Ellen Edwards <ellenonpine@shaw.ca> wrote: That is SO exciting!! Perhaps my Kenyon chieftains have such a history... ============ Dear Ellen, I hope your comment was made with tongue in cheek! If not, I would caution you, and other listers, not to get carried away by reading about any claims to have traced a pedigree back to specific individuals living in AD 380, 1150, or even 1500. I am away from home at present, and do not have access to my usual reference sources, but I very much doubt whether the work of Lewys Dwnn (described as 'Deputy Herald of Arms for Wales in the 16th century'), meets genealogical proof standards. My understanding is that Peter Bartum, cited by Lloyd Ellis in his "Ellis DNA Success Story" article, collected together, collated and organised pre-existing ancient 'pedigrees'. He also made some attempt to assess their reliability. I suggest that before studying Bartrum, anyone interested should examine the strengths and weaknesses of his works by reading (for example) "Using Peter Bartrum's 'Welsh Genealogies'" by Michael Powell Siddons reproduced as Chapter 9 in "Second Stages in Researching Welsh Ancestry" edited by John and Sheila Rowlands, published in 1999 by Federation of Family History Societies (Publications) Ltd., Birmingham (UK) - ISBN 0-8063-1619-5. I very much hope that longtime Powys List member Richard Meredith is reading this. If so, perhaps he would like to comment on the credibility or otherwise of Bartrum's "Welsh Genealogies". Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Godre'r Graig, Swansea Valley, Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2005.plus.com John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator for POWYS (& BRE/MGY/RAD) mailing lists