Lloyd Ellis <LEllis148@aol.com> wrote: I never CLAIMED "to have traced a pedigree back to specific individuals living in AD 380, 1150, or even 1500." I only noted my findings in the published pedigrees. I would refer Mr. Ball to "Heraldic Visitations of Wales and part of the Marches between 1586 and 1613" by Lewys Dwnn, and more specifically to "Lewys Dwnn and the Parsons" Vol II, pp. 248-249. The pedigrees shown on pp. 248-249 were written in 1594 FOR Mr. Dwnn by my ancestor Cadwalader ap Rhydderch the nephew of Syr John ap David, who incidentally was named as one of the "overseers" in Syr John's Will. ============== Dear Lloyd, Admittedly my note of caution was prompted by Ellen Edwards's response to your e-mail, but it was not my intention to suggest that you yourself were claiming to have traced a line of specific individuals back to AD 380 or whenever. I merely used the dates you'd quoted as typical examples. I'm sorry if my use of your dates was open to misinterpretation. Perhaps I should have said "the 4th Century AD, the 12th Century or even the 16th Century". Many thanks for details of your Welsh genealogy sources. I remain to be convinced that the genealogies (of important families) collected together by Lewys Dwnn would satisfy the genealogical proof standard (GPS). Where possible, I'd like to see the accuracy of these old Welsh genealogies tested against contemporary written records before accepting them. If the relevant contemporary records no longer exist, I think it would be unwise to treat them as much more than interesting legends. Powys Listers may recall that the GPS was discussed on the Powys List earlier this year (27 March onwards), and is explained on the website of the [US] Board for Certification of Genealogists (BCG) at: www.bcgcertification.org/resources/standard.html It is perhaps worth stressing that only a tiny minority of those of us living in the 21st Century will ever be able to prove we are descended from a family important enough to have been the subject of genealogical study in the 16th Century or earlier. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Godre'r Graig, Swansea Valley, Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2005.plus.com John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator for POWYS (& BRE, MGY, RAD) mailing lists