Hello again Mary Are you sure you've got the right family in 1861? I found this, with a nightmare of mistranscriptions, but there is no John in this family. 1861 Waterworks Road, Bishopwearmouth, Sunderland George King, head, marr, 24, Puddler Iron Works Warmington [Warminster] Wilts Ann King, wife, marr, 20, Wales Edward King, son, 1, Bruton, Gloucs [Rosley, Staffordshire] Margaret H Gorth [Margaret McGrath], Daughter in law [Mother in law], Married [Widow], 45, Ireland [France] Francis Gorth [McGrath], Brother in law, Unm, 19, Mason's labourer, Bristol Edward Gorth [McGrath], Brother in law, Unm, 24, 1837, Bricklayer, Ireland Page 29, Folio 62, Piece 3766 Nicola -----Original Message----- ... Edward's wife's name was Margaret not Mary. They had four children that I know of - John born Brecon c1829, Edward born Ireland c 1837, Ann (Johanna) born Newport, Wales c1840 , Frances, born Bristol,GLS. 1842. John, Edward and Ann's dob deduced from 1861 census; I have Francis' birth certificate. In 1861 they were all living in County Durham ENG. - They certainly moved around! ...