname, born in 1754. I can't tell you about customs throughout Wales, but I can tell you for Montgomeryshire. http://home.freeuk.net/montgensoc/pages/parish_map.htm For the western parishes in St Asaph, patronymics continued to c. 1700-1750 for many families, in particular the northern parishes. The other parishes to the north of St Asaph also continued patronymics for some time. However, for most other parishes in Montgomeryshire, English surnames were generally adopted c. 1650, bar Llangurig, which is also more like 1700-1750. Also, from my experience, most parishes in Denbighshire seem to be in the 1700-1750 window. But my experience there is limited. Further is should be noted that names like John ap Richard ap LLewellyn, may have become: John Richard, or John Richards; and the same person could be refered to as such. You may also see people styled: John Richard Llewellyn. I have an ancestor who was styled such near 1800, from Hirnant, Montgomeryshire. It is however very difficult to discern if a name is a patronym or surname. For example John Jones, could be John, son of John OR John Jones, could be John, son of Henry Jones Without supplementary documentation, it cannot be proved, and for this reason, genealogy can be very difficult in parts of Wales where patronymics prevailed. Particularly as there were so few names in use. Compare: Denbigh: http://forebears.co.uk/wales/denbighshire#surnames Montgomery: http://forebears.co.uk/wales/montgomeryshire#surnames Shropshire: http://forebears.co.uk/england/shropshire#surnames On 02/02/13 14:21, Tomi Larson wrote: > Hello List, Can someone tell me at what point the practice of using a mother's surname, or perhaps a father's forename, as a child's surname started to wane? > Was this practice popular all over Wales, or in certain areas more than others? > Thank you.Tomi > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Rhondda Valley does contain quite a few people carrying their mother's maiden name. My grandmother's surname RAYMOND was carried by all her children and grandchildren. My great grandmother had lived in America for many years whilst a 'teenager' [np such thing in those days] and I wonder if this is where it was picked up. Cheers, Jill -----Original Message----- From: powys-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:powys-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tomi Larson Sent: 02 February 2013 14:21 To: Powys Rootsweb Subject: [POWYS] Welsh names Hello List, Can someone tell me at what point the practice of using a mother's surname, or perhaps a father's forename, as a child's surname started to wane? Was this practice popular all over Wales, or in certain areas more than others? Thank you.Tomi =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message